| Revision as of 05:41, 11 September 2008 editRussavia (talk | contribs)78,741 edits →2008 Red Square demonstration: comment/question← Previous edit | Revision as of 05:44, 11 September 2008 edit undoKNewman (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users9,805 editsNo edit summaryNext edit → | ||
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| ****] is Georgian:) ] (]) 05:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | ****] is Georgian:) ] (]) 05:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | ||
| *****I know ;) Hence why I asked...just a friendly dig is all. I think Kober is in there too. ;) --] <sup>] ]</sup> 05:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | *****I know ;) Hence why I asked...just a friendly dig is all. I think Kober is in there too. ;) --] <sup>] ]</sup> 05:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | ||
| ******Hi there, Biophys! Be it known that if a group of people wants to organize a demonstration of any kind on the Red Square, they have to obtain a permission from the authorities. I'm pretty sure that we mortals can't obtain this permission in 99.9% of the cases, it's the same as asking for a permission to have a barbeque on the White House lawn or sit down for a beer on a stoop at Downing Street, 10. Red Square is really a sacred place, it's that simple. This is why people get pushed around or arrested by the militia on the Red Square, so whenever things like this demonstration happen on the Red Square, there's no need for the freedom-of-speech hysteria. It's absolutely groundless. ] (]) 05:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Question''' I notice that the Russian article after being deleted has been moved to Wikinews. That is obviously a much more suitable location for it, is this able to be transwikied also? --] <sup>] ]</sup> 05:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | *'''Question''' I notice that the Russian article after being deleted has been moved to Wikinews. That is obviously a much more suitable location for it, is this able to be transwikied also? --] <sup>] ]</sup> 05:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 05:44, 11 September 2008
2008 Red Square demonstration
- 2008 Red Square demonstration (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
WP is not a newswire, nor a soapbox, nor a blog, nor an avenue for advocacy of ones political goals. The article is overdependent on blogs for sources, is written in an overtly WP:NPOV way (aftermath? 7 people hold up a sign, they get told to move on, there is no aftermath). There is no correspondent article in .ru wiki, so I really have to question WP:NOTADVOCATE here. Russavia 19:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- The article was deleted from the Russian version for the political reasons. The subject is significant, because this is the only orotest against suppression of freedom of neighbours that took place at the central place in Russian Federation during the Russian–Georgian war. Therefore, the article should not be deleted. dima (talk) 05:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Political reasons? Or the same reasons as presented here? And your reason is not true. First off, there was a protest outside the Georgian embassy against Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia are neighbours whose freedom is being suppressed) and there was an anti-war protest of 300-400 people in Moscow. Even if it was the only protest, there is policy which clearly needs to be looked at which overrides the desires of 7 people holding up a banner. --Russavia 05:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- How dare the Georgians suppress their freedoms? Don't worry, mother Russia will
annex them and suppress the citizens itselfprotect them andethnically cleansedeal with those annoying Georgians. Seriously, your comment is so politically biased, I don't even know where to start. - makomk (talk) 12:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- How dare the Georgians suppress their freedoms? Don't worry, mother Russia will
- Political reasons? Or the same reasons as presented here? And your reason is not true. First off, there was a protest outside the Georgian embassy against Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia are neighbours whose freedom is being suppressed) and there was an anti-war protest of 300-400 people in Moscow. Even if it was the only protest, there is policy which clearly needs to be looked at which overrides the desires of 7 people holding up a banner. --Russavia 05:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- The article was deleted from the Russian version for the political reasons. The subject is significant, because this is the only orotest against suppression of freedom of neighbours that took place at the central place in Russian Federation during the Russian–Georgian war. Therefore, the article should not be deleted. dima (talk) 05:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Well, anti-Georgian rallies are completely in line with the policies of the current Russian regime and they don't meet any resistance from the authorities. On the other hand, political dissent has become so rare in modern Russia that I consider the 2008 Red Square demonstration to be a notable one. Hence, my vote Keep. I would not also object to the merger with 1968 Red Square demonstration as a last resort.--Kober 05:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Keep, trim down, improve. Political dissent is not rare, what is rare is rather harmless outcome to the detainees. Not accused of extremism, not shot in the head in police car - sort of christmas tale in August. NVO (talk) 09:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Weak Keep. If it was just seven people waving a banner on its own, it wouldn't be notable. Considering the symbolism - and more importantly the police reaction and political climate - and it becomes obvious that this is far more than that. - makomk (talk) 12:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. Any notable event described in news qualifies for inclusion. The event is clearly notable, as follows from publications in multiple reliable sources. It is also notable in the historical context of a similar demonstration in 1968. No evidence of soapboxing. The sources are not blogs. NPOV problems if any should be fixed without deleting the article.Biophys (talk) 16:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. Agree fully with Kober on this. Närking (talk) 19:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
- Delete. Article about this demonstration in Russian Misplaced Pages had been already deleted as non-notable. Misplaced Pages is not a collection of current news events or backup copy of personal political blogs.DonaldDuck (talk) 04:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Delete Misplaced Pages is not news. There does not seem to be any enduring impact beyond the flurry of initial news coverage. RayAYang (talk) 07:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Delete WP:NOT#NEWS, not notable, a measly 7 protesters, obviously a soapboxing article for anti-Russia/Russian government users. No enduring impact beyond initial minor news coverage. That it was "covered in multiple reliable sources" is neither here nor there, all news both big and minor is covered by multiple sources, that's how "news" works.--Miyokan (talk) 12:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Keep notable, neutral, objective, nobody cares about the Russian wikipedia. Ostap 15:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Delete. As I said before, the described event is nothing more that a disorderly conduct incident (what they call мелкое хулиганство in Russia) and not some notable demonstration worth paying attention to (unlike a Dissenters March, for instance). Moreover, I tend to think that this whole event was a pre-paid provocation, but that's my personal opinion. KNewman (talk) 19:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Interesting comment of yours. The 1968 Red Square demonstration was also described by the Soviet authorities as a disorderly conduct ("hooliganism"), and participants declared "insane". Perhaps this demonstration is also the beginning of a new dissident era in Russia. Highly notable!Biophys (talk) 22:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Do you have a reliable source for this being a new era? Misplaced Pages is not a publisher of original thought nor do we allow original research. A short (and very limited at that) burst of news does not create notability. Additionally, when the photographer who took these photos just happens to be the very same person who's very blog where this has created a sensation and all this talk, can indicate there is advocacy going on here. At the very most, it deserves a passing mention at 1968 Red Square demonstration, not its own article. Can I ask Biophys, which one are you in the photos? ;) --Russavia 22:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Biophys is Georgian:) DonaldDuck (talk) 05:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
- I know ;) Hence why I asked...just a friendly dig is all. I think Kober is in there too. ;) --Russavia 05:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
- Hi there, Biophys! Be it known that if a group of people wants to organize a demonstration of any kind on the Red Square, they have to obtain a permission from the authorities. I'm pretty sure that we mortals can't obtain this permission in 99.9% of the cases, it's the same as asking for a permission to have a barbeque on the White House lawn or sit down for a beer on a stoop at Downing Street, 10. Red Square is really a sacred place, it's that simple. This is why people get pushed around or arrested by the militia on the Red Square, so whenever things like this demonstration happen on the Red Square, there's no need for the freedom-of-speech hysteria. It's absolutely groundless. KNewman (talk) 05:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
- I know ;) Hence why I asked...just a friendly dig is all. I think Kober is in there too. ;) --Russavia 05:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
- Biophys is Georgian:) DonaldDuck (talk) 05:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
- Do you have a reliable source for this being a new era? Misplaced Pages is not a publisher of original thought nor do we allow original research. A short (and very limited at that) burst of news does not create notability. Additionally, when the photographer who took these photos just happens to be the very same person who's very blog where this has created a sensation and all this talk, can indicate there is advocacy going on here. At the very most, it deserves a passing mention at 1968 Red Square demonstration, not its own article. Can I ask Biophys, which one are you in the photos? ;) --Russavia 22:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Interesting comment of yours. The 1968 Red Square demonstration was also described by the Soviet authorities as a disorderly conduct ("hooliganism"), and participants declared "insane". Perhaps this demonstration is also the beginning of a new dissident era in Russia. Highly notable!Biophys (talk) 22:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
- Question I notice that the Russian article after being deleted has been moved to Wikinews. That is obviously a much more suitable location for it, is this able to be transwikied also? --Russavia 05:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)