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<center>''More shocking revelations of the Nation's vital secrets emerged from the dark recess chambers of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigation when it declassified its long held Executive Session transcripts. Senator Jospeh R. McCarthy and Chief Counsel Roy Cohn, vile scum that they are, clearly step over the line of abuse with this witness, <br>(though it should be noted, this is in the pre - ] age....''</center><br>
] and parachute. Much of popular media maintains<br> the avowed ] can be rehabilitated.<br> The CIA says he was "pussy whipped".]]
<center><big><b>''"The other curious thing about the Hiss case is the psychology of believing <br>that Hiss was a spy, which requires abandoning <br>much of what we know about ]</b>."''</big> - ], columnist.<br>
</center>
:Some of the more obvious problems with the Lowenthal band aid:
* "Ales was said in the message to have been active for 11 years, 1935 through the date of the message, 1945; Alger Hiss was accused of spying in the mid-30's and '''not later than 1938'''.
**Whittaker Chambers knowledge only went up ]; as inserted here, this clearly is a deliberate distortion of the evidence (1934-1945 fits Hiss).
* "Ales was said to be the leader of a small group of espionage agents; Hiss was accused of having acted alone, aside from his wife as a typist and Chambers as courier.
**Again, the decrypt reads "small group of relatives" ; "was accused", again is a reference to Chambers, not Venona material.
* "Ales was a GRU (military intelligence) agent who obtained ], and only rarely provided State Department material; Alger '''Hiss was accused of obtaining only non-military information and the papers used against him were non-military State Department materials''' that he allegedly produced on a regular basis.
** Again, confusing Chambers testimony with Venona materials. All this clearly is a deliberate distortion and in dire need of either
***(1) rewrite (at which point it cannot be attributed to Lowenthal anymore),
***(2) clarification (again, then would go unsourced and may be considered original research),
***(3) removal of the Venona subhead, because this material does not refute Venona evidence. ] 19:37, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
::Eduard Mark, ''Who Was 'Venona's' 'Ales'? Cryptanalysis and the Hiss Case,'' Intelligence and National Security 18, no. 3 (Autumn 2003): 45-72, effectively refutes Lowenthal's reading of Venona Cable No. 1822 and suggests that Cable No. 195 from Moscow to New York adds further support to the case against Hiss. ] 01:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
<center><big><b>''More shocking revelations of the Nation's vital secrets emerged from the dark recess chambers of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigation when it declassified its long held Executive Session transcripts. Senator Jospeh R. McCarthy and Chief Counsel Roy Cohn, vile scum that they are, clearly step over the line of abuse with this witness, <br>(though it should be noted, this is in the pre - ] age....''</b></big></center><br>
] ] to smear the reputations of dead persons?]]Mr. Cohn. Mr Varley, as a matter of fact. To put it frankly here, you are not very careful about telling the truth, are you?
] ] to smear the reputations of dead persons?]]Mr. Cohn. Mr Varley, as a matter of fact. To put it frankly here, you are not very careful about telling the truth, are you?
] and parachute. Much of popular media maintains<br> the avowed ] can be rehabilitated.<br> The CIA says he was "pussy whipped".]]
The Chairman. They took you down in their car, did they?
The Chairman. They took you down in their car, did they?
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==Disinfopedia==
==Disinfopedia==
<center>''From an exchange with an alleged secret cabal of ], recently caught red handed attempting to insert ] ] in Misplaced Pages. Names have been redacted pending identification.''</center>
<center><Big><b>''From an exchange with an alleged secret cabal of ], recently caught red handed attempting to insert <br>] ] in Misplaced Pages. Names have been redacted pending identification.''</b></big></center>
"What about:
<blockquote>"What about:
] ignominously resides in the basement of the ]]]
] ignominously resides in the basement of the ]]]
"Prior to his death, after several days of intensive public examination on the question of whether he was an espionage agent for the Soviet Union, White denied the allegation repeatedly. His family continue to protest his innocence. His defenders include authors published by a journal of the ] which argued his motives were impugned unfairly. They point to the strength of feeling and over-zealousness of some of White's accusers such as Senator Joe McCarthy and point to his role in the creation of institutions like the IMF and World Bank whose objectives include the promotion of capitalism.
"Prior to his death, after several days of intensive public examination on the question of whether he was an espionage agent for the Soviet Union, White denied the allegation repeatedly. His family continue to protest his innocence. His defenders include authors published by a journal of the ] which argued his motives were impugned unfairly. They point to the strength of feeling and over-zealousness of some of White's accusers such as Senator Joe McCarthy and point to his role in the creation of institutions like the IMF and World Bank whose objectives include the promotion of capitalism.
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"I think putting the counter view would be helpful at the end of the article to put it in context. He is clearly a spy but his denial is an importatnt part of his story. 12:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
"I think putting the counter view would be helpful at the end of the article to put it in context. He is clearly a spy but his denial is an importatnt part of his story. 12:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
:"You have to deal with this simple question in English: Under a Sub-head entitled "Allegations denied", you are stating (1) Joseph McCarthy accused a dead man. (2) the dead man denied the allegations from the grave. Clearly we can do better for Misplaced Pages than this disguised recycled POV. ] 15:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
:"You have to deal with this simple question in English: Under a Sub-head entitled "Allegations denied", you are stating (1) Joseph McCarthy accused a dead man. (2) the dead man denied the allegations from the grave. Clearly we can do better for Misplaced Pages than this disguised recycled POV. ] 15:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC) </blockquote>
<center>''See the naked truth for yourself at --> ]</center>
<center>''See the naked truth for yourself at --> ]</center>
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==Cberlet v nobs==
==Cberlet v nobs==
<center>''They brought in the bigs guns. In an effort to save Mr. Magdoff's reputation, a high powered attorney was asked to argue the case. Below is the exchange where a cheesehead off the farm disposes of one of the elite top lawyers.''</center>
<center><big>''They brought in the bigs guns. In an effort to save Mr. Magdoff's reputation, a high powered attorney was asked to argue the case. Below is the exchange where a cheesehead off the farm disposes of one of the elite top lawyers.''</big></center>
] (1905-1963), driven to an early grave by slander, her reputation was exonerated by the United States Government in 1995. In 2005, attempts to villify her again resurged to protect the reputations of cowards and the truelly guilty.]]
] (1905-1963), driven to an early grave by slander, her reputation was exonerated by the United States Government in 1995. In 2005, attempts to villify her again resurged to protect the reputations of cowards and the truelly guilty.]]
"I have discovered shocking evidence that the claims on this page have misrepresented the underlying documentation cited.
"I have discovered shocking evidence that the claims on this page have misrepresented the underlying documentation cited.
Revision as of 20:56, 21 August 2005
...be gentle to all, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves... 2 Timothy 2:24-5
Alger Hiss with the Hope of Mankind and parachute. Much of popular media maintains the avowed Stalinist can be rehabilitated. The CIA says he was "pussy whipped".
"The other curious thing about the Hiss case is the psychology of believing that Hiss was a spy, which requires abandoning much of what we know about rational thought." - Molly Ivins, columnist.
Some of the more obvious problems with the Lowenthal band aid:
"Ales was said in the message to have been active for 11 years, 1935 through the date of the message, 1945; Alger Hiss was accused of spying in the mid-30's and not later than 1938.
Whittaker Chambers knowledge only went up 1938; as inserted here, this clearly is a deliberate distortion of the evidence (1934-1945 fits Hiss).
"Ales was said to be the leader of a small group of espionage agents; Hiss was accused of having acted alone, aside from his wife as a typist and Chambers as courier.
Again, the decrypt reads "small group of relatives" ; "was accused", again is a reference to Chambers, not Venona material.
"Ales was a GRU (military intelligence) agent who obtained military intelligence, and only rarely provided State Department material; Alger Hiss was accused of obtaining only non-military information and the papers used against him were non-military State Department materials that he allegedly produced on a regular basis.
Again, confusing Chambers testimony with Venona materials. All this clearly is a deliberate distortion and in dire need of either
(1) rewrite (at which point it cannot be attributed to Lowenthal anymore),
(2) clarification (again, then would go unsourced and may be considered original research),
(3) removal of the Venona subhead, because this material does not refute Venona evidence. nobs 19:37, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Eduard Mark, Who Was 'Venona's' 'Ales'? Cryptanalysis and the Hiss Case, Intelligence and National Security 18, no. 3 (Autumn 2003): 45-72, effectively refutes Lowenthal's reading of Venona Cable No. 1822 and suggests that Cable No. 195 from Moscow to New York adds further support to the case against Hiss. nobs 01:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
$12K / yr man @ UN
More shocking revelations of the Nation's vital secrets emerged from the dark recess chambers of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigation when it declassified its long held Executive Session transcripts. Senator Jospeh R. McCarthy and Chief Counsel Roy Cohn, vile scum that they are, clearly step over the line of abuse with this witness, (though it should be noted, this is in the pre - Miranda warning age....
Mr. Cohn. Mr Varley, as a matter of fact. To put it frankly here, you are not very careful about telling the truth, are you?
Mr.Varley. I think I do tell the truth.
Mr. Cohn. Well, now, you were before a grand jury, and I asked you, before the grand jury, whether or not you had ever been arrested or convicted, and you denied it at first and then admitted it later; isn’t that a fact?
Mr.Varley. I don’t know what—.
Would you mind repeating the question, please.
Mr. Cohn. Read the question, please.
Mr. Varley. I never admitted that I was arrested.
Mr. Cohn. You never admitted that you were arrested?
Mr. Varley. No.
Mr.Cohn. You still don’t think you were arrested?
Mr. Varley. That’s right.
Mr. Cohn. I see. You got some good legal opinions about that; is that right?
The CHAIRMAN. Is it your testimony that you have never been arrested?
Mr. Varley. That’s right, sir.
Mr. Cohn. What do you think, the records of the New York Police Department are forged?
Mr. Varley. Well, I asked my lawyer to consult the records and also tried to recollect the matter, and all my
recollection was that I was summoned before the court of magistrates.
Mr. Cohn. Isn’t it a fact—I regret the necessity of going into this again—but isn’t it a fact that you were found by members of the New York City Police Department in the men’s room and 50-something Street and Lexington Avenue on December 29, 1941, arrested on a morals charge, and that you plead guilty and paid the fines, or you were given an alternative of a fine or jail sentence and you paid the fines, not only for yourself but for the other man who was taken in along with you, name Leonardo Boronek? Isn’t that a fact?
Mr. Varley. Would you give me the question?
Mr. Cohn. Before you get to that, would you please add this, Mr. Stenographer: the names of the policemen were Valetine Piccitrilli and William Vogel. Now, would you answer that question?
File:Cohn.gifRoy Cohn, alleged rumors say he was a closet Pinko. McCarthy, driven to insanity by an endless parade of liars, drank himself to death.
Mr. Varly. This is not a fact.
Mr. Cohn. Tell me where it isn’t a fact.
Mr. Varley. I was never arrested, and I was never convicted on a morals charge.
Mr. Cohn. Tell us what happened.
The CHAIRMAN. Were you picked up by the policemen?
Mr. Varley. The policemen did talk to me, but I was not arrested.
The Chairman. Did they take you along with them?
Mr. Varley The policemen told me that—
The Chairman. Did they take you along with them?
Mr. Varley. No, they didn’t. The policemen told me, as I recollect it, that after we had very brief discussion, “Let the magistrate’s court figure that out,” words to that effect.
The Chairman. Did they take you down to the magistrate?
Mr. Varley. We went to the magistrate’s court, all together.
The Chairman. The policemen picked you up, they took you down to the magistrate; is that right?
Mr. Varley. He didn’t pick me up. He said that “Well, let all of us go to the magistrate court.”
The Chairman. All right. When I say “picked you up,” what do you understand that I mean?
You said he didn’t pick you up. What do you think it means to get picked up?
Mr. Varley. That the counsel says, to be arrested.
The Chairman. And the policeman came in and took you to the magistrate; is that right?
Mr. Varley. He said, “Let’s go to the magistrate.” He didn’t say, “You are arrested.” I didn’t resist—
The Chairman. Did he take you down in a police car? Did they take you down in a police car?
Mr. Varley. I think it was an ordinary automobile.
The Chairman. They took you down in their car, did they?
Mr. Varley. We went in their car.
The Chairman. All right. They took you to the magistrate?
Mr. Varley. We went down to the magistrate’s court.
The Chairman. They took you in their car to the magistrate, is that correct?
Mr. Varley. May I say how I remember what happened?
The Chairman. No, you answer my questions. I may say that if the policeman’s testimony is correct, you perjured yourself about three times now. You can keep on if you want to, or you can tell us the truth.
I will repeat the question: Did they take you in their car to the magistrate? Either yes or no?
Mr. Varley. Yes.
The Chairman. They did, all right. Did they file charges against you?
Mr. Varley. Yes, there was a summons by a policeman.
The Chairman. All right. And were you found guilty?
Mr. Varley. I pleaded guilty.
The Chairman. You pleaded guilty?
Mr. Varley. Yes.
The Chaiman. You paid a fine?
Mr. Varley. I paid a fine.
The Chairman. And did you pay the other man’s fine, too?
Mr. Varley. I did.
The Chairman. You say you were never arrested?
Mr. Varley. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Cohn, I want this transmitted to the U.S. attorney, a clear case of perjury.
Disinfopedia
From an exchange with an alleged secret cabal of infiltrators, recently caught red handed attempting to insert subversivedisinformation in Misplaced Pages. Names have been redacted pending identification.
"Prior to his death, after several days of intensive public examination on the question of whether he was an espionage agent for the Soviet Union, White denied the allegation repeatedly. His family continue to protest his innocence. His defenders include authors published by a journal of the International Monetary Fund which argued his motives were impugned unfairly. They point to the strength of feeling and over-zealousness of some of White's accusers such as Senator Joe McCarthy and point to his role in the creation of institutions like the IMF and World Bank whose objectives include the promotion of capitalism.
"I think putting the counter view would be helpful at the end of the article to put it in context. He is clearly a spy but his denial is an importatnt part of his story. 12:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
"You have to deal with this simple question in English: Under a Sub-head entitled "Allegations denied", you are stating (1) Joseph McCarthy accused a dead man. (2) the dead man denied the allegations from the grave. Clearly we can do better for Misplaced Pages than this disguised recycled POV. nobs 15:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
They brought in the bigs guns. In an effort to save Mr. Magdoff's reputation, a high powered attorney was asked to argue the case. Below is the exchange where a cheesehead off the farm disposes of one of the elite top lawyers.
File:Elizabethbentleya.jpgElizabeth Bentley (1905-1963), driven to an early grave by slander, her reputation was exonerated by the United States Government in 1995. In 2005, attempts to villify her again resurged to protect the reputations of cowards and the truelly guilty.
"I have discovered shocking evidence that the claims on this page have misrepresented the underlying documentation cited.
"According to an FBI memo dated May 15, 1950, Harry Magdoff was listed as one of a group of "individuals positively or tentatively identified" as part of a KGB set of assets, with the names agreeing with information "furnished me by Elizabeth Bentley."
"But in a memo February 1, 1956 discussing in detail the problem of actually properly identifying people in the Venona material when cover names are used, there is a specific reference to the cover name "Magdoff-Kant" followed by the parenthetical phrase "(probably Harry Magdoff)"
"So this identification of Harry Magdoff "tentively" and "probably" has been promoted into an actual positive identification. This assumption is periodically made throughout various government intelligence documents, but in the memo wrapping up the investigation and prosectuion based on this information (in which Magdoff was never indicted) the summary concludes that the identification of Harry Magdoff is still uncertain.--Cberlet 13:46, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
"The 1 February 1956 memo Belmont to Boardman (1) discusses in detail the problems of prosecution based on Venona material (not "actually identifying people", as misrepresented above); (2) the Belmont to Boardman memo refers to "Magdoff-Kant" as "probably Magdoff"; in the next paragraph it refers to "Kant" as "Magdoff" (I know it's an old cliche to argue what "is" is, but "Magdoff-Kant" is a different spelling from "Kant"), as the memo reads, identification of "Kant" is postive as "Magdoff", and the identification of "Magdoff-Kant" is probable as "Magdoff". And the discussion following those two references sites this as corroboration of Elizabeth Bentley's depositition. nobs 15:41, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
It was a knock out blow. The former NLG vice-president was shocked and speechless. Ever mindful not give up ground in midst of a negotiation, could only respond,
