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Personal attack

ILike2BAnonymous called me Idiotic here, I request that an admin give this user an appropriate blocking for violating WP:NPA.Cholga 03:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Are you a "that?" It seems that he was referring to your comment, and while I'd suggest that he be a tad more civil about it from now on, a block is not needed here. The Behnam 03:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes I am indeed a that, this user cleverly objectifies me and others to avoid directly refering to individuals as idiots amoung other perjorative terms.Cholga 05:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

He called me ignorant too, and said i was obsessed with feces, and he also called me idiotic on another page, how about that?Cholga 05:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• May sound funny to you, but was fine; and why the obsession with "feces"?

N.B.: It should be obvious here that I was pointing out her obsession with the use of the word "feces", not the thing itself (refer to article edit history for that story if interested). +ILike2BeAnonymous 05:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

• You show your ignorance once again —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cholga (talk • contribs) 05:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
• Someone here seems to have an unnatural affection for "feces". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cholga (talk • contribs) 05:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
• The park doesn't "employ" the bags, it provides them for others to employ. And please, enough with the graphic dog shit stuff! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cholga (talk • contribs) 05:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
• Sorry, that that is just idiotic: You haven't said what valley the town is in. I mean the specific valley, by name. Do you even know the name? (I don't.) If you can find the exact name of that valley, fine. For now, we know that it's in a valley, and that that valley was formed by the S.A.F. Right? Can we agree on that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cholga (talk • contribs) 05:36, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
• What the hell does "73% average annual brightness" even mean?)
• ...And notice I said "slack cut IF you're not a native English speaker" (emphasis in IF in case you missed it). You cannot accept the slightest courtesy without shitting all over it. I give up. Sheesh.
• Just to head off another of Cholga's mini-shit storms...

I am feeling rather harrassed by ILike2BeAnonymous at this point, this is ongoingly very rude and crassCholga 05:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm no admin but you'll probably need to post diffs for those last couple of claims there too. Equazcion • argue/contribs • 05:14, 09/19/2007

Yes... diffs please. Don't expect other people to go fishing for you. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 07:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

So are those enough diffs? Because I can dig up even more where he refers to me as idiotic or an idiot. Is it okay for this user to claim I "shit all over him" and that I am obsessed with "'Feces'" even if he claims in his or her defence that s/he was only claiming that I was obsessed with the word "feces" which I highly doubt. Is it okay for this user to continually debase my attempts to discuss, to edit...to harrass and attack me? Please have a word with this user and block him/her for a while.Cholga 05:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

From an outside perspective, 1 is pretty innocent and is a remark about the word which is used little outside the medical community, 2 is a statement about the idea you put forward (Ignorance is not necessarily a bad thing). 3 and 4 is tied to 1 and may be part of the lamest edit war I have seen yet "feces versus waste" (For the record, I like his wording a bit better. Less graphical description, commons terms are used, and the message is still conveyed). 5 is attacking the idea, not the person. Why is #6 is even here? 7 is a response to your question. I can see why he would respond that way. And finally #8 is a response to your tendency to be very pedantic about the wording of certain things. To be honest, while you claim to be a native speaker of english, the way you word things does not appear to be the most common way. This is the first time I have seen the term "dog feces" instead of "dog waste" at any dog park/facility. In addition, provides conveys that group A makes available item B for group C to use. Allocates can be construed differently. Employs implies the park itself uses the bags instead of the public. Finally, I have studied geology and in particular, earthquake zones and tectonics. In the locale you are talking about, Fault would be the appropriate term. A fault is a rift but in layman speak, the fault caused the rift valley. The rift is the whole zone we are talking about. Spryde 11:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

It's innocent to tell someone they have an obsession with feces when they disagree with you!? I find it hard to believe this users intentions were to use the word ignorance to mean "misinformed" or "unknowing" Thanks for your input but this is not about any disagreements it's about this user's abusive language. The point is, is that this user is personally attacking me repeatedly.#8 is not a response to me being "pedantic" I was trying to avoid an edit war so I tried to discuss the matter and he called my discussing a "mini shit storm" and 7 may be an answer to my question which this user used to accuse me of "shitting all over them" that is just beyond uncivil, instead of even (uncivilly) rudely replying he takes the opportunity to ridicule me by accusing me of "Unaturalness" "Feces Obsession" calls me "idiotic" and says i repeatedly show my "Ignorance" and says i cause "Shit Storms" and that i am "shitting all over him"Cholga 12:11, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

There are content disputes right under the surface of your complaint and the fact that you more or less failed to mention them means that you are drawing undue attention to the issues of rudeness. There is no doubt that you and ILike2BeAnonymous are antagonizing each other but I don't think a block is in order. If you want to pursue the matter, I suggest opening a request for comment to determine if other members in the community have a problem with the user's behavior. --Spike Wilbury ♫ talk 18:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

whats the content disputes matter, what do you care, the personal attack is the point even if we were not arguing.Cholga 02:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Press up

This article has had a history of page moves from the original editor's British English name of Press up to the American English form of Push up. A survey about a requested move recently resulted in no consensus for a page move from Press up to Push up (issue was closed on 13 September 2007.) Since then, there has been a sub-3RR edit war involving the proposer of the page move (User:Tyguy92 and mainly User:Matt Crypto, but in the last instance, myself) in which the opening lead sentence is changed to give the American English version priority over the British English term, and, thereafter, every incidence of "press up" being changed to "push up". This gives the impression that the article name is incorrect. A redirect to this page exists which is Push up. As stated, I reverted the last incident which changed "press up" to "push up", as described above, and summarized the reversion as correcting a disruptive edit, which I consider it was. Since the survey was closed with no consensus, User:Tyguy92 has made these changes three times. Can I ask what advice should be done to stop this sub-3rr edit war that is happening after the survey went against what User:Tyguy92 wanted?  DDStretch  (talk) 09:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

There will never be consensus on something like this. Since the article remains at press up that term should be used throughout the article and changing it is inappropriate. Tyguy92 should be warned of this and reminded that he is violating the 3RR in spirit and could still be blocked for disruption, but hopefully it won't come to that. violet/riga (t) 09:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for the advice. I see that I missed some cases of "push up", so the term was not used throughout the article. Another user has now kiindly corrected those. I will give User:Tyguy92 the advised warning.  DDStretch  (talk) 10:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Can this be added to WP:LAME? This sounds as bad as the Orange (colour) debate. hbdragon88 19:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

The idea that we have to stick with the term or spelling first used in an article implies ownership of the article, like a gold prospector staking a claim or an explorer being the first to land on an island, which is in conflict with the policy Misplaced Pages:Ownership of articles. The rule that the first editor to touch the topic selects for all time the regional variant is from the Manual of Style, which is itself much debated and which is a guideline, not a policy. If discussion on the talk page of an article, after the issue is well publicized at the Village Pump and other relevant sites, shows that there are good reasons for changing from the original usage to a different one, that should be permissible. Such reasons might include the greater frequency of usage worldwide or the historical origin of the term. Edison 15:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. There was discussion about a proposed name change, when a proposal to change the name was made. The consensus was that there was no opinion in favour of a change. No issue of ownership need arise by means of this process. The problem was that a very vocal editor in favour of the name change, subsequent to the discussion being formally closed, took it upon himself to start to change the names used throughout the article, as described above. It is that problem, described above as "violating the 3RR in spirit" which prompted this message here.  DDStretch  (talk) 15:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

This is not a spelling or grammar matter, which WP:ENGVAR addresses, like consistently using "centre" rather than "center" in a given article. Take a look at the article Elevator, where the British term "lift" is frequently used to describe the devices in the UK, including in a photo caption, despite the fact that the initial article in 2002 used "Elevator." Rather than a "winner take all," "I win, you lose" approach, in which every instance of "push up" is replaced with "press up," the illustration of a US Marine recruit doing the exercise should use the U.S. term. No confusion would result, and readers not from the U.S. would not make the mistake of thinking that when they visit the U.S. they should use the other regional term. They would get blank stares or laughter. Similar issues arise if the U.S. term for something is exclusively used in discussing its use in the U.K. The statement that "the consensus was that there was no opinion in favour of a change" is a bit misleading, since a number of editors in fact called for a change.Edison 17:21, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Would the phrase "no consensus emerged in favour of a name change" be better, then? If so, please interpret my comments above, where appropriate, with this wording. The other points you raise perhaps should be discussed on the talk page, since they are not part of the original problem which prompted my posting here (undiscussed low-level edit warring).  DDStretch  (talk) 17:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I do not agree with placing a warning on his page that he could be blocked if he uses "push up" anywhere in the article. It would be highly appropriate to use it when referring to the exercise in countries where that is the term for it, and where the other term is practically unknown. I address here the mistaken (in my view) belief that the absence of a clear consensus to change from one regional term to another (those commenting were about equally divided, and the discussion was not well publicized) makes it a blockable offense to dare to use the other term at all in the article, and that it is then required to remove all the alternate usages. It is not spelling, and it is not grammar. That is inconsistent with other articles about things called different terms in the various linguistic branches of English usage. Edison 17:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I didn't actually place a warning: Instead I advised him about the opinion had been given up to that point in this discussion. If the view is that what I posted was a warning, then I apologize and would withdraw it (though it has already been removed) as it was not intended to be one. You do have a point about the need to be flexible in what term to use when describing the exercise in countries where the term for it is not the same as that used in the article name. But this should have been discussed on the page after the first reversion occurred, and not re-edited and then re-reverted (and so on) in a low-level edit war, which was, as I state again, the reason why I initiated this message on WP:AN/I, asking for advice.  DDStretch  (talk) 18:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The discussion about where in the article the term "push-up" might be used continues on the talk page of the article. I note the precedent that in the Elevator article the other term "lift" is used to describe the devices in Britain, so theere is clearly no precedent for restricting articles to one term or the other especially when it seems quaint, like describing a U.S. Marine doing "press ups." U.K. readers would likely feel culturaly disenfranchised if the elevator article had a caption describing "elevators in a British subway station." Using the term appropriate to a country is not jarring like having the spelling jump back and forth would be in a "color-colour" "check-cheque" variation within an article. Edison 21:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

User Anwar saadat and TMMK article

Reposted report

• User: Anwar saadat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Article: Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazagham (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The user's edits to the article have repeatedly:

• added many inline external links to the TMMK website
• added a lengthy ‘Organisational structure’ section with several subsections of tables of ‘wings’ with red linked names of over two dozen ‘officers’
• removed tags (e.g. {{fact}} {{newsrelease}} {{primarysources}} {{POV-check-section}} {{wikify}} etc.)
• removed citations
• removed the references section

He has continued this disruptive pattern of editing (now with misleading edit summaries) in spite of requests to stop. Several editors have invited discussion on the article talk page and have asked him, in edit summaries and on his user talk page, to discuss his changes. He removed such requests from his talk page, and has not discussed any issues on the article talk page since June.

A Request for comments (politics) on WP:NOT#SOAPBOX cleanup issues, listed ten days ago, has so far yielded no additional input in the RFC section on the article talk page.

Because only one editor has been persistently adding non-neutral content and removing references, this is not a request for page protection. — Athaenara ✉ 09:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Chronology

• 09:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC) The report above originally posted here on AIV.
• 18:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC) Thread among others archived by MiszaBot II.
• 20:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC) User Anwar saadat's next TMMK revert.

(User Anwar saadat's own previous report about reversions of his edits to this and other articles, and npov responses to it, are pertinent — see "Editor on blanking spree on multiple pages" section in archive 299.)

During the approximately 32 hours while the report was on the active noticeboard, the user did not edit the article, but 2 hours after the thread was archived, he again repeated the type of edit reported. I re-added the report in the hope of admin attention for the user. — Athaenara ✉ 12:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

This pattern goes back several months — the first time user ‘Anwar saadat’ edited the article (which was originally added in February 2007 by user Ayubkhan2020 in the only en.wikipedia edit from that account) he removed {{ad}} and {{npov}} tags. — Athaenara ✉ 15:25, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I've had problems with Anwar saadat editwarring before. ⇒ SWATJester 17:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

(unindent)As an aside, has this user been cleared to use a name very close to Anwar Sadat (and does it have any bearing on articles edited)? LessHeard vanU 22:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I wondered about that, too, and username policy on inappropriate usernames does address it. Today I found that a previous RFCN, with a link to an archived discussion which resulted in "Allow," is listed in the RFCU Index for June 2007. — Athaenara ✉ 11:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

'kay. Thanks. LessHeard vanU 20:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The persistent reversion to WP:NOT is a problem. It stopped while this report was first on ANI, resumed after it was archived, and stopped again when it was reposted. Will the user again revert after this second discussion is archived?

The subject itself may be the larger problem: extremely thin results of searches for reliable sources ("Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazagham" gets 127 hits; ‘"Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazagham" -wikipedia’ yields 10)—very brief comments in a few newspapers in India—suggest that its notability is marginal or worse. Should it be on AFD? — Athaenara ✉ 13:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The TMMK is notable, that is really not the problem. The problem is that Anwar seems to not want their obvious links to Islamic terror groups noted, which is generally how the TMMK is known. IT is known as a subsidiary group of al-Umma, a terrorist Islamist group in Tamil Nadu.16:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bakasuprman (talk • contribs)

Maybe so, but reliable sources of information about it are the proverbial needles in haystacks. I worked on it a bit today for WP:NPOV. — Athaenara ✉ 20:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Veiled threat & Incivility by User:Wjbean on WQA

Hi. I was answering the proverbial phone banks over at WQA, when this post appeared (diff). It seemed polite, but led to the user construing the posting as an attack (diff), leading to more back and forth arguments (in which it seemed the editor misunderstood the point of WQA (diff). Then this lead to Wjbean making a veiled threat, and suggesting that insults are ok as long as they work (diff). Given the irony of all this happening on a Wikiquette forum (and my doubts that it can be resolved there), I'm forwarding it here where it can hopefully reach some resolution. --Bfigura 13:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

• Bean strikes me as very incivil on the WQA thread. Saying that "X comes across as a troll" is not a personal attack (because X wasn't actually called a troll) is dodgy at best, and wikilawyering at worst. I dropped a note on his talk. >Radiant< 13:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Much obliged. Hopefully that will do it. --Bfigura 14:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Please note that my "incivility" started when I was accused of having an alternate motive for disputing a tag. I have voiced no such motive. I also disagree with placing this entry here in less than a twenty four hour period. My concerns have never been properly addressed. Instead I have been accused of having other motives for disputing the tags. Again, I have never expressed any other reason for disputing that tags except that they were thrown improperly. I have suggested that both a POV tag without a stated reason and a nomination for deletion without that nomination appearing on the proper dated page smack of vandalism. Both of these actions do whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Finally, I feel this is turning into a kangeroo court without my issues being address; at all. William (Bill) Bean 15:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

As I stated, I have no position on any content editing taking place, just on the civility issues. I placed this issue here after you were repeatedly uncivil (despite receiving admonishments from several editors), and after you made veiled threats on WP:WQA. I believe my actions were relatively justified (veterans of AN/I, please correct me if I'm wrong). Best, --Bfigura 15:42, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think this is now resolved, Bean seems to have realized the source of the issues over on WQA. (Basically a mistaken assumption). --Bfigura 22:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Not really. I waiting to hear an administrator chime in; that's all. By the way I have screen shots entry (and the date) the AFD was posted. The shot clearly shows September 18th. I just don't know where to post it. William (Bill) Bean 00:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It was the 18th where you live, in the United States. However, English Misplaced Pages is worldwide and the logs are based on Greenwich Mean Time. By the time, the nomination was posted, it was the 19th in London. The tag was placed on the article, the nomination was made, and the nomination was added to the logs, all at 4:06 19 September 2007, GMT. I've explained this to you several times before. In any event, it was one of the most widely commented AfDs in recent memory. I don't understand where you get the idea it was hidden from the community. These baseless accusations about not following procedure are getting tiresome. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 01:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages was started by an American (Jimbo Wales) in America. That said I consider the English language version of Misplaced Pages to be American. Your stating that my attitude is "tiresome" is insulting. I'm not here for your pleasure. I'm here to help edit pages, supply references, resolve disputes, and insure that wikipedians follow established guidelines and policies because those guidelines and policies are established to insure neutrality, accuracy, and the free flow of information. Three attributes that apparently take a backseat to civility by certain apparently over-zealous members of this little community. My position is that the three attributes stated above trump all others. Yes, I a brusque. That is my nature. I'm sorry you don't like it, but if I were to act in any other way I would not be true to my own nature. It also got everyone's attention. Akin to shouting into a megaphone in a crowded room where everyone is talking at, but not to, each other. I will not shove my nature aside for your or anyone elses 'delicate sensibilities.' I suggest you grow a thicker skin, take the criticism as just that, and stop the amazingly insulting tactic you employ whereby you try to assign an attitude to me that I do not, in fact, possess. Once again (for the ninth or tenth time), my only concerns are that proper procedures be followed when applying tags (something, that in my humble opinion, should not happen for three to five days with a new article) so that other wikipedians are granted the right, not opportunity, to respond to those tags appropriately. If I made a mistake then I made a mistake. It is done, I cannot take it back, nor can I correct it. However, the guidelines and policies here are more important that I am, more important that my ability to post here, and more important that my continuing to be allowed to be here. In short I will risk banishment, if that's what it takes, to ensure that wikipedia remains accurate, neutral, and open for the dissemination of information. Finally, the nomination for deletion struck me as an attempt at censorship. I have never, nor will I ever, nominate any article for deletion. I find the concept repugnant. Thank you. William (Bill) Bean 04:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it might be useful for you to review the five pillars of Misplaced Pages and associated pages. You will find policies that strictly forbid personal attacks. You will find a policy that mandates assuming good faith on the part of other editors. You will NOT find a policy that mandates the rigid following of 'proper' procedures. But you will find a policy that mandates exactly the opposite.

I would also like to point out - again - that, just like your accusation that the AfD was placed improperly, your accusation that it was I who first placed the POV - was absolutely wrong. The edit where the POV tag was inserted: diff 01:03, 19 September 2007. My first edit to that article: diff 01:04, 19 September 2007.

Finally, I'd just like to note that although you find the idea of deletion of any article 'repugnant', another of Misplaced Pages's core policies is that Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information - therefore articles must sometimes deleted. Dlabtot 16:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm assuming this is the one you are referring to. Respect your fellow Wikipedians even when you may not agree with them. Be civil. Avoid making personal attacks or sweeping generalizations. Find consensus; avoid edit wars; follow the three-revert rule; and remember that there are 2,018,108 articles on the English Misplaced Pages to work on and discuss. Act in good faith, never disrupt Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point, and assume good faith on the part of others. Be open and welcoming.

Note the first sentence. Where have I been treated with respect? Civility is subjective. There are personal attacks and there are comments based on observations. I have stated that there is an obvious pattern of behavior that is easy to see. It's hard to find consensus when not even the slightest bit of acknowledgment is offered. I have not engaged in an edit war. I removed pov tags once and not touched the article since. I am trying to act in good faith; I cannot say the same for the rest of you. I'm not trying to disrupt wikipedia, but I do have a point to prove. The point is that if you hold my head to the floor with your boot I will fight you indefinitely. Finally, you could acknowledge that you attempted to put words in my mouth that I never voiced and admit that wasn't a very civil thing to do. William (Bill) Bean 23:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

"Finally, you could acknowledge that you attempted to put words in my mouth that I never voiced" -- you've made this accusation repeatedly. Could you please supply the diff of this alleged incident? If it happened, it was wrong, and I would readily acknowledge my error and apologize - that is, if it actually happened. Dlabtot 02:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

By way of clarification, the most common way you've characterized this accusation is that I've ascribed motives to you. For example: "Please note that my "incivility" started when I was accused of having an alternate motive for disputing a tag". I don't remember ascribing motives to you. But I do sometimes err, and, I even sometimes get upset and in the heat of my emotions, say things that I should not have said. I also suffer from a common human failing in that I tend to remember things in a way that paint myself in a favorable light, while giving short shrift to my flaws. However, I believe that one can try to learn from errors. Towards that end, a diff of the alleged incident would be helpful. tia Dlabtot 04:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I'm getting paranoid about my ability to lucidly ask questions, but I wanted to make sure that you understand that a very important part of the question I am asking, as well as the diff, is: What is the "alternative motive" that you believe I have ascribed to you? Again, I thank you in advance for your respectful reply. Dlabtot 05:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

If I made a mistake then I made a mistake. It is done, I cannot take it back, nor can I correct it. You can stop pursuing the matter. Please do so. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 19:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I had previously marked this as closed, but clearly I was being optimistic. Will someone please explain to William (Bill) Bean that everyone is expected to follow WP:CIVIL? This is beginning to get a bit disruptive. Thanks. --Bfigura 17:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

He seems like a good candidate for the adopt-a-user program. Clearly going on as presently isn't an option. At present he seems unable to apply to himself standards he demands from others. After talking about how I somehow insulted him, he claims Yes, I a brusque. That is my nature. I'm sorry you don't like it, but if I were to act in any other way I would not be true to my own nature. ... I will not shove my nature aside for your or anyone elses 'delicate sensibilities.' I suggest you grow a thicker skin ... Incredible. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 19:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

That might work, but it would require William (Bill) Bean's willing participation. But I concur, the willful violation of civility needs to halt if William (Bill) Bean is to continue as a productive editor. Not because it would interfere with the cabal, but because its disruptive. --Bfigura 20:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Dlabtot: Attributing a motive to me that I have never expressed is also a personal attack. Think about it.

ObiterDicta: You could acknowledge that my concerns have validity rather than dismissing them out of hand. You could also stop pursuing the matter yourself. Since this appears to be a test of egos it will likely continue.

--Bfigura: The disruption continues because I've been called on the carpet for YOUR standard of civility. As I've already stated I'm an American. Apparently some, if not all, of you are British. I do not live by British standards.

Finally you are all editors as I am. None of you are administrators. By what right does that give any of you any power to dictate my behavior or admonish me? I reject your any implication that you have authority over me. Indeed the only difference between yourselves and I is your specific choice of words. Beyond that you are just as "uncivil" as you claim that I am. e.g. But I concur, the willful violation of civility needs to halt if William (Bill) Bean is to continue as a productive editor. Who are you to determine what constitutes civility? And I was, and will continue to be, a productive editor long after you've grown bored with the place and left. William (Bill) Bean 22:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Since this appears to be a test of egos it will likely continue. No, it's you not understanding how the logs work and falsely accusing me of failing to list a nomination for deletion so as to hide it from the community. Anyway, I'm done with this. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 23:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thankfully I don't need to be an administrator to assert that you can't make personal attacks on Misplaced Pages. Feel free to read WP:NPA. And out of pure random curiosity, why do you feel that people here are british? (Not that I would see how that possible has any bearing, given that it's wikipedia's standard of civility that's being applied here). --Bfigura 01:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Allgoodnamesalreadytaken harrrassment, vandalism--2nd complaint

I previously made made a report on this user's stalking. etc. here: (This is the incomplete discussion...I can't figure out how to use the archives here.)

At the time, the advice was: 1) just ignore that kind of behavior, and 2) if you really believe he's a sockpupper, file a checkuser. I tried both.

He's lately gone beserk in his stalking and harrassment. He suggested atUser talk:Eusebeus that they "get an admin to look at this user's behavior, hopefully as a prelude to getting rid of him" (I made a WP:WQA about Eusebeus, thus Allgoodnames' hope for a sympathetic audience).

He reverted my edit to an article and summarized my edit as vandalism. My edit had removed some material added by Gtadoc (whom I have accused of being a sockpuppet of Allgoodnames).

He vandalised my Talk page, again making a false accuation of vandalism: (Oddly, nothing in the section he finds objectionable was written by me; it was put there either by Allgoodnames himself, or another user; I saved in case I needed documentation of certain behaviors).

He reverted my edit in a WP:BRD process with another editor, which was being discussed in Talk; a conversation in which he has not participated.

Here is the checkuser case (still opn, for now). Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Allgoodnamesalreadytaken It should probably be closed because the Gtadoc account hasn't been used for a month.

All of these harrassing edits have occurred in the last 24 hours, although there has been continual junk like this in the last few weeks, including what I documented in my previous notice here. He's obviously making it a point to check my User Contributions, and look for any dispute I might be having, and jump into it. Get him off my back. Bsharvy 06:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Bsharvy's complaint is largely merit and the good faith follow-up on his charges of WP:SOCK have all indicated that no policies have been violated and no foundation exists for action. OTOH, his behaviour - edit-warring, wikilawyering, and forum-shopping for his supposed grievances - needs sore redress. An admin should step in here and issue a warning of a block if this behaviour continues. Eusebeus 12:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Please, if an admin does read this, Bsharvy is desperately in need of a warning or block. Not only does he go around creating complaints all over the place about anyone who disagrees with him (I think he's up to 6 editers now he's tried to complain about somewhere with his profuse wikilawyering). Its past the point of being ridiculous. A quick scan of his edit history shows that he is exceptionally disruptive on the page Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and has recently begun erasing/trying to start edit wars on the related Hiroshima page. If anyone comments on his behavior its to him "harrrassment" (sic), even after he's been warned by admins in the past he's refused to let things drop or to alter his behavior...what will it take???? Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 19:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

He changed a heading name on my Talk page again, again titling the section a "record of my vandalism" (it contains 3 contributions from him, one comment from a neutral editor, and none from me). His comment above is fairly typical: no diffs, no attempt to actually back up what he says, but a whole lot of character maligning. He seems to have Bookmarked my User Contributions, and follows me around writing stuff like this. The more disruptive part is the constant reverts.Bsharvy 21:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the comments were untitled warnings about his vandalism pattern, mine he left, those of an admin he deleted long ago; he recently decided to censor them and reword my comments by putting his own titles to them, which would be the same as me editing someone else's comments anywhere else. As its his userpage he's welcome per policy to delete anything there he likes (he seems very good at deleting other's edits, even while trying to hide it, which I've labeled as vandalism and reverted when noticed) but he isn't free to edit others' past comments to make them say what he wants. As far as looking at his user contributions, since his only significant contribution has been to disrupt the page Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and to file complaints all over WP about editers he disagrees with there it seems the problem is more with him not wanting to own up for his past and current foul deeds. Every complaint he's left to date (which as Eusebeuscorrectly points out are meritless) on all the various notice boards have either been ignored, or when people take time to point out to him his inproper behavior he simply starts more arguments.Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 01:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

He has now vandalized my Talk page 3 times, and twice (by revert) in the last 24 hours., , .

• Allgoodnames, I an happy to propose a compromise. If you don't want the record of your "vandalism" warnings on my Talk page, you are welcome to remove them. You put the warnings there, you take them away. I won't complain. Edit: The other part would that you stop reverting without discussion here: , . Bsharvy 03:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to leave it in the origonal, or to remove it, its your talk page; however, editing others' comments to suit your likes is not acceptable, as you've already been told. For the Hiroshima page...well, isn't it enough that you've gotten one page locked over your edit warring? As it is I'll make sure it says what the sources say, and no...you don't count as a source...not that this is really relevent to this page/topic... Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 08:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

So much for compromise. I do wonder how we are supposed to know when admins care and when they don't, since they don't seem to care about the vandalism and harrassment here. Or do I misunderstand the policies... Bsharvy 08:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Or do I misunderstand the policies an eminent wikilawyer like you? Surely not! Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 15:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Site plagiarising Criticism of Family Guy

This Geocities page is using Misplaced Pages content to generate ad revenue, and displays none of the GFDL stuff. http://www.geocities.com/againstfamilyguy/

Is this worth reporting, and if so where? Name given, but no contact info or linkage. All text below the image is copied from Criticism of Family Guy. Image is leeched from en.wikipedia.org.

Geocities copyvio contact: copyright@yahoo-inc.com / edg ☺ ★ 07:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks like this has been resolved already? I don't see any Misplaced Pages content on the page -- must have been removed? — xDanielx /_C 07:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The three short paragraphs are from Misplaced Pages, and the image is being leeched from Misplaced Pages's servers. I realise this isn't the crime of the century. Do we care at all? / edg ☺ ★ 07:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the text is taken from Family_Guy#Criticism, verbatim. / edg ☺ ★ 07:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. Realistically, I think the page passes fairly cleanly as fair use -- it is (sort of) being used for informational purposes, the use of the material is uncompetitive with Misplaced Pages's use of the same material, neither use involved any profit for the author (the ads were from Geocities), and the material copied is not very substantial. It would probably fail Misplaced Pages's fair use standards miserably, particularly the image, but other sites are bound by much looser, arguably more real-world standards. If you really want it removed though, Geocities might be willing to go ahead and nuke it anyway, as they're probably covered by a termination clause of some sort. — xDanielx /_C 07:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I was thinking it might be fair use, but didn't know. Thanks much. / edg ☺ ★ 07:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• It's not clear to me why we need a separate article, unless it's to contain criticism too however minor and insignificant for the main article. In which case, of course... Guy (Help!) 12:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• I am responsible for the website, I have read your complaints, and removed the wikipedia article. Although I read http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License and I assumed that anybody can copy a wikipedia article without copyright infringment. Also I make no money from the site, the ads in the left corner of the page is geocities and not mine. I have taken the wikipedia article off but i do wish to put it on again but I dont want to cause trouble. 124.184.184.195 04:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• You can copy it--just make sure to both give attribution (link back to the original article) and link to the text of the license. —Dark•Shikari 06:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Iron maiden, yet again

ZOMG, what a WP:LAME. Few days ago I innocently closed Talk:Iron maiden (torture device)#Requested move quoting WP:NC(P) as "no move", and redirected iron maiden to the band. Then the roof fell in, and the iron maiden had some 15 reverts since. Reginmund (talk · contribs), who seems to be the most vocal supporter of redirect to the torture device, broke WP:3RR in the process (not reported, apparently).
Since I'm now semi-involved in the matter (dragged in, actually), I'm reluctant to apply protection, hand out some blocks, and so on; I'm not even positive that my interpretation of policy is correct (or is it subject to multiple interpretations) (see Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (precision)). Can someone lean a helping hand in settling the matter down? Duja► 07:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Protected. Since blocks are not supposed to be punitive, I suggest the appropriate punishment for the revert-warriors should be done in some other suitable form. Either referent of "Iron maiden" (application of the device, or forced listening to the band for 24 hours) springs to mind. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Iron maiden was pointed to the apparatus before this RM and I already had a long discussion with a fan of the band whom apparently took offence to me pointing it to its original usage. At least the redirect gives a more specific meaning but we have these grammatical and spelling factors everywhere. Do we really need to disambiguate Apollo Theatre and Apollo Theatre because we're to lazy to spell or in this case, capitalise depending on our destination? Maybe when writing in a message board, not an encyclopaedia. Reginmund 23:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Iron maiden only redirected to the apparatus because that's where you redirected it. Your initial edit to the redirect sparked the first edit war; for the six months prior to that it only ever redirected to the band or the dab page. PC78 16:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• This seems to be a case for letting plain Iron maiden be the disambig page. Anthony Appleyard 16:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I had already discussed earlier with another Wikipedian as to why the redirect should point to the apparatus and not the band. Now what happpened? The move request had nothing to do with the redirect but replacing it. Reginmund 16:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Please don't continue the content dispute here. Let's keep the debate in whichever forum it was, okay? Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Inasmuch as the band was named for the torture device, it would seem that the latter has greater precedence. (Or should "Zeppelin" lead to the band rather than the airship?) Askari Mark (Talk) 18:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Halloween jack and User:Crescentia have made repeated personal attacks on me

This started when Jack called me "just another example of the hopelessly Aspergersfied dark side of Misplaced Pages", because he felt I was adding too many tags. I left him a message on his talk page telling him I found this out of line, and asked him to stop it, but he just added tags to the message I left, as a way to mock me.

Meanwhile Crescentia took my request to not be personally attacked as a joke saying "Dear god. Sensitive much?", and later said about me "It's really sad when you think about it. I wish I had that much time to waste". This is getting to the point where I do not look forward to coming on to wikipedia because these two will keep saying vicious things about me. Hoponpop69 14:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

You are looking at other peoples' talk pages looking for info about yourself. Nothing was said on YOUR talk page, or directly to you. My 'sensitive much' comment was made by me because I was amazed that somebody would take the effort to go looking for information about themselves and then threaten a person with admin penalties. What we say on our talk pages is pretty much our business and not yours. You are just looking to get people in trouble at this point. If ANYBODY goes around the internet looking for things said about themselves they would probably find something negative. I bet that I could find something negative about me online right now if I spent the time looking for such information. I don't though, because I woulf find that to be a waste of time.It does take a lot of time and effort to go around looking for negative things, and that is what I meant by that second statement. You are probably angry because people called you out on your over eager citation history. You should just let things go at this point. Crescentia 15:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Hoponpop69 had been having an active discussion with you on your talk page. How hard do you think he had to look to see the section below it? In any case, there is no reason why civil wouldn't apply on your talk page, even if you didn't plan on the person you are talking about seeing it. --Onorem♠Dil 17:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

He kept adding info on my page about a person he helped get banned who happened to help me out earlier. It was like he was tattling on the person to me. How was that an active conversation? He's looking to get people in trouble. Why can't I say what I want to say on MY talk page? I wasn't talking to him, I was talking to somebody else. Why should he be allowed to report a converstaion that didn't even involve him?Crescentia 17:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say it was a productive conversation, but he had been leaving messages for you, and you had been responding to him. That sounds like an active conversation to me. The talkpage has your name on it. That doesn't make it yours. Please see WP:USER for more. --Onorem♠Dil 17:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

So, let me get this straight, I am not allowed to say whatever I wish on MY talk page because somebody who has a vandetta against me MIGHT look at it and get offended? That is simply ridculous. It is obvious, at least to me, that he is just looking to get me in trouble. He said in an earlier dispute that he was angry that I didn't QUOTE '...at least get a slap on the wrist'. Am I going to have to look over my shoulder every time that I write something on Wiki?Crescentia 18:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, at this point I am very willing to totally ignore him if he promises to do the same. That means not following me all over Wiki to see what I have posted.Crescentia 18:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression people pointed you to the template citation request so you would no longer be adding numerous individual citation tags?--SevenOfDiamonds 14:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I just informed Halloween Jack of this thread so they can respond (I'd inform Crescentia too, but that's clearly unnecessary). EVula // talk // ☯ // 16:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

IMO he's just pissed off because we called him out on making source requests to an excessive degree that amounts to trolling. I never insulted him directly and haven't even posted anything on his talk page, but he's happy to scan others' userpages to make sure no one's saying anything that he can claim is offending or attacking him, in order to use it as leverage in a war over how many words in every sentence of every article need to be followed by a citation.

You'll notice that I answered many of his tags with legit citations. I never reverted the page in question (deathrock), and I only removed his tags when he put them in places that linked to other articles with their own citations, or added a tag to a reiteration of a sourced statement earlier in the article. (For example, we don't need a source to "prove" that deathrock is not related to death metal when the death metal page explains its own musical origins, and we don't need a source to prove that Theatre of Ice had deathrock influence when that page has its own citations.) I expressed my frustration over this pedantry to Crescentia, but Hoponpop is the one who's making it personal now that he's been called out on his asinine editing behavior. --Halloween jack 19:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• "For example, we don't need a source to "prove" that deathrock is not related to death metal when the death metal page explains its own musical origins, and we don't need a source to prove that Theatre of Ice had deathrock influence when that page has its own citations."

I'm pretty sure the fact that that info is cited on a seperate page is not an excuse not to provide a source. Maybe we can get an admin's word on this.

Regardless this issue isn't about me adding citations tags, it's about you personally attacking me. The fact that you're doing it behind my back, not on my talkpage, still does not justify your actions. Hoponpop69 20:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, yes. Your blatant trolling, refusal to discuss edits, skirting the edges of revert violations, and "nyah nyah, look what I did to your buddy" comments on Crescentia's page are completely irrelevant, of course. And now, of course, you're saying that a comment about your ridiculous edits on another user's page is "attacking you behind your back." I can't way to see how you'll twist this comment around to claim that you were seriously hurt. --Halloween jack 21:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

No, this is about you not being able to let things go. Just....let...it...go. I can't believe that you are STILL arguing about the content on the Deathrock page.Crescentia 22:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• I'll say this once more since you can't seem to accept it, this is about you two attacking me. It has nothing to do with the deathrock page, or anything else.

And as far as me "doing something" to User: Daddy Kindsoul, he "did it to himself" by getting blocked over 25 times and then violating his parole. Hoponpop69 23:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

No, it has everything to do with it, and your trollish editing behavior. You added an excessive number of tags, and added tags where they're totally unneeded. You responded to the addition of sources by scouring the page for more places to add unnecessary tags. You've asked for multiple citations within a single sentence, demanding more citations on a page that already has about 1 per 50 words. Oh, and you didn't bother to make any mention on the talk page before adding all these tags, and refused to discuss your decision to do so until other users got after you about it repeatedly. You've done everything possible to bait other users, and now you're crying foul. It's an extremely transparent tactic and I doubt you're fooling anyone; certainly not myself. Quit the shrill whinging about a comment about your editing behavior that was posted on another user's page and wasn't even directed to you as if it were a physical assault or a death threat or something equally serious and dramatic. I spent a few words mocking you for your foolishness and the rest of the time improving the article; you, meanwhile, would rather just drop tags all over the place and then whine about users who get fed up with your combative behavior as they try to improve articles to your satisfaction. If you really care about adding "much needed" content to Misplaced Pages, then discuss and justify your edits on the article's talk page.--Halloween jack 00:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't have said it better myself.Crescentia 00:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

So, you didn't post about User: Daddy Kindsoul being banned on my talk page to goad me? In fact you actually tried to start an argument about it. Here is the proof. The heading that he created in MY talk page about this is Just To Let You Know:

The Daddy is currently on arbitration for consistently abusing reverts. Between his current and older username, he has been blocked 26 times. Hoponpop69 19:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Mostly because he has been reverting edits that don't make sense.Crescentia 19:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Really? How about giving me some examples then of him getting banned for reverting things that don't make sense? Hoponpop69 19:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Since this is my talk page I don't have to bow down to you. It's obvious that you don't like the guy, so why should I play up to you about him.Crescentia 19:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

As the title of this subsection says, I was just letting you know. Hoponpop69 19:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

FYI it's now 27, he's just been blocked for a year. Hoponpop69 01:53, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

You're reminding me of a ten year old who tells on people and then brags about it.Crescentia 12:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)Crescentia 00:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• Um when did I ever deny posting about him?

Hoponpop69 00:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

So you admit to trying to bait me into an argument? Nice.Crescentia 00:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• No I admit to trying to inform you that you may not want to trust someone who's been banned close to 30 times.

Hoponpop69 00:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't buy that, because a simple look on your talk page reveals that the two of you had many squabbles in the past.Crescentia 00:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• Exactly, he was wiki-stalking me which is what let him to your talk page.

Hoponpop69 00:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• While your ongoing squabble is all very interesting, what exactly do you want admins to do here? I'm pretty sure all parties are well-aware that saying mean things about other people is not very nice and they should stop. Beyond that, I don't really see what you want here. --Haemo 00:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• I'd like to see a 24 hour ban for incivility.

Hoponpop69 00:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• "You responded to the addition of sources by scouring the page for more places to add unnecessary tags. You've asked for multiple citations within a single sentence, demanding more citations on a page that already has about 1 per 50 words."

So all of a sudden when an article has a source per every 50 words, any unsourced content on it can fly by? Furthermore I have never put a sourced tag on something that I felt was unnecessary. Hoponpop69 00:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Your feelings about whether or not the tags were necessary is none of my concern. My comments as regards my removal of some of your tags are on the talk page; you can discuss and debate them there. --Halloween jack 00:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• Okay, that's quite enough of this. If you would be so kind, summarize what you want the admins to do about this. I think everyone is well aware that saying mean things is not nice, so don't do it. What else? --Haemo

• As I said earlier, I feel a 24 hour ban for incivility (after being given a warning) on Halloween jack's part would be justified.Hoponpop69 01:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

A warning from whom? You? --Halloween jack 01:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• Yes.Hoponpop69 01:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any warning, except for the complaint you made just before posting this thread. So, Halloween jack, here's your warning — be nicer to other users even when you think they aren't listening. I'd also suggest you avoid Hoponpop69, and vice-versa. Anyways, I'm not blocking anyone here because blocks are not punitive and I'm sure everyone will watch what they say from now on, right? --Haemo 01:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed.Crescentia 01:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You are not an administrator so you have no authority to ban anybody.Crescentia 01:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• Who me?Hoponpop69 01:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Concerned about personal commentary from User:A Kiwi

I am very concerned about the personal speculation and commentary made by User:A Kiwi here on Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Asperger syndrome , , , , , ' and here on User talk:Eubulides, and .

I feel that this speculation (which is often wildly incorrect, and has involved named third parties) and commentary is an invasion of my privacy that I am not comfortable with, but, more importantly, is utterly irrelevant to Misplaced Pages, and adds nothing to the discussion where it is posted. I wonder could somebody take a look and see what they think? --Zeraeph 15:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not seeing much more than a not particularly decorous discussion, but without any further history I cannot say I see anything bad or actionable. Have you discussed with A Kiwi (on his talkpage) how the debate is making you uncomfortable? LessHeard vanU 21:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

My greatest problem is with the degree to which this is sidelining the real discussion of the article Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Asperger syndrome into total irrelevancies. It will be a contentious and complex enough discussion without that.

I'm not too bothered by the personal references yet, but, on the other hand, I have a gut feeling that it CANNOT possibly be ok for A Kiwi to speculate (wrongly), from among article sources, about who my personal physician is (or how familiar he is with my home), while informing the world that she has just got off the phone with him, from thousands of miles away. I will try discussing it on her talk page. --Zeraeph 21:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Zeraeph, you opened the door by discussing those personal details on the article talk page and using personal info as part of the article discussion with respect to the featured article review. Discussion of your personal diagnoses and physicians were less than inappropriate on the article talk page, and verged into Essjay controversy territory anyway. I suggest that both you and A Kiwi could benefit from reading and understanding Misplaced Pages's talk page guidelines (not only with respect to not using article talk pages as a chat forum, but also with respect to proper threading of conversations and NOT HOLLERING and better use of edit summaries); you're a more experienced editor than A Kiwi is, and you should have known that discussing your personal diagnoses and physicians on an article talk page isn't wise. Because you made this info part of the article discussion, I can't say A Kiwi has committed any offense. I suppose you've let A Kiwi know that you're talking about her on AN/I, as a courtesy? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Sandy, please try to be a little more accurate. I did not "discuss" anything of the kind, I simply, ill-advisedly, made a single passing reference ("I am a fully (Micheal Fitzgerald, no less) dx'ed Aspie" ) which A Kiwi has turned into speculation that Simon (presumeably) Baron-Cohen (who I have never met) diagnosed me and is familiar with my home, and then that Michael Fitzgerald is my personal physician. --Zeraeph 23:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

PS. You still haven't explained how so many personal references and speculations about myself are relevant to Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Asperger syndrome? --Zeraeph 23:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

They weren't relavant on the article talk page discussion either, where you first brought them up. A Kiwi has retracted and apologized everywhere for her mixup of Drs Baron-Cohen and Fitzgerald (two physicians with the same specialty operating in relatively close geographic proximity), so that's done. The best thing for both of you to do is to stop discussing personal matters on article talk pages (remember your two Yorkies, your recent car wreck, and so on), and instead focus on reliable sources, and learning to properly thread comments and use talk pages for discussing article improvement. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure; if you use article talk pages and your diagnoses to throw weight into a discussion, you can't expect that info not to resurface later. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sandy, I would really appreciate it if you would stop trying to "micro manage" and dictate my editing. It is not appropriate for you to do so. It is also totally irrelevant to the discussion here of User:A Kiwi persistent discussion of what she imagines to be personal detail of my life on Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Asperger syndrome. Though I am flattered that you have found the time to trawl through weeks of edit histories to find so many personal references to my life to post here. However, I suggest you read WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA and remember to discuss content, not personalities in future please? --Zeraeph 00:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Take it easy there, Zeraeph. I don't need to trawl through anything; I remember the posts as they were inappropriate on talk pages, where article improvement is discussed. Reminding you that both of you can avoid taking admin time on these kinds of issues and make talk page discussion easier for everyone by reading WP:TALK, a Wiki guideline, is not micromanaging. It was your mistake to make personal info part of an article discussion; I wish both of you would focus on article content more. Take the last word if you'd like. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

My apologies, I am afraid I have never been interested enough in you to return the favor and keep ongoing mental notes about you in that way.

I honestly do not think it is for you to dictate what use is made of admin time any more than it is for you to try and dictate and micromanage my editing and discussion style.

Back to the real point, I am concerned by A Kiwi's personal speculations about and references to myself are monopolising Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Asperger syndrome. When I do come to WP:AN/I to seek advice I prefer not to lead, but rather to leave anyone kind enough to take an interest to view the situation with an open mind. It had occurred to me that an open mind might see some advantage in archiving the personal references and speculations in the name of simplifying the discussion, but I am not sure, because that seems like "gagging" User:A Kiwi's opinions on the article and I would be uncomfortable with that. I am not sure, that is why I ask.

I am also concerned as to whether the more personal speculations are crossing any lines. She is not doing me any harm, yet, but, on the other hand WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA clearly specify that content should be discussed, not personalities, and besides, so far her speculations have often been wildly inaccurate, leaving me with a choice between cluttering up an FAR with refutations that are irrelevant to it, or being misrepresented. --Zeraeph 00:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Though I could not fully understand the references in her response (she states she is unwell elsewhere and may be a little muddled), User:A Kiwi does seem willing to desist from the personal references and speculation that I felt were inappropriate and uncomfortable. She has also made a seperate, far more objective comment , and may well now be amenable to the personal speculations being archived to simplify the discussion if anyone thinks that is appropriate? --Zeraeph 17:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Bit of a weird case ...

Jonny Cache (talk · contribs) has a sockpuppet warning on his User page which, until today, identified him as an indefinitely blocked puppet of Jon Awbrey (talk · contribs). The logs of the User: page show the account being created on 25 August 2006, and Jonny being blocked on 2 September 2006 - indefinitely. However, looking at Jonny's user logs shows only the account creation today, and his contributions are pure vandalism (either that or admitting that he's a sockpuppet of a user whose account was created in June and has no visible contributions). Can someone please explain to me and/or block the user properly? Cheers, Confusing Manifestation 16:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Um, ah, User:Jonny Cake is not necessarily the same as User:Jonny Cache. --jpgordon 16:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah. That would explain it. And would also explain why I kept wanting to type "Cake" instead of "Cache" ... I thought I was just getting hungry. Confusing Manifestation 16:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

LOL Oh dear, that's funny! :-D Thanks for the laugh, CM. Now, go and have a nice piece of cake :) Sarah 16:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• And since Jonny Cake (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is very obviously here only for trolling, I have blocked that account as well. Guy (Help!) 17:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Miyokan in persistent edit warring

I have already reported this user multiple times, and he has been blocked multiple times for edit warring. Nearly every time I check this user's contributions, he has been reverting other users. Once again, he has managed to barely thread the letter of the law on World War II, doing 4 reverts within 24 hours and 30 minutes. Could someone please hand out an extended block on this user? Please note that his former username is User:Ilya1166, which he abandoned probably in order to get rid of the block log . The Evil Spartan 17:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I would certainly have considered doing so; given the block log on his prior account he's clearly well aware of 3RR and gaming it. However, another admin already protected the page, so a block at this point would be punitive rather than preventive. I'm going to defer blocking him. If it becomes a problem again, you can report him to WP:AN3 with a link to his prior block log; most admins will take into account if a user appears to be gaming the system by reverting 4 times in 24.001 hours. MastCell 18:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

In full disclosure, I saw that prior to my full-protecting for a day. I took a long look at him, and all the other editors, and decided that it would be hard to block him without doing so to several others who were just a little less close to 24 hrs but nearly as active, and that if I had to block 4-6 accounts over something maybe just protecting the article for a bit was more likely to actually cool down the argument. Georgewilliamherbert 00:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Genesis Vandal on Evolution

Accounts include, but are probably not limited to: Loom yellow (talk · contribs) Payp two (talk · contribs) Ray vivid (talk · contribs) Raz grime (talk · contribs) Scen heal (talk · contribs) Furry great (talk · contribs) Tlame (talk · contribs) Staam (talk · contribs) Grooy (talk · contribs) Eve oft (talk · contribs)

All follow the exact same modus operandi - they replace the Evolution article (and the user pages/talk pages of contributors to it) with the first two chapters of Genesis, switching accounts as they get blocked. Evolution is semi-protected, so this is clearly a premeditated attack, since accounts must age long enough to bypass the semi-protection.

Anything we can do? Adam Cuerden 17:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Did you try checkuser yet? Try full-protecting again for 6 hours; it's only for a few hours, and probably wouldn't constitute wheel warring (I would do it for you, but I don't have a bit next to my username). The Evil Spartan 18:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I put in an WP:RFPP request; I can file a CU request if you want me to. -Jéské 18:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm already on it. Raul654 18:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks to be a reincarnation of this guy Raul654 18:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Article's been locked down for six hours; that should be enough time to block any offenders (if they are Witt socks). -Jéské 18:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I didn't do a checkuser because the relationship was so obvious and I didn't know it could be used for further protection =) Adam Cuerden 18:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Checkuser may (as in this case) find other sleepers or an underlying IP that can be blocked, so it may be useful to contact a checkuser even though it is obvious sockpuppetry. (Raul has got this one taken care of for now.) Thatcher131 03:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Right. I shall remember that in future. Adam Cuerden 09:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

That reminds me, Raul... Any sleepers? -Jéské 18:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I found several and terminated them. Raul654 22:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Protection review on Talk:Mousepad

Looking for review of my actions by an uninvolved admin(s). The article Mousepad has been under attack for a time by an IP hopping anon that wants to add unverifiable claims of the origin/invention of the product to the page. After the article was long-term semi-protected a while back, he took his crusade to the article's talk page, and has been wildly violating NPA and BLP there since. The NPA comes from calling other editors liars and "Plageism pushers" in talk and edit comments. BLP violations come from his unverified accusations of plagerism against others who may (or may not) have invented the product separately.

Blocking this person over the violations has not proved effective, because he shifts IPs wildly, and not within a small range either. It is also suspected that the anon is either Mr. Fernandez himself, one of the claiments to having invented the product, or someone close to him. Apparently this is not a short-term crusade, and has been waged across the net for a year or more, with WP being only the latest flash-point. So I suspect that the person behind the IP is not going to go away any time soon.

This morning I took the step of semi-protecting the talk page itself, because of the constant NPA and BLP violations. It is this action that I specifically place up for review, as I know protecting of talk pages is not generally done. But at this point I'm at a loss for any other way to deal with this editor, given his IP hopping makes blocking ineffective. I've set the semi-protection for only 2 weeks, but if he's as persistant as I suspect, I beleive this will just flare up once again after that time. But I'm hesitant to protect talk pages for longer than that. But it may be necessary. But.... <sigh> - TexasAndroid 18:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I recall this matter being bought up previously. Since it appears that this is a sustained campaign the sprotecting the article appears to be a judicious decision. If you are up to the task, I think short bursts of semi protects when necessary may deter this individual. LessHeard vanU 21:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

From what I have seen, this is the best solution. The guy just keeps on nagging and repeating the same thing over and over again, and isn't even happy that the article contains a fairly large mention of his claim in the history section already, even though it is doubtful (or at least not verifiable by secondary sources) that there is anything to his claim, while there is a lot of evidence for the other (older) claims. If there is any undue weight in the article, it is in favor of his point of vierw, not against it, and it is very clear that his opinion is not supported by any consensus and that he has exhausted the patience of the people on that talkpage. Semi-protect away, it is hoepfully the best solution. Fram —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

An ongoing campaign over who should get credit for inventing ... the mousepad??? Do I see another example of WP:LAME? TexasAndroid, IMHO you made the least disruptive reponse possible; if another anon needs to make good-faith comments, we'll re-evaluate this then. Let's hope this person takes this crusade elsewhere. -- llywrch 22:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't qualify - a single person that tries pushing his own view, accuses others of being POV-pushers and/or censors, and posts obviously unsubstantiated claims is no different than any other troll. In particular, only the regular users were willing to accept change and escalated the issue when it was going out of hand (to have the page protected, etc.) The anonymous vandal, as you can tell from his posts, made no such attempt at escalation. BTW, the same anon made changes to other wikipedia articles claiming invention as well, including the french version (which I removed by redirecting the article.) You can see which versions are affected through a simple Google search. --Sigma 7 23:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

AIV

There have been a couple of reports at WP:AIV that have been there for over an hour while other newer reports have been removed. Can someone please take care of these reports? Thanks! --ElKevbo 19:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if they're the same ones, but there were a couple of reports lingering where the editor had not yet received a final warning, or had been inactive since given the final warning. Anyway, list is clear for the moment. -- Satori Son 20:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Reports that hang around AIV usually have issues that the responding admin is trying to resolve. Dean Wormer 20:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

A conspiracy?

Hi, Admins! I’m sorry I complain about a lot of things. But this time is different. Shot info, a user. I sent him a message and he does not respond instead he deleted it. He is been a member of a group. A conspiracy or cabal has formed. You could see the membership being on his user page. He rudely told me once –“ever heard of sarchasm??” and just becaused I asked what the conspiracy all about once he said “editors who write poorly ask these questions”. Who was he to talk about my editing. I am tired of this. Please! Block him for a month!--19:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• While the user in question doesn't exactly seem over-endowed with AGF, I don't see anything here that requires admin action. ELIMINATORJR 19:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

  There is no cabal. 68.219.123.8 20:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

In this case, there does seem to be a cabal, but it only contains one member. Dean Wormer 20:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Would that make it a unicabal, a monocabal or simply an autocabal? Edison 21:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

An autocabal is when you block yourself. (Yes, I have done that.) Raymond Arritt 21:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if I am 3RR'ing or reverting per consensus

I have no "dog in this fight" so I figure I would ask before I go any further. On Fred Thompson (The guy running for the US president), a weak consensus was developed on the talk page regarding his name. A comment was made in the article page to see the talk page for the name. Today quite a few Anons have been changing it to the non-consensus version and I have been reverting them. Right now, I have 4 reverts on that page and would like to get a little admin insight before I find myself too far on the wrong end of the 3RR rule. Thanks Spryde 20:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It's basically spirit vs. letter. I would personally not block you (were I an admin) due to a consensus already been reached on the talk - I acutally think in some cases such as these that "enforcing consensus (policy)" should be an exception. Will 20:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

If it's against consensus, it's considered something close to vandalism, right? --əˈnongahy ♫Look What I've Done!♫ 20:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but not the 3RR-exception "simple/obvious vandalism" Will 20:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Exactly.. working against consensus, but it's not simple/obvious vandalism, since Consensus Can Change. The only exception to the 3RR is if you're removing clear vandalism or a BLP Violation. (Ie, someone page blanking or replacing an article with "X is a Poopy Head") SirFozzie 20:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Can someone point out where consensus was made? It looks like it's still being discussed if you ask me. --əˈnongahy ♫Look What I've Done!♫ 20:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It appears so. Like I said, I have no vested interest (or care for that matter. I just want to make sure what we have is "right" and matched what WP:BLP says about names. Spryde 21:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

More in the other section, but the IPs are more than welcome to start discussion again, as noted. --Ali'i 21:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe that that is the same person editing with different IPs, not several different IP users. --əˈnongahy ♫Look What I've Done!♫ 21:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

(unindenting) Two additional points: 1) The named editors on the non-consensus side have NOT been changing the name. It is anonymous editors who did not participate in the discussion who are changing the names. 2) There is a hidden comment right next to the name. It tells editors that there was a consensus, that they should discuss the issue on the talk page before changing the name. The editors are violating good faith by: a) not going to talk and trying to develop a new consensus, and b) deleting the hidden comment. (Disclosure: I had a slight preference for the consensus but would have accepted the alternative outcome. I would enforce the consensus either way.) Sbowers3 21:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the page was fully protected for a week. I guess there will be no edit warring for a while. --əˈnongahy ♫Look What I've Done!♫ 21:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• At least the last half dozen IP's involved in editing the article are Tor proxies, probably the same editor. I'm reporting them all to AIV. - Crockspot 23:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• All blocked for a few days each. The protection can probably be rolled back to semi. - Crockspot 00:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed and done. Doesn't look like the IPs had any real interest in discussing this issue. Looks like this is resolved for now.--Kubigula (talk) 03:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User Lord Loxley making homophobic remarks and being disruptive

In the article James I of England, here, here and in the edit summary here, followed by some edit warring. I think he needs a talking too and possibly a cooldown Artw 22:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually he's turned up the volume a little now, to the point where it's pretty apparent he's a troll. I request a ban. Artw 22:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you should read the talk page all the way through. Apparently, people tried to do what you are doing now before, only to be rebuked by others for undue weight and POV pushing. Now that the rebukers aren't paying attention, you are trying to weaselly insert your propaganda in order to make a point, disrupting Misplaced Pages and defying the rules you supposedly care about in requesting assassination of my character. You lot are hoodlums of the homosexual type, that is all. Lord Loxley 22:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you're really helping your case much. Artw 22:21, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Considering we now have a WP:3RR violation as well as a personal attack, I also ask for at least a temporary block. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• See here: User_talk:RucasHost#Caveat_on_James Lord Loxley 22:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• • BTW, it is not I who is going around inserting POV to support my personal lifestyle, regardless of whether that may be straight, gay or asexual. Activism and historical revisionism have no place on Misplaced Pages. Please make a not of that and cease your vandalism at once! Lord Loxley 22:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Lord Loxley should be blocked for the insanely intemperate comments in his edit summaries. Calling his opponents "Pansy Division" and "Queer Brigade" should cause him to be shown the door. Corvus cornix 22:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

(Oh, the irony! Pansy Division being a major exponent of Queercore; a homophobe namechecking major gay icons by mistake. Precious! LessHeard vanU 13:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC) )

I've indefinitely blocked this user after examination of his/her block log; they were last blocked for 1 month by Neil with the comment, "Attempting to harass other users: stonge and racist personal attacks, final warning before indef block." The behavior has clearly continued here, so I followed through. I invite review of my action. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 22:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thoroughly support your action :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I support this block having looked at Lord Loxley's block history and the recent "discussion" on the talkpage in question. I'm not sure it can really be called discussion - Loxley is pressed for explanation of his edit warring and provides none, merely attacking all those with an opposing view. His aggressive attitude, inability to compromise and unwillingess to follow NPOV are unacceptable. Given the block history, reform seems unlikely. WjBscribe 22:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I support the block. This user's behaviour was beyond the pale and he had every opportunity to reform if he was going to. Good job. --John 22:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Could somebody please check out what Lord Loxley has added to his Talk page? I can't even see it, my browser just shuts down. Corvus cornix 22:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Very odd. I can't check it either... -- Satori Son 22:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

He has created a 1.4MB wikipedia page -- which obviously causes problems for many browsers. (Can you say "massive buffer overflow"?) What the page itself contains ... I think it's safe to presume that it's not an apology. -- llywrch 23:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Considering the edits he had just made to his Talk page after having been blocked, and before he added the 1.4 megs, was to call his opponents "faggots", no, I don't think it was an apology. Corvus cornix 23:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it's giving MediaWiki problems, since both Lynx and wget download it as a zero-byte file. --Carnildo 23:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

If you care, he typed 1.4 megs of "FAGGOTS FAGGOTS FAGGOTS" to replace his page. Anyways, I think this is resolved. --Haemo 00:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Hueneme High School

Could somebody please semi-protect Hueneme High School? It's getting vandalized faster than I can revert it. Corvus cornix 22:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Semiprotected for 1 day, hopefully that's long enough for them to get bored — iridescent (talk to me!) 22:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The IPs come from all over the country. They must have been sent here from some board. Corvus cornix 22:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Jvalant and User:Bobby Awasthi tendentious and disruptive edits on Indian Rebellion of 1857 and its talk page

• Jvalant (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Bobby Awasthi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

• Filed by: Hserus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Classic pattern of tendentious editing.. they have a right wing indian nationalist POV of the 1857 events, and have at various times -

1. Campaigned - very abrasively - to rename it "First War of Indian Independence" - even moved the page

2. Routinely revert any edits that dont agree with their world view, calling it "communist propaganda" - http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_Rebellion_of_1857&diff=159210070&oldid=158687695 for example.

3. This one here is a crack about me being "a janitor of email inboxes" - well yes, postmaster at a large ISP with 40 million accounts does qualify as that, I dare say. New sig fodder, yay. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AIndian_Rebellion_of_1857&diff=159363026&oldid=159362905

4. This little war where User:Jvalant insists on referring to people from England as "Britishers" -

I suggest we use the term "First War of Indian Independence" which is how we in India refer to our history in the news or in the text books etc. "Rebellion" sounds unprofessional (an American) and Mutiny too sounds racist (British). Jvalant 19:05, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

5. This discussion too - after their using a hindi language newspaper as a source, with erroneous articles - and claiming "yes it is a valid source as more people read it than people do the Times" http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Indian_Rebellion_of_1857#Hindi_Newspapers

etc etc.

User:Jvalant does seem to have attracted the attention of wikipedia admins before - http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Jvalant#warned for a previous set of edit wars, whereupon he immediately accuses the admin who warned him, User:Ragib of "misusing admin clout". http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Ragib&curid=605324&diff=84141302&oldid=84132125

Ditto User:Bobby Awasthi - here's his view of the edits http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Bobby_Awasthi&action=edit&section=19 and a possibly related autoblock - http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Bobby_Awasthi#Unblock_Autoblock

Hserus - why only the half truths? Wasn't the janitor comment as a response to your comment about me contributing "half-baked history". A completely unwarranted comment since all I had done was ask for a source. And I've never insisted on referring to anyone as Britishers - I merely said that it is a valid term. At least try and make sense when you complain. The "right wing" accusation is classic. As if demanding sources for the British POV in the article makes me "right wing" Jvalant 04:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Personal attack on myself and Jimmy Wales by User:Shutterbug

A violation of WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF against myself and Jimmy Wales right here:--Fahrenheit451 01:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's not very nice. However, this is not the personal attacks noticeboard — you're looking for WP:WQA instead. --Haemo 01:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, not nice and perhaps ill-considered but a response to clear baiting by F451 and Shutterbug removed it himself without prompting within minutes. This is just more time-wasting and trolling for punishment of his enemies by F451. See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive235#Possible Vandalism from User:COFS. F451, if I can give you a word of not-unfriendly advice, why not just stop this disruptive and time-wasting behavior of trying to get your "enemies" in trouble and just edit the encyclopedia? Just say NO to directing negative attention to other editors. --Justanother 12:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

If someone's wasting time, being disruptive, and not contributing to the encyclopedia very much, ban them. Why are we so lenient on troublesome users? — Omegatron 12:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Fahrenheit451 has a history of less than civil interactions with people that are believed to be editing in a pro (that is, not anti)Scientology manner, with the frequent accusation that this is because they are Scientologists or otherwise acting under Scientology orders. Fahrenheit451 has previously been advised stop using affiliation as a reason for their comments, and I have also made comments regarding inappropriate edits. While I realise that all opinions have a right to be represented within an article (per NPOV) I do not believe that pursuing that opinion against other contributors within the article talkpages is allowable. I have to recuse myself, but I would appreciate if another admin looks over Fahrenheit451's conduct in respect of this area of WP. LessHeard vanU 13:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I clicked on F's contributions to try to do a little light reviewing per LessHeard's request, and immediately got diverted by something odd-looking. Fahrenheit has posted this complaint and diff which you see here, identically worded, six times: here on WP:ANI, on Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/COFS/Proposed decision, on Requests for arbitration/COFS/Evidence, on Wikiquette alerts, on Talk:Jimmy Wales, AND on User talk:Jimbo Wales. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but basically I don't like the look of it. Fahrenheit, you're not supposed to be all over the place. It has the look of an attempt to preserve, multiply, and get maximum impact from a diff which the author himself repented of and removed in a few minutes, as Justanother points out above. Is this how you usually post complaints? Your actions seem to me frankly more disruptive than those of Shutterbug in this particular instance (the only one I've reviewed). I also note that you replied combatively to User:Darkwind, when s/he explained that the Wikiquette board was the wrong place, that because the arbitration case was closing, "this is a Wikiquette matter" . Within minutes it apparently morphed into a talk:Jimmy Wales matter, then a usertalk:Jimbo Wales matter... Famous twins? Bishonen | talk 18:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC).

Issues with an editor changing or deleting another editor's talk page comments

Over at Talk:Star Wars kid there's been a bit of a debate raging over the inclusion (or lack thereof) of the kid's name. As part of that discussion BlueLotas (talk) made a comment comparing the lack of name coverage to hypothetically censoring any mention of controversial evnts from articles on Hitler, the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky scandal, and Richard Nixon. I should point out that all of the events mentioned in said comment are already included in Misplaced Pages, which is why I couldn't understand when FCYTravis (talk) removed his comments, later justified the removal by saying it was "libelous", and in a subsequent edit said that WP:BLP gave him the right to do so. Frankly, that's crap, but it's become evident that FCYTravis is not going to listen to me, and that administrator intervention is the only way to get this sorted out. And that's why I'm posting here. The end. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ) 01:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Already being discussed at WP:BLPN. Not sure how this requires an administrator. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 01:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I was not aware of the discussion. This looks promising. As for why I felt admin intervention was needed... well, it's hard for us normal users to call an admin on things like this without worrying that, if we are too persistent, we'll wind up getting banned by said admin. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ) 01:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I would hope that civil discourse would never lead to any sort of blocking (and if it did, there would be numerous avenues for recourse, as that would very much be against Misplaced Pages's policies). —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 01:53, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Normally I'd agree, but I've gotten the strong and distinct impression that whenever WP:BLP is involved rational discourse ceases to work. It seems to be increasingly used as a trump card to all other policy, guidelines and ettiquette(sp?), at least in recent months. While I have little doubt that were I banned in a hypothetical situation like that it'd get sorted out, I also have little doubt that it would take a long period of time to do so because if for nothing else there would be endless quibbling over whether or not WP:BLP allowed for the ban, if it should, blah blah blah. In the meantime I'm screwed. I'd rather not go through that situation all the same. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ) 08:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Demonesque

Demonesque has engaged in a long-term pattern of abuse at Caturday. The user has continually changed the target of the redirect, despite an overwhelming consensus from the discussion on the talk page. Demonesque states on his talk page that I won't back down until I'm blocked. What is the next step here? The user is totally uninterested in dispute resolution and I honestly have no idea where to take this. —BurnDownBabylon 01:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Worst edit war ever. The statement of "overwhelming consensus" is 2v1, and not particularly compelling. Tell you what; you file a request for comment, and I'll protect to page for two weeks until you can get some resolution over this essential and critical issue to Misplaced Pages. --Haemo 01:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Technical glitch?

There seems to be some oddness, for lack of a better description with this RFA:Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_adminship/Victoria_uni. I'm getting a second one at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_adminship/victoria_uni and both show dates as being created in August. Purely a technical question. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 03:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Subpage titles can start with lowercase. Both should probably be deleted though (neither was listed it seems) Mr.Z-man 03:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

(My oops :O)) When I was looking at the history, I missed the diff where one was added as a procedural action and the other wasn't added to WP:RFA at the time. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 03:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I.P. Address 71.42.6.153 Posting Misinformation about our company

I.P. Address 71.42.6.153 posted false information about our company. We are not Misplaced Pages veterans and do not know how to address this situation. We are a new small business and in need of advice. Please advise, and block their IP address. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Realverse (talk • contribs) 03:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like we need someone versed in COI to look over the article and see if it needs a speedy for nonnotability or advertisement. Misplaced Pages is not an ad service. Regards, Jéské 03:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Problem solved: . Into The Fray /C 03:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Odd - User:MutterErde

The above user MutterErde (talk · contribs) shows as being indefinitely banned and blocked by Jimbo since September 2005. However, the user's contribs show edits being made in July/August 2007. Videmus Omnia 03:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

All to his own talk page, which any blocked user is still allowed to edit (as long as it isn't protected). —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 04:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, never mind. My brain took a vacation. Videmus Omnia 04:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Vandalised(?) AfD

Not sure if this is really the right place - apologies if it isn't - but Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Russ Martin has been overrun by hundreds (not quite literally, but nearing it...) of keep votes from SPA's/potential sock puppets. The original reason for deletion has been removed, too. Not sure what the best course of action is, really... Perhaps closing the current one, creating a new one and then semi-protecting the new debate (preventing any new accounts/IPs from doing this)? Thanks. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 04:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow. I tried to go through this and find a good edit. I can find the last one where the format is bad, but I didn't want to revert any genuine votes. One wonders if, given that the subject is a radio personality, perhaps there was some sort of broadcast to listeners. Into The Fray /C 04:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

This is the last revision before it was meatpuppeted — didn't spot a single non-SPA edit after that. I'm not sure what standard procedure is, though... —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 04:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Reverted to this version: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Russ_Martin&oldid=159445974. And semiprotected. If there was anything good in there, feel free to re-add it, but I couldnt see it. Viridae 04:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Jstringfellow

I originally posted this on AIV, but I think it actually should go here. If I'm wrong, please feel to correct me. I think an indef block of this user name is in order. But, you know, if I'm wrong. . . .correct me.  :)

• Jstringfellow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Well, this is a user masquerading as a self-published author with a disturbing blog, apparently. This is a little more subtle than most I've come across, but see here: and and and and, for the Coup de grâce, here: . And if you'd like to see a little old-fashioned vandalism, there's always: . Into The Fray /C 05:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment Just to add my very small $.02: While I realize that it is impossible to truly verify usernames when they claim to be a specific person, strangely (as I rarely watch Oprah), I actually saw the Oprah show that this woman was on (the dog is so cute!) and I went to the person's blog, and from that entry, it really does not remotely "sound" like the person using that username here on Misplaced Pages is Jude Stringfellow. The blog is without question, written by the author of the book, and she does not use all caps, or type in the same manner as this username has done. Nor does she really have any problem with the deletion of this article, as stated on that blog: "We have enjoyed her stay on Misplaced Pages, but to be honest it doesn't make or break her abilities to be presented in public, or to be beneficial to anyone." Further, she flat out states that this username is not her at the top of the blog entry. Again, fully realizing there's no way to verify it, the comparison of the writing styles of this username with the real person's blog, are sufficiently different that I personally do not believe that the username actually is the person, Jude Stringfellow. This username uses phrases like "I rule" and, well, if you saw the Oprah show, you'd have a pretty hard time believing that Stringfellow would ever use such a phrase. Under example 2 of the username policy, it states (emphasis mine): "Usernames that match the name of a well-known living or recently deceased person, unless you verifiably are that person, in which case, please note this on your user page." I do not believe there is sufficient evidence in this case, to verify this username is the real Jude, but there is strong evidence to suggest this is not her. (Incidentally, related or not, an anonymous user 70.165.17.188 has entered into it, blanking Talk:Jude Stringfellow, just as the username did). 14:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment - For clarity, my point in listing this here was in no way to assert my belief, one way or the other, that Jstringfellow is or is not really Jude Stringfellow, but that regardless of the veracity of either entity's claims, both have now mutually said that they are not the same person. This leads to the fact that, based on the history of Jstringfellow's edits, that the username was dishonestly masquerading as the person and therefore, in my mind, deserving of an indefinite block. That was my only point in listing this here. Into The Fray /C 14:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Wintersun

There seems to be some edit warring going on here. While User:MrBosnia is new with just a handful of edits, curiously, if you look at the history of the article, he's very careful to go beyond the 24 hours to avoid the WP:3RR, and as much as threatens another user with such in his latest revert.. — Timotab 06:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Styxmahler and User:Sabian220

Same person I think, but Styxmahler has been removing any and all comments I have made on Talk:Nolan Stolz and the AfD discussion for Nolan Stolz. He has sent me a total of 3 MySpace messages, telling me to stop discussing the article and stick to messaging him through MySpace. I warned him if he removed my comments I would leave him a warning and then report him which I did, but was told by DarkFalls to post the incident here. He has removed various comments and even blanked User_talk:Sabian220. As for Sabian, in the words of Mary had a little lamb; Everywhere that Styxmahler went, Sabian220 was sure to go. Styxmahler created Nolan Stolz, which is basically a page about himself. Styxmahler's real name is Nolan Stolz, as evidenced by this picture;

Click here

He seems to be nothing more than a mere self-promoting vandal. 06:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Blocked User:Styxmahler for 1 week for vandalism after final warning, not sure about User:Sabian220.Rlevse 11:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Judge Judy article

The Judge Judy article and Judith Sheindlin article have the attention of User:ByeNow, who reverts every cleanup template I add to the page. I suspect he is a sockpuppet of User:EverybodyHatesChris - other socks editing the page include User:Tratare. I suspect that User:BirthdayBank and User:Lormos are also sockpuppets (because over several days they reverted many of my edits, not through reverts but simply readding material) - see also User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite#Sockpuppet. I think this person is reverting my edits personally because I had attempted to clean up the article extensively. Also - I had asked on the Help Desk where to post this, and they said here, so if I'm not in the right place, I'm sorry. Kat, Queen of Typos 07:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Now they are removing my talk page comments on why the article needs to be edited. Kat, Queen of Typos 11:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see content removal, pls provide diffs. It's also confusing when your sig says one name but it's really something else.Rlevse 12:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The edit warring is clear in the history; I've weighed in over on the talk page, and will keep an eye on the article. ➪HiDrNick! 14:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to convert some of the references to the formatting suggested by Dr. Nick, but my changes are being reverted, and my talk posts deleted. I'll be right back with some diffs. --Bfigura 18:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Diff showing removal of my comments (which, ironically, were about my previous comments being removed). . --Bfigura 18:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ban evasion

Banned Frightner (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is evading his ban through this IP, 124.169.85.161 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). It has admitted to being him ( ) and as well as edit warring, he is using ethnic slurs (calling Bulgarians "Mongolo-Bulgars" ).--NetProfit 10:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sent to the devil's grandmother for a week. If he comes back again, please let us know. Cheers, Moreschi 10:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Long-term vandalism on List of current world boxing champions and related

I've identified the following IP ranges and being behind the vandalism which plagues this article and several of its kin... this vandalism's been going on for over a year now. From what I see, none of these IPs have any constructive contributions.

• 88.207.202.0/24
• 124.107.71.2
• 222.127.55.167
• 222.127.228.6/31
• 222.127.228.8

I selected the ranges carefully only to hit the few vandals that have been attacking this set of articles... review and a possible block is welcome. east.718 at 11:48, September 22, 2007

User:David Shear

Hi. Can someone help look into this matter? I have Misplaced Pages:Missing Wikipedians on my watchlist. Now, I noticed an anon posted today on the page that "User:David Shear said he died on April 21, 2007". There was indeed a notice on his userpage that another user posted, and the user has ceased editting in late 2006. I'm just posting it here because I don't know what should be done about this. Now, do these notices have to come with a source? Can someone either verify or deny this? If this is true, should it be added to possibly deseaced wikipedians? I'm not going to do anything about this matter because I'm waiting for more experienced editors to deal with this. Thanks. ~AH1 13:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

We usually ask for a source, but I am not sure what is needed to confirm a death for our purposes. User:Zscout370 17:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Assassinations and murders attributed to the LTTE

Considering this is the right place since User:Lahiru_k's posting hereDaviddson 13:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Lahiru_k deleted the above message. But he posted similar sock warning note to Closing Administration's attention here. Am I right or wrong? Daviddson 14:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest going here for the sockpuppet check; but it was a good idea to post the problem with a AFD close. We have been having major issues with Sri Lanka/LTTE related articles for months now. User:Zscout370 17:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Abuse? by Thbraith

I think this qualifies a a Three Revert Rule violation. User Thbraith first added a rather...indelicate...comment into a page on red hair. http://en.wikipedia.org/Red_hair This was removed by a 'bot Then he added himself to two other pages. First as our first president, (displacing George Washington,) second adding his name as a notable person to a link to a city. http://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/Villanova%2C_Pennsylvania Oh. By the way. I looked up the club he says he plays for. He is not on the roster.

Finally, he's created a page for himself. http://en.wikipedia.org/Tommy_Braithwaite

On this last, I'm stymied. What is the template to plaster on obvious vanity pages? Esp. ones with known factual errors? -Sean —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sean.Roach (talk • contribs) 16:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• Vanity page deleted, user warned. This is a clear-cut case of vandalism. This user has made only one quasi-legitimate edit; the rest are vandalism. You can report this kind of thing to WP:AIV in the future. android79 17:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

JzG gone again

See  :( 86.137.127.139 16:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Meh. Judging from changes to his essay, something's happened that pushed him over again, and he's asked for desysopping at this point. (Can't figure out if he's received that yet or not.) Sorry to see him go again, but perhaps some time will help him with his concerns, and he'll be back in the future. Tony Fox (arf!) 19:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I think he's PO'd about the same things that many of the rest of us are PO'd about. Especially the community's insistence on giving disruptive users a second third fourth fifth chance because they might, eventually, someday become constructive users, while holding people who are constructive users to the most exacting standards. Raymond Arritt 19:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

So I'm not the only one tired of the Wikiredemption and Reclamation Project? &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 19:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, let's waste a bunch of time on jackass editors, and push away the good ones. Jim, I'm very tired of it. OrangeMarlin 20:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I am all for tightening the screws here. Should we allow trolls to make us lose the most committed editors we have? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Please don't take me as insensitive to the difficulties our sysops face, but why do we need to have an announcement here every time someone deletes his or her userpage? If they have something they would like to say to the community, they can say it themselves. Broadcasting their departure here seems unlikely to be helpful. Can anyone inform me as to the benefits it could have? Picaroon (t) 19:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Because JzG did not suck. A bunch of pathetic POV-losers pushed him out the door. So what do you have? A crappy encyclopedia. I'm going to fight back. This pisses me off.OrangeMarlin 20:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You can start by helping change the rules at WP:CSN so that the decision to ban a user is made by a consensus of uninvolved parties. WP:CSN gets tons of flak, but it's a very useful way to show long-term disruptive users the door. Unfortunately, by allowing the disruptors to participate in establishing a consensus, it often fails. We really need to be more effective at dealing with bad faith users. - Jehochman 21:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Is this the way that we recompense committed editors? What a pity. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah no! JzG is such a great guy...a rock of impartiality. I like knowing that an email to JzG will not yield a reply, but rather a fair result. --Zeraeph 21:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

In that essay linked to above, he writes, "There are people out there who are batshit insane and will genuinely try to get you fired from your job, call you at home, solicit burglars to raid your home, and invite predators to look at your kids. They might even think it's not serious, that it's only a bit of fun. Only one of the above has not happened to me, and that one happened to someone else." Is all of that true? If so, that is extremely unsettling. How much dangerous is it editing this site? Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 21:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

OM: Me too. I tire of the overuse of the AGF nonsense that forces us to extend some semblence of good faith to a user who has shown himself/herself repeatedly to be nothing more than a tendentious, troublesome, user, or a POV-pusher or a troll. Bah.

Jossi: Apparently it is.

Jehochman: whatever it takes, but see my comment to OM. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 21:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Another option would be to start fighting back against POV-pushers by adopting the remedies at User:Moreschi/The Plague. That's about nationalism, but most of it applies to all POV-pushing types. Shameless spam, yes. I hope JzG has not given up on WP entirely. There's always the good old right-to-return-via-the-back-door. Moreschi 21:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Racism At Italian conquest of British Somaliland?

I don't know much about this topic but what is going on here baffles me. Various IPs (or perhaps a single person) is making unsourced edits here, here, here, and here. Always after this is a message on the article's talk page, claiming the article is being racist. Is there POV pushing here? -WarthogDemon 17:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Those edits are vandalism, IMHO. MoritzB 17:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Note, I just went to the WHOIS of the IPs; seems like it could possibly be the same person however I'm not certain if this is direct vandalism as it is disruptive pov pushing. Perhaps this page should be semi-protected? -WarthogDemon 18:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Nothing much to do here. I will welcome these newbies with the hope they make constructive edits in the future. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User:MatthewHoffman

MatthewHoffman (talk · contribs)

I've given him a 72 hour block to calm down. A bit of an odd one - he's only been a contributor a week, has done nothing but edit Irreducible complexity and its talk page, with huge screeds attacking every editor of that page, claiming they lack neutrality, etc. It was hostile enough, in my opinion, to justify a bit of a time out and warning, but, well, I suppose there's some hope he'll turn out to be a reasonable editor. Anyway, judge for yourself, and overrule me if you think it justified. Adam Cuerden 17:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, I think an indef would be preferable here. This is quite obviously a sockpuppet, judging by his abnormally well-informed edit summaries and knowledge of 3rr technicalites. Single-purpose accounts that are solely here to push POV (particularly on just the one article) should IMO be shown the egress ASAP. Moreschi 19:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Indef blocked. Adam Cuerden 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. There's no need to give multiple chances when the editor is an (abuse|spam|coi)-only account. That's been written into WP:BLOCK: "Accounts used primarily for disruption are blocked indefinitely." - Jehochman 21:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

User 156.34.212.136 is following me, deleting all my discussion threads

Whenever I propose an edit on the discussion page of an article he deletes them for no real good reason at all. Can you please do something about this? This is gettign EXTREMELY aggraviting and annoying.

the user is infact removing my comments from any talk page, calling me a sock puppet. Let's assume I was a sock, my discussions were legit and not vandalism. Shutup999 21:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

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