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Anthony Peratt

Anthony Peratt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

This article was prodded on the grounds that it fails WP:PROF. I, too, believe it fails PROF, but think that its a close enough call that we should discuss it here. semper fictilis 22:31, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

• Delete as nom; insufficiently notable. semper fictilis 22:39, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
• Delete His research and name can be mentioned on the pages describing the subjects he researched. Notability does not "rub off" onto someone just because they found something notable, unless they did something notable to find that something notable (like Galileo or Columbus). NobutoraTakeda 22:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

with that policy, WP would be a kindergarten-level encyclopedia. 5 or 10 scientists, 5 or so explorers, possible 20 rock bands... The criterion you refuse to accept, "because they did something notable" is WP notability. But i shouldn't bite, today is your first day on WP. DGG (talk) 00:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• Delete not notable (added by user Onceonthisisland)
• Keep lots of google hits for his books and his name; lots of hits in Google Scholar - passes WP:PROF. I note too that he has been in Wiki for three years and has edits from about 20 people - indicates notability. Springnuts 22:57, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Ghits are not a good way to determine the notability of an academic. I think that many people have edited the article because there are a number of catastrophists who are active on Misplaced Pages trying to promote and advertise their ideas. They generally choose a few obscure academics whose ideas they like and blow them out-of-proportion. --Mainstream astronomy 23:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Peratt is not only an accomplished scientist, but also a leader in the field of Plasma cosmology (Plasma Universe), his academic book, Physics of the Plasma Universe has been reviewd in Astrophysics and space science, in Science, and in Sky and Telescope, and I'm sure he will be found to be notable by the 3000 professional engineers and scientists who are members of the IEEE Nuclear and Plasma Sciences Society who receive the journal Transactions on Plasma Science (in which he is am Associate Editor), and by the several hundred scientists and engineers who share his view on Cosmology. --Iantresman 23:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Comment - and by the several hundred scientists and engineers who share his view on Cosmology.. This is a gross misrepresentation of who has signed the open letter. Most of its signatories are Big Bang Busters with agendas ranging from Velikovsky to creationism. Such votes ought to be removed from consideration on the basis of his dishonesty. --Mainstream astronomy 01:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The list shows 218 "Scientists and Engineers", excluding the original signatories. But you are correct that most of the people who signed their name, are not shown as either Scientists and Engineers (ie. 187 independent researchers, and 105 others). But my statement does appear to be accurate, and yours to be unsubstantiated and uncivil --Iantresman 02:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletions. -- Bduke 23:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Insufficient evidence of notability. He is an accomplished senior academic, but WP:PROF requires more than being an accomplished senior academic. Raymond Arritt 23:41, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

simply false, it requires being more notable than the average academic,and as you yourself say, he meets this. DGG (talk) 00:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

No, the criteria for WP:PROF require more than being "above average." Peratt appears to be good at what he does, but he's no more notable than several of the guys down the hall from me. The stuff that Iantresman cites, for example, is normal for any professor at a Research-I university. Raymond Arritt 01:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

it is perfectly possible that several of the guys down the hall from you may be notable. DGG (talk) 01:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• Weak Keep Peratt is a figure in the specialty of "plasma cosmology" which is not necessarily regarded as mainstream, as an examination of the links in the article on him will show, and in the past those associated with this movement have aroused a considerable amount of possibly POV discussion on all sides. This presumably accounts for some of the comments in both directions expressed above. I want to reexamine his record systematically.

Some non-mainstream figures have in the past been considered important at AfD, based on the non-academic notability as shown by popular books, and press mentions; this seems not to be the case with him, so he must be evaluated on the basis of academic accomplishments.

The practice, since there is no formal "precedent" at AfD, in evaluation of academics is that all full professors at research Universities brought to AfD have always been considered notable, because of the work they have published and the peer reviews they have undergone--all instances where these have been investigated here in detail have been found notable, for at least the last 6 months. This correlates to the WP:PROF criterion of being highly respected by ones colleagues for ones body of work. If the astrophysicists at say, Princeton or CalTech regards someone as distinguished enough for their top academic rank, I think we'd accept their judgement. However, Peratt is not a professor at a research university. For some reason the bio in the article is somewhat sketchy: a full one on the website of IEEE is at ; (I cannot account for why it was not included in the article; we normally regard information from such sources as reliable for factual career details unless there is evidence to the contrary) He is a scientist at Los Alamos, and his previous career has been there and at Livermore; it is difficult to correlate positions at these labs with academic ranks, so this cannot be used as a preliminary criterion.

So we go by the publications, honors and awards. Being the editor-in-chief of a major peer-reviewed journal has been held highly notable--this are the prestige positions for the most distinguished; IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science is an important mainstream journal from the most important scientific society in the general field of electrical engineering and related subjects. But he is he is not editor in chief, but rather one of the 15 associate editors. This by itself has not always been considered enough for notability, though sometimes it has been, in connection with other factors. He holds several awards as listed on that page, but no really major honors. Publications are judged by citations. Using WebofScience, as customary, I find he has 69 publications included there, not all of them peer-reviewed papers--about half seem short comments or editorials. However, they are not highly cited: the five most cited are cited 24, 18, 18, 18, 17 times He has 9 papers cited 10 or more times, for an h index of 9, not particularly impressive. However, he has two papers in Physical Review Letters, the very most distinguished physics journal.

On balance, this is borderline. The associate editorship is almost enough for notability, the publications are relatively weak. Put together I would call it a Weak Keep.

I want to add a word about possible prejudice: I have such high respect for the scientific establishment that I have devoted my career to its service. But this does not diminish the importance of the non-mainstream people for a comprehensive encyclopedia, for by confrontation with these views, progress is made. I am, frankly, very suspicious of the attempts of those in any establishment to exclude those without: I call it negative COI. I do not think this article should have been nominated for deletion. DGG (talk) 02:26, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

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