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Saeb Erekat

My reading of the UN report is that several 100 were killed in Jenin (though not 500) in April 2002. It would add up, we have 80 in Nablus and then smaller numbers elsewhere, totalling 497 in 9 weeks (March, April and first week of May) in "Palestinian Area A". I'll grant you my "several 100" figure does not appear anywhere in the RS, but it's the "least surprising" conclusion to be drawn from all the evidence, including what Israel told us. The only different report is what appeared from the perpetrators after they'd kept all observers, medical attention etc kept out of the camp for at least 4 (perhaps 8) days while they extensively bulldozed the centre of the camp. 100s of other reports (including Israeli) say there were 100s of dead. None of them ever retract what they said (to the rage of the blogosphere!). However, I'm not actually looking to include this at Saeb Erekat, I just think the rest of it now needs writing to the RSes. PR 08:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

damn it PR, that's not writing to the RSes, that's writing to your personal crackpot interpretation of the RSes. there were major battles through that period in virtually every Palestinian population centre - Nablus, Jenin, Bethlehem, Ramallah, Gaza City, Rafah, etc etc. if you really want, go through the relevant reports from B'Tselem, then match up dates & places of death. <eleland/talkedits> 09:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Middle East Textbooks Invitation

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Request for mediation accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party has been accepted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/New antisemitism. For the Mediation Committee, WjBscribe 18:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Yamashita's gold

You said:

I can't believe Misplaced Pages is still suffering through this nonsense. It's fine to discuss the Seagraves's elaboration of this tall tale, and their silly books, but we owe it to the readers to keep some distance. Enough of this "many credible historians have argued well-documented" weasel worded crap. If the Seagraves claim something, say "the Seagraves claim X" and put it in a section called "According to the Seagraves," stop with the puffery and WP:FRINGE theory pushing. <eleland/talkedits> 18:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The long and favourable review of the Seagraves' book by Chalmers Johnson, a well-known historian and former CIA consultant, in the London Review of Books is a credible source that is also used in the article. Johnson also draws on books by other people. His article can be found here: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n22/john04_.html

I don't think the claims of "nonsense", "tall tales", "silly books", "weasel words" or "fringe theories" can be justified in this instance. Grant | Talk 08:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

note on edits.

eleland, i always enjoy your comments, and find you very insightful. I would like to humbly ask that you not continue the discussion of jewish genes. there is no basis for making any conclusions from such data about the relevance or validity of the jewish people or any other group, even if findings might appear to be in any way conclusive. if the world accepts the jewish people, or any other religious, cultural, social, political, or ethnic group, then all we can do as an encyclopedia is accept and report that basic fact. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

your last comment was really great. I hope you'll think of restoring at least part of it. Of course, it's completely up to you. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 00:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. i just responded to you, at Talk:Palestinian right of return. look forward to further discussion. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 14! TomStar81 (Talk) 03:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Mohamed ahmed dirir hewalbin: No assertion of notability?

• See User_talk:Anthony_Appleyard#Mohamed ahmed dirir hewalbin: No assertion of notability?. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)

The January 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Rolling Stone

The "Rolling Stone" magazine of 7/2/1970 notes that there was "an unmistakeable orange flash at the end of his pistol". This refers to Hunter's pistol. The writer notes that the orange flash appeared "before" Hunter was stabbed.

Angels

Barger and the Hells Angels generally say that Hunter fired his gun. Presumably, they do not count as a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.4.21 (talk) 09:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, don't go telling me about it. Instead edit the article to say that, and be sure to add the text

<ref>Lastname, Firstname. 'Name of media report.' ''Rolling Stone'' 7 Feb 1970</ref>

so we know where you got it. The Hells Angel's claim can also be mentioned and attributed. <eleland/talkedits> 09:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Also please make your comments in one piece, its impossible to reply when i keep getting edit conflicts. Signing would be nice, too (put ~~~~ at the end, you get the ~ from shift+key @ top left of kbd) <eleland/talkedits> 09:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

The article in the "Rolling Stone" of 1970 is already mentioned in the External Links in the article on Hunter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.4.21 (talk) 09:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Please start signing your comments, and please read and cite your sources properly. It actually says,

In one frame, just before is jumped, there is an unmistakable orange flash at the end of the pistol, Bibb adds. It lasts only for this one frame. Bibb is not saying this is a gunshot, and he's not saying it's not. It might be, say, a reflection off someone's watch or glasses. "The Angels say there was a shot fired," says Bibb. "I can't tell you. It's impossible, really, to tell what it is. None of us heard a shot."

So Rolling Stone reported that somebody said there was a flash, but that he couldn't tell whether it was a gunshot, and you want to use that as proof of a gunshot as reported by Rolling Stone? Uhm, no. <eleland/talkedits> 09:32, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The orange flash is visible to any one looking at the "frame", not to one man only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.4.21 (talk) 09:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring as combative language

Eleland, hi. I'm not entirely sure, but when you describe the AoIA reverts as "edit warring" you are maybe too quickly making an accusation. If WP:BRD applies, then after their initial revert you should then move to discussion and not revert back. Right? Anyway, couldn't you use another phrase or omit that, and just go to your well-sourced substantive discussion? And thanks for noting and follwing 1RR, kudos to you. HG | Talk 15:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

1948 Palestine War

Hi Eleland,
You suggested that summaries of other articles be written in this one. For their size, you suggested 2-3 paragraph.
I agreed but I am embarrassed... I had already written a "summary" of the first of the article about the dec47-May48 period and it is more longer. Do you think this could be even more summarized in keeping NPov ?
Thank you for your comments :-) Ceedjee (talk) 20:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Warning

Read and heed — Rlevse • Talk • 21:39, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Abuse truth's diff

Hi,

I have just noticed something odd that I'd like to share with you: this.

In the edit summary of the Revision as of 22:00, 10 February 2008 of talk:Satanic ritual abuse, you can see that it was an entry by Abuse truth in the section "Professional, peer-reviewed evidence". However, the comment was signed thus: Biaothanatoi (talk) 06:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Curious, isn’t it? Seems he cut and pasted an old signature. Note that the timing: 22:00, 10 February 2008 greatly differs from 06:25 of December 2007)!

And it's also curious that Biao just showed up after a vacation in the moment when all of us are voting :)

—Cesar Tort 06:10, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• Well, he did list this under the header "a comment from a previous editor on this talk page." Still, I agree that the timing of Biao's return is very suspicious. Both seem to be SPAs devoted to pushing conspiracy theories about ritual abuse, recovered memory, and other pseudoscientific topics. There was another SPA, User:West world, who was involved in the same kind of thing, but (thankfully) is dormant. I think there's a possibility of either sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry. *** Crotalus *** 06:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• • It is not terribly suspicious, the original comment can be found at Talk:Satanic ritual abuse/Archive 4#POV tag badly needed —mediation also needed! and AT simply copied it. I doubt they're actually the same person. Abuse Truth tends to plead and is not terribly literate. Biao is abusive and denigrating (in the guise of condemning everyone else as abusive and denigrating) but literate. <eleland/talkedits> 08:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

You are right guys: I didn’t pay due attention to AT’s heading before the quotation!

Changing subjects, we don’t need consensus to create Ritualized child abuse. I have been recently involved in a lengthy discussion in talk:Psychohistorical views on infanticide and some people more knowledgeable of WP policies than me believe that the subject lacks notability to merit an article of its own.

I could just move Psychohistorical views on infanticide to Ritualized child abuse: a subject that nobody would dispute that it’s not notable enough. Of course, Lloyd deMause’s theories could be maintained in a section within the article far from the lead called, for example, “Psychological explanations” of ritualized child abuse (just as the infanticide article has such section).

However if I move the page I would need a good lead and also some content totally unrelated to deMause’s theories to justify the moving (I could fix by myself the many articles’ redirects though).

Once Ritualized child abuse is created as a legitimate WP article, there would be no reason to impede us the moving of the legitimate cases of child ritual abuse to the moved article. We can even do it before the SRA page is unlocked. This strategy would comply with WP’s due weight policy by vindicating the majority view in history and sociology that the subjects are distinct (RCA is about actual forensic evidence, while SRA is about a 1980s and 90’s moral panic more analogous with witch-hunts than with ritual crime).

I’ll leave this message in Crot’s talk page as well.

—Cesar Tort 20:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• P.S.

I'm having second thoughts. Instead of messing up with the controversial Psychohistorical views on infanticide, I am willing to start from scratch Ritualized child abuse tonight. Nothing in WP policies impedes me from doing it, right?

—Cesar Tort 23:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• P.P.S.

Done! —Cesar Tort 11:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Aamer Alfar.jpg

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Hugo Chavez Your name was the last on the page so I am hoping you can assist me. Please fix the following things on the article if you can.

Citation There is a request for a citation under Early Life, the sentence can be sourced to The Observer, May 7th 2006, The new kid in the barrio. I do not seem to be able to put this in the article, or know how. Please include if possible. There is a link I found on the internet to the article http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2006/may/07/featuresreview.review

Delete Can someone also delete the last thing added to the article. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez&diff=190976084&oldid=190271538 —Preceding unsigned comment added by N4GMiraflores (talk • contribs) 20:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Israeli Occupation Forces

Another editor has added the {{prod}} template to the article Israeli Occupation Forces, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not and Misplaced Pages:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Misplaced Pages or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 13:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Blocked

You've been blocked for 48 hours for this edit, which I find violates both standard wiki civility policy and arbcom rulings on Mideast articles. Referring to someone's edits as "idiocy" and "garbage" is not the best way to handle things. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

So it's fine to misrepresent your sources, but calling someone on it is block-worthy. Lovely. <eleland/talkedits> 16:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Eleland, it depends on how you call someone on it. You can use {{unblock}} to appeal the block, but please remember that being civil is just as strong a policy on wikipedia as is verifiability. Thanks. -- Avi (talk) 16:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Eleland (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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