Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:45, 16 August 2005

Eventual Adminship

I thought it might be nice to keep a tally on my edits and things, so that i might some day soon get to petition for adminship, and actually get it/ heres the kates tpool summary for me (kates tool link gone)Gavin the Chosen 10:12, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Adminship is not that closely related to the number of edits you have. And in absolute numbers you definitely have more edits than even the most strict RFA voters require (probably more than 2000?). I advise you to remove the counter and this section (feel free to delete my comment with it). In the past the community has frowned on editors that obsess over adminship and keep updated edit counts. — David Remahl 10:30, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, i suppose that might be wise, so its gone, it was supposed to be forthe sake of conveiniance for others, but i suppoe if they aee among those who prevail among giving authority, then they would akready have access to that. good advise. thanks!Gavin the Chosen 10:33, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Welcome

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, the greatest encyclopedia on Earth! You seem to be off to a good start. Hopefully you will soon join the vast army of Wikipediholics!

You may wish to review the welcome page, tutorial, and stylebook, as well as the avoiding common mistakes and Misplaced Pages is not pages.

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By the way, an important tip: To sign comments on talk pages, simply type four tildes, like this: ~~~~. This will automatically add your name and the time after your comments.

∞Who?¿? 07:58, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

reasons

Hello to you too. I was just a bit surprised, that's all. Keep in mind, though, that time stamps are hard to interpret unless you know what time zone a person is in. I don't need to know, I assume it was early morning. Cheers and happy editing, --MarkSweep 19:31, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

yeah. it was early morn. enjoy life! fraks like me make it intersting at least.Gavin the Chosen 19:38, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Fahnord

Your fnord-inserting mission... what's it supposed to accomplish?

• People who know about them won't think it's particularly funny or clever to see them in articles.
• People who don't know about them will be puzzled—Misplaced Pages's not a Discordian temple, so it's not likely they're eager to get enlightened either.

Also, obviously, spurious comments like these are likely to just be reverted. Are you going to edit war over putting them in? Doesn't seem like it's worth it.

There's no good reason to insert them and every reason not to. Misplaced Pages's not the Encyclopedia Discordia. We're here to collaborate with other people, not to push clever jokes (or, if you like, push a religious creed...) Suppose the Muslems inserted PBUH after every mention of Muhammad's name? JRM · Talk 21:02, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

but this is merely innocent, and it doewnst even show up on articles. if i kept it in subheads and blank space, it woudlnt even bother the editing . can i contunue if i behave with them? ( as in, no four hundred fnords for no reason, four at most)Gavin the Chosen 21:05, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, whatever you do don't sign them. See Misplaced Pages:Ownership of articles. Even if it doesn't show up, you shouldn't put your name in an article anywhere. People copy these articles, and it wouldn't be very professional to have the name of a Wikipedian in there.

Which is the second point: people copy these articles, and it wouldn't be very professional to have fnords in them. You can put them in, but don't expect them to stick; people are going to be removing them, and there's not much you can put forth to argue against that. Wikipedians are all volunteers, but that doesn't mean we don't take some pride in the image of the encyclopedia. Sticking fnords everywhere doesn't help. JRM · Talk 21:09, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

im just out to have some harmless fun. hope you can tell i dont mean anything destructive.

howss about i keep them t talk pages? Gavin the Chosen 21:13, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry, if I thought you were being destructive I would be much less friendly. :-P

There are lots of places on Misplaced Pages where you can have fun... but it's true, most of them don't involve editing articles. Visit the Department of Fun, read some unusual articles and check out some of the bad jokes and other deleted nonsense we come across every day.

And if you really want to see some fine nonsense, visit Uncyclopedia, Wikpedia's bastard sister. If you like jokes, there's the Jokebook on Wikibooks... that's all the fun places I can think of from the top of my head.

If your idea of fun is running around inserting fnords on talk pages, go ahead... I don't expect many people to get it or be amused, but it's a free wiki. JRM · Talk 21:20, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I replied to your question on my talk page, but having read this discussion, let me quickly add that I don't think it's a good idea, period. It accomplishes nothing and you'll likely be reverted, in which case it would be quite unwise to go on. Meanwhile:

You can help improve the articles listed below! This list updates frequently, so check back here for more tasks to try. (See Misplaced Pages:Maintenance or the Task Center for further information.)

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Help counter systemic bias by creating new articles on important women.

Help improve popular pages, especially those of low quality.

Cheers, --MarkSweep 21:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Admin Warning

Misplaced Pages is not a place for "harmless fun" as you put it. You have already wasted a lot of my time with the fnord thing. Now, while I do believe in Misplaced Pages:Don't bite the newbies, you must also be willing to avoid disrupting this project.

No more fnord's. And make sure everything you add to articles is something you'd like to see in print at your school library next week when you're studying for a test. Uncle Ed 21:31, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

well , what about hte residential school thing? what i added was accurate, and fnordless.Gavin the Chosen 21:33, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Then add it again. As I recall, it was sloppy. It might help if you posted first at talk:residential school and listed the facts you are planning to add to the article. I don't mean to be terse and cold; it's just my writing style when I'm rushed. Cheers. Uncle Ed 17:45, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Fnords

Re. to edits at Poser and comment on my talk page, yes - adding 'fnord' comments to articles is vandalism; it adds nothing. Furthermore, not all browsers correctly render comments and some display them as shown. Not so good. Also, it's a waste of resources (including yours!) - Pete C 21:36, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Its Unanimous, my Fnording days are over ( exccept on Xmas, talk pages ( pretty please?) and my birthday)Gavin the Chosen 21:37, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you! :-) - Pete C 21:39, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Suggestion - edit your signature so that it contains a fnord. DS 18:51, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

good idea ... signature test Gavin the Chosen 18:56, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

E-mail

Gavin, would you check your e-mail, please? SlimVirgin 21:40, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

pardon

Please check the time stamps on what you object to. youll find that i did stop when told. Gavin the Chosen 21:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Pardon me, but id say its been longer then fifteen minutes now, and it stilll reads me as blocked. please hwlp..

I've unblocked your IP address (I think). Please check if you can log in now. --MarkSweep 04:17, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!Gavin the Chosen 04:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

SAM2 broadcaster

Just got yer message. Nice work on the SAM2 broadcaster article! I've just made a few tidies there - hope that's okay. Welcome back to the Wiki :-) - Pete C 08:26, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

thank for the kind wordsGavin the Chosen 15:05, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Use of the word racist in residential school system

You wrote:

the residential school system (and indeed the entire Gradual Civilization Act) are blatantly racist

Whether I agree with your point of view is irrelevant. What matters is that this is an encyclopedia. You can't use the word racist as a synonym for "bad" because articles here must be neutral.

You can say that one race or ethnic group is getting different treatment than another. You can also quote someone who calls this sort of thing "racist". But then you have to give a link or other reference to the source. I won't revert this, but you need to fix it. Uncle Ed 20:49, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Ill get on that, but tell me, does not attempting cultural aassimilation and erasure seem rascist? was itnot racisism when Saddam houssain al tikriti gassed a bunch of kurds? Gavin the Chosen 20:51, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but Misplaced Pages doesn't have to say so. It just has to list the facts and let them speak for themselves. That's what NPOV means. ~~ N (t/c) 21:07, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Sources #http://www.shannonthunderbird.com/residential_schools.htm

1. http://www.united-church.ca/residentialschools/vision.shtm
2. http://collections.ic.gc.ca/shingwauk/Section4/section4_1_5.html
3. http://www.darknightpress.org/index.php?i=print&article=7
4. http://www.bcma.org/public/bc_medical_journal/BCMJ/2001/march_2001/ResidentialSchoolSyndrome.asp - healing subsection

Gavin the Chosen 21:03, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

then i will change it to "Has been called blatenly racist by native groups and others"

hows that? Gavin the Chosen 21:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

AFAIK, should be fine as long as you spell "blatantly" right. ~~ N (t/c) 21:29, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, good! I like has been called X by Y - well done, Gabriel (er, I mean Gavin). Uncle Ed 03:33, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Sockpuppet issue

I have analyzed your history in response to your request for me to help you deal with the sockpuppet claim that others have raised against you. You and Gabrielsimon both write sloppy and "stylistically similar", thats part of the evidence against you. Also, all four of you are interested in fiction and fantasy, more specifically anime and vampires. Nevertheless, you, Gabrielsimon and the other sockpuppets have written on the same article very few times. Gabrielsimon, Khulhy, Ketrovin, and you meet the Misplaced Pages definition of a "sockpuppet," although you might just have multiple personalities :-). This is because your oddly similar sockpuppets show up and edit after Gabrielsimon gets blocked. Vandalism reports against your sockpuppets were also filed. Anyway, you still don't seem to be a major threat because the sockpuppeting does not go as far as persistant bocking circumvention, 3RR rule circumventions, and double voting. You should choose one name and go with it, probably Gabrielsimon. You will have to stop any vandalism, pick one name, and resume normal wikistuff such as writting articles like SAM2 broadcaster. Multiple names may effectively erase anything others think of you(as you "start anew"), and may let you edit when blocked, but it is against the Misplaced Pages Way. You may have other things to contribute and I hope that you do so but this just has to stop.Voice of All(MTG) 23:20, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

I don't even have to check the contributions, anymore. Just a look at the way you write makes it obvious enough that it's you, Gabriel. Same spelling errors, same grammatical errors — it's all very distinctive and making me rapidly cross the line from annoyance to anger. If this keeps on, I'm afraid I'll be switching my suggestion for a Wikivacation to one of those supporting a permanent ban. --khaosworks • talk • contribs 23:42, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

I thought that Misplaced Pages was not able to "ban" users, just block them.Voice of All(MTG)

A ban is an indefinite block. People sloppily use "ban" and "block" interchangeably, however. JRM · Talk 00:45, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

LOL, of course it's the same person. So if one gets blocked for cause, you can go ahead and block the other one. But until them, let him play with his puppet. When he writes as Gavin, his style improves a bit. And it's the writing that matters. (Guess how many different sock puppets *I* have? And can you tell me which bureaucrat is really a sock puppet?) Go easy man, go easy. Uncle Ed 03:31, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, but I never heard of Gabriel, I had to treat the matter as such so I did the research. He attempted to befriend me and RyanFreisling and then gave me a message saying that he was new and didn't know what sockpuppeting was but that he was accused of it. It turned out that he was not a newbie, but at least I made sure. You already know that they are sockpuppets, so it seems obvious to you. What a strange sockpuppet though...Voice of All(MTG) 03:50, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

If he wants a fresh start, I have no problem with that. I have no problems with legitimate sockpuppets - or alternte accounts - as long as they don't get disruptive. However, it's the denial, the deception and the disengenuity I can't stand. --khaosworks • talk • contribs 04:40, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I have tried so many other things in orderto ge away fro a certeain user who folowed my origionbal account around. I only got blocked once witht his one, on a misunderstanding. I have never lied about who and what ma, i simple didnt responcd to allegations, forthe most part, and ofcourse im going to respond in the way i responded. i have taken lessons learned into account, anf ave tried to move on from the other people ( who were in sebere disgreeement with me) , a fresh start. pleasekeep me as unseen as possible. I really couldnt handle the stress. Also, i promised to abandon the other people i was and stick with one account, so i made this one.Gavin the Chosen 05:08, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

You have lied about who you are, that's the point. This account went to User:Voice of All(MTG) and asked him to help prove you weren't a sockpuppet, you even left a message as User:Gabrielsimon to try - very unsuccessfully - to pretend you were different people. Again, if you want a new start, that's good, and I heartily encourage that, but at least be honest. As long as you continue to be a good editor, you'll not run into trouble. --khaosworks • talk • contribs 05:28, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

if there was any other way to get away from people who hold vendettas i have tried it, this eemed the only remaining way.Gavin the Chosen 05:30, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I suggest: 1. Don't give people an excuse to have vendettas. When people suggest you correct your behavior, do it and do it that instant. Don't keep violating 3RR, or making sockpuppets, or tampering with evidence. 2. When people are needless assholes, ignore them. Don't respond in ways that will make them madder, and will make non-assholes mad too. ~~ N (t/c) 05:34, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

As i said before, in order to keep editing, i promised to more or less kill the others that i made, l;eaving this one to be the sole account, and if you noticce, i havnt actually violated any rule ( except graffitti, which i was unaware ofd, and was a misunderstanding) All i wish is to be able to make a clean start, youll notice i took the RFC advise under advisement, and i even found sources for an argument. I never knowingly gave the vendetta holder a reason to hold one, and so he only way to make that user leave me in peace seemed to be to shed my face and get a new one. I do not mean to offend anyonewith dishonesty, but to maintain the cover ( sorta like the wikipedia witnessp rotection program i guess) one must have some deniabillity, i suppose.Gavin the Chosen 05:38, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Not that you haven't improved in behavior (and spelling), but do you think this will change anything? You are still effectively Gabrielsimon, and so you still have an RfC and RfAr against you, and DreamGuy will still have a "vendetta" against you, and your actions have only served to severely irk all of us. Furthermore, I cannot believe you were unaware of a rule against graffiti - surely you've read Misplaced Pages:Vandalism? ~~ N (t/c) 05:49, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

actually , i hant. nor have i, as of this writing, though i shall , shortly any way, has this account done anything wrong other then that mistalke? methinks not ( and i have managed to find a way to leave Fnord~s everfywhere withut vandalising) i AM still who i am, as it were, yes, but without someone (who i wont name) harassing me, theres no stress, and i can be as good an editor as i can, even better then the othners, becasue i have learned from my first persona's mistakes. perhaps RFA peoplewill see that i am only tryingf to get away from harassment, and stress.Gavin the Chosen 05:52, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, let me get this clear, you've been here how many months, been pointed to the page, falsely claimed it was OK to go past 3RR if you were undoing "vandalism", accused me of vandalism, erased a direct link to the section of the Vandalism page showing that your actions were wrong, and you now say you've never read the page?!?! For crying out loud, don;'t you thikn you should have like about four five months ago when you were constantly vandalising my page and you claimed it wasn't? Or when you accused me of vandalism in the RfC? Or... GAH!... unbelievable. You are either lying now or you haven;t bothered to read the very page explaining the situation involved in a large number of your edit controversies. DreamGuy 06:42, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

What I was posting on your talk page bnack then was not vandlism. you claimed it was in anger, aned in refusal to read it, or asnwer the simple question, butthats a long gone now. simple point of fact, aside fom the graffitti thing, which was an accident of misunderstanding, I have never vandalized, no matter what name I was usingGavin the Chosen 09:56, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Uh, but A) Yes your actions were vandalism, b) you falsely accused me of vandalism multiple times as 3RR justifications and etc., which you would have known were incorrect if you'd read the policies that I gave you links to right then adn there, and c) How can you claim to know what was vandalism or not when you've admitted you haven't even read the vandalism policy? Read the policy. Admit your mistakes. For someone claiming to want a fresh start you sure insist on trying to pretend you were blameless even though by your admission you didn't even read the policy related to what was going on to know whether you were right or not. Have you read the policy yet? Go read the policy. You'll learn you were wrong. DreamGuy 12:16, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I have even invited Slimvirgin to police my actions, you may as well if you like as my Ed poor. idont mind passive scrutiny, i mind the kind that causes thingas ( such as insultingme or baiting) andthen reports what hppenswhwn i lose patience. that is what i wanted to get away fromGavin the Chosen 05:59, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, could we have an example of some of this baiting? ~~ N (t/c) 06:01, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Heres one, though i am trying to forge, DreamGuy reates a fork in articles, then does whath e pleases( vampire, vampire fiction) and then when poeople try to undo hat he did, which he did without consensus, he starts jsustifying it 's re doing bty there now being a fork, which when people remove, rfesults in him getting indignant, etc... which leads to a revert war, then when user gabrielsimon got blocked, Dreamguy saidthere was consensus, and no one was left to contest that, such duolisitous actions annoy me like nothing else. this iswhy i made me, to get away from him, and his annoyancesGavin the Chosen 06:08, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

See, now that this page has been found, the user page was just altered, in an uncalled for manner by the vendetta holding user.Gavin the Chosen 06:22, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

DO NOT DELETE COMMENTS FROM MY TALK PAGE.

I should think you have been warned about this enough. ~~ N (t/c) 06:38, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

didnt do it on purpose.Gavin the Chosen 06:39, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry then. ~~ N (t/c) 06:39, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

all good.Gavin the Chosen 06:40, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

You should still provide some indication on your user page that you're Gabrielsimon. It's quite important. ~~ N (t/c) 06:40, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

The idea was to make DreamGuy leave me alone, so that i could have some time of peacefull editing, if i put that there , then he would pouince and begin harrassment again, as was done with other Idents, Though i wil put the honest reason Gavins is named Gavin.Fari comprimise?Gavin the Chosen 06:42, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't follow your logic. DreamGuy already knows who you are. As your original identity is the subject of an RfC and RfAr, it's probably a good idea to let people know you're the same guy. ~~ N (t/c) 06:44, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

thers no end to the stress is there? All I asked was to be left in peace.Gavin the Chosen 06:47, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

All you need to do to be left in peace is to live up to your mistakes and stop making more. You don't have a fresh start by hiding under some new name, you have a fresh start by making a fresh start. Admit you made mistakes. Read the policies when people refer them to you. Stop blaming other people for your mistakes. Work with people instead of against them. If you want a fresh start, go into your RfC and RfAr and admit what you did, apologize, promise to do better, and actually do better. It's simple. You may envision me tracking you down to just harass you, but I only ever deal with you when you jump into an article I'm on or when someone catches you doing something fishy and I help sort it out. Be a good editor and I won't have anything to complain about. DreamGuy 06:59, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Lexamine this edit history, and ignore the early graffitti block, and then tell me if i have done anything wrong.Gavin the Chosen 07:01, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Other than lying and pretending to be a new user, removing tag off your user page proving you a sockpuppet, and currently going on the village pump to claim it's a "witch hunt" to point out that you have used three sock puppets recently and so obviously someone claiming to not be a sockpuppet cannot be assumed to be honest because you weren't? But, OK, whatever... if you start taking responsibility RIGHT NOW, forgetting about ten minutes ago, all is good as far as I am concerned. Throw yourself on the mercy on the RfAr people and let them sort it out. Fly the straight and narrow while the evidence is presented and debated. DreamGuy 07:17, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I never said that it was a witch hunt for me, i said it was a witc h hunt as far as Devilbat nd whoever else it was are concerned., as for re,movinmg the sock puppet tag, it gotprotected in its curent state, so i think that i have the support ofthoes in saying im not a puppet. any hoo, i nmade this new me to be able to edit in a relaxed environment, and well, id ask thaty you dont undo that by makinbg bad stuff happen.Gavin the Chosen 07:21, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

You still have to answer for everything you did as Gabrielsimon. This includes your arbitration case. You cannot get a fresh start by changing your name. Kindly cease this charade, and you'll find yourself better off. ~~ N (t/c) 07:26, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

heres no and never was intented to be a cbharade.i just wanteds a rather good, relazing time, and so far, expept for the accidnjet with graffitti, i have it, this should, in wht i have read, also assist me, becuse ihave not done anything wrong as who i am now, hepl me with the arebcom ppl. i havnt done any warring, or anything, in fact, i even Created an article.Gavin the Chosen 07:29, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

You just don't get it, do you? You have a different name, but you're firmly established as the same person. I don't know for sure, but I doubt this will exempt you at all from your arbitration case. ~~ N (t/c) 07:33, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration is attached to the person, not the account. Changing accounts is not a way to reset your history as an editor at Misplaced Pages. Everything that Gabrielsimon has done is what Gavin the Chosen has done.  — Saxifrage | ☎ 07:40, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

so

peoplee went all over my website, but no one topped 5to readaanything? >>Sniffle<< so unfair!Gavin the Chosen 07:06, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I read some of your stories and looked at the pictures. And it confirms just what I thought: when you spend some time on something and take it easy you produce great stuff. Try that on Misplaced Pages too – spend a few minutes extra on every post. Think about the emotions it will evoke, double-check your spelling (choose a larger font if you can't see). Try to achieve your goals as easily as possible and figure out ways to do it that do not upset DreamGuy, me, and everyone else. — David Remahl 07:36, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Especially, respect WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. Don't add statements that imply a moral judgment, or treat something unproven as fact. This is intended as only a friendly reminder. I'm sure you can be a great asset, as many articles in your area of interest are in need of a good deal of work. ~~ N (t/c) 07:40, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

erggg...

not really to sure how or why, but i thought me gettingto be an admin, and then helping others who have simmilar difficulties as myself ( being stubborn at hte most inopportune momnets) might be good, otherwise, i would liketo apologize for any wrongoing i might have done.Gavin the Chosen 10:36, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe in the future. Long into the future. I can tell you for sure that even if you stay on your best behavior from now on there is no chance that you will become an admin within 3 months. That is impossible. After that, yeah, it is certainly possible if you make an effort. But announcing your intentions on the talk page is not going to serve your cause. There are some people who will consider it a provocation. Peace. — David Remahl 10:42, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

In fact, I promise you that I will personally nominate you when I feel there is a good chance that your nomination will succeed. How about that? :-). — David Remahl 10:42, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Cool!... alwas wanted to be respectable... ( might get me a few frineds too)Gavin the Chosen 10:44, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I think you become an admin when you've found a lot of friends :-), not the other way around (adminship probably buys you more 'enemies' than friends). Remember, best behavior now. And no more puppets! (Just ignore the ArbCom thing. If you don't cause more problems from now on, they will find in your favour.) — David Remahl 10:46, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

okee dokee on all counts.Gavin the Chosen 10:48, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

The best way to apologize for your behaviour is to make amends. Keep out of trouble, own up to your own faults when confronted with them, and play nice with other people. That's the best apology you can give me, or any other person. Good luck. --khaosworks (talk• contribs) 11:38, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Besides, you don't need to be an admin to help people. Being an admin only gives you the ability to delete articles and to block people. That's pretty much it. We don't have any greater authority than anyone else, just the ability to enforce it. The best way to become an admin is to prove you are worthy of that trust and power. So do the RC patrol, keep an eye out for vandalism, help broker compromises. The more people look at your edits and think, "hey, this guy could be trusted," the more likely you'll get support for an RfA. I never aspired to adminship - someone nominated me, and convinced me to accept it. Don't worry too much about it, is what I'm saying. If you're good enough, people will recognize it. --khaosworks (talk• contribs) 11:43, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the advise, i beleive i will attempt to take it to heart. ( hopefully without a coronory episode)Gavin the Chosen 11:45, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Tempest Smith

its uopsetting, but pleae go to that article ,and help me make it better. Its upsettting to me, and frankly i cant make it NPOV, becasue its upsettingGavin the Chosen 11:32, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Sure. I'll try to find some information about it. Thanks for coming to me asking for help. — David Remahl 11:40, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I have copyedited the article, removed some unecessary headings and added the stub notice. If you want to start a new article, but don't have the necessary material, it would be a good idea to leave suggestions on the talk page rather than in the body of the main article. People will add headings as they add material.illWill 12:17, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I've done what I can now. There aren't that many citeable sources apart from the Detroit News articles...But I think it is an acceptable article as it stands now. Very sad subject matter :-(. — David Remahl 12:19, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

i know, thats hwy i couldnt do it myself, but, it is importnat, because this sort of thing can not be forgottenGavin the Chosen 12:21, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I would be happy to work with you on this article. This sickens me. ~~ N (t/c) 23:44, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for the accidental rollback of Ed Poor's edit

All I can say is, my mouse slipped! I've put it back the way it was. Cheers, FreplySpang (talk) 18:15, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

New identity of user:Gabrielsimon.

Looks like Gavin accidentally removed the 'new identity' tag above. I've replaced it for him. Because of his recent self improvement, I know that Gabriel/Gavin does not want to create the impression that he is changing user names to hide from his past, so I imagine it was just a slip of the mouse. - Chairboy 15:24, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I was going to move it to the top of the page, but i forgot to compete the procedure.Gavin the Chosen 15:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

as for why

i thinkj its called trying for a clean, fresh start. i dislike conflict. hopefull y thats understandable, please see my talk page for more details.Gavin the Chosen 05:22, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

That looks kind of like an admission of sockpuppeting. If he admitted doing so to you over email we should change the tag from suspected sock puppet to proven.DreamGuy 06:21, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, as he admits it on his talk page now, it's a definite. DreamGuy 06:29, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

He's not actually a sockpuppet (or one that isn't allowed) unless he's pretending to be two people at once e.g. on talk pages, or during a vote, or in order to violate 3RR. If he has simply switched user names, then he's acting within policy. SlimVirgin 06:37, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

OK, then we label Gabrielsimon as a sockpuppet of the new one... right? DreamGuy 06:44, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Well, so long as he doesn't use more than one account dishonestly, there's no sockpuppetry that's against policy. See Misplaced Pages:Sock puppet. I'll put a note on Gabrielsimon that it's no longer in use, and I'm watching the contribs to make sure he doesn't start it up again (or any other). He has promised me he will edit with only one account. SlimVirgin 06:54, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, if people wouldnt miomd using thier adminstrative magic, delete that account. or tag it "abandoned" or some such.Gavin the Chosen 06:46, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Ed, I've protected Gavin's user page because people keep putting the sock puppet tag on it. I'm in touch with him and have been monitoring things to make sure they don't go wrong again. The graffiti situation was disappointing and I've told him this is very much his last chance. He's been given a lot of slack, and I think he deserves a chance to create a new account and a fresh start, but if the old behavior returns, then I would say he's used up all his chances. Let me know what you think. SlimVirgin 06:54, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Of course there's still the matter of his RfC and RfAr... It seems to me that is he wants a "fresh start" he should be arguing for it as part of the RfAr process and not just doing it right now... tht's quite bizarre. DreamGuy 06:51, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

as politely as possible, I do not recall asking your opinion.Gavin the Chosen 06:52, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

The arbcom will apply whatever sanctions there are to him regardless of the name of his user account. SlimVirgin 06:54, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Here is my opinion. DreamGuy should avoid all further communication with Gav/Gab. Leave it to Slim and me. Gavin gets a fresh start, and Slim and I will nudge him with messages and user blocks as needed.

The deal is up if (a) any admin tells Slim or me that we're not handling the matter correctly (a "no confidence" vote or veto) or if G wants out of the deal.

Kind of a grassroots parole, so we needn't bother the arbcom.

Rationale. In good faith, Gabrielsimon has freely admitted using a sockpuppet account and has responded well to Ed Poor's guidance in it. He stopped fnording. He made his first NPOV edit! This is the kind of repentance the community wants to encourage. It will set a trend. Uncle Ed 13:54, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I don't mind not talking to him of course, but then you need to realize he likes to post on my talk page and gets highly offended when I don't respond. And of course there's several articles I routinely check that he has a habit of being on. Some sort of ground rules?

Actually, I'd also love to take a bit of a Wikivacation, I've been spending far too many hours here, but then it's because I've been on the lookout for people like Gabe and that notorious blocked user trying to pull stunts, as a lot seem to be going on lately. If you and SlimVirgin say you're on top of that stuff I'll try to lose my Misplaced Pages bookmark for a while and let things run their courses for a while. And maybe email me if you see anything important on my talk page? DreamGuy 14:41, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I will teach Gabriel/Gavin not to annoy you. Uncle Ed 14:49, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good. However you think you can get it to work. Best of luck. Seeya for a bit. DreamGuy 14:57, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

In that case, I too will stay out of it. Best wishes. ~~ N (t/c) 22:17, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

As a further suggestion, Gavin, I think it would be best all around if you recuse yourself from the conversation DreamGuy & I are having about Mythology. (See my talk page for details.) -- llywrch 18:38, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Welcome, I guess

I see you've changed names, so welcome to this new one. Take care, D. J. Bracey (talk) 22:46, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Gabriel, it really appears that you're staking out a new start on here. Good luck man! - grubber 11:15, 2005 August 10 (UTC)

thank you both!Gavin the Chosen 14:26, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

As I said, you have knowledge to offer to Misplaced Pages and its your choice whether you are going to use it or not. Since you seemed to have dropped the "charade" and starting additional contructive edits, I don't have any problems with you. I agree that you and DreamGuy shouldn't bother each other. Keep of the good work. Cheers!Voice of All(MTG) 20:45, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Welcome, and I wish you a long history of constructive edits. I echo the above suggestions to steer clear of DreamGuy. You guys have an unfortunate history and should ideally simply avoid each other, as hard as that may be. Remember, time spent fighting other users doesn't make the encyclopedia any better. I think the best thing to do is simply be the best editor you can be. Friday 04:43, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Uncle Ed

Hi! No your comments weren't out of line. I think Ed has made some mistakes that shouldn't be ignored, so I won't support him by saying they shouldn't be looked at. Still, I'm sure (and I hope) he'll stay with Misplaced Pages and contribute, much like you or I do. All the best. --Scimitar 21:19, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Community relations

Gabriel, please stick to articles you know something about, and completely avoid talking to DreamGuy. He doesn't like you, and the contact annoys him.

Just keep focused on making suggestions about the articles and making edits to the articles.

If an edit of yours is reverted, please come and tell me about it. Same if a comment of yours is ignored.

If you follow my advice, you will have a smooth time in your cool new account. But if you go back to your old ways, I will not be able to protect you. (You see how my life is hanging by a thread, right? ;-) Help me to help you! Uncle Ed 00:09, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

i think i can liken you to damecles, my friend.Gavin the Chosen 00:11, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Putting suspected or proven sockpuppet tags on pages is not the sole province of admins. What matters is whether there is evidence to back it up, and you dispute that at the evidence page. Staying away from DreamGuy means staying away, and you really should stick by your promises. If he's over the line, let someone else handle it. You still seem to have a severe difficulty trusting other editors to step in. --khaosworks (talk• contribs) 01:11, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Stop removing other users' comments. It's quite simple. I don't care how mad you get at DreamGuy. Just knock it off. android79 03:35, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Block

Gavin, there has been a complaint about your removal of another editor's post from a talk page. As you know, our agreement was that this wouldn't happen again. It also seems odd that you're following DreamGuy's edits when you said you didn't want to interact with him anymore. You've been blocked for 24 hours until we can work out how best to proceed. SlimVirgin 06:14, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

SlimVirgin is right. And no one else would be given so much latitude, but you seem to be a good fellow who wants to learn the rules. You are welcome back after the block expires. Uncle Ed 10:21, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

... sorry, lost my head.Gavin the Chosen 10:47, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Question: Do you see it coming just before you lose your head? If so, just turn off the computer for a couple of hours (more than 1, less than 24). Also, don't follow DreamGuy around might help. Keep cool :-). — David Remahl 10:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

i will follow your advise. May i sggest that i might get a few days for this, to remindm e that im not to a ct like such a fool?Gavin the Chosen 10:54, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

No, you do not get a few days. You will be blocked if you don't take it easy. You will be blocked for a few days, and the ArbCom might make it longer than that. You have been given plenty of chances — now you must start behaving. Thanks. — David Remahl 11:02, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Some people get moments of clairity, like ephiphaniues, i get tje opposite, moments of stupidity. i shiuold try hardewrto learn to see them coming0, btw, not an excyusem, just an ovbservation, i know damned well i know i did d someting stupid..Gavin the Chosen 11:04, 11 August 2005 (UTC) Please re read my proposal it is, in fact, a proposal to block me for 48 - 75 hoursGavin the Chosen 11:04, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Sure, we can do that.. (Strictly speaking, it is not policy to enforce wikivacations, but I will ignore all rules if you want to.) Just say the word and I'll block you for a while. — David Remahl 11:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

its good tha im bvlocked for now, i have writing contracts to perform and jobinterviews to prep for. wooo... lolGavin the Chosen 15:26, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm off

I wanted to let you know that I will discontinue editing for this site, and that you were a good friend since I have been here. D. J. Bracey (talk) 23:00, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I should hope you wont let people of lower quality win.Gavin the Chosen 00:23, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

uhh

i accidentally got autoblacked... was trying to figurre out how long i had lefet and i accidentally hit me a red link... (red face)Gavin the Chosen 00:23, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I believe in your sincerity. Below is the suspension info you need. Uncle Ed 14:25, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

1. 16:07, August 11, 2005 Chmod007 blocked "User:Gavin the Chosen" with an expiry time of 48 hours (self-imposed)
2. 16:07, August 11, 2005, Chmod007 blocked Gavin the Chosen (expires 16:07, August 13, 2005) (contribs) (unblock) (self-imposed)

You can check Special:Ipblocklist to see if you're still blocked. Note that all times are UTC, so if you're not sure of the time zone conversion, just leave yourself a note here and you'll see the current server time. Uncle Ed 14:25, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Hint: You can edit again one day and 2 hours from now. Uncle Ed 14:28, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

aboput vandals

Thanks, frelysp

You're welcome! FreplySpang (talk) 10:30, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

a suggestion for the developers, please pass this on

what if when blocked, you actualyl CANT edit anything ,aside from your talk page? then it would be as if everythings protecte, becasue instead of Edit this p

Serial probation

Fred Bauder (talk · contribs), an arbitrator, left this on User talk:Gabrielsimon:

Please look at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Gabrielsimon/Workshop#Serial_probation and see if you think you can live with it. I am assuming you are very young and can rapidly learn to meet Misplaced Pages's expectations. Fred Bauder 16:06, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

~~ N (t/c) 16:32, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Just a bit of friendly (I hope) advice. It's entirely possible that you'll be blocked for some period of time, whether or not you want to be. I believe one of the functions of the ArbCom is to do such things when they feel the circumstances warrant it. It's possible that you were being offered a deal better than one that may come later. I would suggest you consider it more before turning it down. Friday (talk) 18:33, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

PS. I don't think you're helping your case here. You're brushing off continuing blockable behavior by calling it a "misunderstanding", and you're asserting that you will improve your behavior in the future. You've already had lots of time to learn to follow the rules here. Getting blocked (however temporarily) is a sign you've made a major mistake. Many editors manage to edit here for years and never get blocked, and you've been blocked probably 10 times or so in a few months. You had many chances to accept lesser sanctions, which have fallen apart due to continued "misunderstandings". Now, the Arbitration Committee gets to decide what happens to you.

I think you could help your case tremendously by accepting responsibility for your rulebreaking. If you agreed to what they're suggesting, people would see it as a sign of good will. You could spend the duration of the time by reading policies and guidelines, and making sure you'll fully prepared to be a good Wikicitizen when you return to editing. You could even work on articles in your own sandbox, and merge the content in after the block expires. Wouldn't you find it less displeasing to agree to the ArbCom suggestion voluntarily, rather than waiting for something to be imposed on you against your will? Friday (talk) 19:04, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

i have posted an explainaion of why i call it a misunderstanding, and i would porefer to negociate with the arbitrators.Gavin the Chosen 19:12, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Then I still urge you to admit wrongdoing, as it may help you negotiate. So far you're talking about it on the talk page. Nothing wrong with that, but I believe they're waiting for an official response from you in Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Gabrielsimon/Workshop#Proposed remedies, under "Comment by parties". I think you should think carefully about how you respond. Ask yourself, what penalties WOULD you be willing to accept? I think some kind of agreement not to edit articles for some period of time would help you. Maybe you could even try to work out some deal where you were allowed to edit article talk pages, but not the articles themselves. Just a suggestion. Friday (talk) 19:29, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

You may edit any section of Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Gabrielsimon/Workshop under comments by parties. Fred Bauder 00:02, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Block

Gavin, you've been blocked for 24 hours for disruption because of this edit, , which is a violation of the agreement that you would stop deleting other users' posts. SlimVirgin 06:07, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Hes not supposed to talk to or about me any more, i thought it was warrented.Gavin the Chosen 06:07, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

It's never warranted to break an agreement.  — Saxifrage | ☎ 07:38, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Sigh... i honestly thought the circumstances were extenuating, sorry.Gavin the Chosen 07:42, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Here's the best trick to deciding whether to make an edit or not: if you're not sure, choose not to make the edit and you can trust that an other editor will come along and do it for you if it's warranted. This goes for removing comments, responding to people, correcting someone's addition to an article, removal of vandalism, reverting a bad edit... everything. Always remember that there's a literal army of people editing Misplaced Pages and, if something needs doing, someone will come along and do it if you don't.  — Saxifrage | ☎ 08:02, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Gabriel, I've seen some astounding behavior on your part in the past, and I've seen you say you thought it was OK for a variety of bizarre and unbelievable reasons. As far as I recall, no one has ever agreed with the reasons you've given, and no one's going to agree with this one, either. You need to face a simple fact: you do not have good judgement on what behavior is appropriate. This simple fact is exactly what got you into this mess. You are only making things worse for yourself. Users with patterns of disruptive behavior far shorter than yours have been permanently banned. Next time you think there's a good reason for you to break a rule or an agreement you've made, stop. Don't do it. The things that seem like justifications to you, don't seem at all that way to others. Friday (talk) 16:56, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

strange

its been 24 hrs, but im still blocked... wierd...Gavin the Chosen 06:08, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

It sometimes happens that blocks don't automaticaly expire when they're supposed to—some bug in the software, apparently. If you think that's the case, email someone (like SlimVirgin?) and ask them to check on the status of your block.  — Saxifrage | ☎ 07:43, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

3RR

Gabriel, you violated 3RR at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Philosophy and have been temporarily blocked from editing. The times of your reverts, in case you want to check them, were 08:11, 08:18, 08:22, and 08:32, August 15. Although you did delete your edit at 08:34, you didn't restore DreamGuy's edit, and so it remains a 3RR violation. For future reference, article RfCs must be described in neutral terms. SlimVirgin 08:50, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

He was removing my comments which i had placd as neutrally as possible, while stillterlling what the eact nature of the dispute was, he claimed peronal attacks, which i had not made any of, it is against policey to remove other editors coments, form a page, inculding project pages, all i was doing in this cae was removing vansaliscioous blanking of what could incrimminate the user who wqas removing it, i firmly beleive your being too strict with me in this case ( so far i have triedto type this four times) please unblock me.Gavin the Chosen 08:55, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Your comments were not neutral, and in any event, 3RR does not depend on the nature of the content, unless it's simple vandalism. You were also reverting, and may have violated 3RR, at Vampire, and you had started a revert war at Otherkin. SlimVirgin 09:09, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

revert wqar claims

there was no revert war, i read his summ,ary, changed it and made my argument, then i leistend to his argument and let it be, HOW IS THAT A WAR VASHTI??????? you poeple have to stop assuming the wrost about me.Gavin the Chosen 09:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Gabriel, the people you're dealing with are not assuming the worst. If folks were assuming the worst about you, you would have already been banned permanently, long ago. Instead, people are assuming that you mean well, and you're getting lenient treatment. A quick glance through your edit history shows an edit war not long ago. You must learn to stop reverting, even if you know you're on the "right" side. Friday (talk) 16:27, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Here's the message I left on my talk page this morning:

Your talk page is protected, so I'm leaving this here. You reverted the same change twice, making a total of four reverts on the one page within something like an hour. That's a revert war, in my book. I mentioned it to Slimvirgin in the hope that she might be able to have a word with you before you hit 3RR, but I see you've already been blocked for something else. Vashti 09:14, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Vashti 17:02, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

it seemed more of a converastion to me, in edit summaries. but then, anything i seem to percieve seems to be wrong lately...

im beginning to wonder why im even here.Gavin the Chosen 19:48, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I know that you can contribute to the WP, you've done it before. If I might suggest something to try... based on the theory that there are a LOT of people editing, and considering some of the recent stuff that's happened, might I suggest that you consciously decide not to revert ANYTHING, at least for a while? If someone vandalizes something you watch, assume that someone else will fix it quickly, and if they don't, or you think it's too obscur for an easy catch, just post something about it in the discussion page and let someone else do the dirty work. This way, you can remain clear of any accusations and go back to doing what you do best, contributing content. Best regards, and I sincerely hope that you can find a role here. - Chairboy 20:00, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

They're called edit summaries because they're for summarising the edit just made. Using them for a conversation is abusing them. That's what the Talk page is for. Reverting back and forth in order to have a conversation with one other editor makes it impossible for everyone else to work on an article. This is the very definition of "disruptive editing". The fact that your disruptive behaviour has been making the project harder for other editors is the reason you're up for Arbitration. Every time you do something, think twice and three times about it, asking yourself, "Is this disrupting other people's work?" If the answer is "yes" or even "maybe", for the sake of the project, don't do it! You have to stop being disruptive.  — Saxifrage | ☎ 21:42, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Vampire

The piece I wrote about vampires was purely about vampires in movies. It fitted quite well on the vampire fiction page as another user stated. The vampire legend is quite different.--Kim Nevelsteen 12:43, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

the part about "modern real vampires" seems to be a separate subculture then " the vamprie subculture" and ifthats the case, then wouldnt it belong in the main page?Gavin the Chosen 12:44, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

people thinking they need blood to survive is also a subculture. The top heading is "the vampire subculture, which fits perfectly. Also the statement about the overlapping with the dress code people makes the subsection a fitting choice. It clear doesn't relate to other sections. --Kim Nevelsteen 12:48, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

ill accept that.Gavin the Chosen 12:49, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

the two sections that I removed and wanted to move to vampire lifestyles are EXACT regurgitations of what is already stated there. If there is some that is missing from lifestyles, maybe you can add it there. sorry about the removal of your work.--Kim Nevelsteen 13:26, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

IP sockpuppetry

Are you 69.195.126.19 (talk · contribs)? ~~ N (t/c) 16:15, 16 August 2005 (UTC) sorry to tell you, but no. when that last edit happend i was searching for stuff to help proove my point about vamps blod and symboism.Gavin the Chosen 16:17, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

You signed one of the edits using that IP as "gabrielSimon": ~~ N (t/c) 16:21, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

ips cover thrree block areras in this system that rogers has. back before i was using an account, i was anon, that doenst mean otherp eople might also be. how else do youyhink i get autoblocked when i didnt do anthing?Gavin the Chosen 16:24, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Gabriel, that edit just reverted one of the edits (at Otherkin) that you are currently on 3RR report for. I suspect that this is going to be extremely serious for you.

At some point you really need to let this thing with DreamGuy go, and stop blaming all your problems on him setting you up. The admins aren't stupid, and do look at what you've done. You are in the wrong as much as he is. You are being just as bad as he is. Your problems here are your own fault, and not his.

My heartfelt advice to you is that you should let the people who want to help you get on with it, and stop sabotaging them every time you come back from a ban. You will only be allowed to get blocked each day so many times. Vashti 16:28, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Yaknow, Vashti, it would go better if you dropped the "just as bad as he is" in referring to me. I am not up for RfC nor undergoing arbitration. I do not break policies, I don't use sockpuppets, I do my best to remain civil with the guy even when he's outright swearing at me. There's no comparison here at all between what I do and what Gabriel does. Phrasing things in this way just helps him justify his persecution complex to himself.

By the way, yes, I agreed not to "talk" to Gabriel, but some people have started acting as if it were some sort of discipline I am on, and that's not it at all. I voluntarily agreed to do so. I was trying to help. It didn't help. I give up trying to be extra generous when it just has people walking over me. Gabriel is without a doubt the one breaking the rules here, I was just doing what was necessary to get rid of his bad edits and document what he was doing, and I resent the bad faith involved in claiming that I am at all similar. DreamGuy 18:45, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks

Gabriel, I have suspended your Misplaced Pages account for 48 hours. Please review the policy above, and remember our agreement about not "talking to" DreamGuy.

through shifting claims of differnet probvlems which are all lies, he tries again to remove myworthwhile contributions, hence, reinsertion

well thats whats bes been doing the entire time, i try to make adecent, constructive additopn to a page, and he destroys it beasue it doesnt suit his version of reality.Gavin the Chosen 17:12, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

arb com message

first, lets say that im stressed, second, lets say that i will take this one month thing,becuase then at least this whole mess will be over and done with.Gavin the Chosen 17:45, 16 August 2005 (UTC)