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Cleveland C‑class High‑importance

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Template:TelevisionStationsProject

I removed this old info-box and replaced it with the template version. I'm putting this here as some information was lost in the transition. --Andy Janata 4 July 2005 05:27 (UTC)

• I've incorporated some of the lost information into the main body text. - 203.218.136.143, July 5, 2005

Edit History

When GusGus moved the page to WJW-TV, and Hinto reverted that, we lost the edit history on WJW -- it is still attached to WJW-TV. Could we perhaps delete WJW and move WJW-TV back as to have easy access to the edit history again? --Andy Janata 19:29, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

• Sorry, I'm new to the moving process. I supposed I should've RfD'd WJW myself first. - Hinto 05:01, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Jim Hale

Anybody know whatever happened to Jim Hale? I've seen him in some Youtube clips from the 70s.

Mjlarochelle (talk) 01:14, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Non-free images

Galleries of purely decorative non-free images are removed from articles where there is no critical commentary on the images themselves, which in this case there is not. The relevant policies are;

• WP:NFCC#3a - "Multiple items are not used if one will suffice; one is used only if necessary."
• WP:NFCC#8 - "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic"
• WP:LOGOS - "Generally, logos should be used only when the logo is reasonably familiar (or when the logo itself is of interest for design or artistic reasons)."

• BKNFCC 07:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with your contention that the images are purely decorative. They are not; they are intended to represent the evolution of the television station's brand over the years.

• RE:WP:NFCC#3a - It is not possible to use only one item if the purpose is to display historical evolution of the station's brand over the years, which is exactly the purpose of the gallery. One item does not suffice.
• RE:WP:NFCC#8 - This point is under dispute, as it is so subjective, it can be taken in any way any editor sees fit. In fact, one of the stated abuses in the discussion is that it was being used as a pretext to remove all non-free images from Misplaced Pages. The sticking point, naturally, is the word "significantly". Still, it looks as if one consensus is that images are not to be used if its use damages in any way the copyright owner's ability to benefit from the image. These are historical images no longer in use; there is no danger to the original copyright holder that his ability to profit from the image would be damaged by its use here.
• RE:WP:LOGOS - This quotation is taken out of context. The full context of the guideline is: "Avoid using a logo in any way that creates an impression that the purpose of its inclusion is to promote something. Generally, logos should be used only when the logo is reasonably familiar (or when the logo itself is of interest for design or artistic reasons)." The guideline cited was put in place to avoid promotional use. The use of the questioned logos in this article are not for such purpose.

Finally, to be clear, you are citing guidelines, not policy, and one of the hallmarks of the guideline is that there is room for a common-sense interpretation. Given the purpose of the logo galleries, I believe that common sense allows for them. As such, I am restoring the images. dhett 17:49, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

And I am removing them again, pointing out that WP:NFCC is policy, not a guideline. You are possibly confusing it with WP:NFC. Even without NFCC, the logos aren't even discussed in the text (all the article says is "WXEL/WJW-TV (WJKW-TV) has used many logos throughout its history") which means they're clearly decorative. BKNFCC 22:28, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Many of these fonts are also HISTORY, and they have a STORY. They should be look at on a case-by-case basis, not deleted wholesale. In my opinion, if you had your way, there wouldn't be ang graphics AT ALL, not only on Misplaced Pages, but also on the internet as a whole, In fact, you would probably think that only one font should be used, and that the internet woul be limited to post-graduate topics. Sorry, but I am being BOLD by saying what I think. And as Dhett mentioned here, Misplaced Pages is a consensus "society", not a totalitarian regime. -- azumanga (talk) 04:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

It also has rules, which we call policies. And you are not being bold, you are being incivil as well. BKNFCC 06:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

These historical logos do not violate policy (which I mistakenly referred to as guidelines before). There is no policy limiting the number of non-free images that an article can use. There is no policy governing the use of historical logos, which do not endanger the benefits of copyright protection. I am in the process of adding commentary to the logos. dhett 07:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

You are correct that there is technically no limit to non-free images - but the policy is quite clear that it must be minimal use. However, you are incorrect about the logos not violating policy as the article originally stood - they were clearly decorative because there was no critical commentary. Whether the logos are historical are not is a moot point; if they're copyrighted, they're non-free. Nevertheless, your addition of commentary to them may fix that problem for some of the logos, so thank you. BKNFCC 09:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

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