Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:45, 30 May 2007

Guy Chapman? He's just zis Guy, you know? More about me

• JzG (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves • archives • privacy policy )

If you need urgent admin help please go to the incident noticeboard. To stop a vandal, try the vandal intervention page. For general help why not try the help desk? If you need me personally and it's urgent you may email me, I read all messages even if I do not reply. If next time I log on is soon enough, click this link to start a new conversation.

Terms of Service
By posting on this page you accept the JzG Terms of Service. I endeavour to satisfy good-faith requests to the best of my ability, but if you act like a dick, I will call you a dick. If you act like a troll, I will probably ignore you and may tell you to fuck off. If you want something from me, your best bet is not to demand it on pain of shopping me to ArbCom, because that way is pretty much guaranteed to piss me off to the extent that I will do whatever I can to thwart your plans. This page may contain trolling. Some of it might even be from me, but never assume trolling where a misplaced sense of humour might explain things. I can be provoked, it's not even terribly difficult. You may find, if you provoke me enough, that I will do something I later regret. Only remember, you may regret it more. I am a middle-aged surly bastard who spends his working day wrestling spammers and beating Windows with a stick, but I am capable of seeing good in the most improbable people if they don't go out of their way to make me do otherwise. Guy (Help!) 22:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

This user posts using a British sense of humour and does not repress those instantaneous motions of merriment.

Sunday is the anniversary of my sister's death. I will be available only intermittently over the next four days as I am taking my parents to inter the ashes, a journey of some hundreds of miles. Guy (Help!) 20:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry

Very sorry to hear that (and worse for your parents of course). Best wishes (I have parents and we 3 kids are alive, thriving and close), SqueakBox 20:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Best wishes to you and your family.--MONGO 20:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

From me as well. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:53, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Hang in there, Guy. --badlydrawnjeff talk 21:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Best wishes Guy.. may you be given peace of mind during this troubled time. SirFozzie 21:14, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Keep strong - all the best, Martinp23 21:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

My best wishes. Wikidan829 21:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Thinking of you at this time. I hope the journey will not be too hard on your parents, and you will find solace together. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Just keep remembering. Georgewilliamherbert 22:36, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm so sorry about your sister. --A. B. 18:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

• Hang in there, Guy. Your memories about your sister will always live on within you. --SunStar Net 10:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

• My sympathies to you, also, Guy. Having lost my own sister earlier this year, I know well the sense of displacement and, to coin a phrase, "cosmic loneliness" that follows. Regarding your comments about my surname and edit of my entry, you would lose your pound, sir, for my family has always had the truly Scottish spelling of Stuart (before it got Frenchified), and my edit was to remove a link to a personal blog, because I am about to work on a controversial project, and did not want crazies of the Star Trek variety or any other feeling that they knew me too well.

• in this wikicommunity it's easy to forget about the real life, every user name here represents. My prayer is that you and your family find strength and comfort in this most trying time. My sympathies, R. Baley 20:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Byron Calvert

I recently created an article on Byron Calvert, an American Neo Nazi leader using sources from my research. Problem is Calvert himself has become wise to it and disputes the accuracy of my sources. His followers have also taken it upon themselves to blank the article. Advice please!

Euphoria Volume 1

I noticed you deleted Both Euphoria Volume 1 and PF project. I can't see what the article looked like but for every other volume of Euphoria (Euphoria (compilations)) the pages are fine. Maybe the article sucked, but just so you know Euphoria volume 1 was hella popular, and its notability doesn't really need to be asserted other than "was the first in the series of Euphoria (compilations)". I don't really know what to say here, because don't know why exactly you deleted the articles, but there should definitely be articles under those names. If they fitted the format of the other volumes in the series and you came across them and deemed them not notable, you were wrong. I'm confused, help. Howboutpete 14:55, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

• I'm the original author of the album listing on Misplaced Pages, and I just found this morning that it's gone. Apparently it doesn't satisfy the Unremarkable People/Companies/Groups condition of WP:CSD#A7. Can someone help me understand what I did wrong, and how to make sure I can submit articles that will last? My goal is to fill out the entire discography of that series, because I own all the albums. Nmcspadden 16:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Your user page claim

I see you are blaming your bad typing on a personal injury. Wehre does that leave the rest of us? SqueakBox 21:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

• Heh! Thanks for the smile tha brought :-) Guy (Help!) 21:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Cool, me I blame the machete blow to the head I receivved 2 and a half years back that messed my vision something chronic at the time for my typos although the loss of vision isnt really much of an issue now. My Mum is a trained typist and is as bad as anyone I know for typos (she's approaching 70 and like my Dad an online enthusiast), SqueakBox 00:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Xyience

Hey, I noticed that the Xyience article has been deleted and protected. Did it not go to an AFD discussion? If it didn't, maybe it should have as it is a reasonably notable brand. Chicken Wing 05:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Harassment???

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Pilotguy&oldid=132826934

"I would like to bring to your attention the following pages: Shane Ruttle Martinez, Marxist Candidate Page, Paul Fromm, and Paul Fromm (neo-Nazi). The same users are at each page putting forth the same unsourced information that is very POV. They also edit out any sourced negative information. The users I speak of are user:Frank Pais, user:AnnieHall, user:Black as pitch, user:Paul Fromm (blocked, I believe), and the new account user:CmrdMariategui. I do not have enough information to go to the sock puppet page to warrant an investigation, and I only came onto the pages based on the BLP claims. It seems that they have a strange understanding of BLP and POV that only positive information (especially unsourced positive information) is the only thing allowed on a page, and that sources with vague connection to the line they claim to be references for are allowed to "prove" notability of the figure mentioned. It is very strange and seems to be a great problem. For information connecting the people as being sockpuppets or possibly a group that uses numbers to avoid the Three R Rule, see the histories of the pages I cited above or my user page to see where a newly created name said I was "wrong" about a page and reverted where I removed blatantly wrong sources that didn't actually match the lines which they were included on. SanchiTachi 01:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)"

I really don't know what to do here. I really don't want to be a part of this debate. I voted to endorse removal of certain claims in the Shane Ruttle Martinez article and now SanchiTachi appears to be on some sort of vendetta; just won't seem to let it go. She/he is now accusing me of potentially being a sockpuppet.

I might not be the best editor on wikipedia, but I don't think I deserve this abuse merely because of a decision I made concerning the relevence of information. Basically I'm looking for advice. I really don't want to have anything to do with SanchiTachi but I don't want her/him to continue making baseless accusations against me. God, seems so much like high school it's ridiculous. AnnieHall 07:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Little Fatty

I note from the deletion logs that you deleted the above article. I'd like to see the above article undeleted or at least a version moved into user space please. Catchpole 14:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Once the dust has settled that may well be possible, but right now it's probably not a good idea. Guy (Help!) 15:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure what you mean. Catchpole 15:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Right now there is an RfC and an ArbCom case pending, and no obvious forum for discussing this subject in isolation from the history of the problem article. I am trying to think of how that might be accomplished, but right now I can't think of a way. I am asking some arbs and other old-timers what they think. Guy (Help!) 15:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• The Little Fatty article you deleted had been moved from a userspace draft. I'm thinking we should just put it back there. I do think this deletion may need to be argued separately: my understanding was that those wanting deletion had agreed the meme was notable but the kid was not, and this article seems like an attempt to address that. But yeah, let's not do that NOW while feelings are so raw. What do you think? Mangojuice 15:33, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Yup, that is pretty much how I see it too. I'll move it back to userspace in a minute. It's still at User:DeLarge/Little Fatty. Guy (Help!) 15:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Little Fatty. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article or speedy-deleted it, you might want to participate in the deletion review. -N 16:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• I have not the words. Guy (Help!) 16:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• With all respect Nardman, that is pathetic. Ryan Postlethwaite 16:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• A bit harsh. Ill-judged, though, I think. Guy (Help!) 16:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Are Warren Allen Smith's edits really "spam"?

Hello JzG -- I have just posted this message on Talk:Warren Allen Smith. I notice that you have been deleting some of his links, so I'm drawing your attention to my comments. Maybe you're right, but I'm not so sure. I certainly found Smith's correspondence with Paul Blanshard and Brand Blanshard interesting. Respectfully -- WikiPedant 20:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

TO THE EDITORS WHO CONSIDER WARREN ALLEN SMITH'S LINKS TO BE SPAM -- I have tracked Smith's edits a bit in recent months and I'm not so sure they should be dismissed as spam. Smith is a venerable periodical editor who corresponded with many notable thinkers of the twentieth century over many decades. He has scanned some of this correspondence and established links to the images. I am a university professor and personally have found some of this material rather interesting and, arguably, historically significant. Be careful what you delete. You may be getting it wrong. Respectfully -- WikiPedant 20:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• And the link summaries make it perfectly plain that he is pursuing an agenda. Plus he should not be linking his own site. Guy (Help!) 20:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Warren Allen Smith

Any thoughts on Mr. Smith's self-created Misplaced Pages page and it's very lengthy bibliography? He also has inserted himself in quite a few aritcles using his many monikers. --David Shankbone 23:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Remove the self-references form other articles as patent vanity, and AfD the autobiography. Guy (Help!) 07:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

And now badlyplacedaxes (-:

• Image:Axegrind.jpg

Please put it directly on Commons, since you have licensed it as free content. Uncle G 02:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• Indeed, and I have now done that. I had to fix my commons account first. Guy (Help!) 15:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Nickname

Hey man, I don't know who to report this to. I don't know why, but I have a feeling this nickname isn't appropriate. Seeing the one contribution they put on the Tornado article, I don't know if they should be around. Wikidan829 15:18, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if it was deleted or what, the link I put here doesn't work, but if you look at the recent history in Tornado you'll see who it is.

(disclaimer : I work for ADVFN plc)

why delete 'ADVFN' (may 4th) as blatant advertising? article is old and other similiar articles, e.g. yahoo finance, bloomberg, etc remain

Re:Spoiler warnings

There is no such consensus. The only disruption of Misplaced Pages is being performed by the individuals who choose to remove the spoiler tags. (Ibaranoff24 15:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC))

• Read the debate again. There seems to me to be a strong groundswell of support for the idea that spoiler tags are generally redundant in plot sections, and in classic works. Guy (Help!) 15:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I read it that way too, and consequently I have been cautiously removing spoiler tags on book articles on my watchlist. So far nobody has objected. I never liked them, always thought them unencyclopedic, and I think we will be well rid of them. --Guinnog 15:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

My talk page

Regarding your edits to my talk page , please refrain from removing other users comments to me without my consent. According to WP:CANVASS: "It is sometimes acceptable to contact a limited group of editors with regard to a specific issue as long as it does not become disruptive." I highly doubt that User:Ttguy's comments would qualify as disruptive, as it was in direct relation with an action of mine, namely a request for semi-protection. Thanks. --CA387 17:46, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• And usually not. This was a case where it's not. Thanks for playing troll-the-admin, though. Guy (Help!) 17:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

RFC

I invite your comment here. You may wish to refer to this diff, or the associated talk page comment if you are interested in endorsing the RFC. Hipocrite - «Talk» 19:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

You may wish to review Merky's most recent claims that I am a member of some organized group to push my pov on 9/11 articles with Tom Harrison and MONGO. His source is Misplaced Pages Review.Hipocrite - «Talk» 10:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Possible article?

Is there any rule that forbids this from becoming a regular article/list?:

• Flora and fauna of Greenland

The title can be changed if necessary. Other encyclopedias have such galleries as a resource. Please reply on my talk page. -- Fyslee/talk 07:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

• Interesting question. Honestly? I have no idea. Why not be bold? :-) Guy (Help!) 08:49, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Which account is my sock puppet?

Which account is my sockpuppet and where is the checkuser request that justifies you blocking my IP address?

What I have done is Misplaced Pages:Canvassing. Canvassing is "overtly soliciting the opinions of other Wikipedians on their talk pages, and it is controversial"

On this page it says "a reasonable amount of communication about issues is fine. Aggressive propaganda campaigns are not. The difference lies in the disruption involved. If what is happening is getting everyone upset then it is a problem."

I don't believe I have engaged in an aggressive propaganda campaign.

It has been brought to my attention that Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet has a statement that contradicts ]. So which one is actual policy? I would have though that a page called Misplaced Pages:Canvassing would define the policy on Canvassing especially since I have not engaged in any sockpuppetry.

If you can not produce evidence of my sockpuppetry will you appologise for besmirching my reputation?

Ttguy 09:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar for JzG

		The Original Barnstar
		For all your work on Misplaced Pages:Deletion review, and stopping POV-pushers on articles e.g. Men in skirts etc. and for being a great admin! SunStar Net 10:21, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Wrongful Deletion

Hello, Please undelete the article "Dynamic Software" ... I have no idea why you deleted it. It was a company stub and the company develops Windows based software. I have been working on the cite's for the refernces I came back to work on the article and it was deleted.

Please undelete or have an explaination why you deleted my work in progress.

Al Costanzo

talk added: 5/25/07 11:20am est

• See comments att the extant deletio review. Guy (Help!) 15:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Kilt Question

Hallo...I noticed you made some edits recently on Men's skirts, and I wanted to ask you a bit of a procedural question about the subject. The article mentions Utilikilts, so I threw in a wikilink to the article which I helped turn from a stub to only-slightly-less-of-a-stub-but-still-kind-of-stubby, which is at The Utilikilts Company. Now, when I did this I noticed there's two redirects floating around out there. One is Utilikilts which I made, and pointed at The Utilikilts Company article. The other is Utilikilt (singular) and points to the main Kilts article. So, my question is where ought those redirects point? Seems to me they ought to both go to the same spot, and I'd lean towards The Utilikilts Company article, but I'm not sure.

And on a side note, was I right to linkify that mention of Utilikilts in Men's Skirts, or is that advertising? I've no connection to the Utilikilts Co., and advertising was not my intention...but looking at the page today, I realize it might be seen as such. Anyhoo...you seem quite the knowledgeable type, so I thought I'd ask you. Don't you like being high-profile? --InkSplotch 15:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

• You're asking the wrong person, as far as I'm concerned the whole POV-pushing mess can be redirected to the bitbucket. Sorry. Guy (Help!) 15:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I wasn't too concerned on the skirts article (I haven't even really read it). I was more curious about the redirects. Anyways, thanks for your time. --InkSplotch 17:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I think I've just been trolled once too often to be anything other than completely jaded about the whole subject. Hopefully you'll find someone slightly more sympathetic to the subject who can help out - maybe Uncle G, he's a good guy. Guy (Help!) 18:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Spam-whitelist Review

Hi Guy, I hope you don't mind me contacting you directly. I was just wondering if you could use some help with the whitelist review. You or another admin would obviously still have to remove any superfluous entries from the whitelist yourself but I guess I could help out with the grunt work. I understand if you'd rather do it yourself. Cheers -- Seed 2.0 19:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

• Oh yes, all assistance gratefully received. Shockingly dull work, but worthy! Guy (Help!) 20:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

  Well, it's a nice change from the disambiguation/typo fixing stuff I've been doing lately but, yeah, not terribly exciting. ;) I've tried to keep my notes sufficiently detailed but concise. Oh, and I'll be back to help with rest but I'll probably only do a few at a time since I'm a bit busy (and, technically, on a wikibreak) at the moment. Cheers Seed 2.0 00:28, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

The (don't kill me) skirts again

Hi, Guy. I understand if you never want to hear the word "skirt" again as long as you live, but I was hoping you'd care to cast an eye on my skirmish here: Amazing behavior... are those editors on the talkpage in your opinion separate people? If not, might a CheckUser + a community ban be the way to go? I'm pretty pissed off about that abusive last edit by Bardsandwarriors, as I'm no kind of a hand with the accursed cite template, and was forced to hand-knit a separate note in order to include a quotation in it, grrr. Bishonen | talk 11:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC).

• This is precisely what I expected and precisely why that page should have been drowned at birth and left salted. Kilt is notable, cross-dressing is notable, and the rest is frantic attempts by a few individuals to change the way society views their dressing habits. Misplaced Pages is not the place to fix the fact that Western society views skirt-wearing by men as an eccentricity. The AfD should have been closed as delete, the arguments for keep amounted to "we know this is not notable, not important, not neutral and inflates the importance of an utterly insignificant movement, but we like it." I have had it up to here with these people. They are abusing Misplaced Pages to try to rewrite history and reshape popular opinion. Guy (Help!) 11:58, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
  • We now have an edit war and a talkpage war. Sigh. I'm already tired of Mugaliens all over again. If somebody tells me to take it to Dispute Resolution, I'll tell them to talk to Bishzilla. Bishonen | talk 14:32, 26 May 2007 (UTC).

• Plus ça change :-( Guy (Help!) 14:34, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Randolph Foundation

I reverted your deletion of a source link that referred readers to a review/summary hosted by Amazon. From your comments on WikiEN-l on 19 Mar 07, I understand that you don't agree with this, but other editors clearly disagreed. If you feel very strongly about this one link to a commercial site out of the twenty-seven sources cited in the article footnotes we can discuss it further at the article talk page. Cheers, DickClarkMises 18:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Upon reexamining the article, I noticed that I cited two Amazon sources, not just one. My mistake on that. DickClarkMises 18:39, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you didn't notice the affiliate ID in the url... Guy (Help!) 18:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I definitely missed that. Nice catch! DickClarkMises 18:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a bore, I'm going through a great load of amazon links right now nuking them or their affiliate IDs. Guy (Help!) 18:55, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Ignore all rules

No offense, but the situation is difficult enough without adding joke edits to the mix. Please refrain from engaging in such behavior in the future. Thanks. —David Levy 20:53, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Admins don't do "vandalism". We just ignore all rules. Guy (Help!) 21:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

It's unfortunate that you insist on treating the policy as a joke. —David Levy 21:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

And it's unfortunate that you insist on treating the first, oldest and most anarchic of policies as some kind of religious tenet. Guy (Help!) 21:08, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't. I simply asked you to please refrain from performing joke edits to a policy page. —David Levy 21:18, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Do not mistake light-heartedness for joke edits. Less is more, after all. Guy (Help!) 21:21, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

You're Changes to the NO MA'AM article

Hey there. You've removed a certain paragraph from the NO MA'AM article, stating that the reference is not really a reference. I accepted what you said, put the paragraph back but without the reference. Still, you removed the paragraph again. What's wrong with it? Is it not relevant that NO MA'AM is popular among fans of Married... with Children and that T-Shirt are being sold? # Ido50 (talk to me), at 20:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

• Because it has no obvious relevance or significance. The assertion is not verifiable per WP:ATT, and in any case is just trivia of no evident importance. Guy (Help!) 21:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

need help

Guy, can you please send me a copy of the deleted article List of protest songs to my email? I need it for a school project. Thanks! I promise I will not recreate it on Misplaced Pages. Wooyi 21:11, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

• Done. Guy (Help!) 21:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Regards. Wooyi 21:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

blatent POV

Trying to get an answer (because I really don't know) regarding your comment on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jesus Christ as myth. What POV do you think is splitting off? jbolden1517 21:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

• It's a POV fork. There is only one subject. Re-integrate, then discuss what the title should be. Guy (Help!) 21:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

In light of this proposal, thank you for your services to the project.Bakaman 22:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ric Romero

You're about my favourite editor, and so I was happy to revert back the changes you made at this page, whcih have subsequenty been challenged on the talk page. If you feel so inclined, pls explain your logic for your edit. I am, of course, in agreement. Eusebeus 22:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Kohs' co-conspirator

Looks like someone else is looking to make a buck off of Misplaced Pages. See here and my response here. --Calton | Talk 00:05, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

This earlier edit to his User Page is also, shall we say, telling. --Calton | Talk 00:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Update: FYI, I escalated this to WP:AN/I. --Calton | Talk 04:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Your comments here at Meta would be welcome. --Calton | Talk 00:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Books

You might want to tell the tens, or even hundreds, of other editors who do the same thing for many, many books pages. But, ok... ~ clearthought 01:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Inactive

I will not be contributing to wikipedia anymore so you might watch the unaccredited schools and Gastrich puppeting. Arbustoo 02:12, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Dynamic Software

I am trying to correct the article you nominated for deletion. This is the very first article I ever wrote. I am trying to do this correctly. Any suggestions would be welcome. It took me a but of time to understand how to get the refs to work properly. Any help would be appreciated. I moved the article into the NS from my sandbox so I could get input but instead you want to delete it even before I write it. Could you explain to me what I have done so wrong in writing it so I can fix it?

Thanks Al

• The main problem here is that your every action increases the suspicion that you have a connection with the subject. Do you? If you do, it wold be best to be open about it and help people understand where you are coming from. I don't understand your passion for this particular piece of spam-enabling software, and your comparing the firm to Microsoft was not a good call. Guy (Help!) 08:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

List of people by name

At the ANI discussion, you said "The fact that there are over a thousand subpages rather makes the point that it is hopelessly unmaintainable". I agree, which is why I came up with the proposals to move from that system to a more maintainable one that would only require people to add a correctly pipe-sorted category to every biographical article. I was actively trying to get people to discuss this (while somehow missing the DRV) and was preparing to find a way of generating a single LoPbN list to ensure careful and methodical transfer of information from that system to the new one. I still fail to see what was so bad about my proposal that people just ignored it and said delete? My proposal would only have delayed the deletion, would have led to an orderly transition and avoided all this drama. During the MfD I pointed at the list of people's names beginning with X that existed at LoPbN. Can you, or anyone, without undeleting the old page, tell me what biographical pages we have under "X". I can use the system I've set up here to find living people under "X", here, but then compare that to the Misplaced Pages LoPbN 'X' page here (a mirror that someone at ANI was kind enough to point out). Again, I fail to see how a category-based system of accessing the "X biography list" is a bad thing, and I was proposing to carefully transfer the information from one system to the other. Why did people just ignore what I was trying to do? <sigh> I know I'm going over the top here, mainly because I'm typing away here when I should be packing. But I hope some people listen to what I am saying. Sorry to rant like this on your talk page. Carcharoth 16:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Those episode articles

Not that I'm complaining, but why did you revert them? Do you have plans to revert the rest of them or was it because of the "edit warring" going on in those specific ones? TTN 19:15, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• Edit warring, that's all. RfC is the way to go I think, or maybe mediation. Mind you, fans won't usually settle for anything less than a full size article on every single episode. Guy (Help!) 19:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Sadly, this guy isn't even a fan. He just wants all episodes of all series to have articles for some reason. I guess I'll have to go for mediation eventually, even though the guideline is clear in what needs to happen to the episodes. (RfC's always seem to take too long to be useful). TTN 19:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• There seem to be two problem editors: Matthew and the ex-Nintendo guy. I blocked the ex-Nintendo guy for 48 hours to give everyone else a rest, he looks like an obsessive. Guy (Help!) 20:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• Well, they're arguing on two different fronts, but they are both in disputes with me. Matthew wants episode articles, while Nintendo is quite obsessed with having those character articles ("they're culturally important to the world"). TTN 20:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Anne Frank

If she had died recently, and the only thing really known about her was she was a Nazi victim, and her diary had been published post-humously, you'd delete the article. Am I right? -N 21:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• I have no idea, because that's not what happened. Most likely I'd redirect to an article on the diary, if it was garnering significant critical interest, but it's impossible to say because that was over half a century ago and these days it would be a blog not a diary, you simply cannot compare such vastly different cases. Who knows, if those kids write a book that's still selling after half a century they may end up with an article as long as Anne Frank's. Guy (Help!) 21:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Well that, and there's been tremendous scholarly research on her life and play and movie adaptations. I'm just want you to know that although you stated that my examples had no basis in reality, I wasn't just being a jerk. I was trying to make you understand the other side of the argument. -N 21:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• I know the other side of the argument, but choosing hyperbolic examples doesn't help anyone, I'm afraid. I think my later comment says where I stand on this. Guy (Help!) 21:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• As the admin who speedied these articles in the first place, I plan to respond to the serious arguments presented on the other side of the ledger, including yours, N. The whole process would be a lot easier on both sides without the inflated rhetoric, though, and that goes for both sides too. JzG, thanks for the support. Regards, Newyorkbrad 21:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Right to Edit

Hello, I started an essay that has the same name with a previously deleted one (but the contents are opposite), can you restore history please? Thanks! Wooyi 22:34, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, but that is far too close to poking Merkey with a pointy stick, there is no way we need that right now. Guy (Help!) 22:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

But my essay and the one before are opposite, and I spent time on this. Who is Merkey? Wooyi 22:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, please just drop it, trust me on this: we don't need this particular dispute escalated or perpetuated. Maybe later. Much later. Guy (Help!) 22:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

But can I just ask who is Jeffery and who is Merkey, and where is a "crusade"? Wooyi 22:41, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• User:Jeffrey Vernon Merkey. Guy (Help!) 22:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, haha, I'm pretty sure he is that computer guy, right? Wooyi 22:49, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• Yup. He is also an authority on some things we could do with help on, and notoriously vulnerable to trolling. And perhaps also vulnerable to interpret as trolling things which aren't necessarily actually trolling. So please just let it go. Thanks. Guy (Help!) 22:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course, when did I say I will not let it go? I also want a controversy to subside. Wooyi 22:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I spy a troll

-N 22:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• Good catch, thanks. Guy (Help!) 22:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Tilting @ windmills?

Hello ... I stumbled across the first of these the other day on WP:NPP as a stub that I was about to tag for WP:CSD#A7:

• Stitch 'n Bitch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Debbie Stoller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Bust (magazine) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Please see that talk pages and histories ... the first one has been deleted and restored once already, and digging some more led to the other two.

As you know, I've got a "thang" about WP:A, especially when I see absolutely no WP:RS whatsoever, just ELs to the subject's website, but before I waste any more time with this, I figured I'd better get the opinion of an admin ... I'm currently up to my cojones in the feces arising from Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Paul Ulrich (which is a "kill it before it grows" situation), but these are legacy articles, created before we became quite so anal retentive about WP:Verifiability, i.e., requiring multiple WP:RS secondary sources.

I mean, I can hear the arguments already:

1. Bust (magazine) has been published since 1993, so it is notable, regardless of lacking reliable secondary sources
2. Debbie Stoller is the publisher of notable magazine, so she is also notable, regardless of lacking reliable secondary sources
3. "Stitch 'n Bitch" has been the subject of multiple books by a notable author, so it is also notable, regardless of lacking reliable secondary sources

So, should I simply try to forget that I ever saw these articles and just MOVE ON? Thnx! —68.239.79.82 00:01, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Query on BLP

Okay, so my opinions at DRV seem to have me walking into a way larger dispute that I was originally aware of existing. I hope and expect that by the end of this (whenever the end comes), the community will have either some sort of functional compromise or at least clearer delineation as to what is acceptable or not. Otherwise, we're going to see a lot more good-faith disputes over living people in general and I fear quite a few nonliving ones.

In the meantime, in my efforts to determine where the currently involved editors and admins are currently drawing the line, do you feel that this article, as it stands now (and decided opposed to how it stood then) is acceptable in regard to BLP? I have tried to be cautious in source selection in order to avoid salacious, prurient, or "tabloid" details, and to ensure that the case and the subject were placed in an appropriate context.

I know that I have a different stance on these articles than has generally been voiced, feeling that we in fact meet our moral responsibility best by combatting other permanent online sources with factual, referenced, neutral, and mature articles. I am interested in hearing your opinion, to feel for where lines can and should be appropriately drawn.

Thanks for the input! Serpent's Choice 03:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Asking for advice

I certainly do not want to troll Jeff Merkey. Please take note that I refrained into any comments or edits before the RfC (I believe that any community member has the right to voice his opinion if requested). My question is simple: if I see an obvious Merkey sockputppet, can I leave you a note about this (with the edits and/or other evidence)? I will try not to look for the socks actively, but Merkey is so easy to spot on some articles that I meet yet meet him. I do not wish to interact with Merkey in any other way. In fact, reporting his sockpuppets was my only interaction with him after my first (disastrous) interaction with him 14 months ago when I was a WP newbie. And I almost forgot his existence by the time Jimbo asked me to archive the list of his old sockpuppets. If you wish to answer, please do it here. -Friendly Neighbour 11:27, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Bear in mind before reading the following that I deal extraordinarily badly with trolls and do not follow my own advice.

The best way to deal with volatile individuals is probably to start by trying calm discourse on the talk page, and then to call the cavalry (nicely) if that fails. Thus: "I am having a problem on article X with editor Y, more eyes would be appreciated." If the individual concerned tends to personalise disputes, then keep it strictly to content and suggest mediation or article RfC, or ask at the relevant Wikiproject. Use a dispute tag rather than edit-warring, and justify the dispute tag on Talk. It might work, it might not, let's see. Guy (Help!) 11:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

You've misunderstood. I am talking about sockpuppets of a blocked user. I have no wish to go into any revert wars (with a blocked or unblocked Merkey). In fact, I do not wish to go into any discussions with him, not to accused to be another "SCoX troll" (such accusations against people who disagree with him sadly happen too often, most of them by M. himself but not all). I would simply back off if he started to edit an article I watch. This leaves me the final option: tipping off an admin about the sockpuppet (or the whole community). Hence my question: can I start from you? -Friendly Neighbour 11:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Email

Hi Guy. Sorry to bother you, just a minor query. I was wondering if you'd received my email? I'm not hassling for an urgent response, it's just that I've sent a couple of emails through the Email User function over the last day or so and not had replies to any of them, so I'm beginning to wonder whether they're getting through or whether I've just emailed a lot of busy people! A yes/no answer will suffice. Cheers, --YFB ¿ 18:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

• Not received. Guy (Help!) 22:41, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Hmm. I've sent it again, direct to your email (via chapmancentral) instead of using the Email User button. Could you let me know if you've still not got it? Cheers, --YFB ¿ 15:55, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Block plz

Hi. Can you block me indefinetly? I'd prefer to do it by request than by action. This is not the enforcement of a wikibreak. Unless I am blocked in a way that I cannot undo without a third party taking action, I WILL SUE YOU IN A COURT OF LAW IN TRENTON, NEW JERSEY. I will retract my legal threat when I feel like it. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Capital punishment in Belarus

Can you see me on IRC about this article please? User:Zscout370 22:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Appreciation

JzG, I really appreciate the cool head and even-handedness you've brought to this discussion. I recognize that some of my posts last night weren't as well-considered as they might (and should) have been, and apologize for that. Thank you for looking out for the project.Proabivouac 22:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Another premie bio

Question: is Madeline Mann worth folding into Premature birth, or should we delete it? It seems pretty useless to me. -- Donald Albury 23:41, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I just dumped a whole heap of fluff, which just leaves an article about the second smallest premature baby ever. Its not speedyable under any criteria and in my opinion just warrrants a line in Premature birth. I am just going to dump that in and redirect it there. Viridae 23:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge completed. Feel free to take the redirect to RfD. I would oppose speedy deletion however. Have removed references to the names of both premmies. See what you think. Viridae 23:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

And now we have both mentions referenced. Viridae 23:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Works for me. -- Donald Albury 00:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

So how is this helpful? What did this solve? --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:08, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Well as much as I am on your side regarding unilateral deletions, the article was full of fluff (she is 17 and likes horseriding - whoopdedo) so when I removed the fluff, it left a very short article on the worlds second smallest premature birth - mildly interesting but not in my opinion worth an article of its own. Consequently (and to forestall possible outright deletion/more arguments) I merged everything relevant into the parent article, where people are more likely to want to find it (ie they are reading about premmies and they read how small the worlds smallest was). This is one of the times where I agree that notability from one incident 15 years ago (and she was only the worlds smallest premmie for 6 years) does not make it worthy of a biographical article. And considering there isn't much to be gained from having an article on Worlds second smallest premature baby the information is more useful in the parent article. Viridae 00:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, her story was interesting enough for peopel tostill care 17 years later. That's why this one is so baffling. Furthermore, the redirect tells me nothing. Her name doesn't even pop up, as an example. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:16, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed her name intentionally - but feel free to put it back. The redirect redirects to the appropriate section - as anyone who would be actively searching for her name would have to already have a good idea of who she was, given that she is not notable in any other way. Viridae 00:18, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Unless, of course, they're looking for detailed information. I may revert the whole thing, really. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh god, Rumaisa Rahman has just been undeleted. Viridae 00:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

And my merge removed. Viridae 00:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Should have never been deleted. Unreferenced? Yup, but easily fixable. Negative or controversial? Nope. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, and discussions should take place at Talk:Rumaisa Rahman rather than here. violet/riga (t) 00:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, and nothing to do with my merge - please don't remove the section I added again. It breaks the redirect from the merge. Viridae 00:26, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest to Doc, Guy or anyone else who wants to get rid of Rumaisa Rahman, that they do so by way of AfD not another speedy deletion. Viridae 00:28, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

• The solution is pretty obvious. I merged and redirected to premature birth#Records, where we can discuss the various extreme premature births in an encyclopaedic context without violating WP:NOT. Guy (Help!) 09:11, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
  • If you had read what I wrote up there ^ you would notice that is what I basically did - you just gave it a better title and made it snappier/worded it better (mine was a rushed job). excuse me if I am assuming bad faith, but that comment looked liek you were unhappy with my solution. Viridae 09:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Kohs on Meta

Well, I went to Meta to see about blacklisting his site, but Kohs has popped up to dispute my nomination and the admin there doesn't seem to really understand the history or be convinced by the evidence of linkspamming. Some more opinions there would be helpful. --Calton | Talk 04:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Reddi behavior

Please comment. --ScienceApologist 16:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Question about Verification

I'm happy to see you working with Mr. Merkey, and I have a couple questions. Assuming you've read through our dispute (about WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:CONSENSUS), am I generally in the wrong here? And if not, do you have any advice on how to reconcile his position to my own? Or if I am completely correct, is there a way we/I can hold Mr. Merkey to some interpretation of policy (without the situation devolving into another troll campaign)? I know I'm asking a lot, and I'm fine if your answer is something like, "wait and see." I just want to be in the loop a little, as I feel out dispute has received the short shrift in comparison with the AGF and troll based issues, and I want to know where the dispute stands if/when Mr. Merkey is returned editing privileges. Thanks, Smmurphy 16:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

the solution will be mediation, I think. I hope Phaedriel can be persuaded to help. JzG 17:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Light Opera Works

Hello. Further to the whole Philip Kraus/Paxart situation: What do you think of the new link at Light Opera Works to Philip Kraus's history site? It appears that Kraus has been building this site because the official LOW site has expunged all mention of his name. I have no reason to believe that it is not accurate (frankly, I have not reviewed it carefully), but it is a partly commercial site, and given the excesses of some of his claims, and his bitterness towards the current LOW management, as illustrated by his vandalizing her WP page, I cannot be sure that it is accurate. Would WP:RS and WP:EL require deletion of the link? Best regards, -- Ssilvers 18:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Jeff Merkey & the Cherokee dispute

Hi there, Guy! :) I've just been contacted by Jeffrey Merkey regarding the dispute on the Cherokee article, following your suggestion that I could help mediate in the terrible dispute taking place there. In fact, I asked for the page to be protected a few days ago myself, and I'm intimately familiar with the positions of both sides. Therefore, I'll be happy to help the best I can. I can't drop by IRC right now, but there's more I'd need to discuss with you regarding this matter. So please, let me know the times you're usually on so I can meet with you and analyze this a little, k? Hope you're doing fine, sweetie, ttyl! Love, Phaedriel - 18:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)