Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 19:28, 19 April 2008 editKim Bruning (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers20,995 editsm →User pages deletions: grammar, tweak← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:29, 19 April 2008 edit undoKim Bruning (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers20,995 edits →User pages deletions: -unlimited, big words have big consequences :-PNext edit →
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	Jaakobu has the ~~unlimited~~ right to create draft texts in his userspace, unless those pages are clearly extremely disruptive.		Jaakobu has the right to create draft texts in his userspace, unless those pages are clearly extremely disruptive.

	Some people prefer to directly edit wiki pages, some prefer talk page discussion, some prefer to draft in userspace first. If everyone were to enforce their personal preference with admin tools, it would be impossible to edit the wiki altogether. --] (]) 19:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)		Some people prefer to directly edit wiki pages, some prefer talk page discussion, some prefer to draft in userspace first. If everyone were to enforce their personal preference with admin tools, it would be impossible to edit the wiki altogether. --] (]) 19:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

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Jackmantas

This Single-purpose account appears to have been created with the simple aim of blanking the article Eric Greif. After failed attempts at blanking the article, the user then began a dozen slashing edits in bad faith, without checking references or using the talk page for discussion with other editors. As soon as the account was created, the first move was a blanking attempt. Thanks. A Sniper ==(talk) 11:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

It looks he decided to move to Chuck Schuldiner, basically to revert and argue your edits there. Notifying him of this thread. Also, doesn't look like anything at Greif is sourced at all. Given that it's a WP:BLP concern, I think that it needs to slashed and rebuilt. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:04, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Besides trolling around other articles I've edited, the edits have now slid into innuendo, attacks, inferences and general bad faith. No longer is it about editing - pleasee see . This is extremely frustrating. A Sniper (talk) 07:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know too much about it, but it would seem there is a huge problem with the user. Needs to be warned or something. They are going on some sor tof crusade trying to mess up certain pages. Blizzard Beast 00:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I left a {{npa}} message. -- Agathoclea (talk) 07:34, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It's very important here to keep separate the issues of conduct and content: Jackmantas's breaches of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA are unacceptable, but that doesn't invalidate the content issues raised, which others can take up in a more neutral manner. Other context:

1) see WP:COIN#Eric Greif: it appears A Sniper has a strong conflict of interest, so this can hardly be viewed as a disinterested report.

2) While the civility is a problem (on both sides), the actual edits to articlespace by Jackmantas have mostly been endorsed by uninvolved editors. The material on Eric Greif had a long-standing absence of sourcing that needed dealing with. Removing unsourced material is not "messing up pages". Gordonofcartoon (talk) 11:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if this helps since this thread is active, but I was petitioned to do something about Jackmantas about 10 hours ago, citing a lack of admin involvement. It is possible that this was done by Sniper, considering this modification. Since I have never been involved with this issue, I wonder if other admins were contacted in this manner. Given the location of my user name within the alphabet, I am prone to the occasional blanket plea for help by those who start from the very beginning of the admin list. 52 Pickup (deal) 15:29, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The issue with Jackmantas no longer is specifically linked to the Greif page, which culminated in a consensus of editors endorsing a complete re-build from scratch, with citations used (and was done by an admin). What it has come down to is the inflammatory personal attacks that continue to be posted at my talk page, on the user's talk page, and on article talk pages. It is the single-purpose account, trolling and personal attack aspects that leave me feeling that this continues to be an OTT problem. Making valid edits is one thing - writing attacks over & over again is another. A quick peak at the user's contributions demonstrates more than just good faith article editing. If these attacks stopped, I would easily and certainly withdraw the item from the Noticeboard. BTW: I have ceased all direct responses to the user as well as they only made the situation worse. Best, A Sniper (talk) 19:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

@52 I actually saw the post on your page and assuming you were on wikibreak took a closer look which led me past the COI page to this item, so I don't think there was a shotgun approach in contacting admins. Looking at the issue I found that the COI situtation was dealt with by a number of editors, but the personal attack situation was not. Hence me leaving the template. @Sniper - walking away / ignoring baiting attacks is the best thing you can do and I am glad you saw that. Agathoclea (talk) 20:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I'm on a semi-break at the moment (or rather, I'm way too busy to do much here right now), so I did not have the time to examine the situation in any detail. I just wanted to make sure that there was no canvassing. 52 Pickup (deal) 21:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Just thought since this whole thing is a complaint about me, I should come on here and tell my side of the story. When I originally saw the Greif page, I saw a lot of problems. We all know what they are, so I won't beat a dead horse as far as that goes. So, seeing all those problems, I decided it was time to become a Misplaced Pages editor and I opened and account and went to work. Not knowing any better as a newcomer, when I saw absolutely no sources, I thought the page should just be blanked and started from scratch. When that got reverted by a bot, I guess I got a little playful and made a joke entry, kind of just to see what happened. I now know that this was not the right thing to do and I apologize to the entire Misplaced Pages community for my conduct. Well it got reverted too, but it was about this time that I first encountered A Sniper. He immediately began with the rude and condescending comments in the edit box and calling me "singleuser account Jackmantas." I started to really concentrate on doing some responsible editing at this point, but he just would not let up. He also began to accuse me of being a sock puppet acccount of username: Dissolve, which is absolutely untrue. He was basically doing what I now know to be "biting the newcomer." Well I can tell you this only strengthened my resolve and an edit war began. If he had of been polite to me in the beginning, I'm sure things would have been different. Not making excuses, just stating a fact. I'm a newcomer, he has been on here a long time, he should know better. If anything this is a perfect example of why you don't bite a newcomer. Anyway, I soon discovered that A Sniper was in fact Mr. Grief himself and that also irked me somewhat. The more he called me "single-user account" and accused me of vandalism, sockpuppetry, malicious editing, the more I just wanted to focus on his page. Anyway, to make a long story short, I began making edits over on the Chuck Schuldiner page where I also saw a lot of problems and he tried to ridicule me one too many times over an understandable mix up and I basically just let him have it. He bit me and bit me and bit me and I decided to bite back with a personal attack. To wrap this up, I just think it is rather ridiculous for Mr. Greif AKA, A Sniper to come on here and complain about me, when he was just as guilty of the things he is accusing me of as I was. He is also a trusted member of the Anti-Vandalism Squad and I feel like he abused his position to further his agenda and he should know better. I guess at this point I am supposed to create links to illustrate all of this, but I don't know how to do that very well yet and am kind of tired and I have to work early in the morning. Anyone who wants to check the history of either the Greif page or the Chuck Schuldiner page or my talk page or his talk page will see all of this as plain as day. And while you are at it, check his history and you will see how he has been rude and condescending to people again and again. Even people that were totally polite and helpful to him. If he didn't like the way they were trying to edit a page that he had anything to do with, he would bite their head off. I guess I took offense to this and thought I would teach this guy a lesson. I guess I just have a pet-peeve about people who I see as arrogant and condescending. Anyway, I was sent a very polite NPA notice by a gentleman by the user name of Agothoclea. I really appreciated the friendly, welcoming tone of his notice ( Something I never got from Mr. Greif) and I took his words to heart and anyone who would care to look can see that I have made no further personal attacks. As far as I am concerned I will do my best to maintain my conduct in the future in a way that is in full compliance with Misplaced Pages Policies. Again, I apologize to the entire Misplaced Pages community for my conduct and look forward to doing whatever I can to be of service to Misplaced Pages in the future. Thank you for your time. Jackmantas (talk) 03:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Betacommand 2

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The remedies decided by the Arbitration Committee, viewable here, instruct Betacommand with regards to the operation of BetacommandBot, including placement of notifications and civility in replying to concerns raised about its operation. Betacommand is urged to be significantly more responsive to good-faith questions from users whose images he tags and either to respond directly to such questions, and also to develop an "opt-out" list for BetacommandBot without imposing conditions on its use.

All editors are advised that periodic review of images and other media to ensure their compliance with the non-free content criteria may be necessary for policy, ethical, and sometimes legal reasons, and are invited to participate in policy discussions concerning this and related areas. Editors are cautioned not to be abusive toward or make personal attacks against participants, including bot operators, engaged in this work. The community is also urged to re-examine our policies and practices for reviewing, tagging, and where necessary deleting images in light of experience gained since the policies and practices were previously developed, including the disputes underlying this case. The Committee listed five specific points in the specific remedy that they believe any review should attempt to cover.

The Committee expects that the disputes and disruption underlying this case will cease as a result of this decision. In the event of non-compliance or a continued pattern of disputes, further review by the Committee may be sought after a reasonable time. In such a review, the Committee may impose appropriate sanctions including but not limited to the revocation of any user's privilege to use automated tools such as bots and scripts, revocation of other privileges, topic bans, civility restrictions, or any other remedies needed to end the disruption. However, please note that nothing in this paragraph restricts the authority of administrators to take appropriate action to deal with any disruptive incidents that may occur.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Daniel (talk) 12:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Finally. And thankfully, some of the findings weren't about Beta, as there is an underlying good faith problem on all sides. Sceptre 12:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

My apologies for the length of this so-called "summary" — pulling bits out of five of the longest unique remedies I've ever seen, while still maintaining the original intention as well as balance between the remedies (ie. not to include more about one "side" than another) didn't lend itself to having a short summary. Daniel (talk) 12:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

"and either to respond directly to such questions..." or what? :D Happy‑melon 13:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

All the remedies are useless

Why urge Betacommand to change his conduct and never say what ArbCom will do to punish him if he never changes his conduct? --Kaypoh (talk) 02:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you give him a chance? Don't presume that all remedies are useless; show some good faith. Complaining after the matter is closed isn't going to improve the situation. Seraphim♥ 08:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Surely you realise that any remedy other than desysopping Betacommand, banning him, banning his bot, undeleting all the disputed images and changing foundation policy to allow unlimited use of unfree images is useless? Tchah! Oh, was that a bit sarcastic? Guy (Help!) 11:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

lol nice work decorating this amazingly undramatic thread with your kneejerk blanket defense. is he seriously still a sysop btw? last i heard he was using his bot to spam fifty or sixty msgs on the talk page of a user he didn't like, but i think he'd already been dysopped some time before. Obviously an injustice. 86.44.28.245 (talk) 22:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No, he was desysopped. I just want the remedies to have enforcement. The remedies must say how ArbCom will punish him if he does not listen to the instructed remedies. --Kaypoh (talk) 06:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Missing discussion

One of the remedies is that we're supposed to have a community-wide discussion about non-free image tagging and bots. Where will this discussion be held? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 16:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey, why not come over to Misplaced Pages talk:Non-free content criteria compliance? :-) Carcharoth (talk) 23:13, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Immediate incivility from Betacommand following arbcom case 2

He's lasted 4 days after the judgement before telling someone to shut up at a bot approval request . I raised this at AN/AE but it appears not to be actionable, despite the wording of remedy 12.3.1.A, so I am bringing it here. MickMacNee (talk) 17:53, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Flashbacks. And you've lasted 4 days after judgment to resume running around posting about Betacommand again. Funny how that worked out. Lara❤Love 20:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think a block or other escalation is necessary for that comment - its ill-tempered, and Betacommand is aware that folks are still watching his every comment. I'd advise Betacommand to be more careful, for his own good, and let it go at that. Avruch 21:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

"Betacommand is ... instructed ... To remain civil " - arbcom, 4 days ago. "Shut up" - betacommand to a user, today. MickMacNee (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't nice. But if there were an easy solution, this problem would not have been ongoing for these years. Blocking for this would be excessive. Maybe you could just ignore him? Friday (talk) 21:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Arbcom is not an easy solution. MickMacNee (talk) 22:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Look, speaking honestly here: "shut up" wasn't nice. But it sure doesn't rise to the level of incivility under which I'd take any action against anyone. Let's think about a thicker skin here, okay? I say this as someone who's hardly one of Beta's supporters - in fact, I've spoken out against him several times. It would have to be much worse than that before I'd take action. - Philippe 22:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's the general message I'm getting, no matter what cases, judgements or incidents have gone before, people are content to treat this comment as an isolated case. On that logic, he would firmly have to tell someone to F off before anyone even said 'now now' to him. What was the point of any of this? Nothing has changed, nothing, this entire episode literally is a flashback in Lara's own words to the time before the case, and probably before the one before that. And just as before, it should be pointed out, beta hasn't accepted he did anything wrong with this comment (again). MickMacNee (talk) 22:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Being incivil and not being nice are not the same. If he has to say, "eff off" before someone starts complaining then so be it - but not everyone has a fairy-dandy persona. Thicker skins would help loads here. MickMacNee, you don't seem to realise that WP:AE is for the Enforcement section of Arbitration cases. Otherwise, we could easily bring users who do "drive-by" insults to Betacommand to WP:AE because, after all, there's a remedy in the case that says "Editors... are cautioned not to be abusive toward or make personal attacks against participants, including bot operators, engaged in this work." That's not how things work. x42bn6 Talk Mess 13:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. There were no enforcement terms in the ArbCom decision, so there is no real basis for insisting that someone abide by terms which were never instituted in the first place. And I for one think that there isn't a lot of purpose for anyone to post every instance when someone wasn't nice on the AN. We are not now, and we never have been, wikipedia's censors and politeness police. If and when actionable conduct exists, we should certainly be told, but it probably actually makes it less likely that some people would notice such a complaint if we kept hearing people cry wolf without just cause too regularly. John Carter (talk) 14:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well there seems to be a general fault with the arbcom remedy system then, as it would appear to be pointless, as it would also appear that incidents are treated on a one off basis, despite civility of beta having been quoted in both previous cases. You do not need to be WP's politeness police, but 2 arbcom judgements can be taken as such. Those cases alone demonstrates this is absolutely not a one off incident, and should not be treated as such. Despite the theoretical abuse of an arbcom remedy put up above, by banning any editor being incivil, that would require interpretation of the remedy. In this case it does not, betacommand is named in person in the remedy, see above, I have quoted it. There is no enforcement in the case, well fine, so lets just have somebody state right here in a couple of lines what purpose arbcom remedies actually serve then? And why after two cases, beta is still judged as a first offender, despite many other admins applying the principle of escalation to others. 14:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you've never looked, but Betacommand is not the one and only matter ArbCom has ever faced. In many other instances, ArbCom has made rulings which specifically include potential sanctions. It is not our place to second-guess them, saying in effect "People have complained more than once. The complaints have been reviewed and nothing actionable was seen. As a result, we have to assume the person being complained about was guilty of something." This is, in a word, nonsensical. You are clearly engaging in logically fallacious reasoning to try to further your own opinion. We do not and never have taken accusations of misconduct as proof of misconduct, doing so is little more than witch hunting. John Carter (talk) 15:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Of course I've looked, I had to spend a couple of months there recently. So now, what you're saying is, the statement above of the form 'arbcom instructs betacommand to remain civil', as a remedy, is merely an accusation? MickMacNee (talk) 15:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

MickMacNee, please stop wikistalking and harassing me. β 15:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not doing either of those things. MickMacNee (talk) 15:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Another example anyway, ], a user/users are ~~'talking crap' by merely opposing~~ offering crap ideas in opposition to modified, see below beta's philosophy, the 'majority of users don't know policy/willfully disobey it', admins are scared of enforcing WP:CIVIL with respect to comments by users against him (presumably fueling the idea he is justified in replying incivily). MickMacNee (talk) 15:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Mick , please dont put words in my mouth. I never stated that user/users are 'talking crap' what I said was an idea that was brought up was a bad idea. As for users not knowing/following policy its the truth, there are users who want free and widely used non-free content usage. there where a lot of users who did not know what our non-free content policy was, and there are others who dont like using it. Mick I am going to ask you one more time please dont mis quote me in attempting to make me look bad and harass me. β 15:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

"As for the one bot/one function that is crap." - in reply to the several editors suggesting that idea. MickMacNee (talk) 15:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

As I said I was refering to the idea, not any users. Please stop your harassment and witchhunts. β 15:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I've modified the comment for fear of anyone actually taking these accusations seriously, and to stop the detraction from the original issue. MickMacNee (talk) 16:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It's still not incivil. There are certainly better words to use than "crap" but if he thinks it is a "crap" idea and tells us why then there's nothing wrong. x42bn6 Talk Mess 16:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Considering that no evidence of solid, actionable behavior, other than perhaps WP:DE, WP:POINT, or similar regarding the instigator of this thread, have been pointed out, I suggest that this thread be closed as resolved. John Carter (talk) 15:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Fine close it, but I would have liked your clarification of the idea above that arbcom remedies instructing users are mere 'accusations', I don't think they are, and I don't think it reads as such. MickMacNee (talk) 15:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Please refrain from putting words in the mouths of others, as you have clearly done above. It does nothing but highlight your own misconduct. What I had said was that the instructions from ArbCom contained no actionable terms. I was referring to your own failure to point toward anything actionable as mere "accusations". Now, you seem to be making false accusations, or misrepresentations of the statements of others, against anybody who disagrees with what are clearly your own closely held prejudices. I do think however that your refusal to address the point that the ArbCom ruling contained no actionable terms, and that somehow you are saying that, simply because they cautioned an editor or similar, he was in fact found guilty as charged, which is what I believe your clearly distorted, possibly intentionally, phrasing is trying to imply. I will make no response to questions requesting clarification of statements I did not make, which I believe are themselves possibly only made for the purposes of disruptive editing from an editor with a very clear, if not particularly well substantiated, bias. John Carter (talk) 15:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to clarify why the phrase 'arbcom instructs' is not actionable, and your response appeared to suggest that with no enforcements, the remedy is merely an accusation. If I read your reply wrong, I apologise, but I am at a loss as to what else you were referring to with the We do not and never have taken accusations of misconduct as proof of misconduct statement. MickMacNee (talk) 16:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

MickMacNee, you may be interested in reading WP:AP#Final decision on the difference between a Remedy and Enforcement. x42bn6 Talk Mess 16:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I have before, and I will quote: "Remedies and Enforcements, once the case has closed as described below, may be enforced by intervention by administrators" and "Remedies (binding Decrees on what should be done)". So as I see it, the remedy instructing betacommand to remain civil, is a binding decree, enforceable by administrators. MickMacNee (talk) 16:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

But he's not being incivil (although there's nicer language out there). x42bn6 Talk Mess 21:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

This is not the sensitivity station. "Not being nice" is not the same as "being rude" — and your incredibly frivolous complaints are only diluting any possible action that could be taken in the future. --Haemo (talk) 21:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

~~Not nice/rude. It is a tough call. MickMacNee (talk) 23:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)~~ Strike, user is apparently too stressed with wikipedia right now to reply. MickMacNee (talk) 23:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

MickMacNee is too quick to jump on everything that Betacommand does, it's true, and this will not help the situation. Beta has not said anything particularly uncivil. He is, however, showing his usual disregard for other people's ideas. I would say there's nothing actionable here right now, but that Betacommand seriously needs to start working with other people instead of dismissing everyone who ever disagrees with him. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 16:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Odd "images"

I've created a list of "images" where the MIME type doesn't match the file extension. The list isn't perfectly filtered, but it's close enough. The "number" column is just arbitrary to give an idea of how many mismatches there are. Some of the them are simple mistakes -- having .jpe instead of .jpg. Others are more nefarious (.txt files being called .ogg, etc.). Any help would be appreciated in either deleting these or fixing the file extension and re-uploading them.

The list is located here. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Any reason why bmp isn't one of the extensions supported by the site? Many of these images were merely attempts to get around that problem. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 05:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Bitmap images are highly inefficient - where lossless compression is needed, PNG can provide that, and where it isn't, JPEG does even better. There's no reason to use them, and some very good reasons not to (they take significantly more bandwidth to serve to users, even as thumbnails). Zetawoof_(ζ) 06:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Mediawiki actually has code to verify mime types during upload. Since your list only has 600 items, that may mean that it works pretty well, but doesn't catch certain types of cases. Dragons flight (talk) 06:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I've started going through and converting some of the bitmap-masquerading-as-JPEG images to actual JPEGs at a decently high quality (95%), as well as tagging a couple of the unused ones for deletion. Zetawoof_(ζ) 06:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Is it legal to change a fair-use .bmp into an other format, or is it considered a modification to the image? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Mu. Yes it is legal, and yes it is a (minor) modification of the image. Modifications, even very major ones, are not incompatible with fair use. Dragons flight (talk) 08:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This is also a perfect opportunity to move the free images on this list to Commons. —Scott5114 ↗ 21:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't .xls actually the correct suffix for "application/vnd.ms-excel"? (Of course, the issue of whether we should be having Excel spreadsheets on Misplaced Pages at all is a different matter.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 19:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Boldness

There has been an increasingly acrimonious debate over a list of songs featuring "sexual attraction to children or adults". Most of the entries in the original list were not referenced or were apparently about pedophilia or sexual abuse. No unequivocally referenced items about "sexual attraction to children or adolescents" were in the list as of this morning (and yes, it was me who removed all the unreferenced ones a short while back, per WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NPOV and WP:OMG). I went back through the history and discovered that the original title, which it has had for most of its life, was List of songs portraying paedophilia or sexual abuse of minors, and most of the entries were added with this title or something close, which goes a long way towards explaining the sourcing issues - I suspect it would be a great deal easier to source them at the title the list had when they were mostly added (see for example). The article was moved in late March and several times again more recently, which has been disruptive and made sourcing next to impossible as the target keeps moving. So I have boldly moved the list back to List of songs portraying paedophilia or sexual abuse of minors and locked moves to prevent further disruptive move warring and see if the list can be adequately sourced at something close to its original title. If we still can't source it, I will take it back to AfD. Since this required use of one admin tool (protecting against further moves) I am noting it here, if anyone feels this is unwarranted they have my full permission to lift that protection and / or implement a better solution to the problem. Guy (Help!) 13:04, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I support the move protection. Agree that AfD should be the next step if no sources can be found. EdJohnston (talk) 15:45, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Not a very encyclopedic topic. I would support deletion unless there's some referenced things that can be placed on the list. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 17:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this. It should have been done a long time ago. -- Naerii 10:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Statistics page

Special:Statistics gets a lot of views. The external link-stats are actually linked to from MediaWiki:Statistics-footer (before that MediaWiki:Userstatstext). For the last year or so, I've added the WikiCharts, then removed them once they stopped working. I added the Wikirage "most edited pages" links, and the http://stats.grok.se page. I won't be editing Misplaced Pages as much as I have been doing in the past from now on, so perhaps admins here could add these pages to their watchlists and keep an eye on whether the Wikirage & traffic stats pages are still working, and whether there are new pages that should be added. Cheers, JACOPLANE • 2008-04-15 21:29

Community ban of self proclaimed "Asia Fan Club President"

This is a disturbing tale of abuse. Many, many months of extensivly relentless abuse of wikipedia in order to promote asiafanclub.com and use Misplaced Pages as a "vehicle for advertising"

Extensive abuse of wikipedia

User_talk:70.188.184.84
Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mondrago
Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive362
Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Mondrago
Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive366
Talk:Asia (band)
MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/February_2008#More_asiafanclub_spam
MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/February_2008#asiafanclub.com
User talk:Nakon#Spam blacklist
Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Spam/LinkReports/asiafanclub.com (incomplete)
More asiafanclub spam
Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive362#Linkspammer issuing legal threats on talk page
- "I have 20000 fans in my newsletter that will come here to edit this. If we meet any resistance we will file a lawsuit for emotional stress and discrimination and deformation (as it was reported that we loaded SPAM by loading the Authorized ASIA Fan Club to Misplaced Pages) and sue personally those who edited out this important authorized site and this will go to the Arbitration Committee"
User_talk:A._B.#Talk:Asia_.28band.29.
Spamed offsite forums including email abuse
User_talk:Hu12/Archive6#Asia__spam_being_re-added_again
MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist#Request_asiafanclub_dot_com_to_be_removed_from_blacklist
MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist#Request_for_additional_administrator_input_on_blacklist_status_of_asiafanclub_dot_com
MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist#Request_unbias_opinion_for_removal_of_asia_fan_club_from_blacklist
".... you think it's over... if you think I'm going anywhere think again, real good."

List of accounts and IP socks

Template:MultiCol

Clear evidence violating WP:DISRUPT, WP:POINT, WP:SOCK, WP:SPAM, WP:CANVASS, WP:NOT and WP:CIV. Multiple spam attacks, edit warring, sneaky attempts to subvert wikipedia policy, creating False consensus through use of mutiple IP's, attempting to circumvent blacklisting by creating asiafanclub.4t.com and worst of all the legal threats made by "Asia Fan Club President". This is a clear case where wikipedia is being terrorized by an individual in an attempt to advance a site owners agenda.--Hu12 (talk) 03:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I would endorse such a ban. I initially became involved with the whole Asia Fan Club link issue when the editor in question and individuals recruited from the Asia fan community first started trying to strong-arm the link into the article, in response to which I protected the page. When I attempted to extend the assumption of good faith to this user and (foolishly and naively) removed the URL from the spam blacklist it only served to increase the fervour and determination with which this user assaulted the article. I have stepped back and had no further involvment since my error of judgment but have silently watched the article talk page descend into a succession of threats (some of which he has shown that he is willing to pursue) from the editor in question and it is quite apparent that the individual will never accept the decision based in both wider policy and local consensus and will not cease in using whatever means he can contrive to disrupt Misplaced Pages. I am under no illusion that a ban will cease the disruption, but at least it will allow his dispution in the Talk namespace to be reverted on sight. CIreland (talk) 04:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Terrorized is probably extreme but this user is obviously pushing an agenda, after all of this disruption I see no reason for not banning him. - Caribbean~H.Q. 04:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Endorse ban proposal. Enigma Review 04:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Endorse This is a whole lot of disruption, I see no other way of really dealing with it. Tiptoety 04:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Endorse: The site's been blacklisted, and the user's request for a "second unbiased opinion" has been declined. seicer | talk | contribs 04:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Endorse per the above, and for many, many, many other reasons. Although I am worried that a ban might not work and he'll continue to "recycle" his IPs. BoL (Talk) 04:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

(ec) One question: didn't checkuser find that Mondrago (talk · contribs) wasn't the same as those IPs? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 04:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Some of those IPs are AFCP (he has a somewhat "distinctive" writing style), most are meatpuppets, probably recruited by appeals to his site's users (he sporadically threatens to use the Asia fan community for just such a puprpose and has followed through with on occasion). CIreland (talk) 05:02, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

...and blocked 70.188.184.84 for continued spamming. Notably for this recent edit that included a bit for "exclusive material"... The site must be getting pretty desperate. seicer | talk | contribs 04:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

66.19.204.180 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) was just blocked for the same crap. seicer | talk | contribs 05:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

These ranges should take care of the other IP used by AP.

32.138.216.0/24

32.140.14.0/24

4.238.124.24/31

4.238.124.0/24 ]

70.167.100.0/24

Blocked--Hu12 (talk) 05:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

<--- Exit stage left. We aught to be protecting the article and (possibly) the talk page for some lengthy period of time so they don't return. MER-C 06:32, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

"Exit stage left"...actually, that was Rush, not Asia. ;) Banninate with extreme prejudice. We don't need this.Gladys J Cortez 15:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Would someone mind using one of those nice collapsible boxes to inclose those IPs? I don't know the template and that could use some tidying up. Keegan 07:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

So done. If Hu (or, for that matter, anyone else) finds the boxing to be problematic, he should, of course, revert me. Joe 08:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that a page protection is needed, as the site is blacklisted. They are now aware of how to attempt to get it removed, which of course, will be denied every time (or deleted). seicer | talk | contribs 12:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I think we can safely call this one banned, I don't see any likelihood of unblocking and the game of whack-a-mole is also showing no signs of abating. Site is blacklisted on enWP, and I'm now checking for cross-wiki spam. Guy (Help!) 08:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Link info follows. MER-C 09:02, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

asiafanclub.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Misplaced Pages: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com
asiafanclub.4t.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Misplaced Pages: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com

Endorse ban. Indef any non-indef'd accounts, tag the pages, list at WP:BANNED. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect sockpuppet allegation -- in response to Sarcasticidealist's question above: I blocked one of this user's accounts as a Mondrago sockpuppet after another editor tagged him as such. A subsequent checkuser indicated no connection to Mondrago, so I goofed in using that reason for blocking him. However, by that time, there were a zillion other reasons to block him starting with incivility and legal threats. Besides open proxies, I don' t block many editors but I'd block this guy again in a heartbeat, just with a different reason.

Endorse ban. --A. B. 12:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

66.19.205.164 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Another IP, another block? These guys are relentless to get their web-site spammed. seicer | talk | contribs 21:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

66.19.201.189 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) yet another..--Hu12 (talk) 22:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone feel like chiming in on MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist#Time_for_discussion, I've had to close 4 threads by these meatpuppets, yet they continue to tendentiously repost in an obvious pursuit of a certain point, despite months of discussion and opposition from multiple administrators, including those here.--Hu12 (talk) 22:19, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I closed that one also along with a list of vio's. Further posts campaigning for Asiafanclub will be removed immediately, with little or no warning. --Hu12 (talk) 01:02, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Endorse community ban. Looks like a case for which WP:MEAT was written for. I've semi-protected the article for 2 months as well. Blueboy 96 22:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I've also semi-protected the talk page to prevent their "fan club" from ranting about. If they continue to abuse the blacklist-spam forum, I'll just wipe their comments. seicer | talk | contribs 23:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

66.19.204.206 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) Another--Hu12 (talk) 23:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd keep an eye on these two accounts

Shubopshadangalang (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Bondegezou (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

They both have been "campaigning" for "AFCP" tendentiously since january and both appear to be editing on behalf of "AFCP" and have acted as proxies for asiafanclub's interests in the past.--Hu12 (talk) 00:04, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The IP addresses at least are becoming more predictable. seicer | talk | contribs 00:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Continued WP:MEAT by Shubopshadangalang (talk · contribs) on MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist.

Seems to be a case of this user's Refusal to 'get the point' and is repeatidly editing on behalf of a banned user and acting as a proxy for "AFCP" interests--Hu12 (talk) 15:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I notice allegations have been made about my behaviour in this case. May I comment? I think some of Hu12's initial allegations against AFCP are mistaken, but, by and large, I think the admin action against AFCP is appropriate and welcome. S/he has been a most difficult and disruptive character. Interacting with AFCP is an exasperating experience, so I quite sympathise with Hu12 if s/he is frustrated with the case! However, I am taken aback by Hu12's comments as to my own behaviour. I have in the past sought to treat AFCP civilly under WP:AGF and to encourage him/her to behave better, but I strongly disagree that I am editing on behalf of AFCP. I have never had any communication with AFCP outside of Misplaced Pages Talk pages. If I may blow my own horn, I have a good record of behaviour on Misplaced Pages and only the other day was being thanked by an administrator for my patience and restraint. What I do believe is that there is a valid case under WP:EL for including the Asia Fan Club website as an external link on the grounds that the Fan Club is officially authorised (as attested by reliable sources) and thus, arguably, it constitutes an official site (from WP:EL, "Articles about any organization, person, web site, or other entity should link to the official site if any."). As I understand it, Shubopshadangalang and some further editors believe similarly. My concern is that consideration of the website's merits has been entirely overshadowed by AFCP's behaviour as an editor. I implore you all here to recognise that discussion of the merits of linking to the Asia Fan Club site may be valid and is separable from the issue of AFCP's behaviour, and that one can support such a link as an individual editor without acting as a proxy for AFCP's interests. That said, if the community is tired of the issue, with no consensus apparent, I will not seek to add or unblacklist the site in question. Bondegezou (talk) 17:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It becomes rather apparent when the same editors continue "campaigning" for "AFCP's" site despite the evidence of abuse and clear statements of policy. This has passed the point of reasonableness, and it has become obvious that there is a willful refusal to 'get the point'. Misplaced Pages is not a platform for pushing adjendas...
Self proclamed "Asia Fan Club President's" banning is a direct result of his 3 months of relentless spamming, promoting and disruption under 61 doccumented IP's and accounts for the single purpose of using Misplaced Pages to advertise Asiafanclub. Misplaced Pages is NOT a "vehicle for advertising".
Misplaced Pages is not the only victim of this persons spam attacks, he has also spammed the yesfans.com forum and email spamming its members
Asiafanclub.com is simply a privatly run site which obtains its 'official' content from the Official Asia Fan Club site originalasia.com. It is neither owned by or qualifies as ASIA's official site. While some external links may be permitted by the External links Guideline, they are in no way required, guaranteed or mandated by any Misplaced Pages policy to be included.
As stated above and as a multitude of other other administrators repeated Ad nauseam to you and Shubopshadangalang on the asia talk page, it does not meet inclusion criteria nor is it welcome on Misplaced Pages. Links to this site were repeatedly added despite the obvious community disapproval. Rationale for placing the link becomes quite secondary to the behaviour, when it reaches this stage.--Hu12 (talk) 20:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The Unblocking of User:ElisaEXPLOSiON

I think that this user should be unblocked because of the fact that she didn't do anything!!!!The sockpuppets she was accused of were not her and were indeed her brother. She needs to be unblocked so she can start editing on here.Mr. Green 17:34, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Given your statement that you don't know this user, why should we believe your claim that the sockpuppets were indeed her brother? --Yamla (talk) 17:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Because why would she create a number of seperate accounts for vandalizing and one for editing.If she was going to vandalize he would just do it on her page.Besides just because she doesn't know me doesn't mean I don't know her.By that comment I meant that she doesn't know who the owner of my page is.It could be any of her friends.The point is that I do know her, and I do know that that was her brother and not her. Mr. Green 17:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Jacob, is there something more to be said? Anything you wish to reveal about a user you supposedly do not know anything about? But as I am at work, I'll just say that I am endorsing the block for obvious sock abuse. seicer | talk | contribs 18:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This is awfully bizarre when coming from an account that is less than a month old. Jacob have you seen the concept of "Good hand, bad hand" accounts, that summarizes Elisa's pattern. - Caribbean~H.Q. 18:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

what was so obvious about it.Just because it was the same IP address doesn't mean it was her.Anybody can use any IP. As far as you know it could have been me.Mr. Green 18:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

What you think that I'm her? No I'm not.Tell me a way to prove tht I'm not and I'll do it.I'm not her.I just support her case.Somebody has to.Since everybody else is against her.Mr. Green 18:13, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you her brother? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty certain that the above user is a sock. And an awfully bad one at that. The user has now resorted to spamming various talk pages in request for assistance:

Jacob really has no real contributions to speak of, outside of comments on various talk pages. seicer | talk | contribs 18:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Account created not long after the block was assessed, two inconsequential userspace edits, and a whack of myspace-ish chatter elsewhere. Something smells here, indeed. Tony Fox (arf!) 18:32, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

That was my point exactly, usually if you are a univolved party that is asked to help someone you begin the unblock argument with something like: "The user claims that s/he deserves to be unblocked because..." you don't go directly to the relevant noticeboard screaming that "this user should be unblocked because of the fact that she didn't do anything!!!!", the sense of desperation in that message seems to illustrate some kind of involvement. - Caribbean~H.Q. 18:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Whoa hold on a minute. I've been talking to Elisa and Jacob, and it's obvious they are completely different people. Jacob goes to a boarding school. They are two completely different people i would know more than anyone else! Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 20:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Really? Do you care to explain, or shall we come to a similar conclusion as with the other socks? seicer | talk | contribs 22:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

A checkuser should be able to verify if the IP address Jacob is using is from a boarding school. NOT asking that they reveal the information, just to check to see if the contention is true. Corvus cornix_talk 23:26, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It was also good to see I was informed of this thread. *cough* Daniel (talk) 00:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

They talk in a different way. Even small things like putting a space after the dot such as elisa does, but jacob doesn't. Its these small things that make people the way they are. Jacob gave an accurate description of what he does at the boarding school, or whatever it is. Also why would Elisa choose to immatate a guy...seems kinda strange. I don't know what a checkuser is but try it..Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 11:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Just stop, you look more ridiculous the harder you try. JuJube (talk) 11:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Fortunately, i don't really care about what the look like...Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 11:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I think this user can get the point without something as harsh as a two month block. I support making the block shorter. -- Ned Scott 11:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for everyone who stuck up for me.I'll find some way to pay you back.I don't know ho w but I will. Mr. Green 15:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Block review and contributor discussion: Pixelface

Pixelface (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Pixelface (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks)

I have enacted a 12-hour block on Pixelface, further to a aiv report, for his repeated revert warring on Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not. Latest examples: , (today, 19:17, 19:51); (earlier example: 7 April). I would like some feedback regarding this block, and furthermore, the long-term response to Pixelface we need to take. Some formal response regarding the necessity for discussion may be necessary here; I suspect an underlying lack of understanding of the general requirement for consensus-building through discussion, rather than through forcing one's changes via reverting.

I also fear there may be underlying issues here; it may well be that Pixelface is upset, or having some RL problems. She or he may simply be angry at the project. We don't know what's going on behind the computer screen, but regardless, we need to reach out somehow. Iif we don't, further restrictions and/or an indefinite block may be up-and-coming, and we don't want to lose an editor who has made a moderate amount of article contributions. Anthøny 21:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Pixelface is an established user with a couple of recent blocks. Is there a way to reach out to this person? Durova 21:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Personally and as was said on his talk page I think that Pixelface is dsrupting the project to prove a point, in the past he has strongly defended some fictional articles in AFD and to me it seems like he wants to downgrade WP:PLOT from a policy such as WP:NOT to a guideline in WP:WAF in order to be able to debate how legitimate the guideline is in AFDs, this was a situation that was seen with WP:FICT before. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it is instructive to read todays postings on Pixelface's talkpage, in lieu of what Caribbean H.Q. just said - the interpretation of the meaning of consensus and the removal of text is slightly alarming, but not as alarming as the threat of leaving if they don't get their way. I wonder if this is a case of burn out, and that an absence from WP may be of benefit to all concerned? LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I would like to strongly suggest that this block was inappropriate. Pixelface was not engaging in as much discussion of the issue as he should have been, but I am confident he was acting in good faith. I saw insufficient attempt to engage Pixelface in discussion (aside from reverts saying "take it to the talk page"), followed by a warning template from a user who had previously butted heads with Pixelface, and a posting by the same user to AIV, reporting Pixelface for vandalism -- which his actions were categorically not, yet resulted in a block.

Pixelface's main point as concerns the dispute -- that the passage in question does not necessarily represent "a broad consensus", as is required for policy pages -- is valid. The "downgrade" of WP:PLOT from policy to guideline status has shown a measure of support. However, Pixelface should have been making this point predominantly on the talk page, not through reverts -- but the same goes for those who reverted him.

Pixelface's choice to "leave Misplaced Pages" is representative of anger at being blocked for reasons which I must agree were inappropriate. This is of benefit to no one.--Father Goose (talk) 02:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

If it had been one or two reverts, I'd have agreed with you, but look at the history of WP:NOT - he'd unilaterally removed that clause SIX times, being reverted by four different users, three of whom were admins. I don't believe that he genuinely doesn't understand the concept that you need actual consensus to alter existing policy (not just "a lack of conensus for it to stay the same") - it's been explained to him multiple times - which only leaves the option that he's being disruptive. Perhaps a good idea would've been a conditional unblock on the condition that he doesn't edit policy pages, but that's moot now as the block has expired. Black Kite 09:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I count five reverts over the course of three weeks, plus the initial removal, which doesn't count as a revert. That's an edit war, but a slow and low-grade one, and the block strikes me as much more punitive than preventive. I feel it would have been much better if Pixelface had been warned by an uninvolved admin (AGK or anyone else) than blocked abruptly. Sceptre's template-scold toward an established user he was already in conflict with hardly counts. At least some attempt to communicate with Pixelface about the reverts would have been far more appropriate than jumping right to a block.--Father Goose (talk) 04:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The user who "reported" Pixelface to AIV is now exulting over this outcome: . I do hope that I am not the only one who finds this entire incident disquieting.--Father Goose (talk) 07:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I doubt Pixelface was being GF; he's been edit warring in this scope for a long long' time. Sceptre 07:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that Pixelface has been generally disruptive in this whole domain of fictioncruft. Endorse block. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

(sigh) here we go again..everyone line up on opposing sides again....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, he's been rather disruptive. His actions caused the Episodes and characters 2 case. (Specifically, edit warring on Scrubs episode articles). Him saying there's no consensus for PLOT is just wrong - only he agrees that it should be removed. Sceptre 08:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

"His actions caused the Episodes and characters 2 case." - this is unfair. it takes more than one person to edit war, and other people engaged in that conflict and helped bring it to the level where arbitration was needed. Sceptre, how would you describe your role in the events that led up to that case? From what I can see, you don't seem entirely objective here. Carcharoth (talk) 09:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The Scrubs articles already had a consensus to merge. Reverting them all and knowingly violating the consensus was the action that spilled to AN, then to ARB. Sceptre 10:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Block is appropriate. Pixelface has a history of peculiar behaviour in addition to that on display on WP:NOT. I vividly remember him trying to suggest merging all of our articles on Haydn's symphonies into one list in a classic case of WP:POINT - largely because I was the one who rolled back all the merge tags. Moreschi2 (talk) 09:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It was wrong of Pixelface to edit war. It was wrong to report it to WP:AIV which is for clear-cut unquestionable vandalism, and not edit disputes. It was wrong of Sceptre to gloat over Pixelface's departure with a "Good News" headline. This is not the first case I have seen the term "vandalism" been thrown out liberally, and I seriously think ArbCom ought to consider whether their admonition in the last E&C is being heeded. In my view, people on both sides (perhaps mostly on the pro-fiction side) have been guilty of edit warring, and people have been guilty of stupid vandalism accusations. This has got to stop. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I only said "good news" because I thought TTN would see it that way. Besides, it's appropriate to call the edits vandalism; he'd been warned several times that removing the section would be edit-warring-if-not-vandalism without a clear consensus. Sceptre 10:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Sceptre, you, like me, was an admin once, and people who hold or have held that position are expected, if not required to know what vandalism is and especially what it is not. Straight from the vandalism policy, we can see the excessive stubbornness is not vandalism. "Some users cannot come to agreement with others who are willing to talk to them about an editing issue, and repeatedly make changes opposed by everyone else. This is regrettable—you may wish to see our dispute resolution pages to get help. Repeated deletion or addition of material may violate the three-revert rule, but this is not "vandalism" and should not be dealt with as such." Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I was looking at the "removing content for no reason", not "stubbornness". Sceptre 11:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

He had a reason. You may not agree with that reason, and he may be wrong, but he still had a reason. It wasn't "vandalism", that is a term that should not be thrown around inappropriately, especially at established users. And your gloating over his leaving is absolutely unacceptable. the wub "?!" 11:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

A user who puts "is gay" on a BLP and saying "adding a fact" isn't adding a fact. Sceptre 12:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Um, unless the subject is gay and has said they are? You could ask for a reference, but without the reference it should be removed. Does that count as vandalism, though? Surely that depends on whether or not a reference can be found. If not, then it probably was. If yes, then it was adding unreferenced material to a BLP. Is that in the vandalism definition? Carcharoth (talk) 13:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

There's Misplaced Pages for you: use a common example of vandalism as an example and you get people asking if it really is. And yes, BLP vios are covered by vandalism. Sceptre 15:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Define BLP vio. Carcharoth (talk) 15:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced/poorly sourced contentious material about a living person. Besides, even were it not a BLP vio, it's silly vandalism. Sceptre 15:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't be contentious on Ian McKellan would it? It would be poorly sourced, but surely not contentious? Unless you view all poorly sourced material as contentious (and there are good arguments for doing that on BLPs). Carcharoth (talk) 15:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Of course not. McKellan's homosexuality is quite well known. Besides, second sentence of my last post "if not a BLP vio, it's silly vandalism". Sceptre 15:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I see the worst of the problem as the message. Yes, the ed. it was sent to might well have thought it good news, (and apparently did ) but WP user pages aren't private--sending a message like that might give reasons to suspect something in the nature of a joint concerted effort at trying to get an opponent to leave WP. Perhaps he needed a short block--he did not need being insulted in such a way as to make him feel the best course was to leave the project. We're not supposed to be enemies here, only opponents over particular issues, & when it does degenerate into personal enmity, we should at least have the decency to keep it private. Following the thread there, though, the subsequent discussion did seem much more appropriate. Sceptre, you might helpfully ask TTN to refactor. DGG (talk)

Whether the block itself was appropriate or not, calling what happened "vandalism" in the edit summary is certainly inaccurate, and that bothers me more so than the block itself. Wizardman 03:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, after reviewing some others' actions post-block, I change my stance to one admonishing the block. Bad move. Wizardman 04:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

This should never have been reported to WP:AIV in the first place, as the board is for reporting instances of obvious vandalism. A dispute over policy may be many things, but this was not a case of vandalism. Pixelface should not have been blocked by labeling it as such. R. Baley (talk) 04:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Pixelface is a good faith editor and an asset to our project who made both my list of wise Wikipedians and my list of nice Wikipedians. We should encouage him to return. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 23:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Template:PD

Discussion moved to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Template:PD

Transcluding CSD

Lots of editors have recently started transcluding User:Cyde/List of candidates for speedy deletion to their userpages (see, for example User:Malinaccier, User:Gb, User:Hennessey, Patrick/Desk, User:GlassCobra, etc - just click on any article on CSD and check its "whatlinkshere"). This makes checking Whatlinkshere a nightmare when speedily deleting articles, as every article in C:CSD now has many many links. I am inclined to just remove the transclusions, but is there some kind of cunning way these transclusions would not be included in "Whatlinkshere"? Neıl ☎ 10:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

If there was, it would be classic WP:BEANS. You could filter by namespace, or you could ask for the developer who recently changed how "what links here" works to find some way of marking not only transclusions, but links that result from transclusions. Ultimately, that would only work if a page that was both linked, transcluded and "transcluded-linked" appeared three times in the "what links here" list (marked differently each time). If it appeared once, that wouldn't really help. Carcharoth (talk) 10:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I figured as much. I am de-transcluding all the links to Cyde's page and pointing people to this thread in the edit summary. Neıl ☎ 10:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that - that's not really a new issue, though - I recall raising it with my nom the day after I got the mop and started cleaning out CAT:CSD. It got to where I recognised the usual suspects (ie. the admins that had the CSD tracker on their "desks" and mentally ignored those when dealing with links to soon-to-be-deleted articles. _{The public face of GB} 11:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Twinkle does have an option to "unlink" (remove backlinks) automatically, either generally or when speedy-deleting, if that helps. —TreasuryTag—t—c 11:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

How is this a helpful feature anyway? De-linking would only need to be reverted after a successful DRV, or if a higher-quality article is created from scratch. This "feature" should be used very sparingly if at all. — CharlotteWebb 13:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Re-program the bot to link like to ] rather than just ]. Do it this way and no page using Cyde's list will appear in "Whatlinkshere". — CharlotteWebb 13:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Really? Let's test ... User:Neil/quack. Neıl ☎ 14:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Nope, doesn't work - (). Neıl ☎ 14:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

, however, does seem to work; see User:Iamunknown/sandbox & Special:WhatLinksHere/User:Neil/quack. Of course, utilising this code would require Cyde to re-program the bot; a MediaWiki software solution (such as filtering namespaces, as mentioned above) would be more desirable. --Iamunknown 15:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

] also seems to work (example: User:Ilmari Karonen/sandbox/quack). —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 19:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The obvious fix to me seems to be to remove all of the transclusions. When I was making the list, I never envisioned that as anything anyone would ever want to do, and I still don't see why one would do it. --Cyde Weys 01:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

yes, seems much simpler just to bookmark CSD and look every once in a while. DGG (talk) 02:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Mirrors and talk pages

What is my talk page doing in a medical library?? :-) Are they really supposed to be doing that? Carcharoth (talk) 15:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a mirror. — Edokter • Talk • 15:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

See User_talk:CorenSearchBot#Medlibrary.org for a bizarre encounter with that site. MickMacNee (talk) 16:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

"It's a mirror" - didn't I say that in the section header? :-) What I am saying is why are some mirrors so utterly indiscriminate. Silly. Carcharoth (talk) 16:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

You might as well ask "why is the sky blue", except that someone's likely actually answer the question. Some mirrors are indiscriminate cuz their operators don't care. Others because the ops are clueless. And still others because... well, any number of reasons. :-) - Philippe 16:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Did they actually copy the content of all these talk pages to their website, or is their website simply showing pages from our site surrounded by their frame? --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 20:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

If you think that's strange, I've seen my name pop up on process pages like TFD or AN (translated into another langauge too). Why they'd want to scrap the inner bowels of the administrative side is beyond me. hbdragon88 (talk) 23:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

See the blue box in my User page. You might want to add something like that to your User page to let people know what's going on when they stumble on the copy in a mirror. Corvus cornix_talk 23:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Or: {{userpage}} and {{usertalkpage}}. --— Gadget850 (Ed) - 16:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Maxim has retired

Maxim (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) has retired, citing User:Togepi 987 as one of the reasons. I can see his point: this guy seems somewhat disruptive. He has vandalised a number of userpages, simply because the associated wikipedian has undertaken an action he did not agree with (for his vandalism of Maxim's page, it was because Maxim had deleted an article he was working on). I have left a final warning on User talk:Togepi 987; I'd also encourage any passing-byers to leave a note on Maxim's talk page, to let him know he doesn't need to worry about this sort of thing. Cheers, Anthøny 17:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Maxim didn't cite User:Togepi 987, User:Togepi 987 cited himself and added the retired tag. See , , and . I undid all this (I think) with this and then (when I realised what had happened) this. Not sure if this was after the warning, as I don't have time to check. Can someone else deal? Carcharoth (talk) 17:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Togepi needs a stern warning. I don't think it's suitable to be bragging about driving Wikipedians away (yes, the irony) Sceptre 17:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I've also removed some fair-use images from his user page & a sub-page. My impression is that this user is disruptive, however, let's wait and see. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 17:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe someone should talk to him.... A lot of this stuff seems awful disrptive.

March 16, 2008 Vandalises Woohookitty's userpage
March 30, 2008 Vandalized maxim's userpage again (deleted)
March 31, 2008 Added a protected template to maxim's userpage (deleted)
April 3, 2008 Marks FuriousFreddy retired
April 11, 2008 Marks Sticky_Light retired
April 14, 2008 Marks brokendownhondaaccord retired (admin only -- deleted)
April 15, 2008 Marks Circus206 retired
April 17, 2008 Marks Maxim retired
Others have tried talking to this user about it, without much luck, Most of it seems vengance-based, after a couple deletions. SQL 17:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Check his deleted contribs too. I deleted a couple cases where he created userpages for indef blocked users and an IP address. Mr.Z-man 18:02, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Yep. Amended. SQL 18:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I just removed a retirement tag he put on User:Cirus206 (which was reverted by another user, who he then reverted) and deleted a blatant copyvio. Did we lose our spines or something? Block him forever and move along; I can't speak for everyone, but I know for a fact that I've got better things to do than hand-hold some kid that thinks its fun to stay just this side of an indefinite block. EVula // talk // ☯ // 18:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
- Done. Jehochman 18:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  - Wow, I feel like a one-man cabal. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 19:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
    - , When in doubt EVula works it out. teh sh*t. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't object, but of course, we must assume good faith. Sceptre 18:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
No we don't. You can, but I will dispense with good faith when it is demonstrably shown to be a faulty assumption. --Golbez (talk) 19:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I think we cling to AGF far, far too much. Someone who is so obviously disruptive deserves very little in the ways of good faith assumptions. Either be a constructive member of the community (contributing either to the encyclopedia, the framework of the project, or even the community around either/both) or go somewhere else; that would be a much better attitude to take, in my opinion, than constantly hoping for the best despite the evidence at hand. EVula // talk // ☯ // 19:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. How many times do you AGF on a user before you accept that they are only there to take advantage of it? The only thing assuming good faith out of users with consistent patterns of abusing that good faith accomplishes is the kind of drama we are seeing. This project would be better served by spending less time coddling such users, and more in assisting those that are valuable assets to it. Reso lute 19:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Good block. There are times that talking gets things only so far. Pastordavid (talk) 19:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
For those that are interested, this thread prompted me to write a quick little essay (that I'll expand on when I'm not at work) about AGF, merging my comments here with something I posted over at m:Global blocking. Check it out at User:EVula/opining/on the Assumption of Good Faith, and feel free to make suggestions on the talk page; I'd love to make it a working example for new administrators (gotta make 'em jaded early on!). EVula // talk // ☯ // 19:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Golbez, I've learnt first hand that knowing policies means shit all if you don't dance around the Maypole. Sceptre 19:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
- Well determined block. Disruption was the only agenda for this user. Rudget 19:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

One day, we'll get our collective heads out of our collective asses and realize that Assume good faith is named that for a reason: good faith is an assumption, and can be rebutted by evidence. AGF only stretches over behavior that can be reasonably attributed to misunderstanding or lack of knowlegde— someone who persists in improper acts after having been told to stop is demonstrably not acting in good faith anymore. — Coren 23:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. I would have blocked here, for a month or longer, up to indef, but was just leaving the computer at the time, so I left it for others to deal with. The warnings were not working, so a lengthy block was needed. Question: is it acceptable, if you don't quite want to go for indefinite, to block for a month and say in the block log "please extend to indefinite if disruptive activity resumes", or should block log summaries be kept as short and factual as possible, rather than used to talk to future people reviewing the situation? If I ever used such a block log summary, I would repeat it on the talk page. Though I must admit that this case is one where I would have blocked indefinitely and left it to them to negotiate the appeal process. Carcharoth (talk) 07:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't have a problem with a block log like that but I think it would be better to let the next admin decide. Who knows, he could have come back, acted well for months and did a little disruption, and an indefinite might seem extreme. Here, he's blocked, and already listed one pretty silly unblock request. It's obvious what he's here for. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Assume good faith means we block him for abject stupidity and if he apologises and undertakes not to do it then we unblock him. And watch every edit. Assume good faith does not mean make like Mary Poppins in the face of blatant vandalism, I think. Guy (Help!) 22:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

user Jagra

User Jagra has removed POV tag unilaterally, without even entering into a discussion with other user over what caused the tag to be placed in the first place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.102.112 (talk) 20:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The discussion at Talk:Chronic fatigue syndrome would suggest that there's been no real reason to affix the POV tag put forward. I'd suggest explaining the reasoning, with references, there. Otherwise, you want dispute resolution; there's no real admin action required here. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

If the tagging isn't justified, of course it should be removed. So... where's the justification for the tag? – Luna Santin (talk) 22:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Politically-motivated systematic edits

Dale-DCX (talk · contribs) had been making various edits to many articles systematically changing "American" to "from the United States of America", causing the text to become stilted. In the articles that the user had edited, there isn't confusion as to which meaning of "American" is meant, and the word "American" is already wikilinked to the United States article. Efforts to resolve this with the user didn't seem to go anywhere. DHN (talk) 22:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Using "American" to describe people from the United States does seem to be a common practice, but there's no harm in responding to this person's concerns. I've solicited some comments at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style#American and Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#American. – Luna Santin (talk) 22:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Please. How many times does this dead horse have to be beaten? Corvus cornix_talk 23:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I guess this horse keeps getting beaten due to cultural differences, for example in Spanish the term used is Estadounidense wich would be "United State+ sian or tian" for most Latin cultures it makes no sense to call any of the American countries "America" since America is often used to describe the entire "new world" and the term Americano/a is usually used when referering to something belonging to the entire region, Norteamericano (North American) is often erroneously used when referencing something originating from the United States, in Spanish calling someone a "American" is more of a generic term simmilar to European or Asian. Then again this is mostly my own personal experience with both Puerto Rican Spanish and communication with other Latinos, the definition may vary per region as is often the case between dialects. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Per the MoS, the relevant cultures usage of the term would be preferred - while not strictly accurate (and when considering the rest of the America's, very ambiguous) most citizens of the United States of America refer to themselves as "Americans". This is the English Language Misplaced Pages, and the other English speaking nations generally mean the United States when referring to Americans. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Backlog at WP:UAA

Resolved

It's pretty heavy over there. Could a few more admins head over? Malinaccier (talk) 22:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it was actually pretty bad. Either way it looks like it has been pretty much cleared. Thanks guys! Tiptoety 22:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Cafe Nervosa

This page was just created and would appear to be on the same subject as the prodded article Café Nervosa. Would it be possible for the old article to be restored behind the new one so that all possible information is available to those who may wish to improve or evaluate the article. Guest9999 (talk) 00:01, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, I have restoired the page with the accents which was PRODded above, and redirected the new page and added the one line of information in the new one which was not in the old one. I guess an AfD is in order as this page has been recreated numerous times. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Amusing, it appears to have been the subject of a cookbook:

Cafe Nervosa: The Connoisseur's Cookbook Oxmoor House ISBN 0-8487-1550-0

Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. Guest9999 (talk) 00:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Peter Robinson (disambiguous)

Please move Peter Robinson (disambiguous) over the existing page Peter Robinson (disambiguation). Almost all content is mine and the one pair of edits that aren't are duly noted on Talk:Peter Robinson (disambiguous). Thanks. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 00:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Done and the histories are merged. WODUP 00:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

What in God's name?

I just found Talk:Satellite (disambiguation) created as apparent nonsense, and marked it for speedy. The author's user page and talk page, as well as this page and its 'archives', appear to consist entirely of nonsense. What's going on? The way, the truth, and the light (talk) 02:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a consequence of this user's editing. Apparently he has to use a non-traditional interface for his computer than results in the odd formatting. (I think it's been mentioned on ANI in the past). Best, --Bfigura 02:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I still fail to understand how this:"And, I do need to ask this someplace, about last night's Philadelphia debate: My impression: Hillary Clinton speaks, they show us Chelsea Victoria Clinton. Barack Obama speaks, they show us Chelsea Clinton. Repetitively. And, various other persons in the studio, were lit blue. Was the American Broadcast Conglomerate, Disney channel, denial channel, the blue network? Is it a purple city? Is it a blue party?" has anything to do with satellites, to me it looks like a very botched edit. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, this is a long one. Someone is going to come in with links and history and whatnot eventually. Last I recall there was some thought that Hopiakuta may have some mental barrier of some sort; his edits don't seem to be aimed to be disruptive most of the time, though they can turn that way. As far as I know, no one has really made out the nature of the situation with any certainty. Also, many odd userspace pages. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

This user's bizarre formatting has come up on ANI at least five times in the past; it's caused by a screen reader. Someguy1221 (talk) 07:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know that that's altogether clear; although one ANI thread suggested that the user confirmed that he was using a screen reader, another noted his profession that his primary disability is not visual in nature and that he does not use a screen reader (other relevant AN and ANI threads may be found here, here, here, here, and here). In any case, it is apparent that there exist issues here that are other-than-technical in nature (as well outlined by L'Aquatique, who is, I imagine it is fair to say, amongst our most dedicated accessibility advocates, in the latter ANI discussion and in an October 2007 extended colloquy undertaken amongst several editors interested in helping Hopiakuta to edit more constructively, in order that his presence here might benefit both him and the project, and in order that disruption should be reduced sufficently that we might adjudge the net effect on the project of Hopiakuta's presence to be positive—to be sure, there is no particular harm in his editing incomprehensibly in his own user and user talk pages , but some of the style, formatting, and substance that he introduces in userspace would not be well situated in mainspace), and it remains for the community to determine whether there Hopiakuta's presence has a deleterious effect on the project; on that I, having looked into the situation only cursorily, have no opinion, and I mean only to note that a broader community discussion might, at some point, be appropriate. Joe 08:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say five or discussion in the almost 18 months seems like a small issue. Hell, I think I've been complained about on this noticeboard more than that, and I hope nobody has a problem understanding what I'm doing. I just wish someone could help him with his signature; that's the biggest headache to dealing with him. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to add to this, Hopiakuta definitely does have some distinctive communications issues - if you've seen one message by him, you're likely not to forget it. However, the fact is that he has also made valuable contributions to the project - within the past few days, for instance, we had a posting here about the Coachella article, because another editor couldn't make out what he was trying to say on the talk page - but after I took the time to tease out what he was communicating, it happened that he was right, and the page in question is improved by having addressed his concerns. In general, if you understand that he communicates in a way that appears disorganized, and accept that he has that limitation, there are valuable contributions behind it - though it can be a chore to see it. — Gavia immer (talk) 14:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

q.v. Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/User:hopiakuta ~Kylu (u|t) 05:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Something strange on the Main Page Talk Board

Talk:Main_Page#Role_of_Effective_Communication_in_Distributed_Software_Development

(insert question mark here) --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 07:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, someone deleted already. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 07:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you think that Grawp (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is notable enough to have imitators?

I recently filed an abuse report on all of the IPs listed as sockpuppets of Grawp (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), but according to the user who is handling the report, they cover multiple ranges. Do you think that this means that Grawp has imitators? Grawp doesn't seem like a very notable vandal to me.--Urban Rose 09:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he does, or at least folks here label some vandals as Grawp who are not, which amounts to the same thing. Thatcher 10:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree he probably does. After seeing one of his attacks live the other day. But is could just be him using proxys e.t.c. ·Add§hore· /_Cont 11:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Proxy, probably. He's notable, but not enough to have that many sheep. Rudget 15:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Not to get too far into the beans, but I think that one of Grawp's methods is message board posting with a link asking people to click the link and save the page. That could explain why a great number of ranges would be involved. --Onorem ♠Dil 15:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

You guys,Grawp is proboly a group of people set out to mess with Misplaced Pages.They are proboly just a group of teens with no lives.I honestly think that we have nothing to worry about.If we don't get so worked up then they won't be having as much fun.People like this only want one thing, and that is reaction.They feed off of us getting angry with them.That is his/her/their sole purpose in this whole thing.Mr. Green 16:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Notable? Seems an odd application of the term. :p Grawp is arguably an imitator of other vandals, depending on how you look at it. Checkuser and similar business aside, it doesn't seem to matter much whether it's one person or several when it comes to on-wiki response: just revert, block, ignore, and deny recognition a bit while we're at it. – Luna Santin (talk) 03:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I find the case of Headstrust (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) of interest, where all sockpuppets that were not blocked a year ago suddenly became active again. Either it is the same person - or a copycat using his old accounts again, or some other beanish explanation which should lead us to think what we do with old socking vandals. Agathoclea (talk) 11:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Panel 2008 3RR

Resolved – This needs to be deferred to the appropriate venue. Rudget 12:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Extremely minor, I know, but User:Panel 2008 appears to have broken 3RR at Central Europe and is persistently refusing to recognise consensus, a short block would serve as a great wake-up call - if any admin is not busy. Cheers. +Hexagon1 13:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

PS: There've also been allegations of sock-puppetry here, claims Panel 2008 and User:Olahus are the same user. +Hexagon1 13:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The repetitive and persistent edit wars in Central Europe, especially by new users, make some form of protection a considerable option. Pundit|utter 15:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you should protect the page and block both of the users pages for 2 days.Mr. Green 17:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Kiezuko

Resolved

User:Kiezuko has created an account with a username almost like mine except for switching two letters. He has vandalized my user page twice already by adding insulting and/or controversial content (], ]). Is there a way this vandal account could be blocked? Thanks. Keizuko (talk) 13:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Blocked. MaxSem 13:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Community ban of Setanta747

See this case for diffs and evidence:

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Setanta747

Summary

The user was threatened with ArbCom probation due to disruptive editing related to The Troubles. Several months ago they abandoned their account and continued the disruptive editing by hopping around on different IP addresses. A block for sock puppetry will not be effective in preventing damage to the encyclopedia because the user isn't editing at all via their main account and probably isn't even watching their talk page. Therefore, I am requesting a 30 day community ban applicable to any account they may use. By established process, the ban can be reset by any administrator if there is further socking. Jehochman 13:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

isn't the traditional defense against an IP-hopping vandal semiprotection? --Alvestrand (talk) 13:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Too many articles in this case, I think. The Troubles, including side issues like flagcruft-warring, is very wide-ranging. Black Kite 15:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

If I were to base my decision on the SSP case, then I'd endorse a community ban. Rudget 15:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

We want the editors who know this person's habits to be able to revert problems wherever they appear. This will help minimize drama, and encourage the disruptive editor to give up the IP tactic. As soon as they quit, 30 days later they are unbanned and can resume using their account as long as they behave properly. Jehochman 15:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest the probation is imposed on the editor, that way it applies to any account or IP he edits from. He was threatened with probation, used IPs to avoid probation and carry on edit waring, so he should be on probation. --Domer48 (talk) 18:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Is anyone else having this problem?

Resolved

Editing this page causes all of the text to be reversed. Is anyone else getting this problem or is it just my browser? Nakon 14:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone inserted a direction mark into wikitext, I've fixed that. MaxSem 14:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Image:Lord john russell.jpg

Resolved – Restored. Information is now accessable. Rudget 15:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

This image was poorly transferred to commons, without any description/source/author/date/etc. The local duplicate has been deleted and i can’t access it. Would it be possible to know it’s former content? Thanks in advance. EuTuga 15:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Alzuun

This is a really odd case. What we have here is a user who appears to be well-meaning, but very young. S/he has a long history of deleted articles and has just reposted a deleted POV dicdef under a completely implausible title. I don't think this is a vandal per se, but the user is IMO being very disruptive. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 16:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the user does'nt really know what s/he are doing.How long has s/he been a user?Mr. Green 16:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any recent edits by this user. Could you provide a diff of what you are talking about? (or was it deleted) Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

No edits since March 30. There was an article created and speedily deleted (I think twice) today, other than that, no other deleted edits since January. Seems to be a non issue/low frequency, and not even vandalism anyway. For what it's worth, I actually found the speedy deleted article rather intriguing in concept). No action is necessary here, other than some talk page civility to help the fellow Wikipedian. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Case Closed!Mr. Green 16:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I have talked to the user about the issue.Will somone review my comments and correct them if they are wrong?Mr. Green 17:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the try; the issue wasn't the editor deleting articles, it was creating multiple articles that have been deleted. I've left an expanded note on learning to edit and create good articles. Tony Fox (arf!) 19:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Blocking of IP:168.10.156.5

Someone on this IP is vandalizing several pages and needs to be blocked. Anyone against it?Mr. Green 17:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

NVM, its been taken care of. Mr. Green 18:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

For future reference, the proper place to report vandalism is this way. Tiptoety 18:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Unactionable consensus for change on ITN

The In the News (ITN) section on the Main Page is a portal for featuring up-to-date encyclopedic content reflecting important international current events. Currently the established criteria almost completely exclude the possibility of including deaths on the template. The deaths of Pavarotti, Arthur C. Clarke, Edmund Hillary, Bobby Fischer, and Charlton Heston were not included on the basis of these criteria despite a consensus that they should have been included anyway. Their deaths fulfilled neither criteria 5 (no "substantial update" beyond acknowledging the date, cause, and possibly responses to the death) nor criteria 6 (no office, not unexpected, no larger impact). There is an on-going debate and general consensus that these deaths and others like them should be included and the criteria should be changed.

We are now debating whether or not to include the deaths of two scientific luminaries, John Archibald Wheeler and Edward Lorenz. There is general support for promoting them to the template, but administrators are placed in the unenviable position of having to be the first to break ranks and precedent by promoting a death for a notable person. Please comment on the specific nominations or the death criteria debate about why these news items should or should not be promoted. This notice is a band-aid solution and we don't anticipate having to resort to WP:AN every time. But how else a community of editors can go about implementing change when the means for enacting that change are reserved to another class of users? Madcoverboy (talk) 18:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Persistent vandalism at Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

There is a blocked user who keeps creating sock puppets in order to vandalize the Ataturk page. In the past three days, this user has mainfested as User:Rustypipe, User:Magnetizer88, User:ChocolatePain and User:Murlocs. He (or she) was previously making similar posts to the talk page under the IP address 128.226.160.187. Is it possible to block new accounts coming from this IP? I've reported this user more than once at AIV, but he just creates new accounts.

Also, please let me know if here is the right place to report this, or if this post should have been made somewhere else. Thanks, Kafka Liz (talk) 20:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

A quick review of 128.226.160.187 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (I thought this looked familiar) indicates that little collateral damage would be done if this address was blocked with account creation disabled for a month or so. Any socks not already dealt with will be quickly exhausted. If this proves succesful the ip block with account creation disabled could be applied in a future scenario. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I see the sock accounts were created before the April 11 block. Hopefully he'll run out of them soon. Thanks, Kafka Liz (talk) 12:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I have blocked the ip for a month, per my suggestion above. I shall watch the ip page, in case a legit prospective editor needs help. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism at Demographics of Lebanon

An anon repeatedly vandalises the article. I tried to warn him/her but there was no discussion or any reaction except more vandal attacks again the article. I think Demographics of Lebanon should be protected for a short time. Zello (talk) 20:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It appears that the ip doesn't understand what an emmigrant is, and is attempting to reflect the religious makeup of the countries population. A last attempt at communication may be worthwhile. I would counsel against protection as it may be in the wrong version. As it is only the one ip that appears to be editing against consensus I suggest that blocking that editor may be the most effective manner is stopping the edit war - providing the last warning doesn't work. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Upon further review I can see no references given for the breakdown by religion of the diaspora. If there is no cites I suggest removing reference to religion. Again, adding it back (by either party!) without a source would be considered vandalism. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

You can request page protection here: Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection. --Apis 23:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

RfC close

An RfC (Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (Kosovo-related articles)/Prishtina-Pristina-Priština) that I started because I was getting fed up of the contradictory {{editprotected}} requests, has been open for nine days and is time for closure. My interpretation of it is that there is a clear consensus, particularly among the uninvolved editors (you can tell because they just make one comment rather than rehashing the same arguments with each other for 20 screens :D) for Pristina, the second of the three options. But so this can be put firmly to bed, can a completely uninvolved admin or two take a look and check my reading of the discussion? I know we're not arbitors, but reading consensus comes with the job... and hey, it can't be much harder than a nasty AfD, can it :D?? Happy‑melon 20:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It can...

I think it is quite clear that Pristina shuld be the title, as it is currently the widely accepted English name. And I also think that such stands clear from the discussion. I understand the fact that both supporters of Prishtina and of Priština dislike it, just the same way that I - a Portuguese - rather dislike Ferdinand Magellan, which actually is Fernão de Magalhães in Portuguese. Yet I accept the English name, no matter how wildly incorrect it sounds from a Portuguese point of view. - Nabla (talk) 23:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

User pages deletions

Can someone please explain to me the mass deletion of my personal use pages by JzG (talk · contribs)?

~~User:Jaakobou/Temp2~~ <- checked, material was initially edit warred out of Battle of Jenin, requires full discussion when I have the time. For the meantime moved to User:Jaakobou/Other controversies - no objection to deletion of User:Jaakobou/Temp2. Jaakobou 12:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
User talk:Jaakobou/Battle of Jenin
~~User:Jaakobou/Battle of Jenin~~ <- checked, see comment.
~~User:Jaakobou/Celebrations~~ <- checked.
User:Jaakobou/WarCriminalCharges
User:Jaakobou/Arbitration Background
~~User:Jaakobou/1929 Hebron Massacre~~ <- checked, number of sources waiting for translation and insertion into 1929 Hebron Massacre - see comment. Jaakobou 12:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
There might be others that I've missed, I can't see deleted pages in his contributions.

I could also use an explanation to this WP:NPA/WP:AGF comment by User:Sceptre in response to my request that JzG undo his page deletion.

"Don't; I've dealt with Jaakobou before, and he's got a problem with POV." - Sceptre, 18:29, 18 April 2008.

With respect, Jaakobou 21:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC) fix user links. Jaakobou 21:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC) another 21:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-04-08 Saeb Erekat. Sceptre 21:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

While cleaning up links to an inappropriate copyvio-riddled polemical user-edited source, I found a few userspace pages that seemed to be sandboxes from period of protection on pages which currently exist in mainspace. They had not been edited in a while, any of them, so I nuked them. There's no reason not to work on the content in mainspace, userspace forks only make life more complex in dealing with contentious subjects, and some users had more than one copy of a given page, other pages were in more than one user space. This was just janitorial work. There really is no reason Jaakobou should not edit the articles in mainspace, although looking at the history it does look rather as if the edits he has tried to make, have been rejected. That would, of course, make them WP:POVFORKs instead of just sandboxes, but I assumed good faith. Guy (Help!) 22:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
- Ongoing discussion currently on #wikipedia-en. Mc_rochip 22:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Copied from IRC #Misplaced Pages-en:
"(REMOVED - No public logging! Mc_rochip 12:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC))
I request JzK's deletions reverted. Jaakobou 22:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
See Misplaced Pages:USER#Copies_of_other_pages? Shell 22:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll take this to DRV, but in general, some of these pages were holding dispute related content, some of them were new copys that i was intending to work on and some were a little older but still contained some changes from the previously copied version, changes which i intended to integrate into articles once i get around to it... I'm currently in the middle of 3 disputes that might require arbcom. one of them is already on MEDCOM. As of now, I want those pages back so I can maybe review them and decide which is necessary and which isn't. The POV charges, only make this deletion situation seem far more about something personal than a sincere attempt to clean up wikipedia from dead pages. Jaakobou 22:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
The POV problems means that deletion probably was best here. But don't forget to consider the option of blanking userspace articles. There are articles in my user space I haven't edited for months, but no-one worries about them and they don't turn up on search engines, because I've blanked them. See User:Carcharoth/Gracia Fay Ellwood (search) and User:Carcharoth/Middle-earth in popular culture (search) for examples. I think the latter still appears in searches either because of the title, or because I only blanked it 6 days ago and the Google cache hasn't updated yet - I checked the cached version). Articles or pages that I intend to or am working on, or that are suitable for public consumption (ie. OK to appear in search engines, and they do appear in search engines) are not blanked (examples: , ). Carcharoth (talk) 04:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
There isn't a POV problem on these pages. This is why I'm pretty miffed about the whole thing. Jaakobou 07:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
To clarify, I've been working on a few articles (Israeli-Palestinian conflict) and a few problematic situations keep popping up on material you think is neutral and finished with (sample: current 7 month dispute over a previous compromise version which lasted a full year). After work on several articles turned into a "let's revert Jaakobou" battle, I've taken them to my userspace and progressed the material and upon insertion to articles, it usually stayed (Sample: ). However, articles like Battle of Jenin needed the creation of side articles (in the works) and also a few corrections to current articles, which on some occasions also turned into long term disputes. In general, I'm not sure I HAVE to have all of these user pages, certainly once I inspect what changes I've made in comparison to current articles, I may be able to get along by just copying the material in or keeping it off-site. However, a speedy deletion of some serious editing dabbled with a bad faith assumption and POV and copy-vio claims (on all of these pages?) seem improper and are certainly a hinder to my contributions to the site.
Certainly, JzG could have noted me about his concerns and we would have worked it out. Jaakobou 08:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC) clarification of topic area. Jaakobou 08:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
The pages exist in mainspace and are not protected. They have talk pages. The way we update content is to talk about it on talk pages and then update mainspace. We don't write new articles which better reflect our POV and then move text in wholesale, and none of these was under active development anyway. Guy (Help!) 10:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
As Jaakobou's mentor I'd like to offer a few words. He brought this thread to my attention tonight, and perhaps there's room to reconsider. Yes, it's rare to find worthwhile draft articles in the user space of post-arbitration-ethnic-dispute editors. It's equally rare for such an editor to start contributing his first featured content after arbitration, which is what Jaakobou has done. He's one of the reasons Israel got featured, he restored the featured pictures Image:17th century Central Tibeten thanka of Guhyasamaja Akshobhyavajra, Rubin Museum of Art2.png and Image:Three chiefs Piegan p.39 horizontal.png, and wrote the recent DYK Bli Sodot. Clearly, he's capable of doing solid mainspace work. He tells me he had put a lot of work into those draft articles - finding references etc. - and I'm unable to confirm this because I wasn't aware that these pages existed until after this thread began. Yet his record arguably merits enough good faith for a second look. Would an admin please compare the citations for the deleted draft articles against the current live versions, and if the draft versions are indeed more extensively referenced (which I think they are) then please provide him with copies of the deleted pages, rather than force him without warning to recreate hours of research from scratch. Durova 10:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Some if not all of those fit that criteria. There was certainly no reason for deletion (see ANI for a thread on the subject) Viridae 10:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Per consensus here and the authors request, I have restored those pages which are articles. I didn't restore some material from an old arbitration case and a redirect resulting from a move. If the arb stuff is needed that will have to go through DRV. Viridae 11:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
I absolutely fail to see any consensus for this action. Spartaz 13:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Per absolutely self-evident lack of consensus here and it's pre-existing agenda against me, Viridae has indeed wheel-warred and undeleted the user pages. I'd be interested in knowing why Jaakobou needs two separate copies of battle of Jenin in his userspace when the main article is still editable, but he can answer that at MfD where those articles are now listed. I'm also astonished at the level oiof interest he expresses in forks that he had not edited since last year. Guy (Help!) 11:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
If it's possible to sidestep politics here (both the on-wiki version and the real life sort), my first advice to Jaakobou when I found out about this was that I wished he had kept drafts and research in a text file on his own computer. In such a contentious situation things are prone to misinterpretation. That said--and I have no opinion on the MFD proposals--all I ask is that he get the chance any other editor would have to save a copy of his work on his own system for later reference. That's a reasonable request for an editor who has a good history of sourcing his work. Yes, he's got a strong POV. It's also a notable POV and he provides reliable sources for it. Durova 11:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Absolutely, and had he asked me to email the contents I'd have done so there and then. Guy (Help!) 12:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I think we're all intending to do the right thing and just haven't done the best job of communication. Tough subject, flawed human beings. Durova 18:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Note:
I've now had the chance to review the material/changes in User:Jaakobou/Celebrations and wouldn't mind the deletion of this page. I am very busy at the moment and it will take me about a week to finish examining all the articles - please refresh them all and avoid a speedy deletion of multiple user-pages of my material in the future without previous notice.
A week would be fine - a 5 page MfD is a tad much without any discussions. I'll probably agree the majority of them being deleted once I get a chance to review them.
With respect, Jaakobou 12:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
p.s. some of the changes are very wiki-oriented and a review from a text file is a disaster. Jaakobou 12:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Keep in mind that you can copy/paste from a text file into a wiki edit window, make your changes and hit Preview to be sure it all works right, then copy the new version back into the text file on your own computer. It's a little more cumbersome, but you don't actually have to save the page on wiki. Franamax (talk) 12:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
There's a nice amount of user pages on wiki. With all the POV POV POV!!! accusations, I can't take this mass deletion and following commentary about my supposed intentions with as much good faith as I would have, had I been approached. Jaakobou 12:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
I've went over 3 pages and believe 2 of them should stay in some form. Would appreciate comment from the community if they believe it is necessary that I remove the material off my own wiki user-space and into my own 'on computer' text file. Jaakobou 12:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Looking around the wiki to find comparisons that justify your own actions is really not a good way to go, we're all going to end up with Britney Spears and Pokemon on our user pages, just to be equal ;) I can imagine it's not nice to feel you're being accused of things you aren't actually trying to do, but that's where the simpler solution comes into play - if you keep it all on your own local disk, you can still preview it all on wiki, no search engine will ever find it, and no curious Wikipedian will ever see it and wonder why it's there. It will be yours and yours alone, until you're ready to put it into the mainspace. No-one can accuse you of doing anything wrong with your own property, in your own house, but when you want to store it on the wiki servers, we all get to see it, comment on it, change it, remove it. It's a wiki. If you keep it private, it's all yours. Franamax (talk) 13:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Jaakobu has the right to create draft texts in his userspace, unless those pages are clearly extremely disruptive.
Some people prefer to directly edit wiki pages, some prefer talk page discussion, some prefer to draft in userspace first. If everyone were to enforce their personal preference with admin tools, it would be impossible to edit the wiki altogether. --Kim Bruning (talk) 19:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

IPs blanking their respective talk pages
I do not know if this is the correct area to post my concerns, so if I am in the wrong, please redirect me.
Onto the problem, it does not state on Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines if IPs can or cannot remove warnings from the respective talk page. What I am saying is, well, they shouldn't be allowed to, as they cannot prove they are the only one who uses the IP and therefore the one who the warning was directed to might not see it, so I propose that regarding user talk pages, if the user is an IP, then the do not have the right to blank the page.
I hope I made sense..— Dædαlus / Improve 22:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
The way I see it is this:
If the IP user is the person the warnings are directed at, then removing the warnings proves they've read them, and the warnings have served their purpose.

If the IP user is not the person the warnings are directed at, then the warnings do not apply, and there is no reason not to remove them.

In either case, there's nothing wrong with the IP user removing the warnings. --Carnildo (talk) 22:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, I don't know if this is a problem for admins when they are considering if they need to block an IP? If not I must agree with Carnildo. It would be tricky to enforced such a rule anyway. There are already other problems with multiple users sharing the same IPs that don't have a good solution now, so I'm guessing it's a problem that is hard to solve. =/ --Apis 23:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
It might be better to try and discuss this at the Misplaced Pages:Village pump. --Apis 23:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
See also Misplaced Pages:User page#Removal of comments, warnings and Misplaced Pages talk:User page#Apparently IPs don't count as users, where you'll find links to numerous prior discussions on this. It's come up a number of times, and consensus has repeatedly come out the same: IPs are people, too. – Luna Santin (talk) 03:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
I guess that WP:DRC is also relevant here. —TreasuryTag—t—c 14:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

New pages
Newpagers, when "patrolling" new pages, I often come across a page that someone's had a look at and added a tag about notability etc, but they've not marked it as patrolled. Can we stiffen our resolve on this? Can we make clear that patrolled is patrolled and that if you've added a tag then you've patrolled it...AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 22:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC).
Why not address it with the editor's who are doing it? Sometimes they might forget but you could always mark it yourself. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 03:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

You are aware they don't have to mark them as patrolled aren't you? Viridae 03:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Exactly. Patrolling is not mandatory. And, IMO, worthless. Corvus cornix_talk 05:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
It's not worthless, I had a look and it tells people if the article has been looked at, so others don't waste time checking. Yu don't have to do it though...--Jaeger123 10:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
If someone has tagged a page as possibly non-notable, they may choose not to mark as patrolled so that someone else can take a look and perhaps nominate it for deletion. I am aware that some people use {{notability}} to mean 'probably needs deleting, but I don't want to be the one to get it done'. J Milburn (talk) 14:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
The fact that it's not mandatory is neither here nor there. It's basic courtesy to avoid causing other people un-necessary work, and it's polite, therefore, to mark patrolled pages patrolled. —TreasuryTag—t—c 14:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Did You Know? is 11 hours overdue.
Template:Did_you_know/Next_update is overdue for a change. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 05:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Have we stopped uploading local copies of images from commons when they appear on the main page? Are they now covered by cascading protection? Gimmetrow 05:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Oops, was so busy dealing with Giravegan in Final Fantasy XII that I didn't notice it needed to eb done. It's taken care. Word of warning...I'm a newbie admin, so I may have made a screw up someplace. Then again, there's a first time for everything. *wink* --Bedford 05:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Old unclosed AfD
Fixed Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Gyorn was never closed. An AfD top was placed at the bottom of the entry above it on the AfD log page (now fixed ) causing it to appear to be closed. Could someone close this. BlueAzure (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
I love the easy ones. Good catch Blue. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
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