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== Copernicus == == Copernicus ==


¿Why does ] was not a Polish and ] and ] were Germans? ¿Why does ] was not a Polish and ] and ] were Germans? <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 13:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Revision as of 13:47, 13 September 2007

File:No moose horns.JPG

Krahe

-Hey Space -- I don't think the Prussian crow was anything but antagonistic...definitely not NPOV or encyclopedic. Perhaps it at least needs an explanation?? JHK


While you're at it, the Misplaced Pages software doesn't recognize URLs ending in ".JPG" as images. Please change them to ".jpg" (lowercase) before you upload them, or they'll display as links instead of images. -- Lee Daniel Crocker


Someone has placed a parody of a Prussian Eagle on this wiki: Crow entrance. The parody, that had been posted , a depiction of a Prussian crow, by itself, may have been meant to be more or less humorous, by the person, who entered it.(To look at the image you need to look at the wiki history of the Prussian crow entrance). It has by now been removed.

Taking this still existing wiki:Prussian crow link and the (at the moment removed) image in connection with the wiki: Crow text, it becomes representative of the murderous actions taken against the Prussian people starting after 1919 and by the millions in 1944/1945 till 1949 and ongoing (taking away Prussians homeland, expulsions, exiling, genocide).

Should this parody of a specification of a crow be here ?

user:H.J.


Frau user:H.J.! Thousand apologies! But does't "Polish Goose" (Polnische Dummkopf)sound much worse than Prussian Crow (Preussische Krahe). Anyway, in my defence, it wasn't the Prussian Eagle, the parody was intended at. You just didn't get.

Space Cadet



To Space Cadet ,

I thought you were already kicked of wiki for your "Nazi" remark ? Well, I guess you apologized to someone then too.

I know that you are trying to translate things on internet by the automatic translation services. I have looked at a few, and found that they do no translate anywhere near acceptable.Therefore they should be used with a great big warning lable , because they most likely create more mischief and harm, than good.

Now to your "Polish Goose" (Polnische Dummkopf). Why do you write that here? What do I have to do with it?

Nevertheless,to answer your question "Polish Goose" would be translated "Polnische Gans". "Dummkopf" in English means "dumb head". In German slang language, and childish people would call each other "Dumme Gans" or "Dumme Kuh" , "dumb goose" or "dumb cow", most often , men would say that to or about a female, as in American they say "dumb broad". Instead of dumb you can also use "bloede" , which is :more dumb ,retarded. Gans is always female, die Gans. So you might have possibly read this somewhere on some internet talk forum. But that does not belong in the wiki articles or wiki talk discussions.

Do did not explain, what you meant by putting a "Prussian crow" on the serious article about crows, other than saying to me "you did not get it". What was it, that was supposed to be gotten ?

You need to make a difference between casual conversation and worldwide supposedly scholarly entries.

I do not know, but I think that basically you mean well. Therefore I would accept your thousand apologies. But I do not really know who is apologizing, is it Space Cadet ?, or is it Pan Mruk ? aka Richard Grayson ? aka Mrukkert von Engeldorf ? (also known as: from Los Angeles).

Perhaps you should next sign as "Spaced out Cadet"

user:H.J.


To user:H.J. from Space Cadet. (I'm not so sure about "Spaced out Cadet", have you resorted to name calling again in lack of other arguments?, please explain.)

No! Nobody attempted to kick me off.
No! I didn't apologize to anybody. BTW, did you have to apologize for your Commie remark? Remember, back on the Estrid talk page, when you ran out of patience and historical knowledge, and switched to offensive accusations, suggesting that I use Communist propaganda?
No! It was not a Nazi remark! Having been a member of HJ or BDM as a child, does not make anybody a Nazi!If a child did not want to join, he (and his whole family) would be considered an enemy of the state and sent to KL.
No! I don't use Beta automatic translations, because I can't understand a word. (And speaking of warning labels, I should probably start employing them, every time I use expression "thousand apologies" as bitter irony).
Polish goose was a disparaging term in XIX and XX century used by German propaganda in the occupied Polish territories, to describe the Polish White Eagle and I would be surprised, if you were truly not aware of that.
Also, if I'm a Communist, expression "Pan" does not apply (try to be consistent). Proper form would be "towarzysz", which means "comrade".
And no! It's not Los Angeles (although you're very close). It's actually a beautiful suburb of Sacramento, with a well developed Polish community - Me, Myself and I.

Spaced out Cadet (your wish is my command! - WARNING!!! - bitter irony).


Fr. user:H.J. --

Have you ever head the phrase, "the pot calling the kettle black"? or, "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"? Others here already mentioned to SC that the crow was in bad taste (and he took it down immediately), but most of his history is pretty decent, if leaning towards the Polish interpretation of things. However, since your contributions have never been anything but biased, not to mention badly written and often walking the line of outright plagiarism, AND continuously disregard any of the naming conventions or any other guidelines to be found on this encyclopedia, what gives you the right to attack anyone?JHK


http://space-cadet.com/meet.html Space Cadet to Space Cadet

Mrukkert von Engeldorf does not translate to "from Sacramento".

message unsigned

But in Mazurian it translates to "I love Citrus Heights". And in Pomezanian it translates to "Please don't change the arrangement of articles on my page, like I wouldn't on yours". Nice site, 'though, so you're forgiven, you anonymous enterer, you!

Space Cadet

To Space Cadet Mruk, don't you mean Marsian and Venusian ?? (You have changed articles on my personal page several times, not I ) To refresh you on your previous comments (in ref. to above) re-check your comments at user:H.J. Talk. Anyway your latest email seems to explain why you were a little spaced out and are now Self-Censored I guess you are back in orbit. I'll answer by email Ginnis kails user:H.J.


Just once. The Copernicus stuff. But I would never do that again. Space Cadet


OK, I'm glad you're better HJ


  • deleted talk that was a copy from Talk:Gdansk (or maybe vica versa)


Would you please explain what Censored.JPG is for? It doesn't look like a picture that would illustrate an article. -PierreAbbat


I thought I deleted it a million years ago! Space Cadet


Hello, Space Cadet,

My opinions on Mazoji Lietuva? Mixed. Certainly has ancient and not-so-ancient Baltic settlements. Certainly was part of Lithuania. Hasn't been for a while, was Teutonic and Polish and Prussian at various times in between. (I'm not 100% certain that area was part of Poland ever.) Certainly isn't now part of Lithuania, nor is it likely to be anytime soon. As to the politics, hey, Lithuania is saying "We'll give all of you visas, just let us have the modicum of control over out borders that a visa allows".

Tamulis

Correction: Was never part of Lithuania. It was Prussian and that is the "Baltic" connection to Lithuania, but only in ancient ethnicity and not in terms of any statehood. Since the middle ages it was contiuosly controlled by the Teutonic Knights, and then incorporated into Germany. "By Poland" -- when would that be? -- other than the post-WWII remaping of Europe by Stalin, sliding Poland to the west by several hundred miles and loping off eastern Germany to Poland. A Tamulis


Another correction: In 1466 the Teutonic Prussia became the vassal state of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. In 1525 Teutonic Prussia secularized and became the protestant Duchy of Prussia - a fief of Poland-Lithuania. Incorporation into Germany, however, did not happen until 1871. And as far as I know, all this time until now the region was populated by 75% Lithuanian population. What does the word "Tamulis" mean?

Space Cadet


Hi Space Cadet, I was really pleased, that you've agreed with the Odra compromise. Unfortunately, Taw does not fully agree. I fear, that he will begin to revert my changes, if I start to translate the compromise into action. Maybe, some words from you to him will be more helpful than arguments from my side. I am hoping for good cooperation -- Cordyph 16:08 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)

Hi again, thank you for the friendly words on my talk page. As for your assumption about my name, you are almost right: It is a Serbo-Croatian name. It is reassuring to know, that your words on the Odra talk page were a joke - my wish for good luck in fighting for a Poland from the Rhine to the Ural was a joke as well, of course.
Concerning the "Landsmannschaften" and their revanchist claims, it is my hope, that these folks will become extinct soon (at least those of them talking about regaining German lands). I have the impression, that I hear such claims much rarer than in the past. Although I use to say "Danzig" or "Stettin" (not here on Misplaced Pages, but in everyday life), you will never hear a word from me questioning, that these cities are anything but Polish. IMO the times of moving the borders in Central Europe are fortunately over.
You will find my e-mail address on my web page (URL on my user page). Sorry for not stating it here, but I do not want to create more spam sources. I am looking forward to receiving your mail. -- Cordyph 15:37 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)


The user 80.213.*.* making all those changes to articles about Poland is identical to User:Heine, a rather new problem user. He appears to have few knowledge about history, but nonetheless he is quite active in stating that Polish cities are German cities under Polish occupation. In my opinion he is just a troll trying to make waves. Since he has no knowledge of what he is writing about, we should revert every edit by him without much ado. -- Cordyph 06:52, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The problem is that the Prussian Confederation article is not about the 20th century, but the history of Prussia. On the English Misplaced Pages, we use the names of cities as they were known AT THE TIME, not as they are known now. RickK 08:20, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm going to revert them every time. When we write an article about the Dutch colonial period in the United States, we call the city now called New York "New Amsterdam". When we talk about the Prussian Confederation, we call the cities what they were known TO THE PRUSSIANS. RickK 02:55, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Kaliningrad

See 1911 Encylopedia:

http://36.1911encyclopedia.org/K/KO/KONIGSBERG.htm

I am right. Hard to take the pill when your right :)

Silesian wars reloaded

Hi, I've called a vote to try to resolve the dispute on Talk:Silesia. I'd appreciate your input. Thanks. john 22:59, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Obviously the vote is not accepted by some contributors. The new mediation committee is not established yet, but I did not want to wait until January and asked Uncle Ed for help. If people agree, he will help finding a consense. I withdraw my back-off and will return to discussion about this article (but only, if there is an agreement to mediation by Ed). Since everything else has failed, I would consider it a good idea to go through the controversial points one by one - after discussing one issue for several days we should proceed with the next issue.
What we need now, is reasonable people to help introducing the arguments without name-callings and accusations. And when I think about reasonable people with knowledge of these issues, your name is coming to me. What do you think? Can we try together with Ed to tame the lions and write an article, that everyone around here agrees with?
Krzysztof said something that made me thinking: This is a problem of communication between Wikipedians not with the Silesia article. So probably we just need people who help the combattants to communicate. They must stop calling each other a vandal, demanding each other's ban, and blaming each other for distributing "blatant lies".
Is it possible to achieve this? I am not sure. Should we give it a try? If so, then add your name on Talk:Silesia#Offer of Mediation, and then we may see what we can do. -- Baldhur 20:38, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Oh, you already did. That's good ;-) -- Mirko

Okay, then your comments are definitely all good ideas of things to put into the Silesia article, if we can ever finish this edit war and get it unprotected. john 04:01, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, I always read nowadays, that Poles are offended due to the usage of German city names. The style of discussion is often reaching a pitiably low level. Today I read two comments, one of them saying "your beloved Reich", the other one "ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Nico". It is somewhat offensive for me as well, even if I am not the target of these attacks. There is an equalisation of Germans and Nazis all over this place, that I can not understand. Of course this is not your fault. I just wanted to express my regret about this development. Or am I wrong, and it has always been like that? -- Baldhur 20:31, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I just wanted to apologize here for any harshness in the tone of my replies on Talk:Gdansk. I have been rather impolite, and have made some obliquely ad hominem attacks, and I greatly regret that. There's no need for things to become uncivil. I do continue to strongly believe that Gdansk ought to be referred to as Danzig for the period before 1945, and I assume you will continue to feel otherwise, but there's no need to get rude about it (and I think I've been worse on that count). As far as the substantive issue, I was wondering: is your position simply that all cities ought to be referred to by their contemporary names in discussing them throughout their history? I think that might be a defensible position, but I do not think that this is the current Misplaced Pages policy, which is to refer to things by the name most commonly used in English. (also, as I asked, I believe, szopen somewhere else, would you approve of discussions of the 900 day siege of St. Petersburg?) Or is your position that, in English today, Gdansk is more frequently used to refer to the city before 1945 than Danzig? I think this is substantively false (although this could certainly change, and were it to do so, I would agree that wikipedia should change the name). john 21:29, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


Hi Space, what do you think how we should proceed on the Silesia talk page. I noticed, that there has been little traffic in the last days. The current version of the article is obviously not accepted, and we do not have another version. I would be pleased, if you could give your feedback on Talk:Silesia (above the "Silesia (moderated) always has the consensus version" line). Or, if you want to e-mail me, you may do so. In case that you don't have my address anymore, it is mt AT mirko HYPHEN thiessen DOT de. A similar message goes to Szopen, Kpjas, Nico and Matusz. -- Baldhur 17:30, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)


Please tell me why the article dealing with the German city of Cologne mention the Polish name in the introduction, while you feel it is not acceptable to mention the German name of Warsaw. In my opinion, the German name is more relevant in the Warsaw article, than the Polish is in the Cologne article. Nico 03:54, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Royal and Ducal Prussia images

Hi, I've changed your image on Ducal Prussia to the one from Royal Prussia: this because they are very similar, and the latter is the better. Also see Talk:Ducal Prussia. If you believe this is in error, I apologize. — Jor 14:37, Jan 13, 2004 (UTC)


I have posted a response to your message on Talk:Gdansk, and wanted to make sure you saw it. Thanks, Jwrosenzweig 20:01, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Unless Fahrenheit and his family called it Gdansk, it should stay as Danzig. RickK 02:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

And what's your source for this "extermination"? I have Old-Prussian ancestors myself, and I do not feel myself a victim of such a genocide or extermination. They simply became German. Of course people were killed by the order, but that is as it is in history. Would you call the American actions in Iraq or the crusades "genocide"? Nico 14:37, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)


Would You call planned mass extermination of Jews during WW II - Germanization?
And then, there are many Jewish holocaust deniers. World is a twisted place.
Space Cadet 15:36, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)


The comparison is ridiculous. And you know it. Nico 15:41, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)


Can't say that I do. It's actually a very good analogy, despite huge differences in the historical era. But like I said, there will always be people who deny the most obvious.
Changing the subject: since you are the omly one questioning genocide/extermination, how about coming up with some sources for "Germanization". Not from some XIX century (or XIV century, for that matter)historian and not from some Landsmannschaft site, though, please!
Truly,
Cadet


And what's wrong with XIX century historians? Nico 16:03, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)


The same as with XIX century physicists, chemists, linguists, archeologists etc. Newtonian mechanics, although taught to this day in high schools, cannot explain high speed phenomena, spacetime curvature or twin paradox. Phlogiston theory although charming, loses to the oxidation as explanation of combustion. Vis Vitalis theory stating that no organic compound can be synthesised from non-organic matter outside of living organisms is a joke since the synthesis of uric acid. And so on and so forth. Science constantly moves forward, verifies and rewrites itself. While the Pythagorean theorem survived millenia, other "canons of knowledge" cannot survive half a decade. The number of resources available to scientists increased unimaginably since XIX century. Also science became more independent from the political indoctrination. The so called "scientific method" crystallized into a very well defined process.
Do you consider yourself an educated, well read person (as I always considered you to be)? Because if don't, then what are you doing at an encyclopedia? Making waves? Excercising shock value?
But at least I'm happy you don't question my request not to use Landsmannschaft sites. Theoretically, you could've asked what's wrong with them, too. After all, you made reference to them several times in various articles.
Hopefully, I was able to clarify some issues troubling you. Count on that always!
Sincerely,
Space Cadet


As you may have noticed, I have nothing against the Landmannschaften. But I don't think they in this particular case are more relevant as historical sources than, say, CDU, SPD, Labour or any political party or organisation.

And I still think genocide and extermination are not the right words when dealing with the issues of the Teutonic Knights and the Baltic Prussians or similar cases in history. Nico 19:17, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)


And that's your opinion, which I respect. Whether it belongs in an encyclopedia, is a different issue however.
Space


"Polish nationalism," I would say, is not equivalent to Nazism. I hope you would agree. Further, you'll note that I've reverted edits by Nico as well. For instance, I reverted his attempt to add POV and irrelevant material about "genocide of the Prussian people" after World War II from Otto Braun. john 15:51, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)


- Hi, Nico! It's your old friend Space. I see You've been getting yourself into some revert wars, again. Now, now, Nico. It's OK! You're just a visitor from a parallel universe, with one of those "alternative histories" and you're going through a shock. You hopelesly try to change this world into your own and it's causing you pain. If you just give yourself a chance and try to adjust your perception to the "local" reality, we will all be here for you. Lots of love, dear Nico!Space Cadet 19:06, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC) - ------------

population transfer

Can you understand how your preference for the therm population transfer instead of ethnic cleansing may be considered offensive by the persons affected (and, secondarily, by their younger relatives)?

Is your ambition to provoke people into supporting Nico?
--Ruhrjung 17:22, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

No I don't understand. My own mother and her whole family were victims of your "ethnic cleansing" and to me or my mom the term population transfer MAY NOT be considered offensive. Ethnic cleansing took place during WW II. Population transfer was a best way they could think of, after the war, to avoid another ethnic cleansing in the future.

My ambition is to use common sense, follow my conscience and be very self critical.
Regards
Space Cadet 17:51, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

May I ask if you consider ethnic cleansing to be synonymous with population transfer? If not, what's the difference? From what you write above, one could get the impression that transfer was done by you and cleansing by your adversaries. Then it would boil down to the question whether "you" or "your adversaries" were to be granted right of expression on wikipedia.

Anyway, I got an answer on my question. You do not understand that you might be perceived as offensive. I'll have to think over that.

(BTW, you're obviously my elder. My mother was born after the war. My great-aunt, however, worked in Wroclaw (as we know, then called Breslau) til the end. She basically refuses to speak of the last years of the war, and the rest of the 1940s, but I believe her view to be that ethnic Germans, particularly on the countryside, were subjects of terror aimed at forcing them to leave "volountarily", and that this in most cases had nothing with the individuals' prior actions to do, but solely with their ethnicity.)
--Ruhrjung 18:08, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

inviting a wider group of wikipedians?

Have you noted my question at Talk:Expulsion of Germans after World War II?
--Ruhrjung 19:49, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Mediation

You have been invited to join in mediation regarding placenames in Central Europe. Please accept or decline this request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation# English/Polish/German/Nazi names of the Polish cities . You may also indicate who, if anybody, you would like to act as your representative if you do not want to participate personally, as well as your preferences regarding the choice of mediator. Tuf-Kat 23:18, Mar 17, 2004 (UTC)

Please see: User:Ed_Poor/Mediation. Ruhrjung 23:36, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Polish Cities Stuff

Space Cadet, I agree with you that Nico can be very obnoxious in his POV pushing. And I agree with you that we shouldn't be putting this debate in terms of "pro-Polish" vs. "pro-German" contributors. I certainly don't feel myself to be pro-German, and I've argued against some occasional POV pushing by Nico, as well as someone or other's attempts to get Szczecin referred to as "Stettin" throughout it's history in the article on that city. On the other hand, I think it's disingenuous to call it absurd to "refer to cities by different names throughout history." As I've asked you before, are we to refer to the 900 Day Siege of St. Petersburg and how the battle of Volgograd turned the tide in the Second World War? I realize the situation is not exactly analogous, but once you agree that those cities have to be called by different names at different times in their history, I'm not sure why it's any odder to do the same for Gdansk. Among other things, it's highly confusing to discuss how the inhabitants of the "Free City of Gdansk" wanted to be part of Germany, or whatever. john 01:38, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Space Cadet, following Mestwin's link to that picture of the Nazi Danzig ist Deutsch poster, you asked if he'd received it from me or Nico. I found that rather offensive, but I accept your apology that you did not intend to call me a Nazi. As to whether I've accidentally used Nazi propaganda, I've no real idea, but of course one must note that just because the Nazis said something doesn't necessarily mean it was untrue (although I find it hard to think of any good examples on that score...) But I certainly don't intend to suggest that Eastern Europe is rightfully German, and that we all ought to continue to use German names for cities, or anything like that. The crux of my arguments has never been about whether Danzig war Deutsch at any particular time, but what English-language sources call the city at different periods, which I don't think depends on any arguments over the ethnic composition of central Europe. john 03:17, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Mediation

Have I worded your desires correctly at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation? (i.e. do you want Gdansk to act as your representative?) Do you have any qualms about Ed Poor mediating? Tuf-Kat 20:04, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)

Oops. I got you and User:Yeti mixed up. Since you also specifically requested Ed, I assume you are ready for mediation to begin, and you can disregard this entire message. Tuf-Kat 20:06, Mar 25, 2004

(UTC)

Dawn_of_German_East

I am preparing the new article, dealing with the whole process User_talk:Cautious/Dawn_of_German_East, while Expulsion of Germans after World War II should remain the description of one of the phases of the process.

Please contribute your comments. Cautious 07:50, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)


Stop losing time for Free City of Danzig. Such usage of Danzig is acceptable from historical point of view. There are more interesting things. For example: Prussian people, Polish Corridor, Dawn of German East and a few other. Look for contributions by User:Wighson.Yeti 21:42, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)


Actually, I do not know Danzig was "Gdansk". It has been Danzig for at least 600 years, and it was surely Danzig at Schlüter's time. Do you use your own private names? The Britannica uses Danzig . So please stop trolling. Anyway, you reverted the page four times, which is not allowed (see ). If you do that again you may be banned. Consider yourself warned. Nico 20:22, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)


I never dare to BARK ORDERS AT YOU. I do not understand yor attack. ByeYeti 14:00, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Andreas Schluter

Space Cadet, i AM going to report you as vandal. 1) I revert on Andreas Schluter page because people are simply ignoring the discussion with was on talk page 2) Second, i haven't call you moron, while you are calling me names instead of choosing to discuss on talk page. Szopen

1) I'm not ignoring any discussion. I digested it and expressed my opinion on the Talk page like you wanted 2) I would never dare calling you a moron! "Palancie" is just Warsaw-style friendly irony regarding the ridiculous inconsistency of your reasoning. You say that the guy surely knew the city as Danzig, but at the same time you forget that in that case he also knew Frombork as Frauenburg!
Let me take a wild guess here: you are not from Warsaw, are you? I once knew a "Poznaniak" from Leszno. "Ordnung muss sein!" on the outside and total inconsistency, chaos and anal retentivity on the inside. Just like YOU! He also liked snitching on his friends and acquaintaces. Pozdrowienia! Cadet

Space Cadet, My opinion on the naming of the city is expressed on Uncle Ed's talk page in mediation paragraph. In short, let us remember that this is English wikipedia; therefore we should names that are meaningful to Englishmen _plus_ names which would help them to find further information. From all discussion on talk:Gdansk page it is clear, that "Danzig" is still widely used in English, even if the using is slowly disappearing. Therefore Danzig/Gdansk may be considered two alternative names in English. This is not the case in Frombork: while Danzig/Gdansk is city quite known, Frombork is virtually unknown, therefore there is no need for alternative name.

Also, there was no edit war over using of Frombork/Frauenberg, but Danzig/Gdansk.

If the "palant" in Warsaw is friendly way to express irony, no wonder Warszawiaks are so disliked in Poznan. In Poznan "palant" is HIGHLY offensive. Szopen

Kosmonauto pieszy, nie jestem jakims hiphopowcem zebys mnie tykal jakims ziomalem.

Jeszcze raz, po polsku, zebys zrozumial.

To jest angielska encyklopedia, nie osrodek edukacji Jana Kowalskiego. Anglicy powszechnie uzywaja nazwy "Danzig", czy nam sie to podoba czy nie, jako nazwy alternatywnej w stosunku do historii Gdanska. W kazdym cholernym artykule z NYT (a to nie sa przecietni Joe Blow'owie) w ktorym wspomina sie hsitoryczny GDansk, uzywa sie nazwy Danzig. Tak wiec forma Danzig/Gdansk albo Danzig (Gdansk) jest rozsadnym kompromisem ktory a) pozwala zrozumiec przecietnemu czlowiekowi gdzie to jest b) edukuje go, ze Danzig i Gdansk to to samo miejsce. Jak widze jednak, dla Ciebie jedyny mozliwy kompromis to totalna kapitulacja jednej z opcji i pokorne pochylenie glow przez Twoja opinia. Szopen

So here it is in English. Where there is self contradiction and incosistency and where are personal attack on you. Show me concrete sentences, Space Cadet. Space Cadet, i'm not a hiphop-fan to let you "fingering" me with some "ziomal". Once again, In Polish, so you would understand. This is English encyclopedia, not education centre of John Doe. Englishmen are widely using "Danzig" no matter if we liked it or not, as alternative name when talking about history of Gdansk. In every damn article in NYT (and those are not average Joe Blows) in which historical Gdansk is mentioned, there is name "Danzis". So form Danzig/Gdansk is reasonable compromise, which helkp average man to a) understand where it is b) and it's educating him that Gdansk and Danzig are the same place. As i see, for you however compromise means total capitulation of one side and humble bowing down before your opinion." Szopen

Are you lying on purpose, Space Cadet, or you are not checking your emails??

From: "Arkadiusz Danilecki" <adanilecki@cs.put.poznan.pl> To: <spacecadet123@inorbit.com> Subject: Misplaced Pages Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:34 +0200

(the points 4), starting with "4) Napisales, ze Twoje stanowisko jest zgodne z kompromisem, co nie jest prawda ..." and 6th starting with "6) Nie mozna sie obrazac na rzeczywistosc..."

You asked for private letter, i've send it. Where is your answer? I understand, that soemone may not answer immedietely (I personally check wikipedia sometimes ocne a week, sometimes even less often). Szopen


Sheesh indeed. I seem to have hit one of those little caching problems that sometimes give me false diffs. Or maybe I really did revert the change you made during a minor revert war, without properly looking at it because your comment msde the clear (though not, as it turns out, accurate) statement that you were continuing Emax's campaign. Anyway, I erred there. I'll be more careful in the future, as no doubt you'll be more specific in submission comments. I still don't see why we'd settle the contents of Misplaced Pages by following Britannica, if that's what the comment meant. Dandrake 06:55, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

Then look again

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Erika_Steinbach&diff=0&oldid=3681741
--Ruhrjung 01:02, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

image in need of cropping

Historical lands and provinces in Central Europe

Hi!

It seems as if your map has a blank space to the right. I don't have software to fix that, and besides, probably it would be more polite to ask you, the autor, to do it. Regards! /Tuomas 08:19, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Thank you for noticing and letting me know. However, could you be just a litle more specific as far as where the spot is. I can't see it. I'll be happy to fix it expediciously. Space Cadet 01:11, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Look at the framed thumbnail. Approximately 20% of the picture on the right side is white, which plausibly can be explained by the original picture having an opaque area in the right side. /Tuomas 06:48, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
...oh, I see, you HAVE fixed it! /Tuomas 08:17, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hi,

Can you have a look into the articles edited by User:Irredenta: Vilnius, Gabriel Fahrenheit, Johann Reinhold Forster, Georg Forster. Regards.Yeti 10:27, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Vilnius/Gdansk and other naming conventions

I just wanted to nfrom you that I have read Gdansk discussions earlier and there is nothing to add here - there are all good arguments known to me and it is strange how some people ignore those arguments. So, I have nothing to add there, but if there will be soem voting or something like that, I will support usage of current English name thoughout the article, no matter that is the article - Gdansk, Vilnius, Szczecin or anything else. It is natural usage in most languages and English is not an exception. Knutux 04:06, 2004 Jul 17 (UTC)

Naming issues

I have made a proposition in Talk:Gdansk/Naming convention#Other_concepts. In short, it's sing most controversial names when first name appears in artcile and making a msg saying that the names are controversial and pointing to article explaining why. Please, contribute your opinion.Szopen 10:50, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)


What about automatic reverting of ALL edits by Burs...-something untill he will start to discuss his edits?Yeti 21:43, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Edits by PolishPolicians, SpaceCadet and Yeti on topics concerning German names unfortunately needs to be reverted in most cases. "Automatically", if you want. Burschenschafter

logic, consistency etc.

Oh, are you saying that Poles (=Polish speakers which considered themselves to be Poles) born inside Germany, Austria or Russia before the Polish state was created after WWI were not Poles at all, but Germans, Austrians and Russians? Burschenschafter

And the same applies to Czechs, sorry, I mean Austrians? Burschenschafter

There is a big difference between German families immigrating out of Germany, for generations living outside of Germany and Polish people, whose country has been invaded and partitioned, I mean robbed and stolen.Space Cadet 23:06, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Re: block

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a group hearing. I guess arbitration is like that, but before you get there, you do need to follow the dispute resolution process. Perhaps requesting mediation might be a good idea. This way, you could have a third party (someone on the Mediation Committee) to help you and RickK discuss this issue. Angela. 03:02, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)

Why did you revert my answer to Burschenschafter?

Because you updated his User page, which is against all rules. Why am I reverting you? Because you insist on placing Polish nationalist propaganda on every page you touch. As you are repeatedly told, and which you repeatedly ignore, this is the English Misplaced Pages, not the Polish Misplaced Pages, and we WILL use English language versions of all city names. Those names are Danzig, Thorn, Elbing, etc. You can get away with discussing them in Polish terms when discussing modern Polish places, but when you keep reverting historical references to Germans in a German environment in the PAST, you will be reverted. RickK 21:46, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)

Who are you?

I have tried to figure you out man, and from what I can gather you are one confused dude. You claim that I'm a Polish nationalist, but it seems that more than one person on here thinks that of you. They also seem to think you are a commie and a nazi (I must admitt I don't know what to believe). If this is some sort of attempt at irony, its lost on me. If you want to mess with ppl on here for shits and giggles thats fine. I just want to know for future reference, whats your deal? Katarzyna 02:13, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Naming wars

Since you were either directly or indirectly once involved into edits revolving around "proper" naming of cities like Gdansk/Danzig etc i thought you may be interested in my proposition in User:Szopen/NamingWar. I would want to create a way aimed at stopping the revert wars in future - through creating something like a msg (in see also list or header) explaining that's there is compromise and why, and by linking to the article explaining changes of the statuses of the Royal Prussia province (I would prefer it ot have it as separate article, not scatter it in plethora other articles). I would be happy to hear from you. Szopen 09:20, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Please don't revert without explanation. What is your problem on Pila? Gzornenplatz 02:40, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

Please explain your edits, or I have to ask for arbitration. Gzornenplatz 02:00, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)

hi caddie

if you continue with your actions, we will have to separate the articles. One article Danzig which deals with the city before 1945/46 and one article Gdansk which deals with the city after 1946. How about that? Burschenschafter

How about serprate the WIKIPEDIAs. One that deals with the real world and one that deals with yours? SC

Dear Space Cadet,

the Wikipedias are already separated. The People's Republic of Poland version, dealing with your world, are found here: http://pl.wikipedia.org/

Viele Grüße -- Burschenschafter 18:43, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Dear Nico,
People Republic of Poland doesn't exist for over 14 years, 11 before foundation of WIKIPEDIA. And how would you know which world the Polish WIKI is dealing with if you don't know the language? Why don't you write a book describing your alternate history - where Gdansk was never Polish before 1945, where all Polish kings were German and didn't even speak Polish, etc. - it could be fascinating, and you would be able to really unleash your imagination, instead of just quoting XIX century Prussian "historians", the way you do here. Your friend, SC

Licensing info for maps

For this Image:Hist_central_europe.JPG may I please know what license it is under? Public domain, GFDL, etc? I'm asking because maps tends to be generally nicer with a PNG format, and I was thinking of turning this into a png and reuploading it cleaned-up. Please let me know. Aris Katsaris 15:51, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Posna

AFAIK the term Posna was an ancient English name, not German. ] 07:04, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

Rzeszów

Co miałeś na myśli przez Removed chauvinism przy zamianie transkrypcji Zheshuv na Zheshov ()? Obawiam się że nie zrozumiałem... ] 02:01, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)

I knew it's high time I got some sleep... ] 02:24, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)

Your User Page

Nice picture, although I don't believe it's yours. What's with the "Lovers of Ducal Prussia Club"?Rübezahl 20:44, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Why don't you believe it's him? What do Space Cadets look like in Germany then? :D ] 22:15, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)

I just didn't know YOUR Space Cadets look exactly like OURS. Rübezahl 22:47, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Typical. Just because we don't live in the West does not mean that our Space Cadets have green skin and fur caps. ]

But seriously now: I was simply expecting someone more Slavio-Germano-Baltic and less Semito-Chamitic. That's all. Rübezahl 02:45, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ziemie w Prusiech

Mały prezencik, Prusaku jeden :)

Image:Royal Ducal.png

--] 10:57, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

How come it didn't go in? ] 14:29, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
Bah, now I understand. All you have to do is go to the image page and hit Ctrl+R to reload the page. It works for me, should work for you as well. Let me know if it worked; if it didn't I'll simply send you the image via mail. Also, did you prepare the original image yourself? If so, what is the license? Żydokomuchomasonorojalista z Kabat

Well hello, I am the last Romanov... Im not quite sure how this words yet, please someone fill me in with the info plz... hok.. so I was gonna ask, can someone tell me how the whole Danzig and East Prussian Coridor issue led to WW2. aight ill stfu now thank you

Sługa uniżony. Jeśli będziesz przygotowywał jakieś inne mapki a chcesz je utrzymać w tym stylu - podeślij mi je, nie będziemy sobie dublować roboty. płk. Ryba-Nadbrzeżny

Katowice

You may want to look at Talk:Katowice. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 10:00, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And, if you want to have a good laugh, at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/RickK. ] 14:12, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

Zaślubiny z morzem

Zmien wedlug Twego uznania :)--Emax 05:44, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Gallery

I magnanimously accept your invitation :D A żeby Ci się łącze zatkało, to mniejszych nie robią? ;) Choć z drugiej strony jak daję negatywy do skanowania to jotpegi przychodzą dużo większe. Ostatnio po 14 mega każdy... A tak na serio - na pewno się zdjęcia przydadzą, tylko trzeba je będzie pomniejszyć nieco. Pobawię się GIMPem jutro lub pojutrze i podeślę Ci linka. --Pozdrawiam ] 01:13, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Misplaced Pages's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to ] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2
I agree to ] all my contributions to any ], county, or city article as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Warsaw dialect

Czołem, Rychu. Jako że swój kizior jesteś i to z Woly, pogapuj na Warsaw dialect. Namachałem się przy tem nielicho, ale ciekawostka fest wyszła. Może cuś dodasz od siebie? ] 23:27, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)


Lucas David

I am trying to broker a compromise on this article. Please come to talk:Lucas David and comment on my suggestions.-gadfium (talk) 21:40, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Słuchaj, no tego to się nie spodziewałem... na tej stronie w moją stronę rączo poszybowała uwaga o polskich panach i tym, że powinni zostawić Świętą Ruś w spokoju... I sam już doprawdy nie wiem: śmiać się czy płakać? ] 08:05, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)

Prosba

Mam prosbe, moglbys zaglosowac za zatrzymaniem szablonu marszalkow? http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Marshals--Emax 15:20, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)

dzieki, moglbys jeszcze dac autograf pod http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Sejm_Marshals ?--Emax 20:44, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)

Moglbys dac rv na Michael I of Russia i Vasili IV of Russia mi sie juz powoli koncza monety ;)--Emax 07:54, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)

Silent reverts

Please explain why you are engaging in silent revert war over a number of articles on Russian/Polish history. Do you have any difficulty using Edit summary and Talk pages? --Gene s 08:33, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Read Your own Talk page before you start flaming and freaking out on people. And generally - try to calm down.. I read my own page. I even replied there. Did you read it? You still refuse to discuss the issue. Here goes you reply which really fails to mention anything meaningful except your lack of coins:

I engage in reverts of incorrect information, because and only when I truly believe it is incorrect. Sometimes I have a difficulty using Talk pages (when I run out of coins in an internet cafe) and sometimes I forget the edit summaries. Mea Culpa. Space Cadet 08:42, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You refusal to discuss the changes is abuse of wiki process. Lack of coins is not a good excuse. If you continue to revert pages silently, I will bring this issue up for arbitration. You can be banned from editing Wiki for such abuse. --Gene s 08:47, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Revert

Do not disguise a sweeping reversion and the removal of a neutrality dispute heading as "reverting vandalism." That's the kind of behavior that'll get you blocked. 172 21:54, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Your revert even removed a huge chunk of text toward the bottom of the article by the main author. Please clean up your mess. 172 22:07, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)


== Luckily == (Comment moved here, because of Emax rev. on User SC) Luckily SC is still around (despite often unfortunate Emax-like behavior).


User pages

Please do not edit other peoples user pages, comments go on talk pages. Thanks -- Chris 73 Talk 22:51, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

Say that to your friend Kurfurst...--Emax 23:08, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

Apologies

Hi. Sorry for calling you a mxxxx. That wasn't proper etiquette. Basically, it was your Liebchen comment that made me think so. Maybe you could also apologize to User:24.7.179.169 for that? Now that would be nice. -- Chris 73 Talk 03:48, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

No you made me curious: why doesn't he have a login? From what i have seen, he seems to be a sensible editor (ignoring disputed polish related edits for a moment). -- Chris 73 Talk 05:02, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)
About Halibut for Admin
I don't know him well enough yet. But, i just supported User:Piotrus current adminship, if that helps. He seems to be quite level headed with respect to polish matters. -- Chris 73 Talk 05:17, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

Free City of Danzig

Raczej Free City of Danzig.

Po pierwsze w czasach jego istnienia funkcjonowało takie pojęcie.

Po drugie powołam się na Normana Daviesa. Nie pisze on wprawdzie o gdansku, ale o Lwowie i kwestii nazw miast na terytorium Europy Środkowo-Wschodniej. Pisze, że "Anglosas może popaść w absolutną rozpacz, gdy się okaże, że w każdym przypadku ma do czynienia z 2, 3, 4, a nawet 5 wariantami...".

Boże Igrzysko, tom. 2, s. 966, wyd. polskie (5), 2004

Pozdrawiam

Niki K 20:15, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Arthur Schopenhauer

Hi. You may have noticed that Arthur Schopenhauer is currently protected. This is so that a discussion can be worked out on the talk page. As you are one of the involved parties in the previous dispute, you are very welcome to join the discussion, hopefully we can come to a solution, so there is no continuation of the edit war. -- Chris 73 Talk 03:56, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

Troche skomentowalem ta jego wersje, krysia nie jest zbyt bystra z tego co zauwazylem - ogolnie to chyba niema pojecia o czym pisze, tylko powoluje sie na komentarze innych. Moglbys wrzucic monete na , dzieki--Emax 02:31, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)



Vote on Talk:Gdansk/Vote

Hi. Since you have edited on pages with disputes about the names of Polish/German locations, I would invite you to vote on Talk:Gdansk/Vote to settle the multi-year dozens-of-pages dispute about the naming of Gdansk/Danzig and other locations. The vote has two parts, one with questions when to use Gdansk/Danzig, and a second part affecting articles related to locations with Polish/German history in general. An enforcement is also voted on. The vote has a total of 10 questions to vote on, and ends in two weeks on Friday, March 4 0:00. Thank you -- Chris 73 Talk 11:40, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

Kosmonauto, Ojczyzna w potrzebie! Halibutt 13:08, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Oliwa rv

Nie sadzisz, ze troche przesadzasz ? Wiekszosc linkow ktore usuwasz wygladaja na przydatne... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 11:20, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Voting Warschau/Warsaw

Hi. Since you have edited on pages with disputes about the names of German/polish locations, I would invite you to vote on Warsaw/Vote to settle the multi-year dozends-of-pages dispute about the naming of Warschau/Warsaw and other locations.--Schlesier 08:50, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

effected and affected

I can see how a country may be effected, but in what way are they affected? Philip Baird Shearer 01:26, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Erika Steinbach

Hi. According to the vote about the naming of gdansk (see Talk:Gdansk/Vote):

  • The naming of many places in the region that share a history between Germany and Poland are also a source of edit wars. For these places, the first reference of one name should also include a reference to other commonly used names, e.g. Stettin (now Szczecin, Poland) or Szczecin (Stettin). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises.
  • In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdansk) and later Danzig exclusively. In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdansk (Danzig) and later Gdansk exclusively. Persons controversial follow the guidelines according to the applicable period as decided above. Similar applies to other place names in the region that shares a history between Poland and Germany.

Please leave the additional german names in the biographic article of a german. Thanks -- Chris 73 Talk 08:18, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

VfD: Nazi or German Occupation?

Check this VfD vote: --Ttyre 19:24, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

No Prussia no problem

Ktos Ci zmienil zdjecie i zamienil napis na "Poland".--Witkacy 00:59, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Za walke o sprawiedliwosc i rany ktore poniosles w walce (ban)  ;)--Witkacy 23:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Image:Space Cadet.JPG

Image deletion warning Image:Space Cadet.JPG has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.

Royal Prussia

Hi, thanks for the correction. I {naively) assumed that Royal Prussia was the same thing as the Kingdom of Prussia, and I see it's not. I'll correct my comment at Talk:Amber. Noel (talk) 21:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I just saw your change at Amber Room. Since the craftsmen in question are ethnic Germans, I think it's reasonable to prefer the Danzig variant of the name, as that's what they presumably called it. Also, according to Talk:Gdansk/Vote, that city is to be referred to as Danzig "between 1308 and 1945" - i.e. at the time we are speaking of in this article. So I put back the Danzig, but left a note that it's now called Gdansk. Noel (talk) 22:14, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There is a debate ongoing about whether this was counted correctly. Nevertheless, it currently stands as policy, so please leave the name as called for by current policy. If you keep reverting it, I will cite you for a 3RR violation. Noel (talk) 22:59, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
PS: Your sarcastic crack about "who have not seen Germany for generations" is demonstrably wrong, since they were working in Berlin when the worked on the Amber Room. Noel (talk) 23:18, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Gdansk/Vote says "The following rules apply in the case of disputes" (my emphasis). If you keep acting like it doesn't apply, you will discover that it does. Noel (talk) 02:28, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Zivinbudas

Hi, I see User:Zivinbudas has come back (see User_talk:Jnc#Piotrus broke 3RR rule), so you now have someone you can have as many nice Polish nationalistic edit wars as you want with! I had blocked him previously, but I think it's best if I don't do so any more. In addition to his login ID, he uses lots of anons, so it's a bit hard to keep track of all the places he's reverting, but they include Balts, Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Vilnius. Enjoy! Noel (talk) 19:10, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Gdansk/Danzig

Because many maps I see currently still include "Gdansk" (Danzig), or "Szczecin" (Stettin), I would support the way the latter page presently operates. Szczecin is the article name, and a search on the one time German name of Stettin redirects to Szczecin. What I would REALLY like to see, but doubt this is likely, is the adoption of an official standard, either using maps and English placenames from the National Geographic Society (USA) or the Royal Geographic Society (UK), and have a system of giving the name on the printed map first (such as Gdansk or Szczecin) and other names of historical interest in the article. So for the case of Dresden, I only see a case for alternate names within a "History of Dresden" section, NOT in the opening paragraph. It is NOW a German city, and on my map it comes up as Dresden. Neither Encarta nor Britannica (online editions) mention any name other than Dresden, but that shouldn't stop us! Again, there's no reason another city name shouldn't or couldn't be listed in the history of the city, but I wouldn't expect to find the Dutch being militant over Niew Amsterdam (the original name of New York City)! Sorry if this rambles, but I hope it helps clarify my position. --JohnDBuell | Talk 01:54, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Kiev

from article edit history
Read the talk pages, Space Cadet!
I did twice, so? You have the Russian name, so you should have the Polish name, as well!

Reasons why we have a ru name and not a pl name is specifically discussed at the Talk:Kiev#Kij.F3w_in_Kiev_article. Please care to respond before reverting. -Irpen 03:20, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

you wrote: Delete the unnecessary Russian name and none of my homies will bother you no more.
I repeat, the issue of the Russian name being necessary or unnecessary is discussed at the ref above. If you have anything to say about this, please respond there before bringing havoc to the article. There is a bunch of reasonable people there and if you make a good case, the PL name may get through. The arguments at the level "if RU, then PL" without explanation and response to the points already raised there are unhelpful. -Irpen 03:44, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

you wrote: Stop the exadge! As if mentioning Kijów brought an actual "havoc" to anything! Shyaa...riiight! Logically if Danzig belongs in the Gdansk article, then Kijów belongs in Kiev! Unless you agree with the Britannica convention: current English name throughout, native name bolded in the first sentence, nothing else, unless in the "history" section. In the above case, however, help in getting rid of German names from Gdansk, Szczecin and Wroclaw articles. Your support of logic and common sense will be appreciated. Sincerely, Space Cadet 04:06, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Hey, what you are doing is exactly a WP:Point: "If Kiev than Kijow" and the opposite: "Will remove Kijow in you remove Kiev" and then too "If Danzig, than Kijow". Please note from the WP:Point page "If you must..." section:

If after reading this you are still adamant in your desire to pursue a campaign of illustrative editing to demonstrate your point (as you might if your attempts at reasoned discussion have failed), please do so in a responsible fashion that minimizes the ill effects of your campaign. Bear in mind these key points:

  • Think through your edits for a while before enacting them. If applicable, wait until you're sober.
  • Stop your campaign once your point is made. Don't engage in an edit war to save content you added for rhetorical reasons. People can still see what you did in the page history, and you can link to an old version of the page if you wish to draw attention to it from a talk page.
  • Clean up after yourself, reverting content and listing pages for deletion as necessary once you're done making your point.
  • Like leaving a restaurant without tipping in societies where tipping is customary, doing this often makes it clear that you're a boor.

I don't want to revert for now. I think you should cleanup after you tried to make a point. And, BTW, you didn't have to because you can very well attempt "a reasoned discussion" as the guideline suggest! Once again, I invite you to respond at the talk:Kiev if you have anything to they on the issue itself. -Irpen 04:16, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

you wrote: Dear Irpen, I'm not on any campaign per se, except of course the "campaign for logic, consistency and justice for all". Your "sobriety" remark was very rude. Your consistent ignoring of my point, only a little annoying. Tell me what you think about the way Britannica handles those issues. Space Cadet 04:40, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The advise above was a quote from the WP guidelines WP:Point directly applicable here, and of course I have no reason to think that you were literally not sober. It was part of the phrase: "Think through your edits for a while..." Read the whole thing again if you please.

I am not ignoring your point? I am trying to convinse you to express it clearly at the talk:Kiev page. I have no opinion on Britannica's policy. I would like to stick to the issue at hand which is: (1) should the Kiev article have a RU name in the first line, and (2) should it have the PL name there, or is the RU name alone a sufficient reason for a PL name, or whether the German/Polish naming dispute somehow affects how the Kiev article should look like. If you have anything to say about those issues, please use the talk:Kiev page. Several people, including user:Witkacy, wrote there. You choose to ignore the talk page and simply revert. The justification you give, your quote: "if Danzig belongs in the Gdansk article, then Kijów belongs in Kiev!" and "Delete the unnecessary Russian name and none of my homies will bother you" clearly shows that this is a WP:Point issue. If making a point re the Russian name and an unrelated Gdansk issues is only part of your reasons, please state the rest of at the talk page in response to what's already said there. I am only calling on you reverting your editing yourself if you are motivated solely by WP:Point-like reasons. I have no problem to discuss the issue itself. I hope you will agree to stop this revert war. If you please help improving the Polish section of Kiev history I would really appreciate that. -Irpen 06:30, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Just a small point of order: Britannica does mention multiple names. Please take a look at, for example: Szczecin, Vilnius, Kiev etc.
Also, since you are engaged in many edit wars over city names, I wonder if you could comment on the ideas discussed in Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions/Vote on city naming. Since so many of these edit wars are really fought on the basis: "I have to include name A in B, since name C is included in D" and various other variations, we are trying to develop a uniform standard for including names, which would hopefully keep everybody happy. If that is at all possible. Balcer 07:04, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Are you adding Kijow to the top of the article because you think it belongs there, or just because you're making a point about Gdansk/Danzig or some German names somewhere? If you have an issue with something in the article about Gdansk, deal with it there and don't cause trouble elsewhere. If you think this belongs in Kiev, then explain your edits at talk:Kiev before starting a revert war. Give us a reason to believe that you're not simply vandalizing the article to make a point. Michael Z. 2005-06-10 13:54 Z

Thanks again, I just posted a message at Talk:Kiev#a_Kij.F3w.2FKiev_end_note_.28hopefully.29. Regards, Irpen 02:29, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Danzig/Gdansk naming style

I almost didn't reply, since I'm a) rather annoyed by this stupid edit war, and b) not really very interested in this whole area anyway, but since you're making an attempt to try and discuss this, I will too.

I don't think there's any point in linking to both names, since "Danzig" is merely a redirect to "Gdansk". Just link to whichever comes first, and the one inside the parentheses (the alternate) should be non-linked; people will understand that both names lead to the same article. (Besides that, it's Misplaced Pages style to only link once to a given article from another).

Also, when you say "hid the fact that these people were born in Poland" (and also when you say "Danzig (now Gdansk, in Poland)"), I have a couple of comments. First, I have no idea where they were born, merely that they were working in Danzig when they were hired for the Amber Room project. Second, I really am dubious about this whole emphasis on nationality, because back then (circa 1700) people just didn't have the same sense of nationality that they do now. If you look at Nationalism#Evolution of nationalism, you'll see that it's very much a phenomenon of the 1800's and after. So I kind of doubt that they thought of themselves as Poles or Germans (well, there wasn't any Germany then - I guess it would be 'Prussians'). You're trying to project modern sensibilities on people who lived many centuries ago, and it just doesn't work that way. They just did not have the same sense of nationality that people today do.

I'm pretty much going to stay away from the Amber Room article anyway. I only edited it recently because someone took out entirely the mention of where they were from, and merely put that they were German (!). I have no interest in being part of this kind of mess. Noel (talk) 23:37, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Interested in an L.A.-area Wiki meetup?

It appears as though L.A. has never had a Wiki meetup. Would you be interested in attending such an event? If so, checkout User:Eric Shalov/Wikimeetup

- Eric 16:37, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


It's official! The first-ever L.A. Wiki Meetup will be occuring on July 25th, 2005. Are you coming? Would you like to help host? More details on the Meetup page. Be sure to check back regularly for updates! - Eric 30 June 2005 10:43 (UTC)

Mapki

Czołem! Chętnie zmieniłbym mapki do standardów mapek Rzeczypospolitej, ale musiałbym mieć jakieś oryginalne mapy jako podkładki (to jest mapy z prawdziwymi granicami, a nie orientacyjne). Poza tym, chwilowo nie mam w domu żadnego sprawnego komputera, więc rzecz całą odłożyć muszę ad acta. Halibutt 06:06, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

anti-Polonism

Vlepki

Swietne, zrob jeszcze jedna z Wilnem ;) Tak na marginesie fajny stateczek sobie zbudowales ;)--Witkacy 5 July 2005 13:57 (UTC)

Dzieki, przyda sie gdy bede mial zamiar odwiedzic rodzime strony ;)--Witkacy 5 July 2005 15:22 (UTC)

Piekna Helga

Ten anon to nasza piekna Helga - zaczalem zbierac jej IP, wiec jak cos to dodawaj :)--Witkacy 21:29, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Burszek i Nikos mieli inny styl pisania. Duzo krzyczeli, sporo sie pluli - Helga tylko od czasu do czasu cos mruknie o wandalizmie lub nacjonalizmie, poznaje ja po glosie.. ;) Kolejna sprawa, to od kiedy zaczalem do anona mowic po imieniu strasznie sie na mnie uwzial. To ten sam anon, ktory od znikniecia Helgi grasuje po eng. wiki i wandalizuje pl artykuly (wiecznie te same). Jestem na 99% pewny ze to ona. Dzisiaj przegiela palke, trzeba nazbierac troche wandalizujacych IP slodkiej Helgi i przedstawic sprawe dla szanownych operatorow, by cos z tym zrobili. Nakladajcie z Szopenem mundury i powracajcie na szersze pole bitwy ;)--Witkacy 00:44, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Polish exodus from Eastern Europe/Polish exodus from Kresy

To ciekawe, ze jest German exodus from Eastern Europe ale nie ma nic o przesiedleniach milionow Polakow z Kresow - wydaje mi sie, ze to twoja dzialka, moze napiszesz choc stuba? Tylko Niemcy maja swoj artykul, choc o wiele wiecej nacji migrowalo po IIWŚ (Human_migration#Post-World_War_II_Migrations). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 13:04, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Bo Niemcy sa bardzo pokrzywdzeni przez ta przykra 2 wojne swiatowa (wywolana przez nazistow - nie Niemcow), i musza wyrazic swoj smutek i zal wobec okrucienstwa Sowietow i Polakow.. :)--Witkacy 21:50, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Czy mogł byś

Krążownikiem podleciec pod Koperka, Łukaszka i Mirka ?--Witkacy 21:47, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Saski Park.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:Saski Park.JPG. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag, so its copyright status is therefore unclear. Please add a tag to let us know its copyright status. (If you created/took the picture then you can use {{gfdl}} to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use {{fairuse}}.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know on the image description page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Otherwise, see Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use. Thanks so much. Also, please add the image to an article. Misplaced Pages is not a collection of photographs with no encyclopedic context. Thanks again. --Nv8200p 17:27, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Recent Kaliningrad Oblast edits

Hello! There have been a number of recent extensive edits to the Kaliningrad Oblast article. The additions look to be in good faith, but I am not terribly familiar with the great amount of Lithuanian history presented now. I also am not sure if that article is the proper place for that content. You might be interested in taking a look at it. Olessi 21:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Dzieki

Za wyczyszczenie mojej strony dyskusyjnej z wypowiedzi hydraulika - wycofalem go z Twojej, wierze ze za Twoja aprobata :).--Witkacy 16:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Historical placename references

Many people are aware of the border changes in Europe in 1918 and 1945. Considerably less is aware of the earlier ones. A good way to prevent many well-meaning-but-uneducated "fixes" to the historical articles mentioning "German from time immemorial" cities is to write, e.g., "Oliwa, Kingdom of Poland", instead of "Oliwa, Poland". I hope you will find my suggestion useful. -- Naive cynic 06:18, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Zerknij

Jeśli możesz zerknij na Kulturkampf, Komisję Kolonizacyjną i inne artykuły o prześladowaniu Polaków w Niemczech, pojawił się nacjonalista niemiecki, który wandalizuje te artykuły. --Molobo 17:10, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Weltraumkadett

Jest jeszcze za jasno by wielkim "S" na niebie zasygnalizowac potrzebe Twojej pomocy, wiec robie to forma pisemna :). --Witkacy 18:05, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Fajnie ze sie pojawiles, ordnung muss sein - a ja z moja mala miotelka nie nadaze sprzatac po turystach z za odry :) (gdyby ktos mial jakies watpliwosci, mozesz usuwac z mojej strony dyskusyjnej co Ci sie podoba) :)--Witkacy 21:51, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Dzieki za odznake :), ale widze ze klaus i Ciebie chce zbanowac--Witkacy 11:32, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR

Hi. I have listed you on Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR for breaking the 3RR. Also, the double naming vote extends to places with a shared history, this would include Sztutowo (Stutthof). -- Chris 73 Talk 07:32, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Edit comment

Misusing that Pink Floyd song in the way you just did is a pure disgrace. And watch your language. Lupo 14:50, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Double naming

THIS is a personal attack. Do not do this again, or I will block you! As for double naming, there was a way more than 2/3rd support for double naming, not only for Danzug but also for other places. For biographies, the order of the names is also given. You don't have to like the community consensus, but you have to accept it! -- Chris 73 Talk 14:53, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

"We don’t need no education.
We don’t need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teacher, leave them kids alone.
Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone!"- Korn's "Another brick in the wall"

How grown-up of you, Space Cadet, to misquote a song in the edit summary ("WE-DON'T-NEED-NO-DOU-BLE-NA-MING, WE-DON'T-NO-THOUGHT-CON-TROLL, NO-EL-BING-KULM-LAND-IN--THE-CLASSROOM, HEY!- NAZI,-LEAVE-US-POLES-ALONE!"): you must have been rolling on the floor laughing, weren't you? Is that your level of (and your attitude towards) education? But since the song says "There's nothing you can say to make me change my mind," I expect you to continue and then (because Chris certainly meant what he said) I hope you'll quote the last lines of the song:

"Goodbye, cruel world
I'm leaving you today
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye" NightBeAsT 15:58, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Antypolonizm odblokowany

Radzę zerknąc na stronę. --Molobo 09:18, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

.......................................................................................

Well, there certainly is a lot of bitching on this page. It seems to me that 'Space Cadet' is definitely not a Nazi nor a German. More probably one of these brainwashed Poles (or maybe even a Russian) with their incredible history, which appears in virtually no-one elses books. Lets face it, if Churchill, Truman, the various Western Foreign Offices, couldn't get agreements out of them who could? In fact the only people who have ever agreed with their bizarre territorial claims have been the Soviets and they were able to assist the Poles in that respect using the sort of brutal force and murderous activities against civilians that even the Nazis would have had some difficulty equalling on the field.

Fanatical nationalists, and communists, who constantly re-edit out fact and replace it with their personal opinions (even if they're based upon some turgid publication) should be banned. This is easily done and the ISPs easily traced over long periods. I hope that Misplaced Pages act accordingly so that some sanity can reign around the Baltic coast entries. ChristchurchChristchurch 14:57, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

.......................................................................................

Emilia Plater

Please do not revert the city name when you can cleary read rules on Talk page for the article. If you cannot read or are not able to understand the rules them then ask on Village pump for help. Lastly, it was me who created the article and I very much dislike it became target of people who are here not to create encyclopedia but to engage in wars. Pavel Vozenilek 20:47, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Hey boy, if you are unable to follow the rules perhaps Misplaced Pages isn't the right place for you. Believe it or not your opinion is much less important than the current rules that keep this thing together. Engaging in revert wars is fruitless and often leds to blocking. Pavel Vozenilek 17:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Antipolonism dalej

Strona jest już tak zwandalizowana że praktycznie z naszych kontrybucji nic nie pozostało.Ale sama w sobie dobrze pokazuje pewne zjawiska.Zwróc uwagę na Alx, jego działania są o wiele bardziej przemyślane niż proste ataki NB.Działa również bardzo systematycznie i subtelnie-zobacz jak zredagował artykuł o Forsterze by zminimalizować jego antypolskie stanowisko i przyczynę do Pruskiego antypolonizmu. Niestety wątpię by samemu udało mi się obronić artykuł. Mam tylko nadzieję że zostanie gdzieś w archiwach by każdy mógł zobaczyć jak antypolonizm działa w praktyce. --Molobo 14:11, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

AfD

Misplaced Pages:Guide to deletion explicitly allows for a second re-nomination. You may think this vote is unnecessary but that does not allow you the right to remove the tag. As I said ask an admin. Marskell 18:05, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I called no one names. I said that an untemplated note is stupid and unprofessional, which it is. Marskell 18:19, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Witkacy

Czy został na stale zablokowany ? Gdzie można to zgłosić ? Tym bardziej że są na wiki dość nieprzyjazne wypowiedzi Chrisa wobec naszego narodu. --Molobo 11:30, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

A przy okazji-mam dwa obrazki satyryczne z XIX i początku XX wieku na temat Hakaty i Prus z polskiej prasy, niedługo postaram się zeskanować i wkleić do artykułow.--Molobo 11:38, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Double naming

As per Talk:Gdansk/Vote, there was a large majority for double naming. Please do NOT remove double naming against community consensus. Consider this your last warning. -- Chris 73 Talk 14:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Vandalization

Stop vandalizing historical German articles with modern Polish names, before I start adding a German touch to the Polish wiki. Stay on your own Wiki. Antman 20:55, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

"I'm American, so I am on my Wiki. Unlike you. Space Cadet 22:46, 16 October 2005 (UTC)"

I don't care. You are purposely adding a Polish-bias to articles, and I am going to stop it one way or another. Consider yourself warned by the template. Antman 22:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I hate Polish bias just as much as you do. What are you talking about? Space Cadet 22:53, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

No I'm not. Space Cadet 23:04, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


How aren't you? You have consistantly reverted usages of the word Danzig to the current Polish (not English, in the United States, as you should know, it is still colloqually known as Danzig) term Gdańsk, in articles which are based post-1308 and pre-1945. How are you not violating policy? Antman 23:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Let me educate you on this: It used to be known as "Danzig" during the Cold War. But for over 15 years it's "Gdańsk". Do me a favor: go and sign up for a library card, grab Britannica and try to find "Danzig" even for the short historical period when the city actually belonged to Germany. Get back to me with the results. In the meantime try to do something constructive rather than vandalize articles about Polish provinces or cities. Space Cadet 23:21, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

The usages of Danzig in these articles is referring to a time when it was known as DANZIG and was owned by Germany (or a German state). And a short historical period? I suppose 700 years isn't long enough to matter, considering Poland has only (re)existed for less than 100 years. Stop editing historical articles in an attempt to bias them -- you can't change history. Antman 23:28, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Polish: 980 - 1308, 1466 - 1792, 1945 - 2005 German: 1871 - 1918

So there! Space Cadet 23:39, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

And the poll says *-1308 and 1945-* is Polish. The Poll defines policy. Deal with it. Antman 23:43, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Deal with what? Show me your 700 years. Space Cadet 23:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Deal with policy. Also, 1466-1792? That was part of Prussia then. Antman 23:58, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I am dealing with policy. And Royal Prussia was just a name of a Polish province 1466 - 1792. Space Cadet 00:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi Space Cadet

Could you look from time to time on certain articles like Martin Chemnitz for example.Some people don't know that Krolewiec was just a Polish fief during certain times and erase its proper Polish name version. --Molobo 21:39, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. http://en.wikipedia.org/Christoph_Hartknoch http://en.wikipedia.org/Kant_Russian_State_University http://en.wikipedia.org/Christian_Goldbach this need attention. --Molobo 22:07, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


Narodowość Kopernika

Jakby znowu próbowano zniemczyć Kopernika: czołowy światowy serwis o astronautyce i eksploracji kosmosu Space.com definiuje go jako Polskiego astronoma: http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/marsmadness/ W trzeciej odsłonie. Pozdrawiam. --Molobo 13:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Translation of Polish articles

Space Cadet said: I volunteer to translate 5 articles from Polish. Just pick them and leave me a message on my talk.

At the moment I'm slowly making my way through the list of Polish football players, although I wouldn't mind salvaging Piotr Bartkowiak (http://pl.wikipedia.org/Piotr_Bartkowiak) as soon as possible before it is deleted. How is that for you? I'm not worried about work-rate, I can normally get these done quite quickly, even though I don't speak Polish well, I can muddle my way through the little I know and get Poltran to do most of the rest.

Thank you for volunteering to do this. If you know anyone else that would be useful to talk to, could you please let me know? Thank you. Bobo192 13:31, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Space Cadet said: I got Bartkowiak, give me four more, please. Unfortunately I don't know anybody else who would be willing to do this.

Okay. The next five I was going to work on were Piotr Bania, Antoni Barwiński, Marcin Baszczyński, Edmund Białas and Bartosz Białkowski. It's difficult to find other people to do this, I know, but it's also hard to find enough people who speak Polish fluently around here. Thank you for your co-operation. Bobo192 14:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

East Prussia

Hi there. You mentioned a compromise at the edit summary. I'd like to know what's on your mind. I'm all ears. Regards, Shauri smile! 15:47, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough, Space Cadet. The article now looks more neutral, carefully worded and fine to me. Have a nice weekend! Shauri smile! 15:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Spasibo

No offence taken, thanks man. Could you please take a look Talk:Kiev#Summary_of_older_discussions_over_names_in_the_articles, I would be interested in your opinion. Thanks, --Irpen 18:07, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Sources for Lithuania

Could you give sources for "The Polish population was expelled after 1945" in Lithuania article? Because as far as I know, that's not true. And without sources it's unverifiable and thus should not be here. Renata3 00:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

But were they expelled or moved out voluntary? Like thousands of russiands voluntary moved from Lithuania in 1990's after declaration of independence, but nobody forced them to leave. If you do find something to back up your story besides dentist family, then please provide a little more information about it. And my name is Renata, not reniu. Renata3 03:12, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
The same goes for Ukraine and Belarus. The same anon user added the same sentence to those articles too. And I did not know about Reniu... Renata3 13:31, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
There are two things I don't like about it: (1) it was added by anon IP who is clearly pro-Polish and potentially is very POV and (2) this sentence is not backed up by any other info (by who, when, where, why, how many, etc.) and thus is very suspicious. If it is true, please provide more info so no one will have any doubts about this. As far as Lithuania goes, there are lots of Poles living around Vilnius so the entire population clearly could not be expelled. So I question this "fact." I don't know about Ukraine or Belarus, but I just see a suspicious patern here and I don't like it. Renata3 17:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Molobo, Gdansk

You are simplistic. Nobody says that Texas should be (or Gdańsk should have been) returned anywhere. It's just obvious that if Texas ever becomes a part of Mexico, the respective article should say returned. Your putting words in Molobo's mouth and accusing him of desire to have anybody expelled or killed is childish and ridiculous. Your calling him an ultranationalist is highly offensive and unacceptable. Space Cadet 02:03, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't agree. It would be one thing if some province or provinces of Country A were occupied for a relatively short time by Country B, then returned to Country A, as was the case with Nazi Germany's occupation and (attempted) annexation of the so-called "Wartheland" in 1939. This area was indeed returned to Poland, only 5 years after it's detachment. Although the Nazis persecuted the Poles living there and expelled quite a number of them to what remained of Poland at the time (the so-called "Gouvernement General"), the area didn't lose its Polish character, and this act of geopolitical theft was not accepted internationally, as it was an act of aggression.

It's different when an area goes from one country or national group to another gradually over a long period of time in which the area develops in accordance with the later country or national group's culture and economy, and becomes thoroughly populated by the later nation. This was the case with the parts of Germany annexed by Poland and the Soviet Union at Stalin's insistence in 1945. They had been gradually Germanized over a period of centuries beginning in about 1250.

In the modern era, Germans from these areas contributed much to German culture and commerce. Silesia, Pomerania, Danzig and East Prussia were distinct regions of the German realm, and their loss was for Germany like an amputation of limbs from the body. I realize that this cataclysm was set in motion by German aggression and atrocities, but that does not change the fact that what happened to the Germans of this region was in every sense an act of ethnic cleansing, and the second-largest example of it in recorded history. This should not be ignored.

My analogy with the former Mexican states of the U.S. is not a perfect one – all analogies break down somewhere – but it does offer one notable parallel: When part of Mexico, this area was thinly populated; after it became part of the U.S., it developed quickly and within half a century was home to growing cities that became important to the U.S. economically and culturally. Today California is the most populous state in the U.S., with a population over 30 million. When it was Mexican, it had perhaps a few hundred thousand inhabitants.

In broad terms, development of a similar magnitude occurred in Silesia, Pomerania, Danzig and East Prussia during the centuries they were within the German "reach." Major German cities developed – Breslau, Stettin, Danzig, Königsberg – and before WWII the territories were home to about 10 million Germans. In relation to Germany's population, this was roughly comparable to the proportion of Americans who live in the ex-Mexican states today.

Space Cadet, please understand I am not suggesting the territories should be given back to Germany now or ever, nor do any Germans outside the lunatic fringe suggest that. I'm just saying that this whole episode was a very major geopolitical and ethnographic upheaval in recent times, and should be known along with all the other horrors of the WWII era.

Sca 20:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Just a tidbit of information, there is a substantial movement in Germany calling for Stettin (Szcezcin... I can't spell it, so I use Stettin) to be returned to Germany, as it is west of the Oder River -- perhaps one day if Russia cedes Kaliningrad (Königsburg) to Poland? Antman 02:43, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Over the last several years, I've heard more rumors of the Kaliningrad Oblast being returned to Germany (who doesn't want it). This is the first I've heard of anything regarding Szczecin. Olessi 20:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

edit summaries

Please avoid inflamatory or misleading edit summaries. --Irpen 20:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Violation of 3RR

You have been blocked from editing for 24 hours as result of breaking 3RR on Kulturkampf. Please refrain from doing the same in the future. Regards, Shauri 23:24, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Diplomacy in Recovered Territories

Look, can we work this out diplomatically? I would rather solve this dispute PROFESSIONALLY. Neither of can afford an edit war, since those are stupid and do not solve anything; they make matters worse by destroying any information the article might have had.

My primary issue is that you are injecting a substantial amount of Polish-Nationalist propoganda into specific articles referencing the former Eastern German territories, primarily former Prussia, Silesia and Pommerania (which half of my family happens to originate from). The fact of the matter is is that the phrase "regained" is extremely point-of-view, the Polish had not owned what are considered by Nationalists to be Recovered Territories for many, many centuries -- they were still tribal when they did. Plus, Poland is the -only- nation that refers to those areas as Recovered Territories; any other nation considers them War Reparations -- it was the USSR's influence in Potsdam and Yalta that caused you to get them in the process -- they were Poland's reparations for the USSR taking Eastern Poland (which, in turn, Poland took from the USSR during the Soviet-Polish War).

I am more Polish than I am German -- the Kuklinski side of the family originates near Danzig (as it were called then), and emigrated during the early 19th century as a result of Prussian reforms of the Polish culture. Also, I noticed that you referred to me as not belonging on this Misplaced Pages; I live in Chicago, and seeing as there is no American Misplaced Pages, I believe this is the most logical place for me to edit.

All I ask is that you refrain from injecting propoganda or point-of-view statements to an article -- perhaps we could work together and come up with a compromise that is not point-of-view in either direction (regained is PO-pov, annexed is DE-pov)? We could set a good example for future conflicts in articles pertaining to the territories Germany lost after the first and second World Wars. Antman 02:40, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Moje RfA

Dzięki za głos (choć mam wrażenie że nieco zza grobu, bo dawno Cię tu z nami nie było...)

Thanks. WikiThanks.
Thanks. WikiThanks.
I would like to express my thanks to all the people who took part in my (failed) RfA voting. I was both surprised and delighted about the amount of support votes and all the kind words! I was also surprised by the amount of people who stated clearly that they do care, be it by voting in for or against my candidacy. That's what Wiki community is about and I'm really pleased to see that it works.
As my RfA voting failed with 71% support, I don't plan to reapply for adminship any more. However, I hope I might still be of some help to the community. Cheers! Halibutt 05:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
No, akurat w to że potrafisz zbajerować właściwą panienkę nigdy nie wątpiłem :) Miło jest Cię mieć znowu pod ręką, zwłaszcza że czasem służysz mi za piorunochron (w ściąganiu na siebie gromów co aktywniejszych adwersaży zawsze byłeś niezły) :) Halibutt 20:19, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Witam,

i pozdrawiam kosmicznego odkrywce. =) Z ta SoCal to wciaz aktualne? :)

Tymczasowo w L.A. aegis maelstrom δ 21:05, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Ermeland is also English for Warmia

Ermeland is used as the primary name for Warmia in the following and should therefore appear in the text of the Misplaced Pages article with Warmia:

LuiKhuntek 07:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


Miłej Lektury

http://www.znak.com.pl/forum/index.php?t=wydarzenia&id=2857 --Molobo 12:48, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Kątowicze

Jako mieszkaniec Katowic chetnie bym sie dowiedzial wiecej o historii mojego miasta - moglbys moze dodac w artykule zdanie albo dwa o Kątowiczach i jakies zrodlo? Dzieki.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:00, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Dzięki! A jak cie zaintersowało user categorisation, to polecam Misplaced Pages:Babel - najprzydatniejsza z tych zabawek. PS. Ładny hełm u góry :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 00:16, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

UIA image

Hi, could you please add a source to the Image:UPA.jpg, if possible. I am interested in using it in other articles but I would like to know first where it comes from. Thanks, --Irpen 00:59, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Bromberg

Can you please use the Talk:Bydgoszcz page for this? You haven't given any real reasoning or argument for your edits. — Matt Crypto 12:38, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Jadger: Vanished Kingdom

where do u get these quotes? it seems like every other article that u have ever published, in that they are unsourced and unauthenticated as well as misguided. Have u ever actually read the book personally?Jadger 19:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

and your reviews are horribly wrong, the last one didn't even carefully read the book and skips words he doesn't like. he says it was wrong in the book, saying the great elector did not have the title of King of Prussia as he says the book says. the book however does not say that, the book states his son assumes the title in 1701. your sources are uncredible and inaccurate, as well as totally wrongJadger 19:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

if you know so much about the topic, then why do u not publish a book? wait, I know why, your bias and conclusions are total bullsh*t, and no one would ever read it unless they want an example of how well propoganda works on a person, who may outwardly seem rather intelligent. amazon.com cannot be relied on for reviews, anyone can review on there, I could review any book on there by saying that chocolate milk comes from brown cows, and nothing else. what is needed is authoritative sources for reviews, peer reviews for the author, like those that are contained on the back cover of the book.Jadger 19:51, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

why on my user page do u only quote reviews that are to your point that it was a bad book? I found many more reviews on amazon.com that were better written then your own contradictions and there were many more of them, by just as credible of sources as yours.Jadger 20:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

and you did realize that those reviewers on Amazon.com almost all have had bad reviews and very few ppl find there review useful.Jadger 20:05, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


Image:Space_Cadet.PNG

Hello. I just want to know what are the birds that have the red x through them. There is nothing wrong with the image, I think it is very clever. You are a good artist, btw. Zach 09:05, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Nicolaus Copernicus#ref nationality

"Not all people regard Copernicus as Polish. See Copernicus' nationality."

With reference to your recent reversion, I am wondering what you find misleading in the above. Please let me know.

Regards, David Kernow 20:16, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear Space Cadet! Excuse my confusion about your position concerning the "Copernicus debate": You voted for "Polish astronomer" but you agreed fully with ] who prefers "no nationality in the lead" (see Durova's Talkpage)? Did I misunderstand you? Cheers --Dagox 14:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Alexander Suvorov

Care to explain what exactly makes you unhappy in the article before throwing about tags? I wait for your apologies. --Ghirla | talk 16:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

The tag

Αндрей, izvini pazhawsta! Thousand apologies. I suffer from a "brain cloud" (my own term), due to adverse effects from the medications I'm taking for my illness. Kid you not. When it peaks I lose focus, concentration and partially memory. Being serious here. The good news is I'm getting better. Tvoy droog, Kasmicheskiy Pyeshekhod Space Cadet 17:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Never mind. I hope that you'll get well soon. Happy New Year. --Ghirla | talk 17:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Copernicus' nationality

Hi. I was looking through contributions by Informationguy and I noticed this article, Copernicus' nationality, where apparently three of you have been having a discussion on the article page. I don't know (and don't care) who started it, but as I'm sure you're aware, discussions of that nature are supposed to be on Talk pages, so I've moved the comments to Talk:Nicolaus Copernicus/Nationality which is where the article's talk page is redirected to. From now on, would you please use that talk page for that particular discussion, and if anyone else starts a discussion on the article page, please either move it as I have done, or re-write it from a neutral point of view. Thanks. --LesleyW 12:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

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Hi

Are you doing ok ? Its been long since you were here. I hope everything is ok. --Molobo 19:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

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Królewiec

Thank you for your contributions on the Simon Dach page. They were both informative and educational. But here is a suggestion: How about you try to stick to your Plant Science(?) and stop making a fool of yourself by voicing your annoying opinions about the things you have no inkling about? To show my appreciation for your future cooperation I commit myself in advance to stay away from any Plant Science garbage. Yours truly - Space Cadet 22:00, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Space Cadet, my post regarding your reverts was made in response to a request for comment. I came in as a neutral outsider, having no knowledge of the discussion prior to reviewing the page and its history. You clearly have good intentions and have a lot to contribute, but it does not help your cause when you make personal attacks. People who are well-meaning and correct get passed by on Misplaced Pages sometimes when they make personal attacks, multiple reverts, and other aggressive activities. It was for that reason that I was so quick to judge you. Having reviewed the facts again, I see I may have been in error, and you certainly know more about the discussion than I. I am assuming that the insulting language you used in your message to me is because of the strong convictions you have about the quality of the material on Misplaced Pages. It is not my intention to do anything other than improve Misplaced Pages here. Maxwahrhaftig 22:15, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Max, I take everything back! I apologize, but your comment made me incredibly mad at first. Buds? Space Cadet 22:21, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I'm glad we could resolve this so quickly. Maxwahrhaftig 22:24, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Russian troll

After vandalizing Belarusian language and History of Belarus article (and totally dirupting editing of these two articles), the Russian troll Kuban Kazak continued his activities on the article about my native town Vorsha (). I would like to ask Misplaced Pages admins and Misplaced Pages community members as what I should do in such a situation. Thank you very much. --rydel 14:01, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Rydel speak for yourself. And you my dear Cosmonaut from a country whose spacemen flew only in Russian capsuels know that you are supporing a POV pushing person who compleately lost an edit war (although succeded in blocking me for an hour) yet after which the admin looked into the history and saw what really is the truth behind his simple, cheap, provacational edits. Robi nie jest dupa...--Kuban kazak 23:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

"Are you gonna stop the name calling, or do you want me to call you a bitch?"

No idea what you are on about. If you see my descriptor as a personal attack you are correct to call me on it. It's hypocritical to respond to perceived personal attacks with attacks of your own. I did not think that my descriptor was a personal attack. Your threat of retaliation, attack for attack, most certainly WAS. Guettarda 00:31, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention, given the illustration on your page, you seem to be advertising a hatred for Germans. In that context, my interpretation seems accurate (although, of course, if you consider the descriptor a personal attack I will happily refrain from using it - truthfulness is no excuse for personal attacks). Guettarda 00:36, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Ponowna próba

Wymazania informacji o zbrodniach popełnionych przez żółnierzy niemieckich podczas Kampanii Wrześniowej, tym razem w artykule: http://en.wikipedia.org/German_17th_Infantry_Division --Molobo 22:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Sudovians

Could you check the changes to this article? I am out of my depth in this subject. Rmhermen 21:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Hej

wpadlam zobaczyc ten strong bias na Twojej stronie, i chybe chodzi o te kaczke. Teraz nie moge przestac sie smac. Rzeczywiscie, niezly argument w dyskusji o artykule :)--SylwiaS | talk 02:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, dobrze, ze to zmieniles. Kaczka jest duzo fajniejsza niz beret.--SylwiaS | talk 18:28, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Your Reversions

Could you maybe join the discussion on Talk:Nicolaus Copernicus instead of just reverting everything. You didn't explain what problem you had with my solution. Let's be fair, you are really obliged to do this, and otherwise it may look to some like you're engaging in revert warfare for its own sake. - Calgacus 00:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


Molobo

Do zobaczenia dzielny Kadecie ! :) PS:Uważaj podczas lotów na ptaki ;] --Molobo 22:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Voting

You might want to know that there was a voting started at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Geography_of_Poland#Vote. Halibutt 00:19, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Edit summaries

It would be nice if you could provide an edit summary when you perform a revert, especially when you enter a content dispute like here. Would you mind to explain why you agree with Molobo on this issue? We are having a conversation at Talk:Georg Forster, and discussion there would be nicer than a revert without even an edit summary. Thank you, Kusma (討論) 02:01, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Warning

Thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. As a member of the Misplaced Pages community, I would like to remind you of Misplaced Pages's neutral-point-of-view policy for editors. In the meantime, please be bold and continue contributing to Misplaced Pages. Thank you! Sherurcij 12:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Zobacz sobie tą interesującą niemiecką stronę

http://www.ety.com/berlin/ Jest to o czym mówi się w artykule o rzekomej opresji Niemców-żądania o "sprawiedliwość" wobec rzekomych powojennych ofiar Niemieckich są przykrywką dla propagowania antysemityzmu i nazizmu na tej stronie. --Molobo 01:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

3RR on Erika Steinbach

Hi. I have listed you and Maria Stella for a 3RR on Erika Steinbach. See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR for details -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:16, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked you (again, sigh). William M. Connolley 11:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC).

Kopernik

http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/polszczyzna/PTJ/b/b58_031-035.pdf. BULLETIN DE LA SOCIÉTÉ POLONAISE DE LINGUISTIQUE, fasc. LVIII, 2002ISSN 0032–3802WITOLD MAŃCZAKKrakówNaród a język, państwo i religiaSwego czasu był w Polsce młody historyk o nazwisku Krzysztof Pomian, który w r. 1973 wyemigrował do Francji i odtąd publikuje tylko po francusku. W r. 1990 ukazała się jego książka pt. L’Europe et ses nations, która w dwa lata później została przetłumaczona na język polski jako Europa i jej narody. W książce tej w pewnym miejscu autor powiada, że „wojny spowodowane przez Rewolucję i Napoleona otwierają w Europie ostatni rozdział epigenezy narodów, która rozpoczęła się ponad tysiąc lat wcześniej, gdy barbarzyńcy przekroczyli limes. Przebiegała ona zarazem w dwóch wymiarach: poziomym, gdzie każdy naród samookreśla się wobec innych, zwłaszcza wobec tych, które nad nim panują lub nad którym sam panuje albo wobec obu naraz albo też wobec tych, które są po prostu jego sąsiadami; i pionowym, gdzie z kolei każdy rozwiązuje konflikty między tworzącymi go grupami – konflikty rozją-trzone lub wywołane przez innowacje gospodarcze i techniczne – wyłączając własne elity z kultury ponadnarodowej i rozciągając się tak, by ogarnąć również tych, którzy zajmują na drabinie społecznej najniższe miejsce”. Z kolei autor omawia „tory, po ja-kich poruszają się poszczególne narody”, i dochodzi do wniosku, że „tory, które łączą punkt wyjścia z punktem dojścia, plemiona z narodami, są wypadkowymi gry sześciu sił, już to współdziałających, już to ścierających się w różnych kombinacjach”. Oto one:1) Dynastie panujące, które uosabiają kraj w oczach jego mieszkańców i zagra-nicy, które, często traktowane jako święte, budzą przywiązanie i wierność i wokół których krystalizuje się poczucie zbiorowej tożsamości.2) Państwa, czyli aparaty administracyjno-militarne z ich hierarchiami, z ich włas-nymi tradycjami i symbolami, posługujące się zorganizowaną przemocą i przymu-sem i sprawujące kontrolę nad poddanymi.3) Związki terytorialne – miasta, prowincje, kantony – gdzie pewne uprawnienia państwa należą do ogółu mieszkańców lub do instancji wybieralnych i gdzie poczu-cie tożsamości zbiorowej skupia się nie wokół osób, lecz wokół zwyczajowych form życia społecznego.4) Elity i instytucje kulturalne, w tym piśmiennictwo, wiedza i sztuka, które wy-twarzają uprzedmiotowione i trwałe nośniki zbiorowej pamięci, zbiorowych wyobra-żeń, poczucia wspólnoty języka, terytorium, przeszłości i przyszłości.


Page 2 32WITOLD MAŃCZAKNARÓD A JĘZYK, PAŃSTWO I RELIGIA335) Instytucje i autorytety religijne – Kościół katolicki ze swoim centrum i lokalny-mi odgałęzieniami, Cerkwie prawosławne, Kościoły protestanckie, rabini.6) Same narody wreszcie lub pewne ich składniki, które od czasów plemiennych reagują na naciski z zewnątrz i naciski własnych instytucji, a niekiedy, przejmując inicjatywę, stają się współtwórcami własnych dziejów, a nie tylko biernym przed-miotem.Osobiście uważam, że pojęcia narodowości nie da się wtłoczyć w jakąś uniwer-salną formułę, że pojęcie narodowości w różnych krajach i w różnych epokach przed-stawia się różnie, jednak sprawy nie są aż tak bardzo skomplikowane, jakby to suge-rowały przytoczone wypowiedzi Krzysztofa Pomiana. W moim przekonaniu istnieją tylko trzy wyznaczniki narodu: państwo, język lub religia. Jeśli chodzi o narodowość polską, to Polakiem jest ktoś, kto mówi w domu po polsku, natomiast jeśli ktoś w domu po polsku nie mówi, to Polakiem nie jest. Tak jest przynajmniej w ogromnej większości wypadków, choć w sporadycznych wypadkach bywa inaczej: obecnie gdzieniegdzie w Rosji trafiają się ludzie, którzy poczuwają się jeszcze do polskości, choć po polsku już mówić nie umieją. Natomiast zupełnie inaczej ma się rzecz we Francji. W kraju tym od czasów rewolucji obowiązuje zasada, że wszystkie posady państwowe są obsadzane w drodze konkursów. Widziałem raz we Francji ogłoszenie o konkursie na listonosza, w którym to ogłoszeniu wyszczególnione były warunki, jakie musiał spełniać kandydat na to stanowisko. Jeden z warunków brzmiał: être Français, tzn. dosłownie ‘być Francuzem’. Oczywiście, jeśli ktoś w domu mówił po prowansalsku, bretońsku czy baskijsku, to to nie znaczyło, że nie mógł się ubiegać o ową posadę listonosza. Wymieniony w ogłoszeniu warunek être Français oznaczał tylko, że kandydat musiał mieć obywatelstwo francuskie. Różnica między Polską a Francją polega na tym, że u nas w różnych kwestionariuszach nieraz są pytania zarówno o obywatelstwo, jak i o narodowość, natomiast władze francuskie pytają jedynie o nationalité, czyli o to, co my nazywamy obywatelstwem.Jeśli ktoś mówi w domu po polsku, to wiadomo, że jest Polakiem. Jeśli jednak ktoś w domu mówi po niemiecku, to równie dobrze może być Niemcem, Austriakiem, Szwajcarem jak Luksemburczykiem. Jeśli ktoś mówi w domu po francusku, to rów-nie dobrze może być Francuzem jak Szwajcarem czy Belgiem. Jeśli ktoś w domu mówi po angielsku, to możliwości jest jeszcze więcej, a wręcz rekordowa liczba możliwości zachodzi w wypadku, gdy ktoś w domu mówi po hiszpańsku. Wiadomo, ile jest państw w Ameryce Łacińskiej.Tak więc na pojęcie narodowości polskiej, węgierskiej czy rumuńskiej składa się wyłącznie język, natomiast w wielu innych wypadkach wchodzi w grę nie tylko język, ale i przynależność państwowa, a niekiedy, jak np. we Francji, tylko obywa-telstwo.Niekiedy wyznacznikiem narodowości jest religia. Wszyscy mieszkańcy Północnej Irlandii mówią po angielsku, ale o tym, że jedni są Irlandczykami, a inni Anglikami, decyduje wyznanie, które jest bądź katolickie, bądź protestanckie. Podobnie się ma rzecz z mieszkańcami Bośni, z których jedni są chrześcijanami, a inni muzułmanami. Jak powiada Pomian (1992: 174), „w zasadzie Serbowie i Chorwaci różnią się niemal tylko tym, że pierwsi wyznają prawosławie, a drudzy są katolikami”. Szczególny wy-


Page 3 32WITOLD MAŃCZAKNARÓD A JĘZYK, PAŃSTWO I RELIGIA33padek stanowią Żydzi, którzy, rozproszeni po całej kuli ziemskiej, mówią najrozma-itszymi językami, a jedyną rzeczą, która ich łączy, jest ich religia. Za naszych czasów, gdy i wśród Żydów nie brak ludzi religijnie obojętnych, Żydów można zdefiniować jako ludzi, którzy są lub których przodkowie byli wyznania mojżeszowego z tym za-strzeżeniem, że niektórzy wyznawcy judaizmu, a mianowicie Karaimi, Żydami nie są.Ze względu na to, że pojęcie narodowości w różnych krajach i różnych epokach różny ma sens, warto zwrócić uwagę na to, że niejedno obce wyrażenie zostało nie-adekwatnie przetłumaczone na polski. I tak istnieje angielskie wyrażenie the United Nations, które jest tłumaczone na polski jako Organizacja Narodów Zjednoczonych, ale to tłumaczenie jest błędne. Istnieje naród palestyński, istnieje także naród kurdyj-ski, który liczy ponad 20 milionów ludzi, ale ani naród palestyński, ani naród kurdyj-ski nie należy do Organizacji Narodów Zjednoczonych. Dlaczego? Otóż dlatego,- że narody te nie mają własnego państwa, a tylko państwa mogą należeć do ONZ. Tak więc adekwatny przekład ang. the United Nations powinien brzmieć Organizacja Państw Zjednoczonych. Mutatis mutandis to samo dotyczy organizacji, która była po-przedniczką Organizacji Narodów Zjednoczonych, a mianowicie przedwojennej Ligi Narodów. W angielskim jest także wyrażenie national park, które jest tłumaczone na polski jako park narodowy, ale znowu to tłumaczenie nie jest adekwatne. Co jest przeciwieństwem ang. national park? Otóż przeciwieństwem national park jest park miejski albo park prywatny. Zatem national park to park, który nie jest własnością ani miasta, ani osoby prywatnej, natomiast jest własnością państwa. W polszczyźnie ist-nieje zapożyczenie nacjonalizacja, zamiast którego nieraz używamy słowa rodzime-go upaństwowienie, a nie *unarodowienie. I słusznie, gdyż nacjonalizacja jakiegoś przedsiębiorstwa oznacza, że dana firma staje się własnością nie narodu, ale państwa. W Paryżu jest biblioteka, która się zowie Bibliothèque nationale, a która po polsku bywa nazywana Biblioteką Narodową. Poza tym na wzór paryskiej Bibliothèque nationale w Warszawie stworzono Bibliotekę Narodową, ale nazwa ta jest myląca. W rzeczywistości Biblioteka Narodowa w Warszawie jest własnością nie narodu polskiego, ale państwa polskiego. Trafniej byłoby ją nazywać biblioteką państwową czy krajową. Podobnie się ma rzecz z nazwami i innych instytucji państwowych, np. Narodowego Banku Polskiego. Fr. international tłumaczone jest na polski jako ‘mię-dzynarodowy’, ale jeśli nie we wszystkich, to przynajmniej w ogromnej większości wypadków wyraz ten znaczy ‘międzypaństwowy’. Natomiast fr. route nationalesłusznie się na polski przekłada jako droga krajowa.Na zakończenie chciałbym parę słów poświęcić narodowości Kopernika. Z dzisiejszego punktu widzenia Polakiem jest ktoś, kto w domu mówi po polsku, na-tomiast jeśli ktoś w domu po polsku nie mówi, to Polakiem nie jest. W ogóle to, jakim się mówi językiem, od czasów romantyzmu, tzn. w XIX i XX w., odgrywało wielką rolę, ale przed XIX w. było zupełnie inaczej. Jak powiedział znany lingwista francuski Dauzat, niegdyś ludzie walczyli o religie, później zaczęli walczyć o języki. I istotnie kwestie językowe wycisnęły piętno na historii Europy w XIX i XX w. Właśnie to, że języki zaczęły odgrywać rolę, jakiej nigdy przedtem nie miały, zadecydowało o zjednoczeniu Włoch i Niemiec, o rozpadzie najpierw imperium otomańskiego, a po I wojnie światowej o rozpadzie imperium habsburskiego oraz o utracie przez Rosję


Page 4 34WITOLD MAŃCZAKNARÓD A JĘZYK, PAŃSTWO I RELIGIA35niektórych jej prowincji zachodnich, a w najnowszych czasach o rozpadzie imperium sowieckiego oraz o rozpadzie Jugosławii i Czechosłowacji.Ale nie można zapominać o tym, że kwestie językowe wyglądały zupełnie ina-czej przed XIX w. Zrobię dygresję, ale zaraz potem wrócę do głównego wątku mego rozumowania. Jak wiadomo, w Stanach Zjednoczonych jest wielu imigrantów, a imi-granci ci po uzyskaniu obywatelstwa amerykańskiego niekiedy dochodzą do sprawo-wania nawet najwyższych funkcji państwowych w USA. Jest jednak pewien wyjątek, a mianowicie w konstytucji amerykańskiej jest zastrzeżone, że prezydentem Stanów Zjednoczonych może zostać tylko człowiek urodzony w USA, tzn. ktoś, kto obywa-telstwo amerykańskie miał od samego początku. Otóż pod tym względem szlachta polska była bez porównania liberalniejsza: w Polsce królem mógł być wybrany tak-że cudzoziemiec. Ba, w czasie elekcji cudzoziemcy mieli nawet większe szanse od Polaków. A czyż król, który sam mówił kiepsko po polsku albo w ogóle polskiego nie znał, mógł się interesować, jakim językiem mówił taki czy inny jego poddany? Oczywiście nie.Można to sformułować jeszcze inaczej: stosunek do języka był przed XIX w. w Europie, w tym także w Polsce przedrozbiorowej, taki, jaki do dziś jeszcze jest we Francji. Państwo francuskie nie interesuje się tym, jakimi językami mówią w domu mieszkańcy Francji, we francuskich kwestionariuszach spisu ludności nie ma rozróż-nienia, jakie jest w polskich kwestionariuszach, w których się rozróżnia obywatel-stwo i narodowość. Sytuacja panująca w dawnej Rzeczypospolitej może być także przyrównywana do sytuacji, jaka jest dzisiaj w Szwajcarii. Większość Szwajcarów mówi po niemiecku, ale ktoś, kto w domu mówi po francusku, włosku czy retoromań-sku, jest równie dobrym Szwajcarem, jak ten, co mówi po niemiecku.W tym stanie rzeczy jest zrozumiałe, że do końca XVIII w. nie miano wątpliwości co do narodowości Kopernika. Kopernik urodził się, przeżył całe życie i zmarł w Pol-sce, zatem był Polakiem. Nawet król pruski Fryderyk II, który uczestniczył w pierw-szym rozbiorze Polski, wkrótce potem napisał w liście do Woltera, że jest rzeczą słuszną, żeby kraj, który wydał Kopernika, nie grzązł już dłużej w barbarzyństwie (Œuvres posthumes 1788, list z 11.12.1773 r.). Natomiast w XIX wieku Niemcy za-częli twierdzić, że Kopernik był Niemcem, i trwało to do roku 1945. Ale po II wojnie światowej zaszła pewna zmiana. W lectorium głównym Biblioteki Jagiellońskiej przejrzałem wszystkie encyklopedie i okazało się, że w niemal wszystkich encyklo-pediach, od Encyclopedia Americana i Encyclopaedia Britannica poczynając, a na encyklopediach włoskich skończywszy, jest napisane, że Kopernik był Polakiem. Pod tym względem wyjątek stanowią jedynie encyklopedie niemieckie (Der große Herderz r. 1954, Meyers enzyklopädisches Lexikon z r. 1975 oraz Brockhaus Enzyklopädiez r. 1990), a mianowicie w nich narodowość Kopernika została przemilczana. Tak więc po II wojnie światowej Niemcy nie twierdzą już, że Kopernik był Niemcem, ale albo jego narodowość przemilczają, albo powiadają, że był Europejczykiem.P.S. W rozmowie po wygłoszeniu referatu na zjeździe PTJ prof. Oleg Leszczak ze Świętokrzyskiej Akademii Pedagogicznej poinformował mię o książce pewnego ukraińskiego historyka, który przedstawił argumenty przemawiające za tym, że – wbrew temu, co się na ogół sądzi – wojna z Kozakami w XVII w. była wojną na tle


Page 5 34WITOLD MAŃCZAKNARÓD A JĘZYK, PAŃSTWO I RELIGIA35nie etnicznym, ale religijnym. Innymi słowy, walczyli w niej nie przodkowie tych, co siebie dzisiaj nazywają Ukraińcami, z Polakami, ale prawosławni mieszkańcy tej czę-ści Wielkiego Księstwa Litewskiego, która w r. 1569 w wyniku unii lubelskiej została włączona do Korony, z katolikami. Jest to jeden przykład więcej na to, że przed XIX w. języki odgrywały bez porównania mniejszą rolę niż za naszych czasów.SummaryAccording to the author, the concept of nationality in different countries and peri-ods has been understood in different ways, and language, state or religion are determi-nants of nation. The author also discusses the problem of incorrect Polish translations of English and French expressions with the words nation or national. The final part of the article is devoted to the issue of the nationality of Copernicus.Publikacje cytowaneŒuvres posthumes de Frédéric roi de Prusse. 1788. Berlin.Pomian, K. 1992. Europa i jej narody, Warszawa: PIW.


You might want to verify that you reverted to the correct version today, unless of course you totally changed your views on the issue. Balcer 17:25, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

copernicus

Please write a bit less ambiguous comments. When seeing your "I dont think so" I thought that you reverted my edit. mikka (t) 18:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Stop using insulting langauge to me

"Showcase, you use "yo' mama" comments like some stupid hood and you're surprised when people get insulted. Grow up and try to be more like Joe." ] And stop undoing my edits without any reason.] --Showcase 22:59, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I thought it was you who used insulting comments like: "yo' mama". Space Cadet 23:02, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

3rr on Treaty of Welawa

Blocked again (sigh). And consider yourself lucky not to get longer for edit comments like and William M. Connolley 23:38, 18 February 2006 (UTC).

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. Sceptre 17:34, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Helga

Mozliwe, ale niekoniecznie. Sporo jest Niemcow o bardzo podobnych pogladach. Nie ma to zreszta duzego znaczenia, nieprawdaz, czy to Helga czy tez inny user o podobnym nastawieniu :)) Szopen 15:49, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Sock puppeteer suspect

You might want to look at Tirid Tirid once again ... and especially on this Request for CheckUser. --Matthead 19:02, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Hej

Jeden z niemieckich użytkowników próbuje doprowadzić do zablokowania mnie na dłuższy czas. Gdyby to mu się udało miałbym prośbę byś zerknął na gdzie co chwile informacja o tym jak Polskie dzieci biczowano i katowano tak że obdarto je ze skóry jest kasowana przez tego niemieckiego użytkownika. --Molobo 13:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Chauvinistic vowels?

I'm really intimidated by your edit, summarized as "As part of Poland - rm nonsensical chauvinistic claims". Are too many vowels now considered Anti-Polish POV? --Matthead 18:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Już patrzę

Widzę że ten sam problem co zawsze. Podwójne nazewnictwo jak widać służy tylko do nadawania zniemczonych wersji nazw miejscowości w krajach podbitych w przeszłości. --Molobo 12:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Jak zwykle

Próba kasacji informacji o zbrodniach Niemców podczas II Wojny Światowej: Jeśli możesz to zerknij od czasu do czasu. --Molobo 18:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

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Wiewiórka

Znów próbuje usuwać informacje o zbrodniach niemieckich w artykule o Steinbach, oczywiście "krzywda" wypędzonych pozostaje. Zresztą sam zobacz. Pozdrawiam. --Molobo 18:24, 14 March 2006 (UTC) Btw: Now only to replace the nuts with image of Nazi atrocities to be deleted :D --Molobo 18:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

=Stworzyłem

Artykuł o Niemieckim obozie koncentracyjnym dla Polskich dzieciPotulice concentration camp. Oczywiście nie minęło wiele czasu a już się zaczęło wymazywanie informacji. Jak możesz czasem przyuważyć będę wdzięczny. --Molobo 02:43, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Double naming

Space Cadet, you know very well that a large majority of users voted for double naming, please do not remove double naming from articles . Details at Talk:Gdansk/Vote, just in case your memory is failing. You can also read the numerous warnings on the talk page here, if you prefer. -- Chris 73 | Talk 23:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, please avoid misleading edit summaries . -- Chris 73 | Talk 23:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

As usuall

As usuall Dwaj użytkownicy usilnie próbują pro-sowiecką wersję wprowadzić. Jeśli mógłbyś mieć na to oko (nie chce złamać 3RR) byłbym wdzięczny. --Molobo 20:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

The discussion as I red it was that he was from prussia, but when the area was polish kingdom than why the discussion?

I dont like the discussion about: this was mine and not yours Should be done by three years in the sandbox but not like here.

But to start really nice stuff here it would be good to edit some articles from irisch people born during the time it was offically part of the UK and say they where not irisch but UK citicens. Or all people born 1938-1945 in austria ar germans. Or chinese born during japanese occupation. I think you would get respose like never bevore and everything would be vandalized in seconds. Wars start easy but are hard to stop.--Stone 12:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

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Wiewiórka znów bez orzeszków

--Molobo 02:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Please see this

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Russsian_claims_about_Warsaw_Uprising_1794 The author tries to put information from non-objective source as objective article. The source is from Imperial Russia regarding Polish uprising against its occupation. Imperial Russia was known for fabricating and being source of many antipolish fabrications. Because I didn't want to delete this(no blanking) I moved it to a proper article that would deal with claim. --Molobo 03:06, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Jeśli możesz przywrócić info o zbrodniach sowieckich: --Molobo 11:27, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


Your recent discussions

I noticed your recent discussion with an anon user regarding issue of Polish and German relations, whom you suspect of being the the infamouse Helga user IIRC. The anon stated one source of his views on one talk page, you might be interested:

The source is from

I recommend you look at the site and what ideology it represents. --Molobo 18:32, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Przy okazji wiewiórka jak zwykle bez orzeszków: --Molobo 21:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Wiewióra się ostatnio dobrała do artykułu o mordach na Polakach dokonywanych przez mniejszość niemiecką w 1939. Ponieważ przez weekend nie będę miał sieci jakbyś mógł wiewiórki zapędy zerknąć od czasu do czasu będę wdzięczny. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Selbstschutz&action=history --Molobo 16:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Znów

Próba germanizacji: --Molobo 11:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Jak zwykle

Próba wymazania zbrodni niemieckich --Molobo 14:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi Space Cadet,

thank you for leaving a message on my talk page and the question about the leader (I added military/leader, because he was both.)

Are you and Molobo two different people, or are you one and the same? You two act so very much alike, that it is really hard to tell. You are now both # 1 at Misplaced Pages.

Here is an article you might want to read and ponder: http://wiez.free.ngo.pl/jedwabne/article/35.html . I have some hope that it might do some good in your demeanor from now on. Molobo should read this also, and so should a number of others, but I am afraid that Molobo is beyond repair. I think he might not even actually live in Poland, if he does, he should have gotten some of what the article is talking about.

Have a good day. MG 4/7/2006

Kusma's RfA

Hello, Space Cadet! Thank you for your support in my recent successful request for adminship. If you ever have problems that you could use my assistance with or see me doing stupid things with my new buttons, don't hesitate to contact me. Happy editing, Kusma (討論) 02:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

"No Prussia No Problem"

Someone messed up your picture. I've been trying to fix it. But I've been having trouble reverting back to your version. You might want to take a look at Image:Prussia Graffiti.JPG. 172 | Talk 09:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Prezent

Wiewiór

Jak zwykle: --Molobo 16:41, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

3rr

Hi, you have broken the three revert rule on Soviet partisan. Please don't do this again or you will be blocked according to policy. --He:ah? 00:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Reverts...

Hello... your recent contributions have been almost nothing except reverts of other editors on many, many articles, numerous times the same editors... Please, this is not the way to resolve disputes. If you don't start discussing on talk pages and stop constantly reverting, you will be blocked from editing. Thank you. In the interest of complete closure, I have also left this message for Sciurinæ (talk · contribs).--Sean Black 00:51, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

You returned to make 3 further reverts after this warning. Let me reiterate Sean's words: you must not continue to edit war as you have been doing. If you find yourself in a conflict, discuss, and seek mediation or other dispute resolution. Edit warring is never okay. Dmcdevit·t 23:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
You should also note that you can be blocked for a multitude of edit-warring related activities, not just for four reverts in 24 hours. 3 rv's can get you blocked, as can "disruption" and "exhuasting the community's patience". Your lack of almost ANY edits other than reverts is QUITE troubling, and i think our patience is waning. --He:ah? 00:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Incivility

I've blocked you briefly for incivility, e.g. William M. Connolley 14:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Copernikus damaged by Matthead again

Czesc Space Cadet,

Matthead wymazuje z artykulu wszystkie polskie litery i polskie nazwy. Moze pomozesz? Ja juz nie moge rewertowac.

Matcreg 13:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:German American.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:German American.JPG. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Misplaced Pages because of copyright law (see Misplaced Pages's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Misplaced Pages are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. 82.83.65.227 10:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

A gift

To long departed friend: --Molobo 00:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Archive

I suggest that you should archive your talk page, as its getting very long--TBC 02:33, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Your Arguments

You often state that Pomerania should be Polish because it has Polish ancestry, and the 'Poles were there first'. Besides the obvious "We were there first, so it's ours" fallacy, you are forgetting several things...

Based on that logic, the region, going back a bit further, should be in Germany, as it was occupied by the Goths (a Germanic tribe), as the West Slavs (not necessarily Polish, but Lechetic at least) did not invade until later.

Or, going back even further, we should give it to the Irish, as Celtic tribes occupied the area before Slavs or Germans.

Or, even further, we should give it to the Basques, as their ancestors and their relatives used to own all of Europe prior to the Indo-European invasion.

So, are you saying that all of Europe should revert to Basque control? Before you continue your 'It was ours first' rant, you should consider the facts that the Poles weren't the first, nor the Germans, nor the Celts, and probably not even the Basques. Ameise -- chat 08:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

(ammendum) By that same logic, of course, even going back a little bit, Danzig west to Stettin (I cannot spell nor pronounce the Polish forms, the German forms come more natural to a Chicagoan speaker such as myself) should be given to a newly created Kashubian nation, west of that (including, I suppose, Russian Kaliningrad) should be given to Latvia, as the Prussians were a Baltic group. Ameise -- chat 08:17, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The Comenius POV edits by User:71.137.207.147

Thank you for taking interest. Could you keep an eye on he article? I do not want to be the only one who revets him there. It starts to look as a personal vendetta while in fact it's a hopeless case of trying to teach history to a user who is clerly uneducable. My editor interests lie mostly in science. Also a little in history of the countries around Baltic - hence my knowledge of the history of Pomerania and Prussia. However, I would not like this to distract me too much. Thanks again for help. Friendly Neighbour 19:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

"rm nonsensical chauvinistic claims"

You better had stayed were you have been, and spared Misplaced Pages from bombastic edit comments like in and . -- Matthead      O       14:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Jpg

Hi, I noticed you frequently contribute images to the Misplaced Pages, which is great, but I would like you to reconsider your choice of format, you see JPEG is most frequently used for images, and as such has a very lossfull codex, and many compression aftifacts visible. PNG is ideal for diagrams and illustrations and doesn't suffer from any compression artifacts. Have a look at this image for a good comparison between the formats.

PS: Your no-moose image is a bit incorect, because the horn is not crossed, it would usually be taken to mean that moose horns are prescribed, that is - that they are compulsory. :)

+Hexagon1 09:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Great about the formats, but I still think not-crossed signs prescribe, not restrict, after all speed-signs are sometimes in a red circle, and that doesn't mean that that speed is forbidden. But I might be wrong, or maybe it's a regional-thing. +Hexagon1 11:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Podolski/Klose

Hi Space Cadet! I see you hold an interest in Polish-German relations. Could you add Lukasz and Miroslaw to your watchlist? There is a (sockpuppet?) watchdog tending to the articles who constantly tries to dispprove their Polish roots. Pozdrowienia! Pawel z Niepolomic 16:28, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Why?

Dear Space, we've never really talked one on one. So what is your rationale for adding the Polish name of Biržai to English WP? Maybe you have a reason, so I ask you sincerely and without an ulterior motive. No animosity or accusations intended. What say you, Space Cadet? Dr. Dan 02:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Please use non-confusing edit summaries

Re: . Thanks, -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:42, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It's for your own good, Ceasar :) I don't mind when it is applied to rv of vandalism or anon's pov pushing, but it is confusing if used for stuff like spelling correction. And keep in mind that if used against a regged user, this can be seen as a personal attack, and WP:PAIN has been increasingly active lately.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  21:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Tak ucieszne jak to bylo, jesli ktos to pokaze na PAINie to dostaniesz blocka :( Ja rozumiem ze niekiedy z ogniem trzeba ogniem, ale nie tutaj: zamiast tego sugeruje bys ty go i innych takich raportowal na PAINie, a neutralni admini ich zablokuja. Co ty na to?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Ja, jestem za! Dr. Dan 02:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

recovered territory

you said: Again, he had a power of a king, he ruled over the country and the dukes.) Just because he was not recognized by the Pope as a king, does not mean he wasn't one. He had all the power of a king and he ruled over dukes. I'll give you the Slavs before Tacitus, though

well, the pope hasn't recognized me as the King of Canada, but I am, so from now on you should call me "your excellency", after all, I have the power of an emperor, I rule over my own land, and have loyal subjects (the four-legged kind) who are Dukes, not joking, my dog's name is Duke, so surely I must be a king also, as I fit your requirements for one.

--Jadger 00:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Adam Keller's Response re Polish Corridor

I have responded to your message on my page re the Polish Corridor, hope to hear from you.Adam keller 12:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Warsaw

Hello. While I'm on your side in the Trakai discussion, I can not admit that your recent comments about Warsaw were helpful there (personally, sometimes I find it better not to respond when not necessary). Even if I may guess what was your possible intention behind, the most probable result is the increase of antagonistic attitudes due to specyfic language issues. This is something I'd like to avoid. Nothing personal, though. Best regards, --Beaumont (@) 19:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Re

Hello. The sentence of governor of Prussia was added not by annon, which you changed later. So this situation definitely should be properly discussed with sources presented if needed on talk, to avoid further rv. M.K. 20:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Minor edits was good by annon too. BTW, why you need LT, not enough your own homies? M.K. 20:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

====Regarding reversions made on {{subst:currentmonth}} {{subst:currentday}} {{subst:currentyear}} (UTC) to Andreas Gryphius==== Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. If this is an IP address, and it is shared by multiple users, ignore this warning, but aviod making any reverts within 24 hours of this warning in order to avoid any confusion. ST47Talk 19:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


Wesołych Boże Narodzenie

Wesołych Boże Narodzenie

--Jadger 20:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Order of Dobrzyń/Dobrin

The article is currently at Order of Dobrzyń, but the history is at Order of Dobrin. If you hold on, I'll merge the histories into Order of Dobrzyń and fix the discrepancy. Olessi 20:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Nomina odiosa, editio misteriosa

Nope, no problems at all, I'm cool and smiling :) Glad to see you back, BTW. //Halibutt 09:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

FPS player, are we? :) //Halibutt 09:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
FPS = First-person shooter. //Halibutt 11:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

survey =

thanks! (I'll sign) absent minded--Beaumont (@) 13:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


Personal attacks

Attempting to add a userbox to someone else's userpage after they have specifically asked you quite nicely to stop falls pretty easily within the realm of a Personal attack. Consider this your warning against doing this again.--Isotope23 16:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, OK it was just a misunderstanding, my intentions were good.Space Cadet 22:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the comment you left on my talk page... Sorry, but I have not the foggiest notion what you are talking about...--Isotope23 00:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Responded on my talkpage.--Isotope23 14:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The comment you left on User talk:Isotope23 looks a lot like a threat to me. If that was a misunderstanding, please be a lot more careful in the future. It's at least edging into what would be blockable. Georgewilliamherbert 01:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, when Xx starts referring to me as a "Prussian Canadian" and I take offence to it, it doesn't mean I really like the term and secretly want it plastered on my userpage. you also stated: you decided it was an excuse to take aggressive steps towards me (snitching and crying to the admins). Fine! Another reason you should consider yourself Prussian. If I was Prussian, I simply would have walked all over you, the Prussians didn't "snitch" or "rat" or "cry". And why would I plot to have steps taken against you? I had not edited the same article with you for a long time before this week. I don't hold grudges like you might.
--Jadger 16:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Space Cadet: Actually, Isotope23 did take it as a threat, as he posted to WP:ANI last night. That's why I got involved.

Please be more careful in how you phrase things. Georgewilliamherbert 18:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Your AIV report

Thank you for making a report in respect of R9tgokunks (talk · contribs · block log) on Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Removing and reporting vandalism is vital to the functioning of Misplaced Pages and all users are encouraged to revert, warn, and report vandalism. However, administrators are generally only able to block users if they have received a final warning (one that mentions that the user may be blocked) and they have recently vandalized after that warning was given. The reported user has not yet been blocked because it appears this has not occurred yet. If this user continues to vandalize even after their final warning, please report them again to the AIV noticeboard. Thanks. (Note: This appears to be about content disputes rather than about issues of vandalism; consider using dispute resolution). Sandstein 22:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Cooperation

I know that we have had our disagreements in the past, particularly because of our very different viewpoints as to many things which tend to cause conflict, however, I hope that in the future and from hence forth, we can work together to improve Misplaced Pages, and create reasonable compromises on the various articles that tend to be creating conflict between the different groups present on Misplaced Pages... it is becoming very tiring for quite a few of the articles to be in a state of endless edit-war, when in the end I don't really believe that either side is right. Antman -- chat 20:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure :/ Does it mean 'Ant'? My most recent Polish-English dictionary was last printed during the first half of the 20th century :/ Antman -- chat 21:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

re:jadger

yes, when you say "rv" (Revert Vandalism) in an edit summary, when a edit is not vandalism, that is a personal attack

--Jadger 01:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't get so defensive, I was just pointing out how you need to be clear, and also how you should stop editwarring. revert is one word, you never see it spelled ReVert, not everyone holds to the same l33t speak as you do. and you can see how easily things can be misinterpreted on wikipedia, you need to be more clear. and I am not here to discuss Hrodberaht's actions, sure he may be a little offensive by instead of saying "removed POV" says "removed fascist propoganda" but I seem to recall you have done that an aweful lot as well.

--Jadger 16:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

regarding your current dispute on Danzig/Gdansk ] with Herr R9, I think you are correct, and if I catch his revert before you, I will remove it, so that you don't get caught in a 3RR.
However, I do not think your reversions on Arthur Schopenhauer are correct, if you read the Stutthof article, it was annexed before 1788 (when he was born) so it was not actually in Poland, but in Prussia at the time.
--Jadger 07:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

on the Schopenhauer article it gets pretty befuddling, I added a few words in order to try and clear it up. Do we know exactly where the border was at this time? because I know Hitler was born in a border town (not to equate schopenhauer with hitler) but we could put something like "born in Stutthof, a Prussian border town near Danzig/Gdansk in Poland."

--Jadger 07:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

thank you, it has been great working with you rather than editwarring with you. we should do this mor often :) oh ya, and you can post that Canadian Palitanate thing on my talk page, and I will decide wether or not I will add it to my userpage, danke schöne

--Jadger 18:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S could that map that you found the old border on be added to the Sztutowo article? as it currently is lacking a map.

--Jadger 18:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Talk

Hi, I think you would be interested in this . ≈Tulkolahten≈ 16:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Copernicus

Sources are on our side, Copernicus was Polish, there is no doubt . If necessary we should start consensus dispution. ≈Tulkolahten≈ 00:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Troubles

Much more troubles with that man ≈Tulkolahten≈ 21:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Silesia

Cześć. Chciałem poinformować, że jakiś czas temu został uruchomiony Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Silesia. Serdecznie zapraszam. LUCPOL 14:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

RE:what do you mean no it isnt

What I meant is the half of Frankfurt an der Oder now in Poland was not polish in the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire borders where farther east for a long time, see ]

--Jadger 23:28, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I like the current version that Richard created. it does not mention time as we can certainly both agree they all didnt come under Polish or German influences at the same time.
And just in case you see recovered territory on the AfD pages, don't worry. I just noticed it was a random stub generated by someone in June of last year, so don't think I'm trying to have this recovered territories article deleted.
--Jadger 16:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

The wiki way

Can you please explain why you think it's perfectly ok for you to revert with an edit summary of "you wish"? Please see Jagiellon dynasty and Casimir IV who relate to the area of land that is now called Poland at the time of Copernicus' birth. "Poland" is a gross oversimplification of the Kingdom of Poland of the Jagiellons. Next you'll be telling me Alexander the Great is a Greek. A better (referenced) phrase would be:

Gingerich, Owen (14). John L. Heilbron (ed.). "Copernicus, Nicholas", The Oxford Companion to the History of Modern Science. USA: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195112296. Copernicus was born 19 February 1473 in Torun, a Hanseatic town that had shortly before transferred its allegiance to the Polish monarchy. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= and |year= / |date= mismatch (help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |accessyear=, |origmonth=, |accessmonth=, |chapterurl=, |origdate=, and |coauthors= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

As long as you refrain from putting in your edits crap like "Poland did not exist at that time", I don't care. Space Cadet 15:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You manage to misquote me - the edit summary was "...Poland did not exist at this point in time". That aside, it is obvious you make no difference between the periods of it being a State, a Kingdom, and a Republic, amongst other less easily titled things. I however do not accept coffeebook-history which ignores things like Leonardo being a Tuscan but effectively a Florentine - God help us, here he's an Italian, I'm not wasting anymore time pushing elephants uphill, though I still feel the same should apply to the article in question. I don't care two hoots if it's a difficult and complex relationship that needs to be shown, this thing is not paper, there is plenty of room. Thank you for your time in reading this rant - rant out.
Anyway Poland DID exist (in whatever form - Kingdom, Commonwealth, People's Republic, Drakes' Republic etc.) at that point in time, so there! All this Leonardo crap is just blowing smoke! What is he called in Britannica, for God's sake? Space Cadet 18:29, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Why cite Britannica at me, I said I don't appreciate coffee-book history. If they wish to perpetuate gross oversimplifications fine, that's their loss. Here, if the bloody revert warriors give you a chance, justice can be done. My example of Leonardo is totally aposite - search the page for "tusc" - the only mention of him being a Tuscan is in a category - that's worse than cofeee-book - it's pathetic. It could be so much better. So could the article you're working on.

I rest my case. Space Cadet 12:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Gdansk was a completely Polish City?

That you call me knucklehead on the page for my discussion does not change the history. I would be a knucklehead to trust you without looking at sources, however. I have done that now. The people of Gdansk revolted against the choice of the king, you told me. Didn't they like the moustach of the King Bathory? You better not say just why they revolted. They wanted to keep autonomy and refused to pay homage to the new Polish king until their autonomy was guarranteed. You littered texts with nationalistic simplifications. Gdansk is a Polish city. It was not wholly in the past.--Toolsbadly 10:20, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I take back the knuckle head and I apologize. But the new king did not yet issue any decrees limiting the "autonomy" as you call it, nor did he show any signs of intending to do so. Gdańsk citizens revolted only because they liked Habsburg's moustache better. And they wanted him to be not the king of Gdańsk, but the whole Poland of which they still wanted to be a part of. Gets? Space Cadet 15:48, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

You are off the mark! Fast lesson: http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/eceurope/danzig15571660.html --Toolsbadly 17:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I know this site! It's so biased, it's hard to believe! Try harder, OK? Space Cadet 19:10, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't know the site. Since Misplaced Pages is not Avis, why should Toolsbadly, "Try Harder". After I read the article, I'm curious (as I'm sure others might be), what part of that specific article is false, let alone biased? Dr. Dan 19:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, try this: http://www.poland.gov.pl/Stefan,Batory,(1533,%E2%80%93,1586),1959.html and compare. Space Cadet 00:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

After trying your poland.gov.pl page, I still can't understand what makes it biased. 1) From where do you know the zum.de site? 2) What makes it biased? 3) What makes your poland.gov.pl site better?--Toolsbadly 09:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I know it from surfing and it's ironically on my favorites list. It uses German names for most Polish cities and other geographical features even during periods of time when the territorry in question belonged to Poland. It pushes the XIX century Prussian historiography POV. The Polish site captures both sides of the argument and it does not try to hide or misinterpret historical facts. It's so objective that even I find some shocking at first information in it. Space Cadet 11:01, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


The site uses Gdansk until 1309, it uses Danzig from 1309 to 1946, it uses Gdansk since 1946. Misplaced Pages uses Gdańsk until 1307, it uses Danzig from 1308 to 1945, it uses Gdańsk after 1945. So: The site is just fine! It doesnt push XIX century Prussian historiography POV, okay? The Polish site captures no sides of the argument, has as subject not Gdansig, just the king, and is objective or is not. You were careless with your accusation of nationalism.--Toolsbadly 12:06, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

No, both sites are wrong and inconsistent. From 1466 (1454) to 1793 Gdańsk was Polish, "okay"?. You mean to tell me you did not read any other article on the site? How superficial! No, I was not careless but you! Space Cadet 15:29, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? No one said it wasn't Polish, and no one said it was. You argue German name for a city => city was German => city was then in Germany; use of German name for city not in Germany => revisionism & nationalistic & biased & inconsistent & wrong, etc., and zum.de makes this => zum.de is all of this before => zum.de and all their info shall not be used => zum.de is wrong => Gdansig was not autonomous. Both site are wrong and inconsistent? You meant zum.de and wikipedia.org, didnt you? Misplaced Pages held its own decision making conference and vote for the nameing of Gdansig, coming to the conclusion both sites now use, described above:http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Gdansk/Vote --Toolsbadly 20:25, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Over the years I read about 100 books about the period, so my knowledge is not based on one or two sites and your little cause and effect chain maybe applies more to you: Space Cadet is a Polish nationalist ==> etc. I would like to recommend a great book by Karin Friedrich "The Other Prussia - Royal Prussia, Poland and Liberty, 1569 - 1772". Autonomous - yes, but an autonomous part of Poland. Space Cadet 21:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


I could teach someone who read a hundred books (or were you using binary numerals??) about the period that the fight of Gdansig against the king was to avoid reduction in autonomy? I feel very honored. Earlier you wrote: it was "against the choice of the new king - their candidate being a Habsburg. Unfortunately they lost surrendered and lost a lot of privileges." "But the new king did not yet issue any decrees limiting the "autonomy" as you call it, nor did he show any signs of intending to do so. Gdańsk citizens revolted only because they liked Habsburg's moustache better." "And you are out of line quoting nationalistic sites." Looking back, don't you feel embarassed? You're now using autonomy without quotes, even. That you call my recording of your past logic my "little cause and effect chain" doesn't make it incorrect.--Toolsbadly 09:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

No I don't feel embarassed. It is you who will feel embarassed after you read (from cover to cover) the book I recommended. In the meantime please teach me stuff, but try to use scientific arguments, rather then "funny" binary system one, or "you forgot the quotation marrks". Space Cadet 14:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Chapter: Political identity in the cities of Royal Prussia and the meaning of liberty

Please explain what exactly in the chapter "Political identity in the cities of Royal Prussia and the meaning of liberty" pp 96 - 120 supports your rv?--Toolsbadly 09:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Did you read it? Space Cadet 10:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I already said: I've read the book from cover to cover. What's with the explanation?--Toolsbadly 14:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

If you didn't get it, try chapter 6 (AGAIN!): "Loyalty in times of war". And not just the introduction, the whole thing! Then let me know what you've learned. Space Cadet 15:18, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I got the chapter, therefore I want to hear your explaination what it has to do with your rv. You can't go round and revert version of users ordering them to read chapter X of the book of Karin Friedrich and when they read it again and don't find your rv is well grounded in the chapter, you tell them read chapter Y. You can fool me once, but you cannot fool me twice. I don't get it? Then give it to me, explain it to me.--Toolsbadly 15:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not going to get sucked into your little game: I explain and you don't get it, I explain my explanation, you still don't get it and want me to explain ad infinitum. I'm not an English to English traslator. Many provinces or towns in Poland-Lithuania had special privileges differentiating them from the rest. Warsaw had most of them, obviously, as the capital. But look up Zamość, you'll be surprised. My point is: separate privileges don't make a separate country. Space Cadet 19:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
P.S. It's not "explaination" but "explanation". Ask someone to help you with your English before when you edit Misplaced Pages.

Basedview22

Hi spacecadet, this user continues in the manner of recently blocked another user, if you don't mind please check his edits. I reverted most of his edits but I am afraid of he will came back very soon and will continue with changing for example Charles University to Karlsuniversitat Prag etc. etc. ≈Tulkolahten≈ 22:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Johannes Hevelius

Page is now fully protected in the form as you edited it. ≈Tulkolahten≈ 15:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Lechu.JPG

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Why are you wanting fight? I see many peoples have picked one bone with the? Please you discuss instead of reverting to your personal versions past neutralness. :) Please? No desire for the continual insualts and unciviliness from the?

I no wanting fight. I wanting neutralness peoples who have picked bone speak English. No insualts meant. Space Cadet 00:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Gdańsk

Hi there; as I see from your userpage that you speak Polish, and as you and user:172.195.112.109, who clearly is Polish, are following each other around all over the encyclopedia reverting each other, may I respectfully suggest that you talk to each other on your or his talk pages, or by e-mail if you wish, and come to some agreement about, for instance, the importance and significance of the name of Gdansk. I can otherwise see the possibility of you both getting WP:3RR blocks, which I really do not want to do.--Anthony.bradbury 22:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

How exactly do you figure he's Polish? Is this supposed to be a joke? Pretty stupid one then. Space Cadet 23:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No, it was not meant to be a joke, and I had no intention of denigrating either you or him. He appears to edit only Poland related articles, and, given that i know a lot of Poles, his use of the English language indicates an Eastern European origin. I had no intention of taking sides, and sent you both similar 3RR warnings. May I suggest that, as you speak Polish, you address him in that language. If he understands, then you can perhaps come to agreement. If he does not, then let me know, and this will be taken into account in any future blocking request. I'm just trying to preserve the encyclopedia. aren't we all?--Anthony.bradbury 00:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

How does bad English indicate that someone is from Eastern Europe? Are you chauvinistic or retarded? Anyway, he is a German revisionist and I don't understand why you only picked us two out of all the parties involved. Space Cadet 00:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

First of all. let me say that offensive edits do not advance the discussion. I picked the two of you because you are the two who have interacted the most. Poor English does not necessarily imply Polish origin, although his use of English is typical of people from Eastern Europe. And I was suggesting conversation, rather than confrontation. If indeed he is a German revisionist then that is clearly not going to work.--Anthony.bradbury 00:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Second of all you were offensive first! Watch who you're calling "Polish" next time! If Germany is Eastern Europe for you then I guess France is too. Not a lot of geography in medical school, I gather. I am from Central Europe and I must say that your expert professional opinion about "his use of English is typical of people from Eastern Europe" is way off. You associated with some low class Poles and came to some weird conclusions. But guess what: his use of English is typical of people from low class, who are the same all over the world. Happy editing, your friend Space Cadet 00:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Firstly, I have not said you were Polish; I said that I believed that User:172.195.112.109 was. You say that I am wrong, and that he is German. OK, I have not argued that. And I have not said that Germany is in Eastern Europe, although I did say that Poland was, which most people would agree with. If you feel that Poland is in Central Europe then hey, OK. The argument was really not about that; it was about the name of Danzig/Gdansk. And even there I was trying to mediate, not dogmatise, OK?--Anthony.bradbury 01:02, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
If you really are NOT playing dumb on me now, then let me explain: I got offended by your "matter of fact" assumptions about User:172.195.112.109 and your aristocrat wannabe tone telling me to go and take care of it. Space Cadet 01:08, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
P.S. I am Polish-American.

I am really sorry if that is the impression which I created. I knew, of course, that you spoke both English and Polish because your user-page says so. My assumption that User:172.195.112.109 was Polish we have exhaustively examined. Asking you to go and take care of it is not, perhaps, how I intended to come across to you. When we have an edit conflict within wikipedia then we always try, where possible to get the two main protagonists to talk and agree with each other; it does not always work, but is always worth trying. That is what i was doing, and I guess failing in. And now I am going to bed - nothing personal, but it's 2.15 a.m. here.--Anthony.bradbury 01:17, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


Please stop accusing of the lies! information true you know. but secretly yourself revert both Giese pages saying "LIES"? Why you so uncivil and scare people away because not beleiving like you do? Please consider truth. Nothing baddest than corrputnss.

Did you upload Image:Ionicbond.JPG?

Hi. I was trying to figure out who the original uploader of Image:Ionicbond.JPG was. Since you added the image to the Ionic bond article back in 2002, I would guess that you drew and uploaded it too, but I can't say for sure since the upload history for such old images was lost at some point. If you did create it, could you please add a note saying so to the image page and tag it with whatever license tag you'd consider appropriate? As you can see, the image is currently tagged for deletion as lacking a source. Thanks. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 11:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

"nonsensical chauvinistic claims"

Wow! I understand that you treat polish and german victims of the World War the Second at the same. BTW congratulations of "neutrality" view.

RE

Sorry, I'm new here.

Nicolaus Copernicus

Page is now fully protected to avoid an edit-war. There is a dispution about this article, please add your opinion here consensus dispution. ≈Tulkolahten≈ 15:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie

Hej, dzieki za chrzaszcza, nie mam polskiej klawiatury :-) --Targeman 22:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

August 2007

Please refrain from introducing inappropriate pages, such as Derision, to Misplaced Pages. Doing so is not in accordance with our policies. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Tiddly Tom 17:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi. This is the reason I have nomonated your article for speedy deletion. Thanks for your message. Tiddly Tom 19:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
The article has now been deleted by an Administrator, for the reason given above. Please do not re create it, unless you can drastically change the article as not to be dictionary like.

Images listed for deletion

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Thank you. M0RD00R 12:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Ukrainians

Ukrainians were deported to SU, or exchanged in 1945. Only a small number remained in Poland and was deported during Wisła operation.Xx236 07:03, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


Five years of disruption

You have been embroiled in a consistently disruptive naming war for five years now with no end in sight. Certainly the naming is just a small part of your reverts, but it can be described well.

The following are just the edits that are directly related to whether it should be Gdansk or Danzig on the article Gdansk, not your similar edits like this. Nor does it include all the naming disruption on similar articles ( etc).

These diffs above don't include the following, either. The Gdansk revert war went on. In fact, it was your ( ) and Emax's revert war against the administrators John Kenney, Chris 73 and Jpgordon that was followed by the creation of the Gdansk vote (mid-February 2005) to finally end this. The vote was also welcomed by a Polish user like I've never seen approval of a vote before.

In this vote, you committed double voting by casting with both Space Cadet and your proven and confessed abusive sockpuppet Tirid Tirid. Tirid Tirid was also used for further revert warring.

Understandably, you did not like the outcome at all, so you continued in contrast to the vote's decision: (limited to just one diff per month)

There's only one month in which you didn't violate the voting. After April 2006, you took a break. You started editing again in late August with ... a Gdansk vote violation. Thus continues your record (limited to just one diff per month):

Yup, there's no month in which you didn't breach the Gdansk vote this time. It's amazing that your conduct has never received the due amount of attention. And the last diff listed is this month, early September 2007. Again, it is noteworthy that the naming is just part of your revert warring. I guess the following war should also be mentioned because it's also directly related to the Gdansk vote ( ).

Now, the following is the total number of your edits and reverts that are not in line with the Gdansk vote in the last two weeks:

It's hard to believe that still, in all those years, no one has taken your editing privilege for good. Sciurinæ 01:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Already five years? Wow! Space Cadet 03:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Copernicus

¿Why does Copernicus was not a Polish and Dürer and Beethoven were Germans? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nationalism Patrol (talkcontribs) 13:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)