User talk:Iamandrewrice: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 19:12, 27 November 2007 editJeffpw (talk \| contribs)9,574 edits →Advice: reply echoing Anthony← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:26, 27 November 2007 edit undoJeffpw (talk \| contribs)9,574 edits →Advice: replyNext edit →
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	:Let me know if you have read the ] policy, and please give me a summary of that when you are ready. With that behind us, we can start working on editing proper. ] (]) 19:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)		:Let me know if you have read the ] policy, and please give me a summary of that when you are ready. With that behind us, we can start working on editing proper. ] (]) 19:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
			==Changing your username==
			]. It will actually take a bureaucrat here to effect the change, and the page suggests you might simply want to register a new name. I would actually recommend the latter, as you can do that yourself without help. All our talk about adoption can be transferred to your new page if you choose that option. I have changed the link toyour sandbox. You combined the procedure for renaming an internal link with that of an external link. ] (]) 19:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:26, 27 November 2007

Adoption

With a mixture of optimism and misgivings, I offer my services to you as an adopter. If you are serious about becoming a good editor ehere I will gladly help you. Give it some thought before you answer, because my intention is to teach you both how to edit well and to treat this place and your colleagues here with respect and care. Editing Misplaced Pages can be fun, and one can make good friends here; but those friendships are based on mutual respect for the work each editor does. If you are interested, you may reply on my talk page. Jeffpw (talk) 16:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, we can begin with some simple stuff. I first want to give you some tips about working here. On Misplaced Pages we are working together for a common goal:the building of a great encyclopedia. Therefore, weassume good faith in other users. We also don't attack other editors when we disagree with them. We calmly discuss and try to achieve consensus in order to reach our goals. Please read both of the linked pages carefully, as they form core policies here.

On your talk page someone left you a nice welcome letter with lots of links about how Misplaced Pages works. Try to read as many of the links as possible, and if you have questions, bring them to me. The same goes for the policies I have linked to here.

Many people create articles here that end up deleted. That's par for the course. With some work, many articles can be saved. But if they can not, a sincere effort is made to both salvage what can be salvaged from the deleted material, as well as encouraging the good faith editor to create something else that won't get deleted. In the case of your Good Hair Day article, I think the best course is to allow it to be merged with as little dramam as possible. There are tons of other articles to be worked on or created.

After you read the policies and protocols, and all your questions about them are answered, we can search the 'pedia for some articles you might enjoy editing. When we get to that stage, I will create a sandbox for you to experiment in. That is your own little corner of wiki to try your edits out before you enter them into the encyclopedia proper.

Lastly, when communicating with others, please be aware that they are very busy with their own work here, and cannot stop everything to work on your project. There are exceptions, of course, but that is susally the case. Patience is a good thing to develop here. Also, please refrain from typing in all caps, as many consider that shouting and rude. You can drop the kisses and hugs (?--the 0o thingies). Most people see that sort of markup as unnecessary. Just a little tip.

I have to go out now for a few hours. Please get started when you can, and I look forward to working with you. Jeffpw (talk) 16:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

part 2

I see you have been productive while I was away. Your userpage looks lots better, I know a little bit about you from your userboxes, and hopefully you've read the policies about personal attacks and assuming good faith (from my post above). Do you have any questions about them?

I took a look at the school article you made, and I am impressed. It's a good looking starter article, well referenced and attractive to the eye. See what you can do when the subject is actually notable? That's an article you created, and that you mostly self-improved. You should be proud of it.

You mentioned there were other articles here about hair straighteners. Could you point them out to me? Maybe we can take a look at them together and see if we can apply some of the techniques there to you GHD article. To be truthful, I think that article could be better served merged into the parent compaby article (and think that will occur) but we can still try if you want. It might be good practice.

AS to your questions about why people don't sign with kisses and other emoticos here, all I can say is that Misplaced Pages is somewhat mroe formal. Most people prefer to keep things on a professional level, at least until they get to know one another better. We're not all sticks in the mud, but the work is the priority here.

In terms of articles I like to edit, my interests are wide ranging. I edit everything from Friend of Dorothy to Europa (moon). Take a look at the article James Robert Baker to see an article I am proud of. I created it and improved it until it received Featured article status. I also participate in policy and incident discussions as a regular editor. I am not an administrator, nor would I like to be one.

As I said earlier, please read the policy guidelines. I think it a very good idea to learn the core policies, as well as how to create an article. Let me know what further assistance you need. Jeffpw (talk) 19:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

part 3

Here's another core policy I would like you to thoroughly read: our civility guidelines. Many of the messages you are sending to other users come across as uncivil, and don't encourage cooperation. I notice that Duke of Whitstable has mentioned this to you twice. Our civility policy, along with WP:AGF and NPA, are designed to make communication flow more smoothly here, and most users take them very seriously. Continued breaching of these policies can lead to blocking from the site, for periods of hours to indefinitely. It is also considered bad form to continually comment in the discussions for deletion, and to ask for help from those leaving their comments (at least on the deletion discussion page). People already know you want the article saved. The usual form is to write Keep, then clearly and calmly state your reasons. Then people will take it more seriously. By the way, the article is improving nicely. If it continues this way, I may change my comment to a keep from delete. I did notice, however, you haven't implemented any of the suggestions that another editor left for you in the discussion. There is an expectation that the most concerned editor will make improvements if they want their article kept.

I do expect to hear back from you with some reaction to the above suggestions. While you are certainly not obligated to follow them, I am sincerely trying to help you get your footing on Misplaced Pages. Lastly, let me repeat in another way what I wrote earlier: It is not necessary to message other editors every time you are thinking about them. It's often annoying to be in the middle of editing an article and see that orange bar on the top of your screen. Try to concentrate more on the quality of your own edits and let other editors do their work, too. Also, just so you know, your contributions are viewable to all other editors, so what you write on another user's talk page is seen by anybody who cares to look. I noticed, for instance, you made some disparaging comments on one user's page about another editor. Even if you are not talking directly to the person you are disparaging, it can still be seen as very uncivil. Please try to keep that in mind when editing. Cheers, Jeffpw (talk) 21:51, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Your accusations

Given your apparent pending adoption by an experienced user, I am willing to overlook your accusations against me. However, may I recommend that, along with the advice you will be given by your adopter (assuming you accept the offer) you take a close look at Misplaced Pages guidelines? May I also suggest you consider altering your username, your user page or both as there appears to be a discrepancy between the two, given that your username suggests you are Andrew Rice, whereas your user page gives a different indication. Duke of Whitstable (talk) 16:25, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Image help

It looks like you just need to force-resize them when you put them into the article: see for information. But also be sure you're not uploading copyrighted images: has the policy on images. Kuronue | Talk 18:59, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Your message

I am glad somebody managed to find some references, hopefully now there is a chance that the article will be turned into something approaching the standards required of an encyclopedia. I will not withdraw the nomination at this time, as it would be unfair to prevent users giving their views. However, for your future reference I would suggest you do not leave messages on user's talk pages that could be interpreted as uncivil - acting in such a way towards other editors may have resulted in action that could have prevented you from editing for a time. However, I am sure your adopter can take you through the processes in due course. Duke of Whitstable (talk) 21:21, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem, all sorted now Whitstable (talk) 22:11, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Archiving

I have archived the previous discussions for you, so you can better see where your new messsages are. You can also click on "last change" on that orange bar to see it directly. The old discussions are located at the top of your page labeled "Archives". I've also readded the welcome page you received when you joined Misplaced Pages. Reading this should answer most of your questions, but if not, feel free to ask them of me. Hope this was a help. Jeffpw (talk) 22:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

You manually archive by opening two screens (at least, that's how I do it). First your talk page, then the archive page. Set them both to "Edit". Then cut what you want from your talk page, and paste it to your archive. I'll show you later how to make an archive page, though it is really the same as creating an article. Just make the name and press "create". It should have your own talk page name in it though, for instance, something like User talk:Iamandrewrice/Archive 1.

That article (one of several, but that's the one I am most proud of) took several weeks and a lot of patience to create. I also asked politely for help when I needed it, and people did what was necessary. People really do want to help each other here.

Oh, by the way, in the future, if you don't mind, I will reply to you on my own talk page, and you can reply to me on yours if I leave a message here. I have your page watchlisted, so I can see if you reply. Jeffpw (talk) 22:18, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

If you ever need a hand

It's great to see that you've got an adopter — hopefully that will help you lots. Just to let you know, though, that I'm always willing to lend a hand/ear if you need some help and they're not around. --Haemo (talk) 22:18, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll second that. Also, to save yourself from this kind of thing in the future consider creating new articles as subpages of your userpage to begin with. That's called user space and you can do pretty much what you want there - within reason of course! Most importantly, you can try out different versions of your article and work on it at your own pace. If you need help evaluating references in the future just ask. You also know of the Article Rescue Squadron now so you have a few people to choose from if you need any advice. By the way, I would have changed to keep had the nomination not been withdrawn. Best of luck - I do like people who don't give up! EconomicsGuy (talk) 09:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

As promised, here is your new playground. Jeffpw (talk) 10:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the sand box... I have put a link to it on my profile if you ever want to see it. What is your name by the way? i figured it mite be easier... lol
er... like, in reply to the Article Rescue Squadron, although I know it exists... I have no idea how to get to it... could you like give me the link? so I can put it on my profile.
Also... I kind of disagree with the idea of replying on my talk page and you replying on yours, as then it means I'll have to keep checking your page loads to see if I have a new message, and won't that take longer?
Oh and what should I use when trying to make a new page... my sandbox or my user space?
Oh and yeah, altough everyone's given me loads of links about the rules and stuff... Im kind of a bit overwhelmed by not only the sheer number given to me, but by the lengths of the articles themselves once I follow them. Wb. Iamandrewrice (talk) 12:57, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Your sandbox is the best place to try things out, rather than your user space. I know there's lots to read in the beginning. usually, new users learn this on their own, piece by piece. However, since you had such a rough time, I thought it best to acquaint you to the policies right away. That way you won't get blocked again (though you would probably be warned first; still, warnings aren't very nice, either).

My name is...Jeff. Just drop off the "pw" to make it easier for yourself. If you feel like replying on my page, go ahead. I just like to keep conversations together for convenience sake. To each their own.

I have to run now, as i have many clients to care for this evening. I'll check back in a few hours to see if you need any help. Jeffpw (talk) 16:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

One last thing: You really didn't have anything to say, and Steve is very busy with many things here. You would do better to confine messaging to actual work that needs doing, or wikipedia related questions. Please think about that. Jeffpw (talk) 16:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

OK... you can call me Ben... and what kind of things would you like me to start on next? Im sorry, but know his son and just thought I'd let him know... lol sory...
And the reason I had a tough time wasnt because I didnt care for the rules...Iamandrewrice (talk) 16:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

IPA

Help:Pronunciation is a good start as far as linking English example words with the IPA symbols. I'm not sure about the English of Kent, but I'm sure that you're aware of Received Pronunciation (AKA, BBC English or the Queen's English). Once you get a good grasp of the English monophthongs, you can get a better understanding of the non-English vowels by looking at the vowel chart. If you can get ahold of it, A Course in Phonology (1999) by Iggy Roca & Wyn Johnson has some good chapters on vowels. Æµ§œš¹ 22:32, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I do believe the vowel in school is the same for that in food and both tall and mall have the same vowel in paw. In some dialects, the /l/ can alter a preceding vowel or even (as in Cockney) delete. l-vocalization might have some more information on that. If you're not sure about a particular word, has a pronunciation for most words (the default is an ad hoc guide but you can click "show IPA pronunciation" to change that). Æµ§œš¹ 19:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank You

Yes, he bothers me. And im not treating Misplaced Pages like myspace as he says. I just talk from time to time to my friends. HIYO (talk) 22:54, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I did it!

Insert non-formatted text here

I did it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joeseth1992 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

adopt

Go and see what that stupid Jeff person left me! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joeseth1992 (talk • contribs) 19:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Your recent edits

I just spent a little time looking through your contributions this evening. I see you made a few edits to the school article, and further improved the GHD article. I also noticed you have been engaging in silly back and forth with a user who is vandalizing the encyclopedia and is on the verge of being blocked from further editing, and have left a few messages on SteveBaker's page, after I told you that was not a very good idea. That kind of behavior is what gets users warned and blocked.

What I would like to see from you now is a summary of WP:AGF, WP:CIV and WP:NPA. By now you should have read them, and these policies form the core of how we interact with eachother here. Before we go any further, I want to be sure you understand these important topics. Once that is accomplished, we can find a small article for you to edit and perhaps expand. When we start you on editing, there are more policies and guidelines you should understand regarding verifiability, notability and reliable sources to support your claims. But you first need to understand how to interact with people here. I look forward to your summary of the above mentioned policies and your questions about them. Cheers, Jeffpw (talk) 19:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Making "chapter headings is easy. You don't have to fuss with font size, as you did on the school article. all you do is add two "=" on either side ot the text and it happens automatically. To see an example, click on the small "edit" link at the right side of this section. There you'll see how I made the chapter heading.

By the way, your vandalising friend has been blocked from editing for the coming 3 days. He didn't listen to good advice to stop his annoying behavior and is now paying for it. Perhaps he can use the time reading the policies I have given you, so the 3 days will not be a total waste.

lastly, I see from the section below this that you might have uploaded an image from a website and called it yours. If that is true, please do not do it again. Misplaced Pages is dependent on free content, or "fair use" of content from other sites. For Fair Use, we have to have a very good reason to use it. Otherwise Misplaced Pages could get i trouble. I'd give you the policy link about that, too, but I don't want to overwhelm you all at once. Jeffpw (talk) 19:31, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Image:Claz.jpg

Can you confirm that you did not take this photo (despite the tag you used) and that you merely stole it from the school website? --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You put a tag on it which reads "I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain.". You are not the copyright holder. You are not in a position to release it into the public domain.

You say "i said that the school made it available to anyone". Exactly what is your evidence for this? --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Was she the copyright holder? I think that as the image is merely of a bunch of people, and there is considerable ambiguity about whether or not wikipedia has a licence for it, it would be better if we let it get deleted. You have a connection with the school? You have a camera? Point the camera at the school, press the button, and add the results to the article. Meanwhile please be very careful when adding licence tags to images ... the self part of PD-self should have been clue enough for you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

My view: yes it should be deleted; it is of uncertain licence. That is more important than your opinion that the page will look worse without it. My further view: a photo of a gang of girls standing on a staircase is not a very good image illustrative of a school. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Adoption Request

Thank you for requesting adoption with User:Marbles. Adoption can offer a whole host of benefits to an adoptee, including personal hints, advice, progress checks and much more.
For your information, I live in the United Kingdom, and therefore my timezone is UTC or BST. I am available on Misplaced Pages most days, and can offer advice on a range of topics including copyrighting images, policies, edit disputes, basic formatting, NPOV and referencing, alongside other ideas. To contact me, you can leave a message on my talk page or e-mail me.
If you wish to finalise an adoption status, please add {{adoptee|Marbles}} on your user page. If you already have the userbox {{adoptme}} on your page, please replace that with the one above. I can then add you to my list of adoptees. Please don't hesitate to contact me. Many thanks, /Marbles (talk) 19:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Your summary of WP:AGF

Was very good. You have a clear understanding of this important policy. The only things I would add to it are the ideas that you can discuss the behaviors without having to criticize or comment on what you think the motivation is. Also, consensus is very important. Rather than thinking that somebody who has an opposing point of view is against you or damaging the encyclopedia, you can discuss the situation on the talk page with other editors until several editors for a conclusion as to the best way forward with the solution. I thank you for reading this, and look forward to your summary of the next policy I gave you. Once we get this through with, we can start with some fun editing. Maybe you can think of an article you want to create, and we can work on it on your sandbox; otherwise, we can find a little something that is not so busy and polish and expand it. Misplaced Pages has millions of articles, so there's bound to be something you would like to work on. Jeffpw (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, not biting new users is very important, and most of us try to avoid doing that. We are aware that Misplaced Pages is a whole new way of collaborating for most people, and remember how it was when we arrived. That said, sometimes it is necessary to be blunt if your nice messages are not getting the point across. Steve is a case in point. To me, he showed remarkable patience with you, and only ended up bluntly talking to you in an effort to make himself understood after multiple attempts had failed. He is an excellent user who works on the Help desk here, answering a wide variety of questions from people who don't have a clue. He is also a long term adopter of new users who are having trouble. Since you mentioned him to me, let me say something clearly (not to give you a slap, but so you clearly understand): the messages you have been leaving him, especially since you problem with the two articles has been resolved, could be considered harassment. People get blocked for that. I strongly advise you to walk away from that dispute, even if you feel you have been wronged. And once again: assume good faith. In other words, no more contact, unless it has to do with articles he has edited you have questions about. He gives far too much of his time to this project, without having to respond to every question somebody has (especially personal ones). Jeffpw (talk) 21:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Steve and password

You have nothing to gain and everything to lose by prolonging your dispute with Steve. He has clearly stated the conversation is over. Any further attempts on your part to continue it will be seen as harassment, not only by him, but by the community at large. Once again, even if you think you are right, the best course of action is to let it go. Misplaced Pages:Truce might be good reading for you at this point, particularly the first section. As to your password, you can change it in your preferences at the top of the page. I suggest you do that immediately, if others are logging on in your account. Imagine if they log on under you name, vandalize the encyclopedia, and you end up getting banned. You wouldn't want that, would you? Jeffpw (talk) 21:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:CIV

Your summary showed you read it, but you should give it some more thought and perhaps read it again. For instance, one point they make is that letting things go if you feel you have been slighted is an effective way of coping if you feel somebody has been uncivil towards you. It also explains how incivility make for an unproductive editing environment. I guess the long and short of it is treat other people here as you would have them treat you. It's pretty straightforward, when you think about it.

I really appreciate that you are reading this stuff. I know it's not as much fun as making articles or improving existing ones, but it will give you a solid footing when you start working with others here. And I do see a big difference in your editing here in a very short time. I'm happy I decided to adopt you, and hope the feeling is mutual. Jeffpw (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Advice

Hi there; I would like to give you some advice, which you may take on board or ignore at your discretion.

We have, I think, never interacted, although as you have been on wikipedia for a very short time this is not surprising. You have been adopted by Jeff, who is an experienced editor and who can help you enormously if you let him. This implies a recognition on your part of what you know and do not know, and what you are and are not competent to do.

Your comments about adopting other users does, I regret to say, indicate a significant lack of understanding on your part of the extent of the wikipedia project; an adopter is expected to be competent to answer questions about all aspects of the encyclopedia, and while Jeff certainly is, I feel that at this time you are not.

There have been comments made about your username, which is daft but probably not against guidelines, given that Andrew Rice is not a notable character. But changing to a somewhat less provocative username might be a smart move, if you intend to be a serious wikipedia contributor. --Anthony.bradbury 17:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Echoing Anthony, I have some concerns about your user name. If you are indeed using the name of a school friend or acquaintance, your edits could be associated with him. Give some thought to perhaps changing it. I am a bit skeptical that Andrew Rice is your "favorite celebrity", given that he is a minor politician from a different country than yours. If you do decide to change your name here, an administrator can assist you, and make sure that all of your edits will be transferred to your new name. Give it some thought.

My bringing the issue to those in charge of user names is not a sign that I do not like you. Indeed, it was out of concern for you that I did it. I simply want to help you become a good editor here, and don't want this account to be an obstacle for you.

As to your MySpace account, I don;t feel it necessary for us to expand our relationship further than Misplaced Pages. There is more than enough here to keep us occupied, and it is probably better if we focus on improving your editing experience. I do hope you understand.

Let me know if you have read the WP:NPA policy, and please give me a summary of that when you are ready. With that behind us, we can start working on editing proper. Jeffpw (talk) 19:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Changing your username

This page can assist you in doing it. It will actually take a bureaucrat here to effect the change, and the page suggests you might simply want to register a new name. I would actually recommend the latter, as you can do that yourself without help. All our talk about adoption can be transferred to your new page if you choose that option. I have changed the link toyour sandbox. You combined the procedure for renaming an internal link with that of an external link. Here you can see what I did. Jeffpw (talk) 19:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

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