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You appear to have moved a bunch of archives from Talk:Sahaj marg to Talk:Sahaj Marg by Copy&paste, rathe than using the move function. Thsi loses their history, which is supposed to be retained for GFDL attribution. am delting the copies, and moving the old archives. Please use the Move function in future. DES 15:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Sahaj Marg

There's a reason the article is such a mess. I've seen it before when there's an editor who's only interested in one topic. Failure to follow core policies or to respect the input of the other editors is ultimately disruptive. I hope this editor relaxes a bit. I appreciate your involvement. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 06:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Overall it has been a pleasent experience... and a learning one, yet a good one. It is nice to be able to be firm about policy and civil- something Sethie was not so good at in the past! And there is a real feeling of progress, the article looks A LOT better then a week ago... though this is still a lot to be done. :) Sethie 06:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the article is looking much better, and your editing has helped greatly. Stability is a concern.

You wrote that .. had Sethie pretty confused, since deleting talk page entries is generally a big no-no. That isn't quite true; there are some occasions when talk page comments can or should be removed. WP:BLP violations should be removed immediately from talk pages. It's proper to remove discussions of the article subject instead of the article itself. That includes postings like: "I'm writing a paper on X. When did Y happen?" or "I think the ballot measure should pass because..." Personal attacks are sometimes refactored. OTOH, some people might revert the editing of a posting by a different editor, It's not as straighforward as it could be. All the more reason to stick to templated explanations that have been vetted.

I've noted your avoidance of the first person singular. Pronouns are powerful little words. I've been engaged in a pronoun-related strategy as well. When discussing editing I try to avoid writing "you", as in "why did you add this to the article?" Instead I try to us the third person plural. "Why are we saying this in the article?" or "are we interpreting this source correctly?" I have no proof of its success but I think it makes editing discussions less personal. (Hmm, I see I didn't follow my guideline in the previous paragraph.) ·:·Will Beback ·:· 09:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey there Will.

thanks for the clarification on deleting things from talk pages, Sethie can see that there might be certain instances in which would be helpful.

Sethie really feel as you on the "you" thing. It feels like using the word you can make things a little more confrontational.... he'll ponder it and maybe give it a whirl. Sethie 15:33, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sethie...

Read your bio...good for you...I feel the same about SRCM as you do about TM but in the case of Sahaj Marg, we now have had One group (Narayana formed the ISRC) schism, then Umesh (deceased son of Founder, Babuji) in control of one Ashram and President of SRCM (Shahjahanpur), as Chari was forming his California-based, SRCMtm (California) in 1997. They also registerd the Research SMRTI in Austin Texas and took that over also. They are now in court and documents have surfaced by the Founder that brought accusations of "murder" from the Family of the Founder, Babuji.

So I've seen many groups try and change the article and I have just been letting them "wear themselves" out and then trying to make sense of it all. You entered as one of Chari's group and Shashwat were into edit wars, and I had not yet finished the clean up from the previous "edit wars" one of which brought about the Sahaj Marg Philosophy page. So I have been laying back and "biting my tongue"...'-))

I believe in Pull and not push as per Wiki philosophy. I can state my personal opinions elsewhere and I respect and appreciate the WIKI project...I am a firm believer that NPOV information will set us free, not simply one's POV. That is where the traditional Media has failed to do because of the reliance on "advertising" and that WIKI can address so "spiritually" (as in the "cool" blue end of the spectrum (logic) as opposed to the 'red" end of emotions) .  ;-))

Thanks for all your efforts, your help and your "NPOV"..

Don--don 17:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sethie...

I hear you and I will try and go to the Sahaj Marg site more often than once a day.

I am disabled and have health issues so it is a little difficult for me but I will do my best. I have been trying to stay out so as not to confuse the issues with more than a few editors doing the amending at a time. I do not like pushing my POV on others and I am not without a POV also. ;-))

If, in the future, you want me to "stay away" more, so as not to confuse, then I will do so also...

Don --don 17:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Don-

What I am after is editors who will help keep things in line with wiki policy. If you're game for that, please come play! :) Sethie 17:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Ramesh Balsekar, Criticism

Dear Sethie,

it is stated that Balsekar was recently "subject of a smear campaign by a small Paris based group aligned with what they consider to be a more traditional Advaita guru - Ranjit Maharaj"

Is this associated in any way with the happenings at the Kovalam Seminar 2004?

If so, then you might consider to check out the reports made by shocked Germans who also participated at that seminar but took the incidents with a lot of humour of how they could build up such a perfect "Guru figure" in their own minds and project it on Balsekar, although Ramesh always states that he is like you and me, a perfectly normal human being and most of all a man.  :)

http://www.connection.de/cms/content/view/995/181/

greetings

Al

Third Person

Shashwat admits that talking in third person helps one observe things, rather then becoming a part of it, I did this long time back, whien i was in India and was with a guru in Rishikesh. Moment one becomes an observer, chances of getting attached to objects are reduced considerably.

--Shashwat pandey 09:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Well said. :) It is currenlty one of Sethie's main practices. Sethie 04:44, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Shashwat has read Sethie's observation on TM, and here shashwat want's to share his experience of meditation now 10 yrs (Shashwat started his spiritual quest at the age of 17!!). Meditation is only one of the means towards the absolute, which cannot be expressed, it is not the only means, for people in famiy life, love dedication and commitment towards family results in same state that a yogi achieve's in forest doing Raja Yoga. same power's of mind can be manifested by numerous method's and those who sell, (trademarks, organizations claiming good for householders) are all fake, only way to achieve perfection or union with existance is by becoming one with the existance, which is present right in front of us, our family spouse children and society. more we become selfish, thinking if we do something we achieve something in spiritual practice is absured for householder's. actually we have to stop doing everything, and that moment when we stop is the moment of union. !! Sahshwat runs a community on orkut, if sethie is interested he can visit .--Shashwat pandey 06:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)