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:Ο χρήστης ΑρβερΒοριψι είναι, να μη πω τι είναι, αλλά και εσύ γιατί πας και αφαιρείς το αντίστοιχο Αλβανικό απ'το άρθρο της Ηπείρου; Αλβανικά καταλαβαίνεις, επί τη ευκαιρία; ] (]) 23:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:Ο χρήστης ΑρβερΒοριψι είναι, να μη πω τι είναι, αλλά και εσύ γιατί πας και αφαιρείς το αντίστοιχο Αλβανικό απ'το άρθρο της Ηπείρου; Αλβανικά καταλαβαίνεις, επί τη ευκαιρία; ] (]) 23:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
::Ευχαριστω παιδια.Οπως ειπα και πριν ενταξει ειμαι αρκετα νεος ως editor στη ΒικιΠαιδεια αλλα γενικα΄απο υπολογιστες τα παω καλα.Για το αρθρο της Ηπειρου λαθος τελικα γιατι νομιζα οτι ηταν για την περιφερεια της Ηπειρου και οχι για την περιοχη (region).Αλβανικα καταλαβαινω λιγα μπορει οχι ολες τις λεξεις αλλα νοημα βγαζω πανω κατω.] (]) 08:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
::Ευχαριστω παιδια.Οπως ειπα και πριν ενταξει ειμαι αρκετα νεος ως editor στη ΒικιΠαιδεια αλλα γενικα΄απο υπολογιστες τα παω καλα.Για το αρθρο της Ηπειρου λαθος τελικα γιατι νομιζα οτι ηταν για την περιφερεια της Ηπειρου και οχι για την περιοχη (region).Αλβανικα καταλαβαινω λιγα μπορει οχι ολες τις λεξεις αλλα νοημα βγαζω πανω κατω.] (]) 08:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
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Ancient Greece
Yia sou, Tsourkpk. I've seen your comment on Talk:Ancient Greece and I agree (as you can see from my comment right above yours). The topic is too important to be left in this state. I didn't know what you say about schoolkids being encouraged to edit, but the daily experience of watching this article strongly suggests you are right. Alas, I am not a professional classicist, are you? Also, I think that the article is a task that might require some time, some discussion, and a team of authors who are willing and able to contribute. They'd have to agree on a series of sections, prepare them on their own sandboxes (with references), and then overhaul the article in one go, and watch it ever after... Should it be, in your opinion, a long essay on Ancient Greek civilisation as a whole, or perhaps a series of shorter introductions, linking to the more detailed wikipedia articles on the relevant topics? Is there anyone else out there who feels this needs attention? athinaios (talk) 00:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Pelasgians
Just so you know Tsourkpk, Dbachmann has reviewed the paragraph supporting the Albanian-Pelasgian connection and has decided to remove the majority of its content (except for one sentence that is actually relevant to the Pelasgians article). Anyway, if you want to contribute to the discussion, then by all means participate. I would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks. Deucalionite (talk) 17:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Pelasgians (again)
Just so you know Tsourkpk, I tried to convince Dbachmann to fix the "paragraph" supporting the so-called Albanian-Pelasgian connection. Unfortunately, I did not get a response from him. I think that you (or even Megistias) should do the honors of following through with Dbachmann's critical review. This issue has to come to a close. I would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks. Deucalionite (talk) 17:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Question
Hello and sorry to annoy you.Your frontpage says you are interested in maps.I uploaded this after hard work with many books Ancient Epirusbut i cant understand how to place it in Epirus and Epirus-related subjects like personalities and the such.Could you help?Also check the talk page it has for explanation in several questions regarding specific tribes. Megistias (talk) 20:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
illyrian tribesHello what do you think of this one? Ok i found out how.Megistias14:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
This is a misnaming of the albanian language based in geography and historical anachronism.Albanians appear at 1000 Ad.Megistias (talk) 12:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Saranda
Hi! You reverted my amends saying they were "unexplained mass deletions". They were not. I was merely rearranging the information into topic headings, subed into native English and add a link to Ksamil. You may care to restore my amends. No offence intended, but a brief read would have made this clear. I certainly don't wish to start a content fight; my intention was to improve the content. Folks at 137 (talk) 23:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
White space
There are 2 ways that I know of to minimise white space. Normally, the table of contents (toc) will generate space, as it did in the Saranda article, but if one uses {{tocleft}} or {{tocright}} it forces the toc to the left or right and text can fill the space. Use of boxes can also generate white space and one can reduce it by use of {{clear}}. Not sure how it's used, try some experiments, there's an example at D class cruiser which might help. Good luck, mate. Folks at 137 (talk) 08:43, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
The truth will come out one day. For me Misplaced Pages has become nothing more than your propaganda. You can't give any valid arguments if something is wrong in the quoted tekst from illyrians.org. You are a sad example of someone that can't win an argument with facts. You accuse the site illyrians.org of being ultra-nationalistic. The same can be said of all the contributrions you made to wikipedia. I demand arbitrage by non-greek people. Probably you are to affraid for that and you will delete this again WikiBakel (talk) 14:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
If I were to erase the insulting comment you wrote above, I would actually be doing you a favor, since insulting me in the manner you did only makes YOU look bad. Now, you can "sanitize" your own talk page all you want ], ], ], ], but know that every insult, every derogatory comment, every slur and every rant you post on MY page will be available for everyone to see for all eternity. As for your site illyrians.org, it is indeed nothing more than a fringe-lunatic crackpot nationalist website, so please familarize yourself with WP:RS and stop wasting everyone's time. --Tsourkpk (talk) 21:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Like you, I am unenthused about having Turkish names in the lead sentence for most Greek places. However, I am not so sure about omiting them in the "history" section. It was part of their history to be called something else. I hope this can be recognized. Student7 (talk) 01:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I suppose including the Ottoman Turkish name for some places in the history section is fine with me. However, I still think that should be the case only in places where the Ottoman presence was significant and left a more lasting mark on the place (e.g. for Thrace, but not for the Cyclades for example).
He misinterprets sources that are primary and my myriad secondary sources are ignored. And i get punished! The article is awful now. He just insists the page is full of sources from me that show they were greek with no doubt.Megistias (talk) 19:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm getting involved with this specifically because I have no particular interest in the outcome. I'm not punishing Megistias (unless he does something to deserve it). I've been careful to distinguish primary from secondary sources. And the article is not ruined. DS (talk) 20:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, Megistias is referring to the fact that he got slapped with WP:ARBMAC and that the user who provoked this edit-war got away scott-free, not something you did. I also tend to think that this is somewhat unfair. Concerning sources, it is my understanding that the ancient, primary sources break down as follows: Plutarch explicitly states the Chaonians were Greek, Thucydides mentions them as "barbarians" (which may or may not mean they were Greek), Pseudo-Scylax simply omits them, while Hecateus of Miletus mentions them as Greek. Just like the secondary sources, no primary sources explicitly says they were non-Greek. And if they were Illyrian or Thracian (the only two non-Greek possibilities), there would exist a source that would mention that. To my knowledge, such a source, primary or secondary, does not exist. Rather, as Megistias points out, it seems there is overwhelming evidence that they were Greek. Therefore, the summary to your recent edit is perplexing. As far as I can tell, there is no disagreement among ancient sources either. --Tsourkpk (talk) 20:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
What can we do with this article? Should we put it again up for deletion?
Should we only rename it? User Carlosouares is writing an article for every part of Greece based on the biased book of Simovski.
I don’t think that he has realized the mistake he is doing. He thinks that he is fighting nationalists!!
Seleukosa (talk) 10:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Todor Hristov Simovski is a 100 % questionable source.All and any material ,references and articles based on him must be removed.He is POV and his books are unverifiable."Aegean Macedonia"? The book is nationalistic to say the least and nothing more the Irredentism.How did this get through in wiki.Everything must be removed and appropriate measures be taken.Megistias (talk) 10:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
The material has been scanned by someone heresimovski,obviously some irredendist from fyrom.See Simovski's bio and material from the Book.Clearly material that is trash.Even if this gets closed i have saved the related material.The articles should be deleted and any and all refs with this "simovski".Megistias (talk) 11:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
You all claim that Simovski isn't reliable - do you have a reliable source as to (a) which ethnicities were majorities during various periods in these areas of Greece; and (b) what those people called their villages and towns? Simovski cites the Greek laws that made the changes in names. You concede that there was a change in ethnicity in population exchange, etc. Your buddy is removing Vlach names from Vlach places as well. Again, the Slavic names may have derived from the Greek, the Turkish, Albanian, or whatever, but it is what the Slavic people called these places. And as for "Aegean Macedonia" being problematic, it is the normal formulation of the region in Macedonian, Bulgarian, and Serbian sources, just as "East Thrace" is normal in Greek sources for European Turkey, even though the Turks don't like that formulation. I have asked Seleukos to show any error in Simovski information and he has been unable to do so, so while you all claim to have problems with the source, you have not come up with any contrary information (if you do, add it to the articles) or disproven any of information I have added. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
The Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World,by Loring M. Danforth,Page 41,"When Greek Macedonia was liberated in 1913 43% of the population was Greek,40 percent Moslem and 10% Bulgarian".On the populace.
Read any article on any country and you'll find that the history section talks about the history of the area the country occupies. You'll find Celts in Spanish and French history, Siouxs and Apaches in US history etc. You'll find Alexander the Great mentioned in the history sections of many countries, none of which he was connected with. Just to make myself clear, I no way was Alexander and the ancient Macedonians connected to present day Macedonians nor any Slavic groups, but that's not the point. As I said, every country has a history section going back in time to before the current country was established. JdeJ (talk) 21:49, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
You're probably right, the Paeonians are dealt with in too much detail and the whole piece could be better written and more clearly focused. If you can manage a shorter version that keeps Alexander and make a brief mentioning of the Paeonians, that would be ideal! Cheers JdeJ (talk) 22:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Why not? Including the authors from Turkey and FYROM only makes it obvious that this whole argument of the westerners is antihellenic and the quote from Rosenberg and Gabb at the end shows it plainly. All without going out and explicitly calling it such, but simply letting the facts speak for themselves. Basically the paragraph paints them as the hate filled little antihellenist nazis they are all without saying so explicitly. I'd like to hear your thoughts.Xenovatis (talk) 18:20, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I looked at Stefov's website and it is your typical fringe-lunatic website of the usual sort. As for Bolokbashi, he seems to be a political hack on a Turkish government payroll (of the Polat Kaya type). I see your point, but I feel such trash doesn't belong in a Misplaced Pages article and moreover including them (even in the way you have in mind) automatically lends them an aura of respectability. An uninformed reader might not see them for what they are. As for the Western view, I feel that it is very common (I can't tell you how many times I've come across it), no matter how much we may dislike it. In a much older version of the article, this was addressed very well by the following passage (now deleted):
"Other scholars, notably popular in Nazi Germany, have supported the refuted theories of the 19th century historian Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer, who claimed that the ancient Greeks genetically disappeared at some point, and as modern Greeks have no genetic or cultural connection to them, Europe owes them nothing. It should be noted that Fallmerayer's theories specifically aimed at the Greeks of Morea (Peloponnese), which at the time constituted less than a sixth of the overall Greek population, a fact which was being constantly ignored by his later supporters. His essays were refuted by numerous scholars of his time and were characterised by the Bavarian Academy of Sciences and Humanities as biased and unscientific."
It seems to me that what you have in mind is similar to the above passage, which I think does an excellent job of exposing this view for what it is. I propose re-adding it into the section, while taking care it doesn't become too big. Let me know what you think. --Tsourkpk (talk) 18:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't disagree. I only included the links in case anyone questioned whether there are Turks and Slavs who make these statements. I don't think there is any point in refuting Fallme since simply linking him to the Nazis with several citations discredits him more effectively than if we even deign refuting it. I will however be adding a citation on the genetics section on the low R1a1 (Slavic haplotype) occurence among Greeks (11%). Btw among Fyromians it is 35% which is the average for most Slavic people. Who would have thought...Xenovatis (talk) 19:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Nah, keep them both out. I concur with Tsourkpk that Stefov and Bolokbashi are nonsense. But that old hat about Fallerayer-bashing is silly too. Especially that cheap rhetorical trick guilt-by-association trick ("notably popular in Nazi Germany"), which sat there unsourced for years, and the following completely OR argument. Fut.Perf.☼19:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
OK then, let's keep the passage about Fallmerayer as is, and add something about the R1a1 data. I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier. I believe you have the article that appeared in 2000 in Science by Semino et al. in mind? --Tsourkpk (talk) 19:20, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Come on...it seems you try more than it is needed in order to get a "greek" nature of Saranda, which is not true, as far as we still have a concencus (I mean the first one, some months ago). Who would lie, about personalities that lived in a town, even if it is in albanian. Come on man, don`t be so nationalist......balkanian (talk) 20:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand what you're complaining about. The requirement for sourcing applies to everything, whether it is "Albanisation" or "famous people". Those are just the rules of Misplaced Pages. Take a look at this assessment for the article on Gjirokaster by a neutral user: ]. As for being nationalistic, tt seems you are the one who is implementing a double standard for sourcing: For Albanisation (which I dropped), you require very explicitly and specifically that a source in English says both "Albanisation" and "Saranda" in the same sentence (a rather strict requirement), yet here we are supposed to just take your word that these people are famous? The reason I object to them being included for now is not because they are ethnically Albanian, but because no one's ever heard of them outside Albania. That's probably why you haven't been able to find any sources in English about them and why the admin Cbrown agreed with my request. If these people were truly famous outside Albania, it wouldn't be hard to find material about their famousness in English. I'm sorry, but random websites and blogs simply won't do (a slippery slope, in fact). Feel free to ask anyone you want about this (Future Perfect, as an example), they'll tell you the same thing. --Tsourkpk (talk) 21:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I will ensure you that I am not a nationalist...but when you find a map (dubius at least) which says something untrue, I become such. There are four zones of greek majority in Albania, the Dropull zone (near Gjirokaster), the Vurg zone (near Saranda), the Himara town and Narta village. But ok, I assume that your map is right. It is said that there is a "forte majorite grek", Who can ensure me that this "majorite" is in the city of Korca and not in the sorrund villages??????? Please do not be blind with the history you learn in school, or by the Karaxaferidhes of your parliament. If I was, I would revert Atica`s pages, saying that they were arvanites there. It is the same shit. Find some kind of written references, like this ethnicity is x% that is y% and do not add any town with this "mappy" references...balkanian (talk) 20:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I will provide you with one shortly if you can be a little patient. BTW, the map is not dubious at all. It is from a very prestigious newspaper (one of the best out there, in fact). I think part of the problem is that being new to Misplaced Pages, you might be unfamiliar with the guidelines regarding sources. In that case I urge you to familiarize yourself with WP:RS, which should make everything clearer. --Tsourkpk (talk) 20:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
An award
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Alexander the Great
Ειδοποίησα έναν administrator ήδη. Ελπίζω να βοηθήσει. Δεν μπορεί να συνεχιστεί αυτή η ιστορία με το ίδιο άτομο. Πρέπει να αναλάβουν δράση και άλλα μέλη του Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Greece ώστε να σταματήσει αυτό. Το καλύτερο που έχουμε να κάνουμε είναι να τα καλέσουμε να δούνε τι συμβαίνει και να απευθυνθούμε σε administrators. Αν μπορείς κάντο κι εσύ. - Sthenel (talk) 20:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Al Beyrat
Προφανές τι thέλει. Όμως βάζοντας στο κείμενο τις 3 χώρες όπως τις έβαλα εγώ δηλ. τη δημοκρατία από τα πάνω μετά από την Αλ Μπανία φαίνεται ακόμα καλύτερα πόση σχέση έχουν. ;) Δεν είμαι εντελώς βλαξ. 3rdAlcove (talk) 18:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Αfou epemene toso na vgei to tag gia to wikiproject Greece, as meinoun ektws kai ta synxrona kratoi apo to intro. Emmenw s'ayto. Nomizw pws dyskola tha mporesei na ferei antirhsh sta epixeireimata mou peri "cultural region of ancient Greece" kai "time period", kai nomizw pws stekontai logika apo mona tous, asxetws to discussion. Symfonhsa na bgei to "greek history" ws compromise, e as mas synantisei kai aytos sta misa tou dromou. Oxi na ypoxorhsoume kai se ola. --Tsourkpk (talk) 18:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Siga mi DE ferei antirisi se "cultural region". Profanes trollaki. Tespa. Pantos an epimeinei, skepsou auto pou grafo parapano. Xamenoi de vgainoume, anyway. 3rdAlcove (talk) 18:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Alimono mh DEN epimeinei. Opws eipes, kara-trollaki. Etsi pou to vlepw, de tha stamathsei me tipota, opote se kapoia fash tha anamixthoun kai tritoi. Opote to thema einai an exoume peistika epixeirhmata, dyskola tha mporesei na provalei peistikes antirhseis. Telos pantwn, as doume ti tha ginei kai blepoume. Sthn hstath periptosh, kanoume opws les. --Tsourkpk (talk) 18:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Note
I'm blocking you for 48 hours for your recent disruptive editing and pointless edit-warring: further, per WP:ARBMAC you are limited to one revert per page per day for 6 weeks. Moreschi (talk) (debate) 13:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
see Nearchus Map discussion at Alexander the Great
Hello,
I'd just like to inform you that the current map (not the one you re-inserted) also shows the sea-voyage of Nearchus. Therefore there's no reason to re-insert the map you did. It is well-known that Alexander never went further south than the Egyptian capital of Memphis. The map you inserted is therefore not only redundant, but also inaccurate. Cheers. --Tsourkpk (talk) 02:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
You just beat me to it. I like how the 'list' was removed in the first place but an editor reinserted it with the justification of "rv vandalism" (must have been paying attention). Add to that the mildly racist comment by Keep it Fake, whose motives are as pure as snow...Cheers. 3rdAlcove (talk) 22:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm actually surprised you didn't catch that one before me --). Speaking of inane, have you seen these . Seems like Toci is the new Dodona. --Tsourkpk (talk) 22:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
How does it not have anything to do with the dispute? It has everything to do with it. The section was deleted by user:Hellasforever which is illegal to do. This is not the actual article, it was simply the discussion and I will not allow a random child to delete my words. I have a right to free speech and the articles were going to be added to the article (from non-Macedonians) since they viewed it as relevant! That was the reason it got deleted and it will be reposted in the future. Mactruth (talk) 07:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
First of all, don't insult me. One more of those little outbursts and you'll get reported. Now, as far as your postings, I will remind you that article's talk page is for discussing ways to improve the article in question, not for political grandstanding and playing out victim complexes. Your only interest in posting those "news" is to make Greeks look like aggressors and Slavomacedonians as innocent victims, and that's why they were removed. Not to mention most of those "news" outlets are of dubious reliability. Oh and by the way, using other users to get around your topic ban is a definite no-no. --Tsourkpk (talk) 07:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Παιδιά εχουν βαλθει οι Αλβανοι να σβησουν ο,τιδηποτε ελληνικό ονομα πόλης ή χωριού της μειονότητας στην Αλβανία κατι που και επίσημα η Αλβανία το επιτρέπει αν υπάρχουν και τα ελληνικά ονόματα. Ο χρητης ArberBorici στην talk page για τα γεωγραφικά ονόματα στην αλβανία προσκαλέι κόσμο (στα αλβανικά) να συμμετάσχουν στην προσπάθεια.Πρέπει να κάνουμε κάτι.Είμαι και νέος στην Misplaced Pages και δεν ξέρω και πολλά για αυτό απευθύνθηκα εδώ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knonis (talk • contribs) 08:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Ο χρήστης ΑρβερΒοριψι είναι, να μη πω τι είναι, αλλά και εσύ γιατί πας και αφαιρείς το αντίστοιχο Αλβανικό απ'το άρθρο της Ηπείρου; Αλβανικά καταλαβαίνεις, επί τη ευκαιρία; 3rdAlcove (talk) 23:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Ευχαριστω παιδια.Οπως ειπα και πριν ενταξει ειμαι αρκετα νεος ως editor στη ΒικιΠαιδεια αλλα γενικα΄απο υπολογιστες τα παω καλα.Για το αρθρο της Ηπειρου λαθος τελικα γιατι νομιζα οτι ηταν για την περιφερεια της Ηπειρου και οχι για την περιοχη (region).Αλβανικα καταλαβαινω λιγα μπορει οχι ολες τις λεξεις αλλα νοημα βγαζω πανω κατω.Knonis (talk) 08:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Warnings... how many this time *sighs*
Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Misplaced Pages without explaining the valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you.
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