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::::Oh, you ask "why do we not want Misplaced Pages to be the best source of information on him?". There's a simple answer to that, and it is that Misplaced Pages cannot handle information like this, as has been demonstrated often enough, not least by this case. Misplaced Pages is unable to maintain such articles in a fair and reasonable condition, it is simply not reasonable to allow inadequate people, with who knows what motives, to publish anonymously on such subjects with no personal responsibility and utterly inadequate and haphazard checks and balances.--] (]) 20:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Oh, you ask "why do we not want Misplaced Pages to be the best source of information on him?". There's a simple answer to that, and it is that Misplaced Pages cannot handle information like this, as has been demonstrated often enough, not least by this case. Misplaced Pages is unable to maintain such articles in a fair and reasonable condition, it is simply not reasonable to allow inadequate people, with who knows what motives, to publish anonymously on such subjects with no personal responsibility and utterly inadequate and haphazard checks and balances.--] (]) 20:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Speaking of soap-boxing. Get off it. There was plenty to be added to this article, ''obviously''. You didn't like the article, said it couldn't be maintained and was unfit for WP. Well, guess what, I've got it under control and it was actually quite easy. So while you're IP editing because you're fed up with this project and no longer want to be associated with it, thus are apparently above actually improvimproving anything, I've only used my sock because people on this project tend to be morons and label editors by what they edit... but then I figured it doesn't matter. The article is now neutral, though in need of additional expansion. The man did these things; there is not only evidence, but he plead guilty. It's sourced, well-written, and within our policies. So quit your pissing and moaning. You can attempt to justify your pathetic and shameful behavior, but I am left unmoved. ]] 04:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Speaking of soap-boxing. Get off it. There was plenty to be added to this article, ''obviously''. You didn't like the article, said it couldn't be maintained and was unfit for WP. Well, guess what, I've got it under control and it was actually quite easy. So while you're IP editing because you're fed up with this project and no longer want to be associated with it, thus are apparently above actually improvimproving anything, I've only used my sock because people on this project tend to be morons and label editors by what they edit... but then I figured it doesn't matter. The article is now neutral, though in need of additional expansion. The man did these things; there is not only evidence, but he plead guilty. It's sourced, well-written, and within our policies. So quit your pissing and moaning. You can attempt to justify your pathetic and shameful behavior, but I am left unmoved. ]] 04:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
== ] ==
Hi. You deleted this article after it survived AfD. I've restored it and referenced it too. If you feel that it ought to be deleted, please take it to AfD. - ] (]) 07:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Revision as of 07:30, 16 August 2008
Hm, leaving now. I don't really want to be associated with this any further. I was going to write a drama-queenish leaving statement, but that pretty pointless. All I want to say is at User:Doc glasgow/The BLP problem. Misplaced Pages was a great idea, but the structure dooms it - it has hit an ethical problem no-one who started it ever anticipated, and its decision making processes, and lack of responsibility, make it impossible for the community to fix it. Everyone with sense knows the problem, but minorities, and people who like to "play" wikipedia unimpeded, make proper radical solutions impossible. The one man who could make a difference isn't willing to try. So, I've had enough. Before anyone says, he's done this before, I will be scrambling my password this time.--Doc16:23, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Responses
The BLP is always greener in Glasgow. Enjoy your newfound 20+ hours a week.
I'm extremely sorry and disappointed to see this, but I understand your decision. You have been one of the most ethical, thoughtful, and dedicated Wikipedians and will surely be welcomed back gladly if and when you ever wish to return. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I am sorry that you have chosen to leave the project. I understand that your personal ethics need to come before your participation in the project. The project will miss your contributions. (1 == 2)16:48, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
This is terrible news for BLP subjects. They've lost an ally. However, I understand your frustration. Hopefully, whenever Misplaced Pages gets serious about addressing the problems that you raised, it will not be too late to change these problems. Hope to see you come back. daveh4h17:37, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Be well, man, you were the best chance BLP had here up to now. A pox on all the people that as you put it enjoy playing anonymously with others' lives, including those that tried to pronounce your recent efforts dead within a week of their being posted. They know who they are, on this page. Lawrence Cohen § t/e17:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Doc, I'm really sorry to see you leave, too. Your efforts to fix BLP have already made a tremendous difference to the ethos of the place, and the efforts will continue. I know that when you have to go, you have to go but best wishes for whatever you choose to do next in your future. If you ever feel the need to get back here, you know where we are. Thanks for everything you've done on the project, and thanks for caring about the important stuff - Alison18:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I, too, am sad to see you go, especially because I agree that the BLP issue needs to be fixed, and by having you leave, it's less likely to happen. Hopefully you will come back. --David Shankbone20:16, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Inevitable really - "Ships that pass in the night.......Only a look and a voice; then darkness again and a silence." Giano (talk) 21:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I really admired your work on Misplaced Pages, especially concerning BLP incidents. You will be missed. I understand your decision to leave. I wish you the best of luck in all of your future endeavors. I can only hope that you'll decide to come back someday. Best regards. -- Qaddosh||contribs22:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe not the best place to say this, but I do think that Misplaced Pages can discuss these sort of issues and (eventually) reach some resolution. See Misplaced Pages:Centralized discussion/Image placeholders for a well-structured discussion (admittedly with less input). On a personal note, I too will miss you. I hope we see you around again in some way or another. Carcharoth (talk) 23:16, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Doc, you were one of the first administrators who crossed my path here; your ethical stance made a very big impression on me and has been a guiding light in my development as an editor. Your ideas will continue to live on and to take shape as time goes on. Perhaps it will not be as quickly as you hoped, but the ship has slowed down and is starting to turn. To paraphrase one of my favourite poems: To you from failing hands I throw/The torch; be yours to hold it high. (Apologies to John McRae) Thanks for keeping it going for us for so long; now it is our responsibility to keep things moving in the right direction. Godspeed to you, sir. Risker (talk) 23:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm the first to admit that we've disagreed on plenty, but really, you and your blp stances are exactly what wikipedia needs, especially at this point in time. I can only hope you'll reconsider, if not, then good luck with what you decide to do. Wizardman01:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Doc, there hasn't been a more disheartening departure from Misplaced Pages since RickK left. You were a beacon for fairness and responsibility on Misplaced Pages, and losing you is a stunning blow. Good night and good luck. FCYTravis (talk) 08:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I am personally sorry to hear this, and it's very bad news for Misplaced Pages. We have to solve this problem one way or another, and I really liked your approach. --Hans Adler (talk) 12:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I remember feeling the same way after working very hard with 100 other editors on WP:ATT. It feels awful, I know. Maybe, just maybe, this is not unresolvable. Stick around and let us make it happen. ≈ jossi ≈(talk)00:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Funny you mention WP:ATT. That caused me to walk for a while and caused me to rethink my whole approach to Misplaced Pages. HidingT09:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I never had much contact with you, and I haven't always agreed with you, but I do know that you've always done things for the betterment of wikipedia. Thanks for everything, and enjoy real life (I've heard it's nice). --Kbdank7117:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
subpages
A number of your now-deleted subpages/essays were very interesting and useful, and I was wondering if you would have any objections to having some of them undeleted and moved to another location? -- Ned Scott09:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:Cofs logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? DWR18:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Jimbofluff
"Jimbofluff" of making the world a better place is not such a bad thing. Misplaced Pages is still very new.
hello, User:Astrotrain is trying to place the Arms of Great Britain on the Scotland page. This user claims on User talk:Astrotrain that "They are the Queen's Royal Arms, and they were linked to the relevant page. You can find the compromise agreement in the archives of the Scotland talk page." I finally located in the archives a conversation which involved yourself. My understanding from reading these archives is that there was no clear compromise, and if there was, it was to keep the status quo and not add the arms. I am contacting you over this matter as User:Astrotrain is continuing to try to add the said arms and has today stated in Talk:Scotland"There was a clear consensus, you can ask any of the other editors. I suspect you have other motives for making these changes. If you insist on moving the arms, they will be reinstated in the infobox then.". Yours, Czar Brodie (talk) 22:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Regarding article - Shawn Lonsdale - It's been a few months, but I wanted to hear the community's input in order to better assess notability concerns that had been raised on the article's talk page. I mentioned you in the AfD beginning comment, so I thought it proper to let you know. I was debating posting a neutral notice to the other admins/users that had been involved previously - Nick (talk·contribs), Zscout370 (talk·contribs), Orangemike (talk·contribs), and others, but wasn't sure that posting to all those talkpages was the appropriate way to go. Of course would appreciate your comments/feedback/advice, either at the AfD or elsewhere. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 04:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I stopped caring about process a long while ago. Process is quite clearly broken (that's why I don't edit), the only thing that "cuts it" is whatever cuts the toxic crap from wikipedia. Wikis are not appropriate media for that type of article - and that's a matter of ethical realism not taste. I am repulsed by worries over internal niceties that perpetuate the unacceptable face of wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.48.156 (talk) 12:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
It has nothing to do with internal niceness. I'm one of the last people to push for that. You don't like the article. That was the reason you stated in IRC. Big deal. He's notable. If people search for him, why do we not want Misplaced Pages to be the best source of information on him? Just because he's a sick person with a foul story doesn't mean anything. It's backed by reliable sources, I rewrote it to be neutral, and I'm going to expand it this week. Your attitude sucks. Browbeating admins into doing your bidding, on the project you don't want to be associated with but can't seem to leave, by telling them they "have no balls" is really pathetic. Magdalena. (talk) 15:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Give me a break. The article was a hatchet job of the worst order, a fact that was obvious to any sane person who looked at it. It had been created by a soapboxing single purpose account and allowed to remain unchecked for over a month. That fact alone should send shivers down the spine of anyone with any concern about wikipedia's ethics and structural incapacities. It was utterly disgraceful that a number of admins examined it and none had the good sense to press the "hell no, delete" button, but rather concerned themselves with internal proprieties. Any you? It seems to more shock you that the article was removed by backroom pressure than that it ever existed in the first place. Any now you want to spend time re-writing it? Fine, but if you were as concerned with keeping unmonitored shitty biographies off wikipedia as with ensuring that such marginal material is included you'd have more credibility with me, and then you can lecture me on my behaviour. As it is, perhaps you might ponder the ethics of writing biographies of real living people, with real lives, whilst you hide behind sock puppets and pseudonyms. Any respectable journalist would consider such to be cowardly. Oh, and my problem with it is NOT that he's some sort of "sick person"; on the contrary, it is that NO real person, no matter how sick, should be treated in this way. Living subjects are not Pokemon characters fit for the usual myopic wiki-processes --82.11.48.156 (talk) 16:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, you ask "why do we not want Misplaced Pages to be the best source of information on him?". There's a simple answer to that, and it is that Misplaced Pages cannot handle information like this, as has been demonstrated often enough, not least by this case. Misplaced Pages is unable to maintain such articles in a fair and reasonable condition, it is simply not reasonable to allow inadequate people, with who knows what motives, to publish anonymously on such subjects with no personal responsibility and utterly inadequate and haphazard checks and balances.--82.11.48.156 (talk) 20:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Speaking of soap-boxing. Get off it. There was plenty to be added to this article, obviously. You didn't like the article, said it couldn't be maintained and was unfit for WP. Well, guess what, I've got it under control and it was actually quite easy. So while you're IP editing because you're fed up with this project and no longer want to be associated with it, thus are apparently above actually improvimproving anything, I've only used my sock because people on this project tend to be morons and label editors by what they edit... but then I figured it doesn't matter. The article is now neutral, though in need of additional expansion. The man did these things; there is not only evidence, but he plead guilty. It's sourced, well-written, and within our policies. So quit your pissing and moaning. You can attempt to justify your pathetic and shameful behavior, but I am left unmoved. Jennavecia04:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi. You deleted this article after it survived AfD. I've restored it and referenced it too. If you feel that it ought to be deleted, please take it to AfD. - Richard Cavell (talk) 07:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
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