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Revision as of 09:03, 13 January 2008

User talk:Stone put to sky/Archive 1 User talk:Stone put to sky/Archive 3

Your message

Thanks for the message. Your friend sounds like quite the adventurer; you know we could really use your help on Ukelele if you have the time. You have expert knowledge that we need. You don't even need to edit the page if you lack the time or interest; criticism on the talk page would be just as welcome. There's also Talk:Ukulele/Comments. Thanks. —Viriditas | Talk 08:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Request

Next time you make false accusations regarding me, please present evidence.--MONGO 12:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I have not made any sorts of false accusations about you. And you know that. Stone put to sky (talk) 08:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This bogus unsubstantiated post to AN/I is precisely the kind of misinformation and wrongful allegation I am referring to. Don't repeat this kind of nonsense unless you can provide evidence. There is the distinct possibility that more than a few people other than myself and the others you slandered might disagree with you. I haven't edited that page for six months, Tom harrison hasn't edited anywhere since 11/24 and Morton Devonshire left the project before that. Get your facts straight next time....and cease making insults.--MONGO 09:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The page is in a diff here on Misplaced Pages as well as a long thread on another site which, conveniently enough, includes a great many people who have gotten quite familiar with your shenanigans from the inside.

As for my own evidence, let's just say that you've met me before but forgot who i am. So my suggestion is that people in glass houses shouldn't start throwing stones. Stone put to sky (talk) 09:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the laugh, Stone. I figure your banning is inevitable...I'll just wait for you to call someone a fascist again just because they disagree with you.--MONGO 09:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean to say that using the word "fascist" is worse than insulting someone as being a "liberal"? Stone put to sky (talk) 11:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah. I don't see anything bad with being a labelled a liberal or a conservative for that matter. Calling anyone here a fascist has an entirely different meaning.--MONGO 20:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Stone, to put everything in perspective, I am a conservative. However, I also know that my contributions to Misplaced Pages must be from a neutral point of view as per our policy here. I also have some friends and even a few relatives who are moderate liberals. To be honest, they know that this is their political view, and they will admit it with no shame. If you called me a liberal, I wouldn't care for it, but it wouldn't offend me either. If you are a liberal, that's fine with me. Here is where we have a problem - You really need to stop using the word "fascist". Please see this section here: Differences and similarities with Nazism from our encyclopedia page defining the term. You are treading into thin ice using this word to describe users who view differently than you do. If you keep this up, will be reported for disruption. Please consider my advice and do not ever use that term again to describe other users here. JungleCat Shiny!/Oohhh! 02:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Come now -- you are one of the most extreme and biased editors on Misplaced Pages. For my part, my edits have presented only bare, neutral facts for the simple reason that any time i have tried to add neutral, properly sourced commentary MONGO has rounded up his passel of sockpuppeteers and kiddie-thugs and had them delete it. Both of you are well known for your lack of both neutrality and civility in Misplaced Pages, so it is quite ironic to see you popping in here to lecture me on the mattter. Stone put to sky (talk) 07:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

First, i think that Misplaced Pages has made it quite clear that when we are discussing matters of protocol and sourcing the website itself is not to be used.

Second, the Nazis were not the only fascists. There were British, Italian, Central European (Croatian and Czech, in particular), Russian and French fascists. As well as quite a large number of U.S. fascists, as well (of which our current president's grandfather -- along with Henry Ford -- was a loud and proud supporter).

My suggestion to you both is that you need to get out of the house a bit more. Judging by the amount of time you each spend on Misplaced Pages you really don't have enough experience of this world to be attempting the arguments you are putting forth here, because with only a tiny bit more research on the word you'd discover that fascism as a political philosophy is still alive and well with supporters who are happily, openly going about their work in places like Italy, France, Germany, Japan, and Britain (among other places). There are Russian and Central European fascists, as well -- not to mention folks here in the U.S, most of whom call themselves "libertarian" or "conservative", these days. Simply because you two do not particularly care to be labeled as a "fascist" does not, ipso facto, turn that particular word into an insult - it is a clearly defined, neutral term which, in all its aspects, perfectly fits Devonshire, MONGO and Harrison's political advocacy (i have much less interaction with JungleCat, so i can' really say one way or the other on that). It is a name that many people around the world use to describe their political philosophy, and when they use the word they speak it proudly and without shame. Unlike MONGO's use of the term "liberals" or "extremists", there is nothing a priori insulting about the word.

Simply put, my use of the word "fascist" is as a neutral, descriptive term; perhaps you don't know any true Fascists. I, however, happen to count at least two as close personal friends of mine. I myself am not a fascist, and i think the perspective of people who advocate fascism is rather painfully limited and potentially destructive (fearsomely so). However, in the case of those two personal friends of mine i am still able to discuss politics with them politely and openly, and -- unlike in my relations with the cabal that you two happen to be a part of -- we are able to find a rhetorical space that allows for intelligent conversation.

So i must, once again, politely decline your admonitions. If you would like to take this up as an RfC somewhere i'll be happy to attend. Until such time, however, that the Oxford Dictionary singularly labels this particular word as a "pejorative epithet" (those big words are what we linguists use to mean "insult"), then you must simply deal with the fact that you are not allowed to stop people from using it when referring to you. Stone put to sky (talk) 07:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Your "fascist" friends...do you call them "dumbshit"s as well? It does seem old news ot warn you about what you did sometime ago. But since you seem to not understand that it is just as unacceptable now as it was then, I guess I'll have to waste editing time dealing with your ongoing inability to adhere to our policies.--MONGO 08:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

"Our" policies? They seem more like "MONGO's personal policies" to me. At any rate, the "dumbshit" was clearly beyond the pale, which i admitted and am recalcitrant over. I haven't made that mistake again, and i won't. But i will insist, once again, that it was not the word "fascist" that was an insult. By adding "dumbshit" to *any* phrase it becomes an insult. Such as if someone were to call me a "dumbshit anarchist" -- insult, yes. But not the "anarchist" part.

And i will once again point out the implicit threat in your words; you are acting like the famed bully you are well known to be, MONGO -- appearing, once again, on my talk page and issuing threats all made up as if Misplaced Pages guidelines support you.

Of course, you may get me banned -- but it won't have anything to do with Misplaced Pages guidelines. It will, instead, be a product of the scheming you do on your off-site IRC chats and noticeboards. Stone put to sky (talk) 08:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Is that a fact? I see, I am so nefarious in my actions. I am asking you for the last time to adhere to our policies, and those include not using derogatory terms to describe those you disagree with. In case you have not seen them before, look at WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. I don't appreciate being called a fascist or having my integrity impuned with false allegations about running some cabal.--MONGO 08:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Asking me to adhere to which policy would that be, exactly? Once again: "fascist" in and of itself is not an inherently derogatory term. If you don't believe me then simply go look it up in a dictionary or political science textbook. As for your running of the cabal, there is at least one person who has come out and admitted that he was in it. There are others i know who have documentary evidence to back up their own claims. I'm not ready to move yet, MONGO, but when i am it really won't matter if it's under this name or another one, so ban away. Stone put to sky (talk) 09:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)