Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:49, 4 October 2005

I have found that they are indeed official websites. I contacted a webmaster and even he agreed that it would be an easy mistake to make. Nonetheless, I was wrong. I apologize to you for accusing you of vandalism by adding them. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:29, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Welcome

Greetings and welcome to wikipedia. Please excuse the rude treatment you've received from the administrator who has engaged most of your attention thus far. He has a bad habit of disregarding Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers, especially where a newcomer has made edits to an article or subject he deems to be his territory. You should not let a hostile reception deter you from participating here and I hope you will stay. While editing I encourage you to review Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines located here. Please make a good faith attempt at abiding by each, and if you believe that another user you have encountered is not doing so a proper recourse is to inform him/her of it. Thanks and welcome once again. Rangerdude 23:30, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Checking in

I'd be happy to help out here. The first thing I will do is protect you. That is my number one goal. Next, the article.

In that regard, do not make one more edit to the article until you and I go over 3RR and what it is. You want to avoid an edit war.

Check in with me and we can chat. If you like, we can go to IRC freenode.net if you have ChatZilla, or we can chat on Yahoo. paul klenk 06:36, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Jonah, I have evaluated the Biff Rose page for possible violations of 3RR (there are none in the period I checked), and have left comments on its talk page, with one additional comment to you. Let me know if you have questions. Also, although it may be justified, I can't think of any good purpose to the remarks about stalking (except those in messages) which you've placed as sort of "notifications" on your page. Even old messages, which eventually become stale -- should be eventually removed and archived, keeping your talk page -- and therefore you -- free of any negativity. This is a complicated place, and you see to be doing very well. Just let me know if you have any questions, and thanks for coming to me for help. paul klenk

wikistalking

Hi - I saw your message that Willmcw is harassing and stalking you as well. As you may know I'm currently seeking arbitration against him for harassing me over a period of several months. From what you describe he appears to be stalking you as well. He frequently does this and it's almost always aimed at chasing an editor he doesn't like off of wikipedia. He's a prime example of the very worst kind of editors here and unfortunately he has many friends in the admin pool who aid and abet his dirty work (not all admins are like that though...fortunately). My advice would be to begin assembling a list of the evidence of cases where he has harassed you and any case where he's broken wikipedia policy. You should then consider posting a complaint about him to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, asking for a neutral outside party to help. Be sure to note the reasons why his behavior is a problem - it violates the good faith assumption, it is uncivil, it is disruptive, and it is a form of harassment. There are also several strong precedents in previous arbcom cases that have found wikistalking to be a bannable offense. Unfortunately Willmcw is very vengeful and will likely attempt to retaliate against you for doing this - either by stepping up the stalking or posting a counter-complaint against you (or both). Don't let it get to you though. The best defense against his type is a good offense - both to keep him busy and to direct community scrutiny onto his behavior, which he often tries to slip into backpages and obscure articles where he thinks he can get away with violating wikipedia policy.

I have begun compiling a log of frivolous edits by Willmcw as evidence of WikiStalking, which I will submit as evidence if the Arbcom decides to accept this case. You may want to do the same. --HK 00:19, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Arriving here

Ah, someone had requested (on WP:RfD) the deletion of a redirect at Wikistalking (because it went from article space to Misplaced Pages: space). I was simply fixing all the pages that used it, before deleting it. (If you look at my edit, I just piped the link directly to the target.) Noel (talk) 02:33, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I suppose,

But if - Loran Frazier 05:22, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Biff

Jonah, I invested a great deal of time the other day trying to help and protect you. I have noticed your recent revert at Biff. I am advising you to undo your revert, for your own best interest. I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing something about what we're trying to do here. This is an attempt to help you, Jonah. paul klenk 01:18, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Here I am won't you please let this go now....Jonah Ayers 18:11, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

"The brown pigeon," Jonah? I'm afraid I have no idea of what you mean. -Sojambi Pinola 00:35, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Wow! I had it all wrong. Sorry. You're a wonderful guy, Jonah! You live near me. Let's meet for lunch and work this all out. Still don't know what the brown pigeon is, though. - Sojambi Pinola 06:52, 25 September 2005 (UTC) Ugh, this guy too

Marking edits

Jonah, it may have been a mistake, but you cannot mark an edit as "minor," as you did on the Biff page, when it obviously changes so much content, especially disputed content. Minor edits are for adding wiki edits, correcting spelling or spacing, and suchlike. This is why this feature is not made available to new accounts. When you abuse this feature, you also abuse the trust of your fellow editors, and they will become less and less willing to work with you. Please keep this in mind. paul klenk talk 22:37, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

?

Jonah, you seem quite upset about Biff Rose. I'll grant you from what I've read he is quite the racist. While that is personally upsetting to me as well, the article has to stick to facts with neutral language. I think the current wording is quite clear about his racism:

Rose's newer recordings are more controversial. His later songs make use of ethnic stereotypes and contain racist and anti-semitic language in their lyrics.

Do you have a problem with this wording?

I haven't studied the edit history overly much. But, it does seem like you've deleted a few facts about Biff that added some tiny bit of notability to what seems a rather tiny career. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like maybe you've done that because you don't like the man. That's not a good reason.

What I would support is a bit more detail on his racism, maybe another couple sentences, if it has produced any citable public controversy. In other words, if there is an existing controversy about his racism in the press or major websites or some such, I'm for reporting it in more detail. If there isn't, wikipedia isn't really the place to create a controversy. And given the character of his racism, if there isn't a public controversy it's only because Biff is currently a nobody. In that case, his current racism in his current works is really only a footnote to an expired career, so the current sentence seems quite sufficient.

Also, I think you would find it helpful in your wikipedia interactions to not have lists of vandals on your page. At least not unless you can back it up with an obvious case. I know many of those names, and I don't believe any of them is a vandal. So, the list tends to make people suspicious of you, rather than them. By the way, I tagged your ip address with a reference to your name. That's just so that people can track the conversation when they look at contributions; it's not an attack. Derex 02:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh oh oh ok.

Anonymous IP

Jonah,

Someone from an anonymous IP has taken credit for edits you have made under your logged-in. He has also claimed that he has come to me for help in the past, which he hasn't. However, you have.

Did you leave those messages to me under that anonymous IP, or is someone falsely claiming this? Either this anonymous IP is you, or it isn't. Which is it, please?

paul klenk 06:03, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

p.s. I object to having my name being placed under a list of "trouble makers and vandals" on this page. Further, I am an ally of no one. Please remove my name from this list. If you ever want to talk through this and work things out, I am happy to do so. This is an attempt to resolve a dispute. paul klenk 06:05, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

No way. This is useless. I'm not your pawn. You are a troublemaker. Make your accusations somewhere else. Jonah Ayers 06:17, 26 September 2005 (UTC) 06:17, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

A bore and a Bully

oneof my detractors-who has called me names, and rolledhiseyes, oh the horror, I tell you the horror ofbeing called a a bore and a bully. That's what he is. I say it again. A bore and a bully. Your tactics are grossly manipulative and agressive, hencebeinga bully. That you repeat them over and over makes you a bore.Jonah Ayers 23:56, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Jonah, please read this:

No personal attacks.

I have read it thoroughly and intend to abide by it. How about you?

Most recently, you are calling me "A bore and a bully." And here on your talk page, you are calling me and others "troublemakers" among other things. Care to reconsider this sort of behavior?

Thank you. -Sojambi Pinola 20:26, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism by Sojambi

He keeps removing my archive and posting it back on my page. I have alerted the authorities.

A bore and a Bully

The above title is Jonah's. After I left the following comment, it was immediately moved to an archive page and responded to only there, and the above title was added. It seems odd to archive something before it has ever appeared in public, but whatever. Here's my original comment: -Sojambi Pinola 17:44, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Jonah, please read this:

No personal attacks.

I have read it thoroughly and intend to abide by it. How about you?

Most recently, you are calling me "A bore and a bully." And here on your talk page, you are calling me and others "troublemakers" among other things. Care to reconsider this sort of behavior?

Thank you. -Sojambi Pinola 20:26, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Jonah's response, on the archive page, was as follows:

oneof my detractors-who has called me names, and rolledhiseyes, oh the horror, I tell you the horror ofbeing called a a bore and a bully. That's what he is. I say it again. A bore and a bully. Your tactics are grossly manipulative and agressive, hencebeinga bully. That you repeat them over and over makes you a bore.Jonah Ayers 23:56, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

To which I now respond, gently, simply and thusly: Whatever your opinion of me and the others, you are, nonetheless, violating the "no personal attack" rule of Misplaced Pages with this namecalling. Here, again, is the link to the official Misplaced Pages policy, fully explained and defined: No personal attacks. Again, I ask politely and with respectful seriousness: Care to reconsider this sort of behavior? Will you please cease in these personal attacks, and remove the existing ones (including the "troublemakers list") from this page? The people you are name-calling are not breaking the rules. From my understanding of Misplaced Pages policy, you are. I don't know what the further policy is, but in many communities, an official retraction would be considered appropriate as well.

Paul Klenk was within his rights, by official Misplaced Pages policy, to remove the personal attack on him from your page. He gave you an opportunity to do so, which you ignored. He announced his action to administrators, and took action according to the policies. That is not vandalism. -Sojambi Pinola 17:44, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Hope Seekr tries to make friends

Regarding Your Identity

I realize if you are a troll that this will only further embolden you, but I must make the assumption that you are a human being first and foremost. While I have had personal experience with vandalism by Steve espinola and various socket puppets, I do not recall *any* problems from your nick, per se, nor any cognizant evidence that you are — in fact — tied to him. In the end, I based my faith in that Will and the real Steve had probably done more research than me on the issue of your identity and had good reasons for assuming a relationship. So I'm coming directly to you. Could you at least tell me exactly when they started saying you were steve? Do you have any idea at all why they might make that assumption?

As far as wikipedia is concerned, yes it does seem over-political. I believe the #1 problem is the lack of restrictions to number of edits an article can receive per day. there should be a system were *all* new articles would be marked with the {{cleanup}} tag and after an article has been, in fact, decided to be clean (aka of good quality) — hopefully via community vote, like VfD — the page edits would be restricted, automatically, to 3 wiki edits per 24 hours by any one person and, say, 15 edits (very loose/changeable figure) by every one. — HopeSeekr of xMule (Talk) 12:12, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Further more, I empathetically denounce you adding me to the troublemakers list! I have never, as far as I recall, called YOU (Jonah Ayers) a sockpuppet or controller of sockpuppets. I have always referred to the controller of steve and others as Bob, since I have never known which, if any, was the master identity. Also, I recall reverting your edits maybe *once* but I know I have never wikistalked *your* edits as you simply have never massively vandalised pages that I have edited like Bob and his puppets. So, if you insist on calling me your enemy, then either show me where I have massively reverted your edits, called you a sockpuppet or a controller, or otherwise harrassed you. Or write me an apology on my talk page, remove negative mention of me from your own. You may just end up w/ me as an ally if you behave rationally. — HopeSeekr of xMule (Talk) 12:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

enough?

Never

read on== Most recent addition ==

Paul Klenk recently edited my page and removed material from it. No one came to my aid in this instance. This is another of the myriad ways in which this Wikipedian process exposes its inability to work in a fair manner. Klenk was listed on my troublemaker list, and by his action it seems this was a wise choice by me, as he came and vandalized my page. Jonah Ayers 16:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

You removed my comments twice about Misplaced Pages's No Personal Attacks policy. That would strongly imply that you have no intention of removing the personal attack. I'll give it another few hours....ooops, phone call....It said "Stay off the Brown Pigeon's talk page." The only person who has ever mentioned "the Brown Pigeon" to me is you. .

It would appear that you are calling my house??? That's a real problem. -Sojambi Pinola 21:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

It would appear you have become insane. how would I get your #? Don't add things here anymore. You are now spreading unsubstantiated rumors.Jonah Ayers 00:34, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Man! Headlines: Most Strage Motive: Man Kills Over Wiki Revision :O — HopeSeekr of xMule (Talk) 01:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

enough?

Never

read on

Most recent addition

Paul Klenk recently edited my page and removed material from it. No one came to my aid in this instance. This is another of the myriad ways in which this Wikipedian process exposes its inability to work in a fair manner. Klenk was listed on my troublemaker list, and by his action it seems this was a wise choice by me, as he came and vandalized my page. Jonah Ayers 16:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

You removed my comments twice about Misplaced Pages's No Personal Attacks policy. That would strongly imply that you have no intention of removing the personal attack. I'll give it another few hours....ooops, phone call....It said "Stay off the Brown Pigeon's talk page." The only person who has ever mentioned "the Brown Pigeon" to me is you. .

It would appear that you are calling my house??? That's a real problem. -Sojambi Pinola 21:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

It would appear you have become insane. how would I get your #? Don't add things here anymore. You are now spreading unsubstantiated rumors.Jonah Ayers 00:34, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Man! Headlines: Most Strage Motive: Man Kills Over Wiki Revision :O — HopeSeekr of xMule (Talk) 01:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Florida Cello weighs in, maybe needs to grow a pair

Re: Please Help

Jonah Ayers, while I'm not condoning anyone's actions here or saying anyone did anything wrong, I must give you a firm reminder that personal attacks, such as calling someone a vandal or wiki-stalker, does nothing but raise the tensions. While I appreciate and understand your frustration, doing so accomplishes nothing. Also, I think this dispute has gone on long enough — I would recommend all parties read up on the dispute resolution process. Thanks! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | W_S 13:56, 4 October 2005 (UTC)