Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:04, 30 January 2008

This is a Misplaced Pages user talk page. If you find this page on any site other than the English Misplaced Pages, you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated, and that I may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Misplaced Pages itself. The original page is located at http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:David_Gerard .

Past talk:
User talk:David Gerard/archive 1 (4 Jan 2004 - 31 Dec 2004)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 2 (1 Jan 2005 - 30 Jun 2005)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 3 (1 Jul 2005 - 31 Dec 2005)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 4 (1 Jan 2006 - 31 Dec 2006)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 5 (1 Jan 2007 - 31 Dec 2007)

Please put new stuff at the bottom, where I'll see it. m:CheckUser requests (sockpuppet checks, etc) should go to WP:RFCU unless you're letting me know about a particular problem we've been tracking, in which case I look here far more often.

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Mindbenders-1971-cover-ISBN0854350616.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Mindbenders-1971-cover-ISBN0854350616.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Misplaced Pages:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 17:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

West Australian Music Industry Awards

I would have added the info for the 1990, 1991 & 1992 awards but I haven't found a complete listing of who won which award - if you have any info on more than just who won the golden WAMi in 1991 ;) then let me know.Dan arndt (talk) 23:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Best place to ask would be WAM. Ask for press clippings, they'll have 'em. (I left my archive in Perth and it's jussssst dusssssst ... unless there's a paper or two in a box on a shelf in the front room.) - David Gerard (talk) 00:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Elonka 3

Thank you for your support in my RfA, and the pithy "not insane" comment.  ;) The RfA was definitely a dramatic debate, that landed on WP:100! I paid close attention to everything that was said, and, where possible, I will try to incorporate the (constructive) criticism towards being a better administrator. I'm taking things slowly for now, partially because of the holidays and all the off-wiki distractions. :) I'm also working my way through the Misplaced Pages:New admin school and double-checking the relevant policies, and will gradually phase into the use of the new tools. My main goals are to help out with various backlogs, but I also fully intend to keep on writing articles, as there are several more that I definitely want to get to WP:FA status! Thanks again, and have a great new year, --Elonka 18:02, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well done! - David Gerard (talk) 00:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

RFAR discussion

Hi David, there's a lengthy discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/IRC/Proposed_decision#The_FoF_regarding_David_Gerard that you might like to read. Kosebamse (talk) 06:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

IRC arbitration

Hi. Could you please advise whether you anticipate posting any statement or evidence in the IRC arbitration case soon? As you may have seen, I am abstaining from voting on any findings regarding you pending an opportunity to review your comments, but cannot continue to do so indefinitely. Thanks for your anticipated response. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Emailed. Public note here. I have a new appreciation of the difficulty people brought before the AC have in fitting writing up a good statement between real life - David Gerard (talk) 23:58, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi David. I'm not sure if you noticed my mention of an edit summary of yours on the talk page of the proposed decision, but do you have time to discuss the edit summary you made here back in June last year? "reverting page to a version that doesn't suck, as 0wnz0r of this here project page." I realise that sarcasm doesn't come across well in printed media, so I wanted to ask if you were being sarcastic here or serious about owning the page (I think that leetspeak is sometimes used like this in a sarcastic manner)? I was thinking of noting this on the evidence page, but wanted to ask you about it first. Thanks. Carcharoth (talk) 13:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Original statement answered this already - David Gerard (talk) 14:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I missed that. Thanks. This raises two further questions in my mind: (1) Would you be happy for the page to be in the Help: namespace? (2) Why rely on people to read edit summaries instead of making the "owner" point clear on the page itself? I appreciate you may be busy, and have already e-mailed the arbcom, but I'm hoping something useful comes out of all this. Possibly the arbcom decision will address such points, but possibly they won't. Carcharoth (talk) 14:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The page was created to avoid ambiguity and complaints from the very people who trolled it leading to this case, so I can't say I care where it is - David Gerard (talk) 14:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, fair enough. I can't say I agree about calling it trolling. I accept Bishonen's statement that it was a genuine emotional response from Giano and Geogre, followed by FUBAR on all sides. But thanks for taking the time to talk. Carcharoth (talk) 15:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Courtesy note

FYI, a diff involving your name was mentioned in passing at an extension request that I filed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#Request for extension of restrictions at DreamGuy 2, specifically, my extended report at User:Elonka/DreamGuy report. No action is required on your part, I just wanted to let you know. --Elonka 03:27, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Stephen Fry

Regarding your recent edit to Stephen Fry. The placeholder image was originally in use in the infobox, but a consensus was reached that it should not be used. Have a look at the discussion on the talk page for details. For what it's worth, I think the article looks better WITH the placeholder, but we have to bow to consensus when it is reached! -- JediLofty 12:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

A "three no, one yes" straw poll is now binding consensus? You know, I was joking when I said "'Consensus' means a 7:3 vote on an obscure talk page" - David Gerard (talk) 17:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the whole placeholder image thing is a bit over the top. I have never seen a situation where these result in an image being uploaded, and they are unsightly. In my opinion, your resources could be spent on more meaningful contributions to the project instead of flooding it with unnecessary images. vıdıoman (talk • contribs) 19:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Contrariwise, I have seen many when they have resulted in a new free image being uploaded. I wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work. In the case of Fry, I'm now looking around for a suitable freely-licensed image ... - David Gerard (talk) 19:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried contacting the person yourself? More often than not they are more than willing to do so and it saves us from being subjected to this crap. I think the absence of any image at all is more than enough to tell people that an image is needed. vıdıoman (talk • contribs) 19:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you're wrong. They do make Misplaced Pages look unfinished, but that would be because it is. (At least it's better than the previous version of the placeholder.) We are in fact working on precisely that: pointing out that if you want an image that's not horrible, then properly releasing a good promo under a proper free licence will get you and us what we want. See the newly-added Misplaced Pages:Contact us/Photo submission. Once that mechanism's working smoothly, we'll be doing some active promotion of this channel. We've actually put some thought into this matter. In the meantime, placeholder images do in fact gain us photos we wouldn't have otherwise, so are (except in the case of current teen idols, where they attract nothing but copyvios) in fact better than no image - David Gerard (talk) 19:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The Stephen Fry article has been plagued with copyvios for a while now, which is why I put the placeholder there in the first place. We've had everything from Blackadder screenshots to QI DVD covers, with no reasonable images we can use at all. Just as an aside - I prefer articles to have the placeholder, I'm just going along with what the majority appear to want! -- JediLofty 09:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Stephen Fry is apparently quite the fan of Misplaced Pages, so hopefully just contacting him or his agent or whatever may well work! - David Gerard (talk) 12:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

• Please uncheck whatever AWB option converts <references /> to {{reflist}}. Per {{reflist}}, "there is no consensus that small font size should always be used for all references". Gimmetrow 04:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

  Ah, OK, sorry about that - I saw that in the default AWB changes and was wondering myself if that one was a good idea - David Gerard (talk) 12:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

London Meetup: 12 January 2008

Hi! There's going to be a London Misplaced Pages Meetup coming Saturday, 12 January 2008. If you are interested in coming along take part in the discussion over at Misplaced Pages:Meetup/London7. The discussion is going on until tomorrow evening and the official location and time will be published at the same page late Thursday or early Friday. Hope to see you Saturday. —Psychonaut (talk) 06:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I fear I'm unlikely to make it this time. Mind you, what we need to do is set one up at the Pembury. Not in the city, but certainly enough Wikipedians as regulars ... - David Gerard (talk) 12:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

McIntosh

• Image:McIntosh.jpg
• CC-BY McIntosh apple, would need the background photoshopped away

HTH, Lupo 22:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Added :-) - David Gerard (talk) 13:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Centralized TV Episode Discussion

Over the past months, TV episodes have been reverted by (to name a few) TTN, Eusebeus and others. No centralized discussion has taken place, so I'm asking everyone who has been involved in this issue to voice their opinions here in this centralized spot, be they pro or anti. Discussion is here . --Maniwar (talk) 18:08, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I liked it so much I thought I would share it

Misplaced Pages:Don't just ignore the process WAS 4.250 (talk) 09:12, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Already at Uncyclopedia:Process is important, complete with "Satan hates his job too" picture ;-) Uncyc is CC-by-nc-sa, but I wrote it and GFDL is fine by me - David Gerard (talk) 10:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Knol

Thanks for your contributions to the knol article. You went through the article and capitalized the word "knol" whenever it was a proper noun. We had a discussion about capitalization of the term in the talk page. I'm not going to undo your changes but please, read the discussion and I leave it to you to undo your changes or keep them and explain in the talk page. Thanks! DuckeJ (talk) 21:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mission-earth-1-the-invaders-plan.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Mission-earth-1-the-invaders-plan.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Misplaced Pages constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Cirt (talk) 13:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and Misplaced Pages's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science. Cirt (talk) 01:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Security Check Children

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Security Check Children, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and Misplaced Pages's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Security Check Children. Cirt (talk) 01:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Solaris8-cde.png

Thanks for uploading Image:Solaris8-cde.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Misplaced Pages:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 08:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Your comments on AfDs

Can you please be more polite? Can you please stick to commenting on whether or not coverage in secondary sources seems to show notability in these topics, as opposed to commenting personally on me? Please? Cirt (talk) 12:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC).

Unfortunately, I can't think of a better way to put it than "you are woefully ignorant of the subject area you are mass-nominating for deletion", because you are. I'm sure you don't like hearing it, and I have no question of you doing this in good faith - but that doesn't mean you have good judgement, as I fear you are conclusively demonstrating you do not. Misplaced Pages is not an exercise in bureaucracy - David Gerard (talk) 12:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Why do you insist on commenting on me personally in every single AfD? Why can't we have a discussion based on the notability of the articles? Please, David Gerard, I would have expected more from you, this is really not appreciated. Please. Cirt (talk) 12:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC).

Er ... that would be because you are the person who is in fact doing the mass-nominating. As such, your subject area ignorance is in fact directly relevant. The obvious solution is not to mass-nominate articles for deletion in an area you are clearly ignorant of. "Notability" is a guideline at best, and one which is hotly questioned because of its overuse by the sincere but ignorant in mass nomination of articles in subject areas they have no knowledge of. The "reliable sourcing" guidelines are guidelines at best also, and need a lot of work per subject area. You do realise that for Scientology there are plenty of cases where Usenet articles are suitable sources, because that's where the history of Scientology 1995-2000 actually happened? You didn't know that? This is what I mean when I speak of the hazards of mass nomination in a subject area you are ignorant of - you can end up looking exceedingly foolish, and can expect to have this pointed out - David Gerard (talk) 12:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Can we please have AfD discussions based on the subject matter and whether or not there is enough coverage in secondary sources to warrant notability? Can we please not try to shift the focus of the debate to parsing my level of expertise? Cirt (talk) 12:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC).

For your information, I have knowledge of the subject matter. I was putting that knowledge aside, because according to Misplaced Pages:Notability, notability is assessed through coverage in other sources. "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Cirt (talk) 12:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC).

And you nominated "Tone scale" for deletion rather than using your alleged knowledge to fix it? Surely the latter would serve the reader better.

I will be working on the articles, and have asked others to help (and, FWIW, specifically asked them not to comment on the AFD unless they're a regular Misplaced Pages editor already, as it's not a poll - that the very best thing they could do would be to work on the articles). However, ignorant mass nomination for deletion is a problem, one that seriously needs attention, and one that this is merely the latest example of - David Gerard (talk) 12:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Break

Please see the recent AfD I nominated for Fear (novel). A user from the AfD showed me that there was enough coverage in independent sources, per WP:NOTE, and I voluntarily withdrew my own AfD. That's all I want - a discussion based on whether or not there is independent coverage of the subject matter. Cirt (talk) 12:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

• If you can show me politely by commenting about the articles and not about me, that any of these articles have significant coverage in independent sources as per WP:NOTE - I will voluntarily withdraw any of these AFDs. I do wish you would be more polite and AGF though. Cirt (talk) 12:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC).
  • Look, I'm sorry things recently seem to be getting heated relatively quickly. I apologize if it came across that I was mass deleting things I was ignorant of, but that's not the case. I just don't want to assess notability based on my own personal opinion, but rather based on whether or not there is coverage in independent sources, enough to have an article that is based on these sources, and not based on WP:OR, or on primary sources written by Hubbard/Scientology, which then opens up the tendency for WP:OR. So far you haven't really given much assertion or evidence of coverage in independent sources about any of these subjects - but just keep on commenting again and again about me. I'll do my best to try not to get offended that you are doing this and I will try to assume good faith that you mean well in your comments. Again, if you just show a couple examples of some coverage/discussion in independent sources that are not primary sources - I will voluntarily withdraw that AfD. Cirt (talk) 12:59, 21 January 2008 (UTC).
    • I also come to realize that I should not have sent these all to AfD at the same time, but one at a time, and for that I apologize. I will not do something like that again. Cirt (talk) 14:46, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

User:204.185.159.249

I saw that this IP address was indef blocked by you back in 2005 beccause it was believed to be an open proxy. I came across it while doing some user talk shared ip tagging (at User talk:204.185.159.249). I don't think that it's likely to be an open proxy or a zombie computer since the address is registered to an educational institution, so I was wondering if you would object to my unblocking the IP address? Ioeth _{(talk contribs friendly)} 22:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

AN/I discussion

Hi David. There's a discussion ongoing at AN/I regarding your block of User:Piperdown as a sock of WordBomb. Just to let you know, and that we would appreciate your weighing in their with your comments as to the block. Apparently, Piperdown has been blocked for some time but requested unblock review just today so User:Cla68 has requested community discussion - Alison 07:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

In fact, the discussion is here . Thincat (talk) 15:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Duh - sorry, my bad. At least I had the link right :) - Alison 15:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

David, that discussion has really heated up in the last day. As soon as you're online it would be very helpful if you weighed in. Durova 06:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

My Rfa

I wish to thank you for being supportive of my effort to regain my adminship. Though it was not successful, your support was still very much appreciated. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you. Thank you!--MONGO 18:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sanity check

Hi, would you mind having a look at this diagram and telling me if it's more or less accurate?

Are oversight & CU basically synonymous with ArbCom + ex-ArbCom?

And if you know of any method at all to measure anon editors, that would be cool too.

thanks, pfctdayelise (talk) 13:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

/i/ boroud yur werdz

User talk:Jimbo#WikiNews is a crack whore. I'm totally doing science with my . . . well, you know. --JustaHulk (talk) 16:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• David Gerard (talk · contribs), perhaps now would be a good time for you to provide feedback on my actions, as well as my apology to you regarding my admitting I was sorry for nominating multiple AfDs at once? Cirt (talk) 16:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

*blush* Yes. I shall tonight. Sorry for the delay - David Gerard (talk) 20:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Apology to Cirt

I'd like to say sorry to Cirt for being such an arse on several AFDs last week. I may have disagreed with the deletion nominations, but being a dick was not the way to do it. I apologise to Cirt and the wiki in general for my dickishness. I shall try to do better.

When I get a spare bl**dy second (stupidly busy at work and home), I look forward to working with Cirt on our Scientology articles :-) There's quite a lot to be done ... - David Gerard (talk) 22:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. If that's how you feel, you may wish to comment at User_talk:Jimbo#WikiNews_is_a_crack_.22harlot.22_.28someone_didn.27t_like_my_term.29, and/or at Misplaced Pages:Ani#JustAHulk_flaming_on_Jimbo.27s_talkpage.. Cirt (talk) 22:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

*boggle* You know, Jimbo's talk page really is the greatest crank magnet on the whole wiki. I'll try to think of something worth saying there ... - David Gerard (talk) 22:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Future of WP:WEA page

Hi there. Following some discussion on the talk page of the Proposed decision page of the IRC Arbitration case, I was wondering what your views were on the future of WP:WEA after the case closes? I don't know if you are aware that there was a second MfD on the page, which was withdrawn by the nominator as the arbitration case was in progress? Anyway, the first MfD is here, and the second one is here. Since the IRC case has included some pretty clear signals that the page has a specific function and is owned by you, I thought it would be best to get your views on how to handle any future deletion nominations. Would you view those nominations as valid? Could the function of the page be fulfilled another way or in a different location? Would you consider merging the content back to the main WP:IRC page? Would you consider moving the WP:WEA page to your userspace (or meta)? I guess the questions really boil down to whether the discussions that originally led to the formation of WP:WEA are still valid, and if so, whether those discussions over-ride community processes such as MfD? It might seem like a difficult question to answer (or maybe it is simple), but one of the reasons I'm asking is that if the arbitration case closes without any resolution of this issue, there may be more drama. It is possible that a pre-emptive action by you could avoid future drama, which would be good news all round, really. Carcharoth (talk) 02:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)