Talk:Church of Scientology: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 17:40, 9 January 2008 edit24.82.203.201 (talk) Undid revision 183202439 by GoodDamon (talk) - discussion was called vandalism← Previous edit		Revision as of 17:52, 9 January 2008 edit undoGoodDamon (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers6,271 edits Undid revision 183209683 by 24.82.203.201 (talk) - This isn't a "discussion," this is trolling Next edit →
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	::I agree. What kind of article wouldn't include that? I just checked the articles for the Roman Catholic religion and for the religion of Islam and both of those articles clearly define the beliefs of those religions. ] (]) 00:48, 23 December 2007 (UTC)		::I agree. What kind of article wouldn't include that? I just checked the articles for the Roman Catholic religion and for the religion of Islam and both of those articles clearly define the beliefs of those religions. ] (]) 00:48, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
	:::I believe we already have an article about ]. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:54, 23 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->		:::I believe we already have an article about ]. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:54, 23 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Criminal Actions ==

	I think the intro should contain the phrase 'criminal organization' or something similar. The entire church is based on the actions of the Hubbards are their crimes are well documented (Snow White, etc), as are the ongoing harassment campaigns, baseless lawsuits, etc.

	As it's fact (proof available on many Misplaced Pages pages) that the "church" and prominent members routinely engaged in intentionally criminal acts, with full church authority, it seems that this should feature prominently. Anything less horribly misrepresents the situation.

	How about "The Church of Scientology is organization devoted to the practice and the promotion of the Scientology belief system."?

	Anything less hardly seems NPOV, as the current intro makes scientology look like any law-abiding organization. It's like opening an article on the mafia with "A large organization run for the appreciation of Italian culture". Far more important to a lay reader is what CoS does, not its purported goal. It's not for the practice of a religion, it's for the financial gain of its leadership and the complete extra-legal ruin of those who oppose it. Hubbard said as much, and the CoS's actions and his routinely demonstrated their intent.

	Anyone who disagrees with me is fair game - I'll fake crimes in your name, attack you, file false lawsuits against you, and openly advocate your murder. Oh wait, that's Scientology's tactic... I'll just challenge your points. :) ] (]) 13:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

	== Unwarranted reverts ==

	Hey! While I am not being neutral to the church, I make a valid point. The article lacks crucial facts and has a huge POV slant because of it.

	People deserve to be told that the "church" they're reading about has itself been convicted, as have its founders and leaders, of criminal actions related to harassment and murder of journalists, etc.

	Look to the article on ] as an example of how to deal with an article about a living entity whose reputation has been tainted by legal scandals.

	Furthermore, even if I am incorrect, this is NOT vandalism, this is an honest opinion about the validity of the article and I will not idly tolerate abuse. If you have any problems, deal with them here on the talk page, where other readers of the article can participate. ] (]) 17:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:52, 9 January 2008

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v t e Scientology
Beliefs and practices	Abortion Auditing Books Bridge Clear Dianetics Dianetics (book) Disconnection E-meter Engram Ethics and justice Glossary and Terminology Implant Incident Keeping Scientology Working Marcab Confederacy Marriage MEST Operating Thetan OT VIII Reactive mind Scientology and religious groups Reincarnation Sec Check Sex Gender Homosexuality Silent birth Space opera Study Technology Thetan Training routines Xenu
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Government reports	Anderson Report (AUS) Dumbleton–Powles Report (NZ) Foster Report (UK) Lee Report (CAN)
Litigation	R v Registrar General, ex p Segerdal Hubbard v Vosper United States v. Hubbard X. and Church of Scientology v. Sweden Church of Scientology v. Sweden Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology Hernandez v. Commissioner New Era Publications International ApS v. Carol Publishing Group and Jonathan Caven-Atack Church of Scientology of California v. Armstrong R. v. Church of Scientology of Toronto Church of Scientology Intl. v. Fishman and Geertz Hill v. Church of Scientology of Toronto Religious Technology Center v Lerma Religious Technology Center v. Netcom On-Line Communication Services, Inc. Church of Scientology Intl. v. Time Warner, Inc., et al. Arenz, Röder and Dagmar v. Germany Church of Scientology Moscow v. Russia Headley v. Church of Scientology International
Organizations (and properties)	Cadet Org Celebrity Centre Château Élysée Church of Scientology Church of Scientology International Guaranty Building Church of Spiritual Technology Trementina Base Flag Service Organization Flag Building/Super Power Building Flag Ship Service Org Freewinds Founding Church of Scientology Galaxy Press Author Services building Golden Era Productions (Gold Base) Hubbard Association of Scientologists International International Association of Scientologists Office of Special Affairs Religious Technology Center Rehabilitation Project Force Saint Hill Manor Scientology Missions International Sea Org
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Affiliated organizations and recruitment	Association for Better Living and Education Applied Scholastics Celebrities Citizens Commission on Human Rights Concerned Businessmen's Association of America Criminon Cult Awareness Network The Delphian School Free Zone Front groups Moxon & Kobrin Narconon New York Rescue Workers Detoxification Project Oxford Capacity Analysis Safe Environment Fund Second Chance Program Trademarks Volunteer Ministers The Way to Happiness Foundation World Institute of Scientology Enterprises Youth for Human Rights International
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"Miroljub Labus Scientologist". Nacional. July 28, 2004.

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Reincarnations and Sea Org

there are, however, no reports yet of reincarnated Scientologists rejoining the Sea Org.

While amusing, this seems like a rather POV jab at Scientology. -- Khym Chanur 05:44, Nov 21, 2003 (UTC)

What's more, those who died in the early days of the Sea Org would just now be coming of age - assuming they reincarnated immediately after death. Mkweise 18:49, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It can be interpreted as a jab at Scientology, yes, but it can also be a valid question: Does Scientology in fact believe that any of the people who signed contracts with the Church of Scientology promising to come back and take up the same job after they reincarnate have, in fact, done so? If they do, who, and what is their evidence? If not, how do they explain the absence? (While Mkweise's point about the timing is a good one, I don't know if that's their explanation for the absence, or if in fact they do have Sea Org members who are considered to be reincarnations of previous signers?) -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:40, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There have been Sea Org members who claim to be past life Sea Org. However, there are no official releases regarding them. Marbahlarbs 16:32, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

C'mon people get real. Suppose for a flashing instant it was all real, that people drop a body, pick up another body and with the new identity, get active in Sea Org again. If the Church of Scientology claimed such a thing had happened, do you think anyone could keep a straight face while reading it? lol. Do you think such a person would come forth and announce himself? Does the phrase, "prove it !" come to mind? lol Terryeo 21:37, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm these Scientologist have been playing too much Second Life by the sounds of things... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.63.47 (talk) 17:42, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Word to that. PS: what about that billion year contract they enter when they first go into scientology? Does the article talk about that? 76.30.72.197 (talk) 22:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Who's at the top?

I want to know more about the inner circle at the top of the CoS. Does the evidence suggest they're firm believers, or is there evidence that they know the whole thing is a scam? People pour money into the CoS. Where does that money go? Who's getting rich? Who's the CEO? Did these people rise up through the ranks (which would be evidence that they're believers) or did they skip the typical initiation phase?

Tottenham Court Road photo

The photo of the Scientology Centre on Tottenham Court Road is out of date. The centre has since been refurbished and the front of it looks rather different - red sign rather than blue and a glassier doorway.

Germany Seeks to Ban Scientology

Staff (December 3, 2007). "German Official Wants Scientology Ban". Associated Press. Retrieved 2007-12-04. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
Staff (December 7, 2007). "Germany Seeks to Ban Scientology". Associated Press. Retrieved 2007-12-07. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
Charbonneau, Louis (December 7, 2007). "German ministers say Scientology unconstitutional". Reuters. Retrieved 2007-12-07. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

This source info should be mentioned in the article. Cirt 10:04, 4 December 2007 (UTC).

Vandalism

I just undid some vandalism. Someone added in a sentence of offensive obscenities in the article. Is this article vandalized often? When you undo something, does it automatically sent a message to the wikipedia moderators who look over offensive things, and ban the person making them? Or does it record the IP address and if someone gets their additions undone a few times, then they look into it? Any ideas? Dream Focus (talk) 14:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Beliefs

I think a brief section explaining exactly what the beliefs of the Church of Scientology are. It can reference the main article "Scientology", but I think an article on a church is incomplete without what its beliefs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.70.97 (talk) 07:48, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. What kind of article wouldn't include that? I just checked the articles for the Roman Catholic religion and for the religion of Islam and both of those articles clearly define the beliefs of those religions. Dream Focus (talk) 00:48, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe we already have an article about Scientology beliefs and practices. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GoodDamon (talk • contribs) 02:54, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

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