Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2007 July 27: Difference between revisions

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	Admin closed the debate with the following rationale: 'However there is no information about how rare this coin is, where any samples are located, whether any can be photographed, etc. Because of this, the image can not be seen to pass NFCC #1. Further, there is no information on the source or copyright-holder of the photograph, so NFCC #10 fails as well. Sorry.' However, on the itself is the answer to this very question: 'CBM (the nominator), for your information, most of the coins from the "Indo-Greek" series that you tagged are unique specimens, which are located at the Cabinet des Medailles, Paris, where it is not allowed for the general public to take photographs of them'. This is a request for review on procedural grounds. I feel as though the admin did not take into proper account the information within the discussion, and that the second guideline that s/he gives can be remedied rather than used as rationale for deletion. Therefore, please review this deletion, as well as the related coin image deletions. ]<sup>]</sup> 05:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)		Admin closed the debate with the following rationale: 'However there is no information about how rare this coin is, where any samples are located, whether any can be photographed, etc. Because of this, the image can not be seen to pass NFCC #1. Further, there is no information on the source or copyright-holder of the photograph, so NFCC #10 fails as well. Sorry.' However, on the itself is the answer to this very question: 'CBM (the nominator), for your information, most of the coins from the "Indo-Greek" series that you tagged are unique specimens, which are located at the Cabinet des Medailles, Paris, where it is not allowed for the general public to take photographs of them'. This is a request for review on procedural grounds. I feel as though the admin did not take into proper account the information within the discussion, and that the second guideline that s/he gives can be remedied rather than used as rationale for deletion. Therefore, please review this deletion, as well as the related coin image deletions. ]<sup>]</sup> 05:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
			* I'm the admin who closed the case and deleted the image. A few salient points. (1) There was no source for the photograph listed, and no information of who holds the copyright. (2) If there is only one surviving copy of this coin in existence, and if that copy is not available for photography, then I agree that the image is non-replaceable. But I have seen no evidence of this. (3) CaveatLector is a great contributor, and this image was useful and encyclopedic. I take no joy in deleting it -- I just don't think our policies allowed us to keep it. If we can determine where it is housed, I would be willing to write the museum and request that they release a photo under a free license, following ]. – ] <sup>(]) (])</sup> 17:42, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

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Revision as of 17:42, 27 July 2007

< July 26	Deletion review archives: 2007 July	July 28 >

27 July 2007

Chocolate Rain

Currenly the most popular video on youtube, and like it or not people want to know about it. If you really care about wikipedia, don't delete the chocolate rain entry. It informs those who read it (self-included, after I googled the cache), and harms no-one who doesn't.

If a group of vigilant wikipedians really wants to prevent other people from accessing this page and learning from it, they'll probably succeed. But before you go down that path, ask yourself- why? What purpose does it serve? If people are truly so uniformly convinced the topic doesn't matter, they simply won't request info on it/ask it in the first place.

Bottom line: Chocolate Rain is all over Youtube and has been featured on nationally syndicated radio shows, and thousands of people are coming to wikipedia for info on it. "Noteworthy" is of anything, a gauge of what people are interested in reading about. And regardless of what self-appointed tastemakers think, Chocolate Rain currently fits that criterion.

I restored this article because it had the info I wanted about this song. Misplaced Pages let me down for the first time in a long time by refusing to provide me with information about this widespread internet fad. I and countless thousands of others were relying on wikipedia to provide us with information on this admittedly stupid internet fad. I see no reason why the hard work of fellow contributors written to address this topic should be deleted by third parties that think they know what I, and thousands of others, should and shouldn't care about, and should or shouldn't deem "noteworthy"

I've seen the video, I know it sucks, and that it won't be "noteworthy" in 6 months. THATS NOT THE POINT. A main reason wikipedia has an advantage over regular encyclopedias is because it covers this type of thing, good or bad.

Work on wikipedia with the aim of providing information, not deleting other peoples work because it isnt "noteworthy" in YOUR opinion. -jjrsJeffjrstewart 13:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Redirect to Internet Phenomenon as many in the original AFD suggested. It's not notable, regardless of the hoopla in AFD over it. If not redirect, delete. Torinir ( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options ) 13:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Chocolate rain, some don't want and some say overturn. I'm the former. Don't recreate Will 15:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Endorse unless here is some evidence that it has been recognized as important by reliable sources. There wasn't any in the afd. We're a filter on the internet. As Jimbo says, we make the Internet not suck. DGG (talk) 15:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Delete If this song deserves a page, then let's give every song a page. Even the fourth song on the third album of "Goo Goo Dolls" - whatever that is. Niyant 15:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Endorse deletion and salt this article to prevent its re-creation yet again. ɑʀкʏɑɴ 15:49, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Endorse decision, or alternately, redirect to Internet Phenomenon - there were a lot of merge suggestions in the AFD, and that would seem to make sense. Nothing to complain about in the AFD, though. (Oh, and Niyant: There You Are, which was their first single and hit #21 on the Modern Rock charts. No article - yet... though it's a redlink on the album's article.) Tony Fox (arf!) 15:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Endorse deletion and Salt Valid AFD, no good reason given to overturn. Fails WP:MUSIC by miles. Misplaced Pages obviously isn't going to have an article on every Youtube video, even the "popular" ones: that's more in the domain of a YouTube-specific wiki than a general-interest encyclopedia. No opion on a redirect to internet phenomena, but I suspect if it goes there it won't stay long. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:AlexPorusCoin.JPG

Admin closed the debate with the following rationale: 'However there is no information about how rare this coin is, where any samples are located, whether any can be photographed, etc. Because of this, the image can not be seen to pass NFCC #1. Further, there is no information on the source or copyright-holder of the photograph, so NFCC #10 fails as well. Sorry.' However, on the talk page itself is the answer to this very question: 'CBM (the nominator), for your information, most of the coins from the "Indo-Greek" series that you tagged are unique specimens, which are located at the Cabinet des Medailles, Paris, where it is not allowed for the general public to take photographs of them'. This is a request for review on procedural grounds. I feel as though the admin did not take into proper account the information within the discussion, and that the second guideline that s/he gives can be remedied rather than used as rationale for deletion. Therefore, please review this deletion, as well as the related coin image deletions. CaveatLector 05:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm the admin who closed the case and deleted the image. A few salient points. (1) There was no source for the photograph listed, and no information of who holds the copyright. (2) If there is only one surviving copy of this coin in existence, and if that copy is not available for photography, then I agree that the image is non-replaceable. But I have seen no evidence of this. (3) CaveatLector is a great contributor, and this image was useful and encyclopedic. I take no joy in deleting it -- I just don't think our policies allowed us to keep it. If we can determine where it is housed, I would be willing to write the museum and request that they release a photo under a free license, following this great advice. – Quadell 17:42, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Muhammad's Monsters

Article was nominated for deletion (see discussion here) on the basis that it failed notability guidelines as it lacked non-trivial coverage from independent reliable sources. the arguments for "Keep" asserted that because the author- David Bukay (and other authors used by him within the book) was notable, a seperate article on one of his publications was thus also automatically notable. the discussion was later closed as no consensus (default to keep), though still i believe the fundamental lack of any substantial reliable source coverage cannot be ignored. i raised the issue with the closing administrator, but as he disagreed, i decided i ought to run this case by other experienced users. ITAQALLAH 02:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I summed it up in the comment I left for the nominator: It's not a "vote", so a 4-2 count isn't overly relevant. Similarly WP:BK is a guideline, not a command. Legitimate arguments were made in good faith on both sides by very established editors who with one exception (not a "keep" voice) have literally thousands of edits on Islamic topics - neither side of the debate's position was so overwhelming so as to demonstrate that the community's consensus was to delete or keep, hence "no consensus". Although not raised as in the debate there is a tendency to keep compilation works where the contributors include several notable people: when two or more notable musicians collaborate on a project/album/song or as here, a book with essays (chapters) by several independently notable contributors. Again, I could see no obvious consensus to either keep or delete.

In short, I saw no consensus, but now we can have many more people see whether I ought to have seen one. Carlossuarez46 03:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, and in which direction consensus pointed. Carlossuarez46 03:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  - just to clarify: i don't believe AfD discussions are votes; i'm not too concerned about the numbers. there was no evidence of notability provided during the AfD, and i believe there is still no evidence of notability. ITAQALLAH 03:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
    - For what it's worth: I think I did manage to find the Haaretz article online here; at least I think it's the one. Carlossuarez46 06:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
This should have been deleted anyhow, because there are no sources. "Default" should not be, let's violate policy until we have a superconsensus not to.Proabivouac 03:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
- What policy? What the WP:DELETE policy says regarding deletions based on no sources is: "Article information that cannot possibly be attributed to reliable sources" and "All attempts to find reliable sources in which article information can be verified have failed". If the mere fact of no cited sources permits deletion, I'd like to see that clarified here, because there are thousands of articles currently lacking sources: July, for one example. Other than Haaretz, mentioned by the nominator and Amazon.com are sufficiently reliable sources for the existence and identity of the authors of the book, which could be placed in a reference section. The question here really is whether there was consensus regarding notability. Carlossuarez46 04:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I, too, think it fails the notability requirements. --Aminz 08:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Article should be kept , this book contains the writings of very notable experts on the topic.--CltFn 11:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Relist there was no consensus, but there might have been with a longer argument. I !voted to delete, on the grounds that the book itself was important. The !votes for keep were on the basis that the authors were individually notable. The relative importance of this was not addressed, and I do not want to decide it here. There is a valid question about the applicable policy. DGG (talk) 15:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Keep As CltFn point out, the book is written by highly notable experts. The closing admin made the right decision. -- Karl Meier 17:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Sin Sizzerb

Meets WP Music,WP:N HarryHall86 00:46, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Endorse deletion Valid AfD, no new information given that would cause us to overturn. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 03:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Comment: if some of the claims made at AfD were sourced (like the claim of reaching #19 on the charts in Serbia), then I would actually consider supporting undeletion. However, since the article was deleted at a proper AfD, and there were no obvious procedural errors, we need real evidence before we can reconsider this. WP:MUSIC is only a guideline; Misplaced Pages:Verifiability is absolute policy. Xtifr _tälk 12:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Comment:(http://www.sizzerb.com/news/IPS.xls) - reference to reaching #19 on Album charts in Serbia. (You may need to click open if it asks you to) 58.174.226.155 12:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
- We need independent, reliable sources; sizzerb.com is clearly not independent, and is unlikely to be considered a reliable source. Xtifr _tälk 13:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)