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Revision as of 21:11, 30 January 2008

Plants Unassessed

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Sorting of the list of species

I sorted the list of species according to their names in English. To me, that seemed like the most logical approach considering that this is the name mentioned first, and also the intended names of the specific articles. It also has the benefit that the only species we currently cover, common rue, comes first in the list. This was reverted without any explanation. Is there a policy on this matter? In that case, could someone please point it out to me? / Alarm 16:19, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

They're alphabetised by scientific name - MPF 15:37, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

In this specific case or as a general rule? If there is a general rule to do so in lists in the article text (and not only in the taxonomy boxes), could you please point me to it? Also not that e.g. the list of citrus fruits at Citrus is alphabetised by English name (and does not even mention the scientific names). To me it seems incredibly counter-intuitive not to order a list by the first term mentioned on each line. / Alarm 17:05, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

There isn't any hard-and-fast rule either way, but generally, alphabetic by scientific makes more sense, as in many / most plant genera, English names simply do not exist for a lot of the species, or if they do, are contrived, invented for the sake of having them, even though in practice they're hardly ever used. This applies to the rue names; my books only give the scientific names, except for R. graveolens which is just given as 'Rue'. Citrus is a very different case, as there most of the names refer to cultivars and hybrids, not species; the three species in the genus are listed alphabetic by scientific name in the taxobox - MPF 17:47, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

I see. Then, I think it would look better to list the species in the taxobox with the scientific name first (as in the Citrus taxobox), and in the article text just skip the list and have something along the lines of "The most well-known species is the Common Rue". Would you agree with that? / Alarm 11:48, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Fine by me, good idea - MPF 22:03, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

It took some time, but now I've finally got around to doing this. Please check that it looks OK, since I'm not very familiar with taxoboxes. / Alarm 17:16, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand why MPF would want to have a citation on the entry I've made on the usage of Rue as bookmarks. It's pretty common knowledge in China that ancient Chinese uses it in this manner. Just look in a dictionary and you would find that standalone, rue is a synonym for bookmarks. An archaic Chinese word for "library" can be literally translated as "rue collection". How do you cite something like that?

Vandalism removed

For some reason some vandalism regarding the Nintendo Wii was in this article. Removed it. DasGreggo 00:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)DasGreggo

Rue as an anti-inflammatory

I don't think this is appropriate for the article, but some might find it interesting. At the university where I used to work, one of the drugs we were developing was an immunosuppressant that was derived from a compound found in Rue (R. graveolens). The research was started based on anecdotal reports of people using tea made from Rue to reduce inflammation. From there, the active ingredient(s) was isolated and identified, and numerous derivations of the chemical were tested for potency and side-effects (mainly ex. situ but also in vivo). The drug we developed is thought to be primarily effective by blocking an ion channel found on white blood cells, by the way.

Please note that what I wrote above should NOT be taken as any sort of advice to drink tea made from Rue. The drug we've developed and are testing is not found in Rue, but is merely chemically related to a class of compounds found in it -- a lot of work has gone into making our drug both more potent and less toxic than the compounds found in Rue. --DanHomerick 05:36, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Homeopathy reference removed

Homeopathy is not prominent relative to this plant. So removed. ScienceApologist (talk) 19:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Being mentioned in as a use of rue in The Oxford Book of Health Food satisfies relevance. Additionally, you had reverted much more than just a removal of the homeopathic mention. Removing so much content can be considered vandalism per Blanking (as I believe the reason to do so are frivolous). Do you have an issue with the rest of the content you removed? -- Levine2112 19:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Nothing was blanked. The content removed was done so because it was trying to insert homeopathy. I will excise just homeopathy if you like. ScienceApologist (talk) 19:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It would still be unjustified by your "prominence" argument. -- Levine2112 19:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

This source has been vetted at Talk:Deadly nightshade#Homeopathy removal justification where the conclusion was reached: these authors included homeopathy anecdotally with no accounting of implications of their inclusion of the subject only as a means of illustration and not to assert any prominence. No one has yet objected to this conclusion, including yourself. ScienceApologist (talk) 19:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect. I have objected to your conclusion, stating: Prominence, as you are using it, is not part of Misplaced Pages's guidelines for inclusion. However, please note that the info about Deadly Nightshade being used as a homeopathic remedy is giving "prominence" by being described in the source, The Oxford Book of Health Food. This source was given the okay at WP:RSN for a similar usage. -- Levine2112 20:06, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:PROMINENCE is part of Misplaced Pages policy. There is nothing wrong with the source, it just doesn't establish the prominence of homeopathy with respect to rue. ScienceApologist (talk) 20:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:PROMINENCE is an invention of your own which is merely a redirect to WP:UNDUE. What in UNDUE do you feel is violated or not met by the given source. Please quote directly from the policy when possible. -- Levine2112 20:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Responded to duplicate post at Talk:Deadly nightshade#Homeopathy removal justification. ScienceApologist (talk) 20:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Unduew weight is not being assigned by mere mention in the said reference. Since Rue and Homeopathy are worthy subjects for Misplaced Pages, their connection should be noted. Since it is incidental, the LACK of prominence assigned by the passing nature of this mention suggests that it is a minor yet appropriate one. Such inordinate attention to this minuscule detail works against the project as a whole. I see no harm in allowing the connection to be present. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 20:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The lack of prominence is clearly analyzed on Talk:Deadly nightshade#Homeopathy removal justification. Per the principle of one-way linking we may find that what is useful for inclusion on a page about homeopathy may not be useful for an inclusion on a topic that is unrelated to homeopathy (for example, plants). We have found this. If you believe that the book is asserting prominence of homeopathy with respect to the plant, present your analysis of the source here. ScienceApologist (talk) 20:55, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

SA, please refrain from citing your own rules as Misplaced Pages policy. The "principle of one-way linking" is your own invention and is not justification for suppressing this information. -- Levine2112 20:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The principle of one-way linking is also found in careful reading of WP:FRINGE. Claims of Misplaced Pages:Information suppression speak for themselves and were rejected by the community because the idea is often used to mask POV-pushing editors who don't like to see their soapboxing removed. ScienceApologist (talk) 21:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see mention of that principle there. Please elucidate. -- Levine2112 21:06, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

"Fringe theories may be excluded from articles about scientific topics when the scientific community has ignored the ideas." It looks like the scientific community has ignored the ideas inasmuch as this source does not assert the prominence of homeopathy with respect to rue, for example. ScienceApologist (talk) 21:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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