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Warning

Can you please be more specific? What edit(s) are you referring to? -- Levine2112 18:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Another of his lousy threats, huh! who does he think he is? As I said before, this is NOT simply a personal conduct matter it involves the whole of the editors who edit the homeopathy article. As the only one of them now left with much insider knowledge of homeopathy (over a 29 year period) I find it especially sickening to have to deal with such folks, who actually know very little about the subject they pontificate upon so eagerly. So moving all that to his talk page shifts it under the carpet as it were. thanks Peter morrell 19:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Still, better avenues to take are WP:RFC/U or even a simple WP:AN/I report. Posting personal grievances against other editors on article talk space will just reflect poorly on you. -- Levine2112 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

That was possibly not the best warning template to use, for which I apologise - there's a funny jump between ones talking about "tests being reverted" and that one that... probably could use another level. But I do think that you should be a bit more careful not to remove the context of a criticism where it's relevant, and try to calm down a little with regards to Quackwatch. Adam Cuerden 22:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• What? Levine? In trouble? No. Not him. Some other user but not him. I know Levine and I don't think he did anything wrong--Angel David 00:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Question

Hello Levine2112:

I hope I'm not a nuisance with this question. My only excuse is I'm trying to figure out what is happening with the Homeopathy business.

I'm guessing that Adam's warning to you above might have something to do with the Homeopathy article, but I can't figure out what he was objecting to.

I'm wondering if you know, and if so, whether you would mind sharing the information?

Thanks, Wanderer57 02:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

This had nothing to do with Homeopathy specifically, but rather the criticism section of The National Council Against Health Fraud. It appears to have been a misunderstanding on Adam's part, for which he graciously recognized and removed said warning from my page. Anyhow, we could use some fresh eyes at The National Council Against Health Fraud. Currently we are exploring the ACA criticism of the NCAHF and trying to mold it actually into criticism of the NCAHF rather than criticism of chiropractic. -- Levine2112 16:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Rejoyce

Angel David hopes that you are joyful! Joy promotes WikiLove and hopefully this little bit has helped make your day better. Spread the Wikilove by melting the clouds of sin and sadness that weigh down someone else. Try to brighten the day of as many people as you can! Keep up the great editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Joy message}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Message of Joy

Hi Levine2112:

Thank you very much for the Message of Joy.

Regarding the homeopathy discussions, there is no joy there. What I find surprising about it is the amount of discussion that goes on behind the scenes, on user talk pages. The Homeopathy talk page seems to be the tip of an iceberg.

My best wishes, Wanderer57 18:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

You got it. Pass on the joy, perhaps to someone who is not making the discussions joyous. Maybe they might get the message. ;-) -- Levine2112 18:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

AGF

I think one important thing about AGF is that it helps to de-escalate tense situations. We don't want to inflame situations, and we don't want to escalate problems. Best to find appropriate venues for discussion, and then deal with the facts about what has happened. I hope you'll take this as my trying to be helpful. --Ronz 04:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I do find it helpful. But not surprising. I mean, you are right on with what you are saying here, one hundred percent. But if you wanted to really surprise me, you would recognize "that the shoe is on the other foot" and place the same exact sound and perfect advice you gave me here on another's page. To me, this would be evidence of you finally assuming good faith in me... something which I have never ever seen. I hardly think you have ever given me even the benefit of the doubt, let alone AGF. Until then, it's really hard for me to take any advice concerning civility from you. -- Levine2112 08:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Advice

Hi there, your name was mentioned in passing during discussions about ban enforcement, I would advise you to please read the Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy and Misplaced Pages:Banning policy, in particular note that relaying messages from banned users would get you blocked, so please don't allow anybody to manipulate you in this way. This isn't an official warning and you are not currently under investigation. This is just a friendly note ensuring that you have been made aware of the relevant policies. Tim Vickers 20:04, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for making me aware. What I am not aware of is me relaying messages from any banned users. Where did this accusation come from? Can you point me to this discussion which you mention above? I would like to see what others are saying about me. Thanks. -- Levine2112 01:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

To help you understand what he means (assuming I understand him correctly!), notice that Tim is just giving some "preemptive" advice as he says "would get you blocked" (my emphasis), as in "if you were to do what Ilena is encouraging Niels Mayer to get you to do, which is to help them in some manner." Her request is found in the history of the talk page. I don't think anyone has said you "are" doing it (it could - likely inaccurately - be construed by some to be the case), but since she is actively working on getting you to help her and Niels Mayer, I would encourage you to distance yourself from them so it won't happen ("it" meaning either help them or get blocked). Just "avoid the appearance of evil." Getting anywhere near them is like playing with fire. That's all. -- Fyslee / talk 02:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't even say I need to distance myself. I am not even in their proximity as far as I know. I mean I know Ilena from Misplaced Pages only (and since she has been banned here for almost a year now... well... ) and I have no idea who Niels Mayer is or aware of his presence here. That Ilena is in correspondence with Niels Mayer outside of Misplaced Pages and suggested that he goes to me for help is beyond my control. That Niels Mayer posted the email on the talk page of his sock puppet IP is also beyond my control. I understand what you mean about avoiding the appearance of evil, but what could I possibly have done in this case to avoid that? -- Levine2112 02:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I am unfortunately unable to discuss any details of the context in which your name was mentioned, Levine2112, since this was a conversation on an unrelated confidential matter. However, I would stress that I am not accusing you of any policy violations. You have been notified of the relevant policies and you have given your assurance that you understand these policies and are not in breach of their conditions. I am entirely satisfied with this response. Tim Vickers 02:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I just did some research into the history of JzG's page and I am a little distraught by what I found. It seems I am being accused quite maliciously by Fyslee for being a proxy for these users. I really resent this and emphatically deny such an accusation. I see Fyslee is trying to attribute my Welcome message to a IP address with some covert activity. Please check my contributions and note that I greet many, many, many IP addresses. That this one turned up implicated as a sock-puppet is pure coincidence. That Fyslee was trying to implicate me on any of this smacks of personal attacks. I am sorry, but I am really steamed about what I just read. And further by Fyslee's edit summary when he was made to delete this accusation: "OK - it's in the history" To me this means that he is satisfied with his accusations, reluctant to delete them, but is at least happy that the accusation will somehow live in the the edit history. Maybe I am blowing this out of proportion, but I am really annoyed. I am going to take the rest of the day off and think about this. -- Levine2112 02:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I can see why you might find that upsetting, however can I repeat that I am not accusing you of any policy violations. You have given your word that this will not happen and I have accepted this assurance. Tim Vickers 03:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not you who are making the accusation - again I appreciate your advice here. It is Fyslee's accusation which I find upsetting. What's more, in this accusation, he states that Niels' IP sockpuppet has an IP near some of mine. How does Fyslee know even one IP I use, let alone "some"? I thought this is information which can only be acquired by an admin through a CheckUser. Did some admin give him my IP? I feel like my personal information has being compromised here. I have to agree with JzG's comment to Fyslee: He should know better. I really thought that this was the kind of incivility which Fyslee's RfA was supposed to curb. -- Levine2112 03:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I did not actually accuse you. I just pointed out some things that make it imperative for you to distance yourself from these people, even if you haven't been in contact with Niels Mayer. Read my message above very carefully. I specifically write "(it could - likely inaccurately - be construed by some to be the case)" to make you aware that I think it would be inaccurate, but that some other people might put two and two together and get five. No one has actually accused you of being a proxy (a question is not an accusation), but you are being sought to work as a proxy. You can't prevent that, but you can take our advice as cautions. You have fans who are doing you a disservice. I, like Tim, am perfectly satisfied with your answers above. The knowledge of your IPs is an old story from before you started using Levine2112, and a few times thereafter. We have discussed this and where you live in the (distant) past. You have just forgotten. You, just like many of the rest of us, have forgotten to log in a few times. It's as simple as that. No checkuser. Since I no longer consider you to be the person who viciously attacked me off wiki before I started here, it is irrelevant now. -- Fyslee / talk 07:28, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey all, just to let you know, I haven't been contacted by Niels Mayer (and also was unaware of this user) or anybody else by email or here on the wiki. I do occasionally hear from Levine and Fyslee when they have something they want me to look at. My email is enabled, so anyone is welcome to do that I assume. I pretty much try to edit according to NPOV, V and RS and NOR anyway, so hopefully I won't fall victim to someone who intends to POV push anyway. I will let JzG know if I do get contacted. -- Dēmatt (chat) 06:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Checkuser information is guarded very closely - see the policy, this is not a general admin function and is given to only users who can be trusted completely. While it is not absolutely impossible that IP information can be disclosed, it is extremely unlikely to be the case. Tim Vickers 03:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I stumbled over this thread while researching a couple of things for Levine2112 & just want to explain some technical aspects leading up to some advice.

IP addresses can say different things, and sometimes say nothing at all. An IP-address can virtually always be traced to its owner, usually a specific Internet provider. Internet providers have various systems to assign IP addresses to individual customers. Dial-in numbers generally assign IP addresses dynamically; this means that only the Internet provider can say who (i.e. which phone number) has been assigned a specific IP address at a given time. Some dial-in numbers repeatedly assign the same IP address to the same phone number if possible. Obviously, dial-in numbers tend to be used locally for cost reasons, in which case the user's location can be approximated. But even with local calls and people using the exact same dial-up number, the distance between the users can easily be 10-20 miles or more. Some cable or ADSL connections are assigned dynamically but retain the same IP address between sessions if possible. Other cable/ADSL connections have a static IP number. Other connection types exist, generally with static IP numbers.

The IP numbers referred to in the discussion above have been assigned dynamically and the users are located in the same area (many hundreds of square miles) Therefore, in this specific case, and I'm saying this in addition to JzG's correct warning elsewhere, everyone is advised to refrain from what is, at best, mere speculation.

Also, 75.83.171.237, an IP address used to make Morgellons edits, is not currently an open proxy but a dial-up number (with a known location). Perhaps someone can ask JzG to check the notice on that page. If it has been used by both editors, it must have been an open proxy at the time, or meat puppetry/users on the same connection (most probably in the same room or even on the same computer). (It is possible that Niels has used various dial-up numbers in order to obtain a new IP address between sessions in order to evade a block.)

Note that there is a difference between using an open proxy (an IP address anyone can use and hide behind) and being a proxy (i.e. a person called meat puppet) for another user (e.g. a banned or active editor). Avb 19:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Noted. Now that I think back, I do remember Fyslee trying to pinpoint where I lived in open discussions on Misplaced Pages (probably before he came to understand the importance of not revealing another's personal information). I am rather sure that whatever IP address Fyslee thinks he has for me is either wrongly attributed and severely out of date. I really think that he dragged me into this hoping that the mere association with this impropriety would somehow reflect badly on me as an editor in good standing. I am sorry if I am lacking in good faith, but the accusations Fyslee made here still have me bitter. -- Levine2112 22:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

... dragged me into this hoping that the mere association with this impropriety would somehow reflect badly on me as an editor in good standing ... --> Please reconsider in the light of correspondence bias. Thanks. Avb 02:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Did you see his accusation? That's correspondence bias for you. -- Levine2112 03:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Now that is an accusation! Remember what I wrote above about what I had written: "A question is not an accusation." If you will read (as I previously requested you to do) very carefully what I wrote, and what I have written afterwards to make clear my intent and what I meant, and to prevent precisely this misunderstanding which you now express, you will see that Avb's statement above is right on target. It appears that you are refusing to AGF and are placing the worst possible interpretation on what I wrote. Please reconsider and just take my advice and forewarning (because you weren't aware at the time of the plans being laid to recruit you as a proxy) as it was meant to be, just as you have taken the advice from Tim Vickers and Avb. You happen to have friends and allies who are doing you a disservice. You have no control over the fact that they have plans for using you, but by warning and advising you of the danger, we are all acting in your best interest. You can believe that and let this matter be settled right here. Deal? -- Fyslee / talk 05:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

You have accused me with your speculation. Even JzG told you it was inappropriate. And that you were bothered that he deleted it but you were happy enough that it was at least it would live on in the history... I will AGF when you own up to your actions. I haven't even heard so much as even an apology for you trying to wrangle me into this. All I get is a lecture and some Wikilawyering from you, trying to convince me that since your accusation was in the form of a question, then it is alright. This isn't Jeopardy! and I ain't buying it.

I am fine with the advice from Tim Vickers and AvB - it's solid - but they wouldn't have had to offer it if you hadn't tried to drag me into this mess (of which otherwise I had not been a party too). Above you state that you no longer consider me to be the person who viciously attacked me off wiki before I started here... well, you have a funny way of showing it. I don't know what gripe you have with this person, but it isn't me. So start treating me better. -- Levine2112 06:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I am the one who deleted it, not JzG. You were the one who was seeking information on the sock puppetry matter and you seemed to be ignorant of the posting by Niels Mayer of an email from Ilena and therefore I informed you of what was going on and provided a warning and some advice. There were several things that could lead some people to misunderstand the matter and I illustrated how it could happen, but apparently too graphically, even while carefully wording it so it would not be misunderstood as an accusation, but as a rhetorical question. It looks like I came too close to some invisible line and it has been misunderstood by you. I apologize for that. I have expressly stated (and repeated) that such a misunderstanding by others would be "inaccurate". As far as the old matter of a pre-wiki attack by a chiropractor named Levine, I have told you that I don't believe you are that person and I don't have a gripe with you over that matter. It's history. -- Fyslee / talk 07:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you deleted it after JzG made it clear that it was improper. And your edit summary at the time you deleted it seems even more confrontational. I did inquire to JzG how he ascertained that Ilena was a sock-puppet (and as it turned out, it was a good thing that I did, because apparently she wasn't. A point which JzG went on to clarify on the ArbCom.) However, your response to the question I asked of JzG was not how you say it is above. It was much more than a warning or advice. It was also speculation that I too was a proxy. It is with this that I take issue. It is clear that you did not mean it as a rhetorical question, but rather as accusatory speculation. This is precisely how JzG interpreted too and that is why he warned you it was highly inappropriate. I appreciate your apology above; however, I would appreciate it a whole lot more if you showed some remorse for what you actually did and not for some trumped up concocted rationalization. Also, I am glad you are finally willing to stop your past two-year incivility toward me now that you know I am not some chiropractor with the same last name (a very, very common name, mind you) with whom you had some off-Wiki conflict. As you well know, I am not a chiropractor at all (or even a Chiropractic Assistant, as you have also speculated over the years) and my last name might not even be what you think it is. Anyhow, I am hopeful that now that you have personally absolved me of guilt in Ilena/Niels sockpuppet/proxy issue and of your off-Wiki gripes with someone with a last name which you associate with me, that finally after two years you can start treating me respectfully. I am willing to AGF and consider that your two years of antagonizing me was based solely on your own misunderstandings. I will also admit that because of your antagonizing I have been uncivil with you. Can we move on now? -- Levine2112 18:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, let's move on. I will try to be more careful in the future. -- Fyslee / talk 23:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Groovy. -- Levine2112 23:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Levine. Just noticed what you have been going through in my periodic peek into Wikipedialand. I can sympathize with you. I, too, have had the unpleasant experience of being on the business end of Fyslee's agressive behaviour. His past uncivil behaviour has not gone unnoticed Fyslee's RfA. He has apparently rubbed others the wrong way in the past.

IMO, his warnings that 'future danger' will be your fate if you don't follow his so-called, 'friendly advice', seem at best, not only unsavory, but threatening and very un-Wikipedian. Unless, of course, you enjoy a parent-child lecture. Steth 22:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Steth. I wish your peeks into Wikipedialand were more than just periodic. I, for one, miss your contributions. -- Levine2112 23:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Alternative disability

Hi, I left you a message on Talk:Alternative therapy (disability). Piechjo 16:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocked/banned editors

Hi Levine2112. Per Wiki stats, I see you have significant contributions to the Stephen Barrett article. Arbitration Committee banned Ilena has posted to the Stephen Barrett article/talk page. Arbitration Committee banned Ilena and SSP indefinitely blocked Scrotel both have used the 75.83.171.237 IP address. See User Talk. NielsMayer and Nielsp have been blocked indefinitely as sockpuppets of Scrotel. See SSP report. If you are aware of any attempts to circumvent these bans/blocks, please consider making a report at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets. -- Jreferee t/c 18:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Once again, hopefully superfluously, noting that this does not implicate Levine2112. Avb 19:23, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I understand exactly why Jreferee posted here. Thanks. -- Levine2112 22:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

behavior issues (second warning)

Here is your previous warning.

Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

You edit summary was an ad hominem personal attack against me. You claimed in your edit summary: removing harrassment by known harrasser You are also failing to WP:AGF. Please stop it with your personal attacks. Agreed?  Mr.Guru  talk  17:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Would you two both stop attacking each other? If I weren't involved in some of the edits leading to these disputes, I'd block both of you for WP:NPA. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 17:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Right now I think the current version is fine. It isn't worth an edit war. -- Fyslee / talk 17:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

improper use of minor check while you were using TW (third warning)

first warning

second warning

Third offense. This was not a minor edit.

Twinkle Policy: Be advised that you take full responsibility for any action performed using Twinkle. You must understand Misplaced Pages policies and use this tool within these policies, or risk being blocked. Thank you for understanding. Have a great day!  Mr.Guru  talk  18:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)