Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:49, 20 September 2005

• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive1
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive2
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive3
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive4
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive5

If you're here to have a look because of the RfC, please read archives 3, 4 and 5 first, thank you.

Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette#How to avoid abuse of Talk pages states:

• Use the Talk pages to discuss the accuracy/inaccuracy, POV bias, or other problems in the article, not as a soapbox for advocacy.

Repeating the same arguments over and over are pointless as this matter is now in the hands of the Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee where it will be resolved. - Ted Wilkes 17:31, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Under the circumstances, I endorse Ted Wilkes' interpretation of soapbox. 141's most recent contributions have been an unabated continuation of the same repeated and wholly unsupported (either by WP consensus or the documented historical record) tabloid-style assertions which have already been very lengthily discussed and rejected by every editor who looked into them. Readers can follow the entire discussion in the archives. Wyss 17:48, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

OK. Would you please discuss these passages from Priscilla Presley's book, a source you seem to have accepted as most reliable:

Seriously, 141, is English your native language? Wyss 18:38, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

English is not my native language, but when I was younger I have travelled extensively, living in the USA for some years. Do you have problems with this fact? Onefortyone 18:41, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I thought so. Although your (very limited and somewhat stilted) usage of English grammar is nominally correct, you make syntax errors (as I have bolded above in your latest reply) and IMHO you do seem to encounter steep challenges when trying to interpret (much less twist) the nuances of English language text. Wyss 18:54, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

There are lots of people from foreign countries contributing relevant material to innumerable Misplaced Pages articles, and there are many native speakers here who are able to correct grammatical or syntax errors as the one above, etc. I do not think that this is of much importance to the present discussion concerning the claims that Elvis may have had homosexual leanings. ;) Onefortyone 19:14, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I wasn't talking about fixing up grammar and syntax mistakes in articles at all, but I guess your response does show the troubles you seem to have comprehending English text and sources (along with the many other issues now being discussed in the arbitration concerning you). Wyss 19:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I do not think that I have trouble as you suggest. Most sources which support the view that Elvis had affairs with men are written by English and American writers. Their texts usually do not include grammar or syntax errors. Onefortyone 20:19, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

As I said, that's not at all what I'm talking about. You might try re-reading my posts in this thread. I do understand that your limitations in comprehending written English might make this difficult for you, especially when combined with the narrow focus of your agenda here. Wyss 20:53, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Is this a personal attack? I think so. Onefortyone 21:02, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

If you think what I said was a personal attack, that's only another example of your problems reading written English. So far as I can see, your contributions are a result of either lack of comprehension, willful distortion and fabrication, or both. Let's let the arbitration settle it. Wyss 21:20, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Weeks ago you accused me of being David Bret. Last week you said that I am the sockpuppet of a Misplaced Pages administrator. Now you seem to have changed your tactics in order to denigrate my contributions. These strategies are all too transparent to every unbiased reader. Onefortyone 09:14, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I have no tactics other than to comment on the malicious effects of your edits. IMHO only money could motivate anyone to spend so much time on such unsupportable edits and this has made others ponder the possibility you're David Bret. Your adroitness in following (and your familiarity with) WP policy, which you use to mock and abuse the encyclopedia, along with other stuff I won't mention here, indicate you have a regular WP username (that of an admin, as it happens), ironic since you tend to accuse people who don't accept your sources of being sockpuppets of others who don't accept your sources. Finally, you do seem to have subtle problems with the comprehension of nuance in written English. My remarks have been consistent. Please stop vandalizing Misplaced Pages. Wyss 15:20, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Summary of the argument for newcomers

Here is basically what's going on: a user called Onefortyone tries to change Google results of "Elvis gay", so that those results lead to a book by David Bret. Bret is a sensationalist writer who is said to be "careless with facts". To support 141's point of view that Elvis was gay, he gives the following sources:

1) A book by David Bret 2) An unpublished manuscript by Elvis' stepmother 3) An article in the National Enquirer 4) A photograph of Elvis and some famous gay guy, which supposedly demonstrates Elvis' homosexuality.

An overwhelming consensus of editors here ( many of whom really dislike each other ) have agreed that all those sources are worth zero. Onefortyone often tries to make the point that his POV is suppressed because of us and the Elvis community as a whole. This is not true, though: my only contribution to the Elvis article was to mention the wide-spread belief that he died of constipation ( obviously, I'm not an Elvis fan ). The fact is most of us don't even like Elvis, but we feel that we have to take a stand against misuse of Misplaced Pages for financial purposes ( messing with Google searches ).

So far, the argument is still not resolved and the article ought to still be "protected". (129.241.134.241 16:26, 17 September 2005 (UTC))

As I've said repeatedly, "independent" is not relevant to "credible," "reliable" or "encyclopedic." Wyss 16:34, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Please note that 141's references to James Dean and Nick Adams, even in the context of this single play, appear to be unsupported PoV. Wyss 16:28, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

The Dee Presley material is thoroughly discussed (as discredited and in some senses non-existent) in the talk archives. The rumours about EP and his mother are unsubstantiated so I don't see how they could be helpful in an encyclopedia article. Wyss 16:33, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Verification of assertion(s) made by User:Onefortyone:

I, User:Ted Wilkes, left the following message on User Talk:Onefortyone:

To User:Onefortyone/Anon 80,141. et al:

• You inserted on the Talk:Elvis Presley page this edit that stated as fact the following:
  • "In his book, The Boy who would be King: An Intimate Portrait of Elvis Presley by his Cousin (1990), Earl Greenwood, Elvis's second cousin who paled around with Elvis for many years before and after his success, says that Elvis had a affair with Nick Adams."

- I decided to invest a $1.15, and ordered a copy of "The Boy Who Would Be King : An Intimate Portrait of Elvis Presley By His Cousin" by Earl Greenwood from here. Would you please provide the direct quote from the book and the page number so I can verify your assertion. Thank you.

- Ted Wilkes 17:54, 19 September 2005 (UTC)