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About Illyric language. See this link. http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/4689/grabovac.htm, about fra Filip Grabovac, the author of Cvit razgovora naroda i jezika iliričkoga aliti arvackoga (...Illyric or Croat).
Or this title, from the the library of Faculty of Philosophy in Zagreb. Search result .
A dictionary by Andrija Jambrešić and Franjo Sušnik.
Title is : Lexicon Latinum interpretatione Illyrica, Germanica et Hungarica locuples : in usum potissimum studiosae juventutis / digestum ab Andrea Jambressich, Societatis Jesu sacerdote, Croata Zagoriensi Impresum: Zagrabi : Typis Academicis Societatis Jesu, , 1742 . Kubura 12:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's a link to the library of Faculty of Philosophy in Zagreb. Search result .
Book of the author Jakov Mikalja.
Title is Blago jezika slovinskoga illi Slovnik : u komu izgorarajuse rjeci slovinske latinski i diacki = Thesaurus linguae Illyricae sive Dictionarium Illyricum : in quo verba Illyrica Italice et Latine redduntur / labore p. Jacobi Micalia ; Grammatika talianska u kratko ili Kratak nauk za naucitti latinski jezik / koga slovinski upisa otac Jacov Mikaglja ... Impresum: Laureti : apud Paulum et Io. Baptistam Seraphinum , 1649 . Kubura 12:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

From the Talk:Serbo-Croatian language:
virtually all literature written in shtokavian vernacular prior to Serbian language reformer Vuk Karadžić, ie. cca. 430 years of literary texts, belong to the Croatian linguistic and literary heritage. First major vernacular shtokavian text is "First Croatian prayer book", kept in Vatican library- date cca. 1380-1400. Then follow major authors covering Renaissance, Baroque, Classicist and Sentimental literaure: Držić, Menčetić, Gundulić, Bunić, Palmotić, Zlatarić (Dubrovnik), Kavanjin (Split, Dalmatia), Kanavelović (Korčula, Dalmatia), Divković, Posilović (Bosnia), Kačić(Dalmatia), Relković, Ivanošić, Došen (Slavonia)..
The majority of these texts are titled as works on "Illyrian" or "Slovinian"/"Slavonic" language, but they explicitly equate Illyrian with Croatian- dor instance, first major shtokavian-based dictionary, Mikalja's/Micaglia's "Thesaurus linguae illyricae", Loreto 1649. "Hrvat, Hervat = Illyricus, Croata".
Further info on older Croatian lexicography can be found at http://www.hlz.hr/eng/povijest.html Kubura 19:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not possible to understand what you want to show with the above quotations.--Giovanni Giove 22:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The article should be named Jakov Mikalja.
Also, I supposed which questions might arose, so I've intercepted them. Kubura 13:39, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

And, again, "Serbocroatian"?
What Serbs are you talking about?
What are you doing, Giove? Playing dumb?
Ignoring and deleting my data I've posted here???
That's vandalism!
POV-ising with inserting adjective "Serbo-" where isn't any there and deleting any lines that link to Croatian language and deleting (???) the sourcenames in original Croatian (you've deleted the lines Blago jezika slovinskoga illi slovnik u komu izgovarajuse rjeci slovinske Latinski i Diacki). Kubura 14:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Mikalja/Micaglia is not just Croat, or just Italian

@Giovanni: Please stop reverting everything. Be constructive.
Do not just change Croatian to Illyrian or Serbocroatian etc. First mentioning of Serbocroatian is in 18th century. Equality between name "Illyrian language" and "Croatian" is documented and well known, so it is not unsubstantiated. He is known by name "Mikalja" not only in Croatia, so don't refer to his name like it is only in Croatia.
@Kubura: He is definitely Italian, and Croat too. So please leave adjective "Italian" where it is.
--Plantago 11:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Micaglia himself declared to be Italian. End of discussion. All other claims are totally sourced: most of all Illyric does not coincide with Croatian. Best regards--Giovanni Giove 11:37, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

First - I wrote "Italian...of Croatian origin", and that is what he said too. Is there a problem with that? Napoleon was Frenchman, but Corsican too. Stalin was Great Russian, but Georgian by origin. You are Italian, but proud of your Venetian origin. Venetians are/were not Italian by ethnicity, but are Italians by nationality. So, he is Italian by nationality, and declared that he had non-Italian origin.

Micaglia is not of Croat origin, but of 'South Slavic': you cant claim is just 'Croat'. YOU have to tell why, according to you , is "Croat".

Second, your statement "most of all Illyric does not coincide with Croatian" is not completely clear. What does it mean? Is it in connection to the new section you just added to the article, claiming that Illyrian is not Croatian because Croatian was standardized in 19th century? When was Italian or German standardized? Does it mean that language has to be standardized to exist!? Whot are your references for such claims. I will put "original research" mark on that section, because you didn't cite any source. Please read articles about your language, German, English, Croatian, Serbian, Serbo-Croatian, whatever, and then try to write relevant addition to article. Just to mention, this article is not your property, so you can just delete work of anyone but you, including referenced literature. Maybe expert opinion would be good answer? --Plantago 12:18, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Italian was studied and standardized in XIV etc. German shortly later, Croat in XIX cent. Before XIX cent. nobody ever talked about a 'Croatian' language outside historical Croatia (such us in Dalmatia, Ragusa or whatever). There are no linguistic disntiction between the 3 serbocratian dialects (if you like it....). If the 'serbocroatian' word is now imppopular in Croatia for political reasons, find an equivalent word. But don't claim for what is not yours (or belogs just in part). The dictionary is based on 'Bosnian' language; so, why it is not a 'Bosnian Dictionary)?... can you claim that Bosnia is or was part of 'Croatia'? Best regards--Giovanni Giove 11:20, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

So back to the point - this is NOT article about any language, but the guy called Giacomo Micaglia AND Jakov Mikalja, who was Jesuit and lexicographer. All other is in the wrong place (how old is his name, what is illyrian, what is Bosnian etc.).
His name, whether created in 13th or 20th century should be mentioned without any restrictions, if he is known in some parts of the world (at least Slavic-language speaking countries - from Russia to Croatia) by that name. It may be violation of NPOV of Slavic historiographers and linguists, but it is not on us to judge is it right or not, as it is against Misplaced Pages policy. It is not on us to judge is Illyrian different from Croatian, is it also Serbian or what, because relevant (please, relevant here means linguistic) sources (Italian also!) explicitly mention Illyric of that time as equivalent to Croatian, or if you want me to say this way - language which is spoken between people on Eastern coast of Adriatic see, covering not only Dalmatia and Republic of Ragusa, but also southern parts of Bosnia, which are oriented to Adriatic (actually, medieval Bosnian kingdom and Ottoman province of Bosnia ruled big parts of Dalmatia for a long time). The aim of his work was the help in counter-reform struggle in Dalmatia and other places, to get people back to proper Catholic faith, as it is already written in the article. People who he was trying to get back to the "mother church" were definitely NOT Muslim (whose self-identification was Turks or Poturica, nowadays Bosniaks) or Orthodox Christians (identified as Serbs), but former Catholic Christians who became Protestants, which were and are identified as Croats. Remember that the main difference between people of that time was religion, especially in Balkans (unfortunately, also today).
And finally - Giovanni's remark about standardization of Croatian, I have to disappoint him - language standardization has nothing with language existence. People in Italy spoke something, first Vulgar Latin and then Italian even before Divine comedy, as synthesis between Southern Italian and Tuscan Italian was written. Even though, Croatian was not standardized in XIX century (1850), only the current standard was than accepted and joint agenda agreed with Serbs, and only from that time noun Serbo-Croatian exists. Before that, there were various standards, much older (ironically, one of them based on prints in Venice in 1595 and Rome in 1604). Please read Croatian language#History. If he has some new information to discuss, I am inviting him to join that article's discussion and leave poor Giacomo/Jacob/Jakov rest in peace.--Plantago 06:38, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Plantago, I know about the problem.
I've seen a link where it states that Jakov was born in Peschici, on peninsula of Gargano.
In fact, the link from Italian domain, Reportonline, , speaks about Latino-Croat dictionary (Una storia secolare culminata nel vocabolario Latino-Croato che i gesuiti usarono per portare la Controriforma in Croazia).
I've also seen the line "Egli si definiva slavo di lingua, italiano di nazionalità ed originario, appunto, di Peschici".
I respect that. I don't deny that. Unless someone made a "hairdressing" of data.
Regarding the history of Croatian language, on the talk page of Republic of Dubrovnik, I wrote a bunch of text with a bunch of links to the library of HAZU, Croatian academy of sciences and arts. Some of those links contain scanned pages of the works that deal with Croatian, Illyrian, use of Croatian language in previous centuries (not just in 20th century, as one user said). But, Giovanni Giove ignored that. In fact, he said: . "Kubura's comments are false, Kubura was NEVER able to prove that Giovanni Giove's edits are wrong". Yeah, wright, starting with the language. Kubura 07:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Take a break, poor Kubura. You wrote nothing in Ragusa talk page. Nobody deny that Illyrics texts were wrotten in Ragusa. It's you that deny that also Italian texts were wrotten.

Where have I denied that? Or you're playing dumb again?
If you remember, I've written on the talk page of Republic of Dubrovnik: "...They (higher social classes) spoke and used Italian language, only to differ them from the serfs and other lower social classes. That is the case that existed all over Europe. ...". on 11 August 2006, 08:35.
On 13 February 2007, 12:38, I've written:"Third, Ragusean Dalmatian language is not the same as Italian language, neither belongs to the same subgroup of Romanic languages".
I just disagree with someone's overestimations of use of Italian language, as well as of presence of Italians. Do you know the information that women rarely spoke Italian?
In contemporary Croatia the Esperanto texts are also written, exclusively by highly educated people, but that doesn't make Croatia as Esperanto country. Kubura 20:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

"Hrvatski leksikon" (edition from 1995) speaks about Mikalja as a "descendant of Croat refugees from Dalmatia, that went into refuge (into Italy) because of Ottoman advance".Kubura 20:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Name

This is an article about an Italian guy called Giacamo Micaglia. The Croatian transaltion of his name is just a translation, and it was never used by the guy. His only name is Giacomo Micaglia. He can't be classified of Croat origin. Mikalija is anyway inserted (as a translation)--Giovanni Giove 13:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

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