Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:08, 10 March 2008

Mike Godwin, as a general rule, does not give legal advice through his Misplaced Pages user talk page. Please do not ask.

Furthermore, he is sick and tired of receiving talk page messages about his goddamn "law". Enough is enough already, people!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bastique (talk • contribs) 14:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, MGodwin, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! 

2005

It appears you are claiming to be Mike Godwin and editing Godwin's law. If you are Mike Godwin then it is inappropriate for you to be editing content related to yourself. If you are not, then please cease pretending to be Mr. Godwin. - Tεxτurε 16:06, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Texture, would you please cite the Misplaced Pages policy you are referring to which states that it is inappropriate for a user to edit content to which they are personally related? I was not aware of such a policy. Hall Monitor 15:58, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm so tempted to write "Don't be a policy nazi" for the irony, but I don't want to offend anyone :-p --ɐuɐʞsəp (ʞɿɐʇ) 13:54, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Hall Monitor, you may be looking for WP:COI. Melsaran (formerly Salaskаn) 04:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

--Hey, I'm pretty sure I didn't violate WP:COI! MikeGodwin 18:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Heya!

Heya Mike! Good to see you here, welcome, and all that stuff. The Wellites are taking over Misplaced Pages! Get the lawn chairs! --jpgordon 14:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Welcome aboard! — xaosflux 15:41, 4 July 2007 (UTC) Welcome! Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 15:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mike and welcome! I actually saw Godwin's Law use correctly and it really worked to prove that the discussion was over. Have fun with you new job. -- Jreferee 08:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to all for the nice welcome. MikeGodwin 12:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Note

On JUL-07-2007, article Mike Godwin was linked from slashdot, a high-traffic website. All prior and subsequent edits in the article are noted in its revision history.

editing Mike Godwin

If you are in fact the subject of the biography in question, you should be aware that there is a clear conflict of interest in editing your own bio. You are not expressly forbidden from doing so, to my knowledge, and if you see something clearly a libelous violation of the WP:BLP policy it would be helpful (to put it mildly) for you to remove it. But other than that specific situation, any changes you wish to be made should generally be proposed on the talk page for other users to review and enact. VanTucky 19:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Changes such as simple formating, spelling, grammar, etc are also generally exempt from that guideline. — xaosflux 20:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

You can also revert clear-cut vandalism and spam from your own article. Jehochman 00:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think threatening Misplaced Pages's lawyer with our policies is such a good idea... -N 01:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, apologizing for inserting myself into this discussion (which probably need not to take place here), I would say that I don't think that to be quite right. Except to the extent that one acts in his official capacity or in furtherance of a directive of the Board of Trustees or an appropriate employee of the Foundation, he/she acts here qua editor only (albeit one, in certain situations, in whom the community reposes trust and whose opinion the community regards as valuable, e.g., Jimbo—who, notably , has stopped, IIRC, editing his article in view of the objections of many to his contravening COI and its predecessors) and consequently ought to comport his/her editing with our content and behavior policies. To be sure, I don't have a particular problem with a subject's editing his/her article where he/she does so neutrally, and I'm not sure that any of Mike's edits were disfavored by COI, etc. (some were, in any case, made, one surmises, when he was not at all acquainted with en.wiki), but I don't think it is appropriate for one, in the context of welcoming a new editor, to apprise the latter of relevant policies. Joe 19:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I agree with Joe that if I edit this article (or any other article) my edits should be considered only as those of any regular editor, and not as those of an employee of the Wikimedia Foundation (unless otherwise indicated). I'm not the author or originator of this article, and, while I have occasionally corrected factual errors/fact-related edits in it, I have done so in ways I believe to be consistent with COI and NPOV. As a lawyer who has had a lot of his career focus on the distinction between fact and opinion, and as a journalist with more than 20 years' experience at researching and presenting facts neutrally, you may be sure that I don't want to get into an NPOV-type thrash here. That said, I hope you will appreciate that I will try to eschew the common practice of having sockpuppets do my dirty work. Instead, I plan to stick to edits that are defensible under Misplaced Pages policy as I understand it. A note: I've actually been editing Misplaced Pages articles generally for many years now. Because I believe in the value of anonymous contributions, I've made a political point of not signing most of them. I may change my mind about this over time, but the MikeGodwin login is a relatively late addition. I should add, finally, that as of this morning it appears that every factual assertion in the article "Mike Godwin" seems to be correct. MikeGodwin 15:29, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

You can sidestep any concerns on either end of this discussion by simply suggesting changes on the talk page. Allowing other editors to add or remove info providing it's conflict free by just nudging the talk page is perfectly fine. Misplaced Pages isn't a race; while this may be a day slow or whatever it'll be the most respective to conflict of interest guidelines and neutral point-of-view policy. JoeSmack 18:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Congrats on your new position at the WMF. JoeSmack 18:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the congrats, JoeSmack. And, yes, I'm aware that it's possible to nudge editors into making changes (or undoing bad changes, etc.). Been a Wikipedian for years now, as I've said. MikeGodwin 12:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Your law was proven

On Jimbo's talk page. Just thought you'd like to know. --Hemlock Martinis 04:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer, Hemlock. MikeGodwin 14:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Nomination for Adminship

Hi, now that you've become WMF's councel, I've noticed that you don't have admin status here at Misplaced Pages. Before you can be nominated, I'm supposed to first ask whether or not you'd accept my nomination. --w 22:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I'd accept. MikeGodwin 01:28, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for accepting, but for the nomination to be completed, there are a few questions that all nominees must answer related to how the admin tools will be used. Once that's finished, then the nom will appear on the main requests page --w 04:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Your user page

...reads like a resume. :) It's impressive but maybe it would benefit from some links? in particular to the EFF, to Godwin's Law, to DRM and a bunch more. Ya, it's a wiki but I'm a bit loath to edit other people's user pages since mine is locked down to prevent randoms from editing it. ++Lar: t/c 19:25, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll update it when I have some spare time, which isn't just this minute, Lar. Not that I'm disagreeing with you. MikeGodwin 21:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I boldly spruced it up. I hope you like it. ←Ben 08:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations

I also stated this on what I thought was your user talk page, but was your article talk page. Someday, when I get to be notable like you, I want my own article, too. :-) Best wishes, counsellor. Bearian 23:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Commerical Product Images

Could you please review this discussion on Commons, and if appropriate, clarify some of the questions being asked there? Commons has a large number of images of products which are primarily an image of just the product. I can supply an example image if you need one, many have been deleted but there is an open question about whether they should or should not be and if policy needs to be clarified. Thanks! ++Lar: t/c 13:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Please consider removing your RfA

Mike, please consider removing your RfA and having the foundation direct that you get the administrator bit if you need it for your work. We have already had a major problem where User:Danny requested adminship, there was huge opposition and the RfA did not reach consensus, but he was promoted anyway. If your RfA stands and similarly does not reach consensus, I will argue against promotion. Nothing personal, but RfAs like this can severely disrupt the process. -- Cecropia 15:50, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Just adding my own opinion, which has to do with what you want to gain through the RfA (Welcome to Misplaced Pages BTW). Simply if you wish to have a sysop bit for you legal position with the foundation, just ask them, and you almost certainly will receive it. This seems to be your intention based on your answer to question 1, so I suggest you do as Cecropia says. However, if you wish to be a full sysop, and perform all the admin duties such as closing AfDs, speedy deleting pages, protecting pages, blocking vandals, ect, then you should request adminship through RfA. Hope this helps you out, Prodego 21:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

There's no question in my mind that I could obtain admin privileges as an employee of Wikimedia Foundation, and indeed I've been assured of this already independently. But it seemed worthwhile to go through the experience of putting my name in the hopper for this in a public way, and I expect to learn from the process. MikeGodwin 23:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Florence has granted you the sysop permissions on meta. You're now an administrator here. :-) --Deskana (banana) 23:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyone know if he got oversight? Based on descriptions of WP:OFFICE work, he'll need that too. ←Ben 08:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations!

I see I get to be the first to shake your mop wielding hand. Here is what KillerChihuahua told me when I got mine:

Since you're a lawyer, I better mention that he released it under the GFDL, so I think I'm covered. Best of luck to you, and may you have at least one day when you never hear anything about short men with small moustaches. --AnonEMouse 00:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks like great advice to me! MikeGodwin 01:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Body of Authority

Since you are now giving us copyright law guidance in your official capacity, we need to keep track of it. So there's a new page here. Hopefully, this will save you from having to answer the same question 1000 times, and it will allow us to be more consistent in applying the "precedent" promulgated. Please edit or modify the contents of the page as necessary to keep us all on track. Thanks and thanks for your guidance! -- But|seriously|folks  00:41, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I've given this a little thought, and I think that for now at least I don't want to turn my User Talk page into a general advice page. There's a good reason for this -- an answer that may be appropriate for one case may *seem* appropriate for another but may be distinguishable. I'd rather not risk having my User Talk page be used to give seemingly good but actually inaccurate advice, even accidentally. MikeGodwin 04:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Pictures of coins

Today most auction houses seems to make coin pictures with flatbed scanners which are producing according German law and Bridgeman vs. Corel no copyrightable pictures. Could you please review your consilium concerning coins. Respectfully --Historiograf 03:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This might be of interest, saying unnamed "top copyright lawyers in the USA" disagree with your opinion. ←Ben 05:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use images on the main page from today's featured article

I think Misplaced Pages talk:Non-free content criteria exemptions#TFA.2FMain Page exemption.2C revisited sorely needs your input. ←Ben 06:18, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Just popping by.

Hi Mike, I'm one of the handful of intellectual property lawyers who can be found roaming the metaphorical halls of the project (lately I've been spending most of my time in the relative calm of Wiktionary). In any event, I thought I'd introduce myself, as I'm one of those folks who occasionally gets sucked into the legal debates that tend to arise. Lucky me, I'm a Florida lawyer too, so people who assume liability lies with the servers tap me for opinions (in fact a large portion of my real-world practice is defamation and right of publicity). I had a cordial interaction with Brad Patrick, and hope to have the same with you. Cheers! bd2412 T 23:37, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Time for the WP's official copyright lawyer to weigh in

An administrator is deleting images he uploaded under the GFDL because he doesn't want them moved to commons. This is causing a bit of a hoohah on the Administrator's noticeboard/incidents here: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#BetacommandBot and commons

The admin states that he can revoke the license whenever he feels like, and makes a fairly involved legal argument here: User talk:Neil#Revocation of GFDL on images I have uploaded

This is a bit too much for mice without a law degree, but seems to fall squarely within your court. --AnonEMouse 18:31, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

For clarification, not whenever I feel like, only if no substantive or transformative derivative works have been produced based on the original contribution. Neil ム 19:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Would an article that used an image constitute a substantive derivative work even if the original image hadn't been altered? 66.92.70.157 19:22, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I would say that the image was the element being used to substantively amend the article, and not the other way around. The image itself remains unaltered. Neil ム 19:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I have explained that waiving copyright with a release such as the GFDL does not have to be a contract to effectively prevent future enforcement of the copyright on Neil's talk page. ←Ben 20:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you read the entire statement, Ben. As GFDL is a licence, if no amendments or substantive changes have been carried out upon, or derivated content created from, the original submission, then by giving notice to the licencee, the original contributor can, technically, revoke the previously-applied licence from any unaltered contributions they wish. This argument becomes invalid as soon as any alterations take place, though, as the original contributor is then not the sole attributable owner of the content. Neil ム 20:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I am no lawyer, but the phrase "world-wide, royalty-free license, unlimited in duration" seems to mean that the license lasts forever. I don't see a provision for revoking the license, and I think that a license is like a contract in that unless you make a provision for canceling it, it is binding. But, as I said, I am not a lawyer, I look forward to Mike's interpretation. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 21:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I've done some research on this. Under British law, a license is revocable at any time upon serving notice in writing (I'm not sure what that would entail.) Misplaced Pages's servers are governed by US law, which allows for license revocation "during a period of five years beginning at the end of thirty-five years from the date of execution of the grant" 17 USC 203(a)(3). ←Ben 00:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

That's for copyright law, not GFDL licencing. Neil ム 22:25, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

First Neil, it says right at the top it says it deals with "license of copyright", secondly, a license is a set of terms regarding a copyright. GFDL information is copyrighted with specific terms. So the two are really the same thing. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 15:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Related to all this, could you please comment here? It seems important. Cheers, WilyD 14:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I suppose we will just have to use our layman's interpretation of the license pending some sort of response. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 15:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi. As WP's unofficial copyright lawyer, yes there is a difference between a license and a copyright. Say I own a car, but I sign a contract which gives you permission to drive it around as you wish. The contract does not divest my ownership of the car, it merely gives you rights to it. If I give or sell ownership of the car to someone else, what they get is a car in which you still have usage rights (this actually happens with property all the time, see Easement). Uploading an image on Misplaced Pages gives Misplaced Pages (and all downstream users of Misplaced Pages) that right to use the image, and is an irrevocable gift of that right. It does not divest the copyright owner of ownership of the copyright, but does bar them from taking action against Misplaced Pages's use of the image. Once that upload button has been hit, the uploader has no more right to delete the image than any Wikipedian has to delete any image. Cheers! bd2412 T 18:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

(general comment) I know that the specific situation of deleting self-contributed photos initially brought this conversation about, however, I think that when we discuss whether individual actions are acceptable or not, we should be talking in terms of the policies and guidelines of this site (no one has to be a lawyer to do this) rather than in terms of legalities (copyrights and licenses -which expertise as a lawyer is needed). That is to say the guidelines and policies (G&P) should be well within copyright laws and the time to discuss the law is when changes to the G&P are considered, not when individual actions are taken.
A case in point is our Fair Use policy, we don't have to discuss/know whether a photo meets Fair Use or copyright laws (pick a country), our policy is more restrictive, such that if our policy requirements are met (things any editor can discuss) an included image will automatically meet most, if not all, Fair Use laws anywhere (which lawyers can discuss). If current policy doesn't already address this image deletion situation, we should fix the policy, and not necessarily address the legality of the actions taken. Just my 2 cents. R. Baley 19:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Group logos in Iraqi insurgency

User:Videmus Omnia and User:Angr have removed Iraqi insurgent group logos here from the Iraqi insurgency article, claiming that we are not allowed ever to use non-free content in galleries. I disagree, pointing out that the instructions at WP:NONFREE#Examples of unacceptable use says that non-free image use in galleries is not allowed because it "normally fails the test for significance (criterion #8)."

The criterion in question states, "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding. Non-free media files are not used if they can be replaced by text that serves a similar function."

I claim that including the gallery would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic because they allow readers to identify an insurgent group from its logo, a function that you would expect a comprehensive reference on the topic to serve. Omitting the images removes that very useful ability from the article, impacting readers' understanding, and there's no way to do it with text. As {{logo}} states, use of non-free logos for identification is explicitly permitted under the current policy.

There is a dispute about this at Misplaced Pages:Fair use review#Iraqi insurgency and Talk:Iraqi insurgency#Logo section. As I know you don't want to use your talk page for answering such questions, would you please reply at Talk:Iraqi insurgency#Logo section? Thank you for your help. ←Ben 14:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

GFDL and BLP

We need legal input regarding the GFDL and how it interacts with the English Misplaced Pages's BLP policy. Of particular concern is largescale history deletion such as that at http://en.wikipedia.org/Justin_Berry where the history now shows the first edit being Phil Sandifer even though the vast majority of content was not written by him. There is an ongoing discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons#Selective_deletions_and_the_GFDL . The consensus seems to be that legal advice is necessary. JoshuaZ 20:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Medical advice guideline

An editor has raised a concern about Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/guidelines/Medical advice; see the talk page for details. It's a guideline that describes the types of medical questions that we avoid answering on the Reference Desks and a primer on how to recognize that a question seeks medical advice.

Your professional opinion would be appreciated. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Copyright on highway shields

I have created Misplaced Pages:Copyright on highway shields as a page to discuss and determine the copyright status of logos for highways, mainly toll roads. I would especially appreciate your input on the threshold of originality. Thank you. --NE2 03:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Sudden realization

I just noticed you are the originator of Godwin's Law. Thanks for that one; you've no idea how many hours of entertainment I've had watching individuals (here and elsewhere on the internet) prove your adage correct.--Isotope23 18:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Tracking down copyright assignment of logos

Mike, we at English Wikiquote have been trying to settle some outstanding issues with Wikiquote-related logos, especially commons:Image:Ncwikiquote2trans.png, our official logo, created years ago by q:en:User:Neolux. The problem is that this (and other) logos have apparently inadequate licensing information by current standards (i.e., the ones we're using to justify actively deleting massive numbers of images on Misplaced Pages), and further do not make clear how the Wikimedia Foundation has the right to hold a copyright on them, as there is no clear statement of the assignment of rights to the Foundation from the creators. I am trying to eliminate the apparent hypocrisy in this situation.

Neolux, who is no longer active on Wikiquote, just passed word to me that he had assigned the rights to his logo to WMF, and that Brad Patrick and Jimmy Wales know about this. (I assume you would be holding this information now.) I would like to translate that into something we can cite on the image description page, so that the chain of copyright licensing is public and unambiguous. Could you point me in the right direction? Do you have some record that I can cite (e.g., "copyright assigned to WMF in private correspondence dated DD MMMM YYYY, on file ", or similar)? Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:01, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I wish I could give you a better answer than this, but I am taking action generally to rationalize and inventory our logos and trademarks, and that's going to take a while. Yours is not the only question about ownership of logos. MikeGodwin 11:01, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL AND HONEST WITH THE USERS OF WIKIPÉDIA

PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL AND HONEST WITH THE USERS OF WIKIPÉDIA

Dear Sirs,

Once again…

A group of users (friends) of Portuguese Wikipédia brings more illiberal policies regarding an non free Misplaced Pages without a preoccupation with a environmental and social education.

This group of users (always the same) and some administrators propose and vote systematically to erase some pages with a total absence of knowledge about the subject, some of the articles with a high importance to the community. They have a chain of contacts to promote their vote and their contacts (friends) vote without common sense, reasoning, good judgment, brains or sagacity; They vote against the person and not against the article.

Less obvious for know, but perhaps as consequential over the long term, is a less participation of some users who TRY CONTRIBUTE to this projects with articles.

Because of this behavior, I decide do not agree with their conduct and I write my point of view in there discussion pages.

I have been block for suspicion of being a sock puppet after a check user. I know I am not a sock puppet, so is impossible the check user be positive.

Several of times, I and other users asked for a check user to my account to dissipate any suspicion about the issue (because they accuse-me to be a sock puppet). But our request was always reject for these (group) users.

However, know, the “group of users” decided to make a “check user”. It is strange and uncommon, because 2 days ago they rejected my check user proposal.

In the past, they admit in their discussion pages, they make a me check user and the check user was inconclusive (this in half-words). Know the result is positive? Is impossible. I know that. I am not a “sock puppet”.

All I ask to Wikimedia foundation is that an administrator check the merits of the block and to verify the check user. Send me the results by email, because is impossible this result.

I think these groups (with administrators) are trying making a fraud to eliminate my participation.

Put yourself in my shoes and imagine the frustration.

– The other user

– Me

– The checkuser rejected by “the group of users”

– The same checkuser approved by “the group of users”.

Sincerely,

Rui Resende —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.157.79.92 (talk) 01:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Are U.S. state and local governments' public records protected?

Misplaced Pages talk:Public domain#Public records has another fascinating legal dispute comprised of non-lawyer editors trying to make sense of conflicting legal authorities. Please help! ←Ben 18:11, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Your law...

... was proven again: (it's in Portuguese, but you can take a look at the last paragraph and get the point). Regards, PatríciaR 09:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

..Did anyone invoked this law against You? (calling you Nazi) SYSS Mouse 02:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

• Your law was used at DRV yesterday. It is very amazing to see it work. Would you consider adding a user subpage so we can add examples of its use in Misplaced Pages? -- Jreferee T/C 03:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
  • That would be... silly? :-) Carcharoth 03:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Procedure for handling vandal edits containing terroristic threats

Good morning, Mr. Godwin. Based on a recent incident where a violent threat was made in a vandal edit to the Ewing High School (New Jersey) article, there has been some discussion as to whether there should be guidelines to coordinate Misplaced Pages volunteer's efforts in response to such incidents. You can find relevant discussions at WP:ANI#Terroristic threat made in school article and WP:VPP#Template for ANI emergencies.
My opinion is that our guidance on this should come from the Foundation, perhaps from you personally as its General Counsel. I realize numerous such empty threats must occur from time to time at the various projects, and thus our liability in this regard is extremely minimal, but the consequences of ignoring such a threat that ultimately comes to fruition could be quite severe. If you have the time to give an opinion, here or at WP:WPP, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time, Satori Son 13:20, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Cat Inc Trademarks

It looks like you removed the entire Infobox, rather than just the trademarked image. Is there any reason I can't restore the rest of it, including the names of the chairman, the revenue data, etc? Thanks, <eleland/talkedits> 19:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to restore the Infobox. MikeGodwin 19:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

E-mail

Mike, I've sent you an e-mail regarding Misplaced Pages. Nothing legal, I hope, just bureaucratic. --Calton | Talk 06:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

DC meetup #3

Interested in meeting-up with a bunch of your wiki-friends? Please take a quick look at Misplaced Pages:Meetup/DC 3 and give your input about the next meetup. Thank you.
This automated notice was delivered to you because you are on the Misplaced Pages:Meetup/DC/Invite. BrownBot 01:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Removals of talk sections

I noticed you removed "by request" a bunch of sections of discussions that Geoeg and I were involved in. As long as you're at it, can you go ahead and remove or archive the whole lot? Maybe if we started over we'd do better. Or if you're just removing stuff that seems too controversial or something, how about taking out his rants against me? Dicklyon 01:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Can I just pitch in as an admin who has been watching the Geoeg situation? He has taken your removal as permission to remove many other discussions of his behaviour, including an arbitration request which has not yet been rejected by the Arbitrators or removed by the clerks. I think such removals should best be done by them rather than by the user whose behaviour is under examination. Sam Blacketer 14:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

He has also removed the COI notice about him, citing Mikegodwin approval. And laughed at us about it. Dicklyon 15:02, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Mike please can you confirm whether you authorised the blanking of sections of the RFA page and archives from admin noticeboards? This seems pretty radical and I would like to understand the reasoning as this appears to be a new policy. Its a long standing convention that you don't remove comments from other users and I'm minded to block Geoeg for this if it hasn't been authorised. Spartaz 19:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Agree with Spartaz. While I could imagine reasons for removing some of the material you removed, some clarification here would be greatly appreciated. Best, --Bfigura 23:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I slept on this but I simply can't see how your agreeing to remove some talk pages can be extended to Geoeg claiming your approval for the removal of a RFAR by the subject of the request. This user has been in the last chance saloon for some time and the disruption that they bring is no longer justified by their very limited contributions. I have therefore blocked them indefinitely. Of course, if I have misinterpreted your intent, you are welcome to reverse me. Spartaz 09:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Folks, I hope you will be patient with me for not always being able to explain every detail of a particular editorial choice arising out of a dispute. I'm trying not to fuel the fires, but I can't always tell you why a particular choice was made, for legal reasons. And, yes, I know that my edits don't always solve the particular problem, but I hope they sometimes reduce the problems. MikeGodwin 04:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Logos fair use question

Over at Misplaced Pages talk:Non-free content#Logo inclusion in football club season infoboxes there's a Misplaced Pages editorship debate over whether such use of logos is fair use or not (and, though I don't think it was raised in such terms, there's also the trademark issue; logos are legal chimeras, after all). I've rather WP:BOLDly tagged that entire discussion with {{Stuck}}, because I do not believe it can be resolved other than via WP:OFFICE, i.e. you. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 13:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Stanton, it seems clear to me that fair use doctrine applies in these cases, but sometimes we pull logos anyway because we have to pick our battles. I'm not the only WP:OFFICE person, as I think you know -- if this is turning into a problem, send me e-mail. MikeGodwin 05:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Lubbers and BLP Block

Hi Mike: I have written an explanation on the Lubbers Disc page. --Joel Mc 17:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I have added material and asked what's happening? on Lubbers discussion page.--Joel Mc (talk) 16:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

user page

Hiya Mike!

Someone mentioned the user page way above, in July. Is it possible to cut your user page back from a resume, to a regular user page, maybe refocusing it on your activities for the foundation and on the wiki, and other important information a user here looking up your page might want to know about your role here? Jimmy Wales' page is a good example of how this can be done!

Many thanks, and let me know if anything needs discussing or you need a hand - I'm sure many people will be glad to help!

Best,

FT2 01:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, FT2. I think I'm okay with my User page as it is. My role as general counsel is already mentioned in the Misplaced Pages entry about me, and on the Wikimedia.org site. Like other users, I am comfortable being nonstandard in how I present myself on my User page. MikeGodwin (talk) 15:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

"expressed and justified claim"

Requiring an expressed and justified claim for fair use contributes to the erosion of fair use. I thought, I was sure in fact, that you of all people would be for strong fair use, free from any mystic incantations necessary to use it. Sigh! 68.40.34.93 (talk) 17:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I'm for strong fair use, free from any mystic incantations to use it. But I'm probably missing your point here. MikeGodwin (talk) 17:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess that refers to this statement by Cary Bass that you said we either need permission or an "expressed" fair use justification to use non-free content. That is currently the norm here on Misplaced Pages; it predates your statement, has always been controversial, and even though it's technically a "guideline," it is treated as the strictest policy and is the only guideline enforced by bots. Misplaced Pages is so big now that this requirement is having an impact in the real world: people look at Misplaced Pages and figure what we are doing is the right thing, and it isn't. It impacts expectations of rights holders who otherwise wouldn't bother fair-users with pressure and litigation. If you would mention at WT:NFC that in fact a written justification is not actually needed for fair use, please, it would do a world of good. MilesAgain (talk) 19:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Releasing IP addresses of registered users: the Video Professor incident

This issue was discussed at User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 31#Misplaced Pages surrendering users' info without a fight. It was stated there that it was not an appropriate discussion forum for the topic of how hard the Foundation should and did fight to prevent revealing the IP addresses of registered users to parties who had been criticized in a Misplaced Pages article and who subpoenaed the user information. I have started a discussion at the Village Pump policy page at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)# Releasing IP addresses of registered users: the Video Professor incident. Two other websites successfully avoided releasing the subpoenaed information. As legal counsel for Misplaced Pages, the reported non-response to the initial subponea and the later release to the aggrieved party of the IP address of an editor seem to be related to your role. Your comments are welcome. Thanks. Edison (talk) 05:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I've responded to this query on Village Pump. MikeGodwin (talk) 09:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Is Wikia Annex a conflict of interest?

Would you please take some time to read this thread and respond at the Village Pump discussion that is referenced on Jimbo's talk page? Several of us have the opinion that Wikia Annex has crossed a line that overtly solicits content and labor from the Misplaced Pages community that directly benefits the shareholders of Wikia, several of whom are directing the Wikimedia Foundation in key ways. - John Russ Finley (talk) 17:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Licensing images as GFDL 1.2only

Hi Mike,

at the moment, there's a controversy over at the German Misplaced Pages about users who license their images as GFDL version 1.2 only (as opposed to the standard GFDL "Version 1.2 or any later version"). Some argue, that the "or any later version" part may not be valid according to German laws because nobody knows how the license text will change in future versions. But there are already plans to ask a German lawyer to look into that, so that's not really the issue I want to talk about.

In the past, some users (who uploaded a huge amount of good pictures) chose to license their works as GFDL because such images can be used in Misplaced Pages, but are rather difficult (almost impossible) to use in magazines, on posters, etc.. due to requirements such as the need to print the whole license text. However after the recent discussion concerning future versions of the license that would make it compatible to a CC license, it seems those users panicked a bit - as this would mean that their images become much easier to use commercially. So they chose to create a license template that only includes the GFDL version 1.2 (same as {{GFDL 1.2}}), to prevent most commercial usage of their images in the future.

Other users (including myself) think that using such a license to prevent the easy use of free Misplaced Pages content by others (or trying to make it as difficult as possible) is not in line with one of the main ideas of Misplaced Pages - creating free contents for everybody to use. Additionally, someone pointed out that the GFDL license text only mentions two licensing options: a) GFDL Version x "or any later version" and b) "GFDL" without a version number.

So, do you or the Foundation have any opinion about such a license template? --Kam Solusar (talk) 03:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I realize this is a controversial subject for many, and I don't want to wade into the minutiae of that debate here. I will say that there are ongoing efforts among FSF, Creative Commons, and the Foundation to try to harmonize licensing conventions in ways that both maximize the usability and maintain the propagation of free licensing of content. The fact that these three stakeholders are involved in this discussion should suggest that lots of points of view are being represented, and you also may be sure that any proposed harmonization will be submitted to the affected communities for discussion as well. Human beings being what they are, it is unlikely that any outcome will escape criticism, but I'm generally pretty hopeful about this effort. MikeGodwin (talk) 21:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

subst: uw-ad1

I realize you're the legal counsel here - however - your resume on the userpage is not in keeping with policy. WP:NOT#WEBSPACE:
Personal web pages. Wikipedians have their own user pages, but they may be used only to present information relevant to working on the encyclopedia. If you are looking to make a personal webpage or blog or to post your resume', please make use of one of the many free providers on the Internet or any hosting included with your Internet account. The focus of user pages should not be social networking, but rather providing a foundation for effective collaboration
Don't worry - I won't mess with it - just a heads up KoshVorlon ".. We are ALL Kosh..." 16:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Mike's resume is "information relevant to working on the encyclopedia" because it shows that he works for the Foundation. MilesAgain (talk) 16:34, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

You might want to give WP:UP a read through--the user space is designed to give other editors a bit of information about who they're dealing with, and since Mike is the legal counsel of the Foundation (and will thus be called upon for legal matters), his resume is certainly in line with this. I have some additional comments and questions, but I'll post them on your talk page rather than clutter up Mike's. --jonny-mt 01:49, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

You've got to be kidding me. Did you guys read WP:NOT#WEBSPACE. The resume is not allowed and

there are other ways to show he's general counsel over here, that keep with the rules of Misplaced Pages. (Note - This isn't intented to have a nasty tone - rather an incredulous one! ). The friendly alien formerly known as Kosh The Vorlon, from the Vorlon home world, in the Tarus constellation, now currently residing beyond the rim, with Capt. Sheridan! —Preceding comment was added at 01:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't be silly. It's entirely appropriate. --jpgordon 02:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:NOT#WEBSPACE notes that "The focus of user pages should not be social networking, but rather providing a foundation for effective collaboration" (emphasis in the original), a sentiment reflected in WP:UP. A number of active users ("active" being the key word) have CVs or resume-like information on their personal pages, but they are allowed by the community insofar as this information is used to highlight their areas of knowledge and expertise, which in turn is very helpful when considering their work on the project. If you need more verification that this is indeed the current consensus, I encourage you to take a look at Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:KeyStroke/Subpage 1 for an example of this consensus in action. You are tilting at windmills here, and so rather than get more worked up I suggest you step back and consider the possibility that our arguments are sound. --jonny-mt 03:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Feedback

As I described in the mail I sent you, we would like your feedback at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#BusinessWeek's Terms of Use. Thanks in advance. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 04:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I apologise in advance but regarding coverage of fictional universes

This is regarding the Seinfeld and Twin Peaks cases mentioned here . I really hate to ask, and I'm trying to find a way to frame this which doesn't mean you have to give legal advice or answer in a way that could be misinterpreted. Does the community need to look at the way it covers fictional universes, like how much detail it goes into etc. If you can't answer, that's fair enough. Actually it's probably best if you don't, thinking about it, because it might well be misinterpreted. Hmm. Should the community limit its coverage in light of the above, is that a better way of phrasing it? Or should the community discuss limiting its coverage in light of the above? Or, if we did discuss it are their things to bear in mind? Damn, this is hard. I'll leave it there. Like I say, if you can't answer that is fair enough, and I'm sorry to have troubled you, it is just that a number of people have pointed me here to the point that I probably have to come here, if you see what I mean. Hiding T 12:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

From a legal standpoint, I see no reason for contributors to worry about coverage of fictional universes, so long as relevant provisions of copyright law, trademark law, etc., are followed. MikeGodwin (talk) 21:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Hiding T 11:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

DC Meetup on May 17th

Your help is needed in planning Misplaced Pages:Meetup/DC 4! Any comments or suggestions you have are greatly appreciated. The Placebo Effect (talk) 19:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

User:WebHamster

It needs to be brought to your attention that User:WebHamster is using his userpage to host what appears to be child pornography. Despite admins removing the pictures he seems determined to edit war them back in as per here, here, and here. His original image was removed via this AN/I discussion and he has since updated his page with yet another child porn image, the one which is now currently being hosted by wikipedia. Please note that like the previous picture, the current image being hosted has no information declaring that the subject is over 18 years of age, and is found in no other part of the encyclopedia. Given that this user is immune to admin decisions or removals, and in his defense uses comments like this this this, I believe User:WebHamster must be removed from the project immediately, for the integrity of the encyclopedia. Prester John (talk) 18:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow

You'd make a great attorney general.--Uga Man (talk) UGA MAN FOR PRESIDENT 2008 20:08, 10 March 2008 (UTC)