Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:01, 14 November 2008

Trains: in UK Project‑class

Trains Portal This page is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list and the Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Associated projects or task forces: /  This page is supported by WikiProject UK Railways.

Archives

September - December 2006 January - April 2007 April - June 2007 May/June - July 2007 August - September 2007 September - October 2007 October - November 2007 November 2007 - January 2008 January - February 2008 February - May 2008 May - June 2008 June -

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

• WT:RAIL
• WT:Rail

The UK Transport Wiki

Hi All,

I am creating a wiki all about Transport in The UK. As this WikiProject is about UK Railways, it would fall under the scope of the UK Transport Wiki. If you are interested please leave a message on my user talk or on My UK Transport Wiki user talk.

Thanks - Dudleybus 09:15, 4 June 2008 (BST)

Assessment - Final Stages (less than 350 articles)

Many thanks to all those that have worked to give all of the UK related articles an initial assessment. Over the last few months the number of articles to be rated has plummetted from over 1500+ to just todays figure of about 350. We now need only a small push to get all of the UK articles assessed. Once complete the work required to assess newly added articles will be minimal and the more important work can begin on getting the articles improved, starting with the highest priority ones. Well done everyone for you efforts, we are in the final straight.Olana North (talk) 07:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Now just 325 left to do and articles begginning with the letters "S", "T" and "W". Please help to complete this important exercise. It will help us to prioritise our work in developing articles. Olana North (talk) 19:13, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Now fewer than 300 articles, and just "S" and "T" outstanding. Olana North (talk) 11:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Now fewer than 250 articles. Pyrotec (talk) 14:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I've just added one to the list (I don't want to assess articles I created myself) ;-)  —  Tivedshambo  _(t/c) 16:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Assessment now completed. We have zero articles left to assess. Olana North (talk) 08:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Good work, all! EdJogg (talk) 11:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

User:Pigsonthewing has now issued an indefinite block to User:Olana North and the total is now 76 un-assessed articles. The indefinite block is rather strange, as User:Pigsonthewing not only raised a complaint, but handed down the block too. Its all too "Judge Dredd" like for my taste ... a case of the defense attorney becoming the judge and jury in a case. 68.204.210.238 (talk) 18:27, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Pigsonthewing only added the template after Olana North was blocked by CBDunkerson: . The template had already been added by Olana North, but was removed as the user was not blocked at the time: . —Snigbrook 17:11, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations to everybody as all articles tagged have now been assessed on quality. There is now only the 70+ to be judged on the importance to the project. Simply south (talk) 20:45, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Image needs replacement

Hello all...

An image used in the Birkenhead North railway station article, specifically Image:BirkenheadNorth.jpg, has a little bit of a licensing issue. The image was uploaded back when the rules around image uploading were less restrictive. It is presumed that the uploader was willing to license the picture under the GFDL license but was not clear in that regard. As such, the image, while not at risk of deletion, is likely not clearly licensed to allow for free use in any future use of this article. If anyone has an image that can replace this, or can go take one and upload it, it would be best.

You have your mission, take your camera and start clicking.--Jordan 1972 (talk) 01:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

A new photograph of this station has just been added to Geograph: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1000863 Edward (talk) 23:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I added the photograph to the article. Edward (talk) 07:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Railway station articles missing geographic coordinates: you can help!

I've made a list of UK railway station articles which are missing geographic coordinates, which you can find at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject UK Railways/railway station articles missing coordinates. There were 1243 such UK railway station article missing geographic coordinates, as of the time of writing.

You can also find similar articles using the Misplaced Pages:CatScan tool, using this CatScan search.

These articles are currently marked with {{coord missing}} templates, which need replacing with filled in {{coord}} templates containing their latitude/longitude data. You can find out how to do this at the Misplaced Pages:Geocoding how-to for WikiProject members. Please let me know if this is useful! -- The Anome (talk) 23:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

...or better still, replaced the template with coordiantes in the 'latitude' and 'longitude' parameters of the station infobox. (Don't know your coordinates? Find the station on Multimap and the coordinates are stated at the bottom of the page). Geof Sheppard (talk) 12:54, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

There is a searchable online set of OS maps from the 40s/50s such as this one for Millers Dale which mark old railway stations. Occuli (talk) 15:06, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Note: all currently-operated UK railway stations should now have been automatically geocoded by my bot, so the only stations left should be historical stations. Nevertheless, Beeching to the contrary, they're all part of UK railway history, and they all need geocoding. -- The Anome (talk) 12:08, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Would it be possible for the bot to go through stations with existing gridrefs and convert these automatically to coords, leaving the gridrefs entry in place? Apologies if the bot is already doing this. Lamberhurst (talk) 12:30, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe that those listed do not contain grid references, either; the bot should have checked them for this when it tagged the articles. Providing National Grid references is OK when only grid refs are easily available, because the bot can automatically perform the conversion at a later date; however, when both are available, adding WGS84 lat/long (as used on Google Maps, Multimap etc.) is always best. -- The Anome (talk) 14:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Grayrigg derailment

The RAIB final report has been released. Mjroots (talk) 13:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Line from Finsbury Park

Does anyone know what this freight line is from Finsbury Park to just east of Highbury & Islington? For the complex (perhaps too detailed but it is clear), i have created {{FP-H&I RDT}}. Simply south (talk) 20:33, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Sectional appendices

Would it be acceptable to cite sectional appendices as sources for line speeds and track layout? I am thinking this would not be acceptable as they are "PRIVATE for use of authorised persons only" but anyone can buy them online now.ZoeL (talk) 10:27, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd say yes, but you may be better to take this question to the Help Desk. Mjroots (talk) 11:14, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

SYPTE ≠ TSY

I notice that user 88.105.91.46 has been changing the text of the SYPTE links on station infoboxes to TSY. The PTE is still SYPTE, TSY is a brand name not used solely by SYPTE and isn't the same as the PTE. I know, I work there! Is it worth me reverting them all? Talltim (talk) 15:10, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

X to Y Line

I recall in recent months there was a discussion on a talk page about whether articles should be named "X to Y Line" or "X-Y Line". But I can't find the discussion or remember its conclusion. Does this mean anything to anyone? --Dr Greg (talk) 12:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I also vaguely remember the discussion, however I cannot get excited as to whether it is "X to Y Line" or "X-Y Line" and be content if the titles (whichever form they currently use) are left as is. --Stewart 13:51, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Coordinates now located for 233 disused railway stations

I've now matched the list of Misplaced Pages articles about UK railway station lacking geographical coordinates with the list of articles at the SubBrit disused railway station archive, and produced User:The Anome/disused station reconciliation, which lists both, together with the coordinates for each station. -- The Anome (talk) 19:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

List of LMS locomotives as of 1947-12-31

Not sure if this is part of your project but I came across List of LMS locomotives as of 1947-12-31, it had two date entries in the intro LMS locomotives as of 1947-12-31. This date is significant because nationalisation of the Big Four occurred the next day, 1948-1-1. which I changed to 31 December 1947. This date is significant because nationalisation of the Big Four occurred the next day, 1 January 1948. . The date representation should really reflect the British date usage and the manual of style indicates that the XXXX-XX-XX should not really be used. The article originator has reverted the change without explanation. The article name should also be changed to List of LMS locomotives as of 31 December 1947 but I just thought I would bring it to the notice of the project before nominating it for a move to see what the opinion is of others. The article see also indicates that lists of LNER, GWR and Southern using the same date format are also planned. MilborneOne (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

An alternative approach would be to have a List of British Railways locomotives as of 1 January 1948, which would avoid the need to have four separate lists for each of the "Big Four" and a fifth list for independant companies which were absorbed into British Railways on 1 January 1948. Mjroots (talk) 09:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

That wouldn't really solve the problem--the issue here seems to be the formatting of the date in the article title, not the subject of the list. An alternative title would be "List of LMS locomotives at nationalisation", which avoids the problem of "31 December 1947" vs "1947-12-31". --RFBailey (talk) 02:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Assumes (a bad thing) that you known that 1948 was when nationalisation occurred. Ludgate (talk) 10:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

That's true, but if you don't then 31 December 1947 is just a random date and therefore not notable, it may as well be a list of locomotives on 1 July 1937 or 13 November 1938. Geof Sheppard (talk) 08:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. --RFBailey (talk) 14:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

LMS Sentinel 7164 AfD

The LMS Sentinel 7164 article has been AfD'd. Mjroots (talk) 07:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Highly unlikely that notability could be proved for this loco.

Article has been 'preserved' at the companion Wiki, Train Spotting World by user Fiddle Faddle (talk).

-- EdJogg (talk) 11:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Blackpool

Should the T in in tramway be capitalised? See Talk:Blackpool tramway. Simply south (talk) 13:55, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

When rail articles face deletion

Misplaced Pages has necessarily stern rules about notability and verifiability which do not always sit well with (eg) a railfan or train enthusiast community. A couple of years ago, maybe a little less, Train Spotting World was started as a companion wiki, populated to a great initial extent with properly licenced WP articles as a basis. Since then it has "rescued" a good number of articles that were in danger of deletion. Word of mouth has spread this around many WP rail enthusiasts, and there has been quite substantial work by many of them to enhance the site along different lines (pun intended?) from WP.

When a rail article faces deletion at Misplaced Pages please feel totally at liberty to migrate that article to Train Spotting World (giving the correct credit to Misplaced Pages under the GFDL).

This has just happened with Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/LMS Sentinel 7164 as has been stated a little bit above this note, and thus an article that is not at all notable here is preserved there.

The challenge is letting folk here know about the service without the perfectly reasonable question "is this spam?". It would be very useful to rail enthusiasts to know about a substantially more relaxed wiki, but, not unreasonably, WP is hesitant about such links to other sites. Of course, if Train Spotting World were, at some future point, entered into the WP interwiki table that would solve the matter. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 14:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a good thing that the article has been copied over to TSW. That way the editor who created it won't feel that their work has been a total waste of time. It should be noted that when I notify an article has been AfD'd, it is not canvassing for a vote one way or another, but merely a courtesy to the relevant WikiProject. Mjroots (talk) 15:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you completely in all the points that you make. I would never dream of suggesting, btw, that you were canvassing "votes", since a neutral announcement of "this is happening" is precisely that.

How can TSW's existence and much more relaxed approach be publicised without the very real potential danger of accusations of spam? The site wishes to work alongside WP as an adjunct to it for editors whose enthusiasm is far broader than correctly notable and verifiable articles here. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

For the benefit of anyone who might need it, articles deleted from Misplaced Pages (other than attack pages, copyright violations and libels) don't just vanish into the ether but go to the retirement home of Deletionpedia, should anyone need the text of deleted articles for whatever reason. – iridescent 15:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Never knew that. It's an interesting place as a repository, but it doesn't allow edits. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

First I'd heard of it, too. But it wouldn't be much of an archive if you could edit it...

...Oh, I see what you mean -- TSW allows editing and can hence keep the article 'alive'.

EdJogg (talk) 19:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

GFDL still applies there, though, so (provided it's credited etc etc) you can take the text of a deleted WP article from Deletionpedia, complete with Wiki-markup (under the "view source" tab), and import it into another Wiki (or back to Misplaced Pages, for that matter – if the article was speedy/prod deleted rather than via AfD, you're perfectly within your rights to repost it as G4 only applies to material deleted via AfD). – iridescent 22:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

AfD notification section?

Should there be a section somewhere where AfDs can be notified to the Project? Either a section on the project page or a permanent section on this talk page that is not to be archived. Mjroots (talk) 08:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Canterberry/Olana North

As the people who worked most closely with him, throwing this to everyone here (particularly users like EdJogg who worked closely with him) – I've just noticed the thread a couple above this, and I think it's time to unblock Canterberry/Olana North, provided he and Lucy-marie agree to stay well away from each other. The flare-up that led to the pair of them being blocked is now more than a year old; the block on him was IMO intended to be indefinite meaning "unspecified" rather than "infinite"; Lucy-marie, the other party in that dispute, is unblocked and (more or less) a model contributor; I'm not aware of anything particularly disruptive from any of his accounts since then (listed here if anyone wants to review the histories more fully); and he always did some good work cleaning up loose ends on Southern, NSE etc related articles that nobody else bothered with. Anyone have any thoughts? (Canterberry, feel free to comment here as well. Obviously, if there's a consensus to unblock you and you do go back to hassling L-m, I'll reblock and rangeblock your IP as necessary, but I assume you have enough sense not to; if you do come back I'll also warn her not to bait you either.) – iridescent 01:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

(Seeing as how I'm mentioned...) Not sure which thread you mean. I've never understood why the punishments were so harsh, which is (one reason) why I had been supporting him. The general feeling I had from reading the admin comments was "this editor should never be allowed back on Misplaced Pages", and this didn't seem fair. Anyway, I have no problem with him being unblocked, and if he should return I hope that he will learn from the various previous experiences, recognise when a discussion is heading in an unfortunate direction and learn to step away.... EdJogg (talk) 01:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

No objection to Canterberry being unblocked. Olana North should stay blocked as a sockpuppet. As stated above, any problems and the block can be reinstated by an admin. Mjroots (talk) 08:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

No, no, no!!! No person shall bo doing anything of the sort, lest they wish to incur the same treatment. WP policy is quite clear on this, and I refer you to WP:SOCK which states "sock puppet uses are forbidden and warrant aggressive approaches to protect the encyclopedia from their actions". The words "aggressive approaches" are bought to your attention. This means ZERO TOLERANCE. The community must stand firm and resist any attempt to unblock any of the accounts listed as being operated by Canterberry, and Olana North is one of many as shown by this Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Canterberry. I shall use WP policies to achieve a proscecution against prevent any unblocking. 81.144.251.46 (talk) 09:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC) Pigsonthewing

Hmm, is that a legal threat? I think WP:DUCK could apply here. Mjroots (talk) 09:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I am rather inclined to suggest that Misplaced Pages:Don't call a spade a spade should be applied here, instead. It contains some very good advice, and Pigsonthewing, who has a history of 'issues' with Canterberry (and others?) would do well to heed it. ("Let he who has no sin, cast the first stone..." ??)

I note from WP:SOCK: "...in extreme cases being banned from Misplaced Pages." (emphasis mine). My POV is that Canterberry was NOT such an extreme case (AFAIK), and therefore the discipline applied was excessive. My reading of WP:SOCK does not suggest the level of intolerance proposed by Pigsonthewing.

EdJogg (talk) 13:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The block that I imposed on Olana North (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and hence Canterberry (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) although he was already blocked), MUST stay in place as I did so after obtaining the explicit consent of the WP community via the appropriate channels (Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts and Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents . I refer you to the relevant block logs. 81.144.251.46 (talk) 14:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC) Pigsonthewing

Approximate coordinates for about 500 disused stations

I've made a list of approximate geographic coordinates for disused stations, extracted from the http://www.npemap.org.uk/ URLs linked from those pages: see User:The Anome/npemap.org.uk URLs. Unfortunately, many of them are up to 1km off from the real coordinates of the station. Would this data be useful for geocoding articles that are currently lacking geographic coordinates? Would anyone be interested in spot-checking some of them to check for systematic errors in my conversions? -- The Anome (talk) 16:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Project-Class rail transport pages
• NA-importance rail transport pages
• NA-Class UK Railways pages
• NA-importance UK Railways pages
• All WikiProject Trains pages