Misplaced Pages

Talk:Mysore literature in Kannada: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 23:04, 17 December 2008 editFowler&fowler (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers62,970 editsm →Name change: What about the period 1900–1947?: boldfacing← Previous edit Revision as of 23:24, 17 December 2008 edit undoSarvagnya (talk | contribs)9,152 edits rm vios of WP:TALK and abuse of the talk page... this is not a personal scratchpad...Next edit →
Line 39: Line 39:
::That's not what is at stake here. The page name needs to be changed back to ]. One of the points of the FAR (My concerns#5) has been that both the literature section and the mother article have never been about Kannada literature ''within'' the ], and that among other things they have included non-Kingdom-of-Mysore literature through the artifice of sections like , which describe the Kannada literature of surrounding kingdoms. You need to explain why you are doing this now and why these latest changes cannot be accommodated in more "Contemporary developments." ]] 22:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC) ::That's not what is at stake here. The page name needs to be changed back to ]. One of the points of the FAR (My concerns#5) has been that both the literature section and the mother article have never been about Kannada literature ''within'' the ], and that among other things they have included non-Kingdom-of-Mysore literature through the artifice of sections like , which describe the Kannada literature of surrounding kingdoms. You need to explain why you are doing this now and why these latest changes cannot be accommodated in more "Contemporary developments." ]] 22:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
::::It is you who needs to explain why you linked one of your issues to a sub-article, when the FAR is about the main article. Sub-articles are meant to be expanded and that is what I did. I dont need to explain anything. I have made 27,000 edits on wiki, did I explain them all to you?] (]) 23:37, 16 December 2008 (UTC) ::::It is you who needs to explain why you linked one of your issues to a sub-article, when the FAR is about the main article. Sub-articles are meant to be expanded and that is what I did. I dont need to explain anything. I have made 27,000 edits on wiki, did I explain them all to you?] (]) 23:37, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

==A record of the creation of this page and its name changes==
{| border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" align="center" width="90%" style="background-color: #EEEEEE;"
|-----
|
;Fowler&fowler's record of page name changes:
#The page was created, as ''']''', by ], with .
##In the page ], then being prepared for an FA-run, a ''literature'' section was added with '''''' (edit summary, "literature"), with "hat note" at the top linking to ''']'''.
##During the period mid-September 2007 to mid-October 2007, ''this'' page was copy edited by, among others, ] and ]; see .
#In '''''', with '''edit summary''', "moved ] to ]: '''consistency with other Kingdom of Mysore sub-articles'''," one of the copy-editors, ] changed the name of the article to ''']'''.
#In '''''', with edit summary, "moved ] to ]: All the writings described were written in Kannada language," ] changed the name of the page to ''']'''.
##The ] article became a ''''''.
##The opening statement of the FAR, says in ], "(Violation ] The article makes errors of what could be called chronological-spatial correspondence. It includes under the cultural achievements of the "Kingdom of Mysore," the achievements made in regions that were not contemporaneously part of the Mysore kingdom, but that came to be included only later in time, and sometimes only briefly then.... discussed at greater length in the daughter article ]. That daughter article has many more errors of this sort: indeed its sub-section, ] suggests that the primary author is not unaware of this problem."
#In '''''', with edit summary, "moved ] to ]: Covers poets and writers over the entire Kannada speaking region," ] changed the page name to ''']''', without any prior or concurrent discussion on this talk page or in the FAR.
]] 00:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC) Last Updated. ]] 21:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
|}

==Name change: What about the period 1900–1947?==
{| border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" align="center" width="90%" style="background-color: #EEEEEE;"
|-----
|
The page ''']''' included the literature of the "Kingdom of Mysore" until the year 1947 (when the ''Princely State of Mysore'' acceded to the ]); in other words, the page included the literature of the period 1900–1947. By changing the page name to ''']''' the primary author, ''']''', is not only changing—without any prior discussion on this talk page—the geographical range of the literature, but also the chronological range. Readers of this page, which is the mother page of the ''Literature'' sub-section of the History FA ''']''', will ask:

*What about the literature of the period 1900–1947 in the "Kingdom of Mysore"?

;Here is a brief outline of the coverage of Kannada literature of the period 1900–1947 on this page:

#On 31 August 2007, a week after its creation, this page, then ''']''', had a section ''''''
#At the time of the promotion of its "super-article"/mother page, ], to an FA in early November 2007, this page—then ''']'''—still had a section on ''''''
#A year later, at 22:46 9 November 2008, this page, still ''']''', continued to have the same section '''''' and included sentences such as, "Modern Kannada literature gained momentum under the patronage of King Krishnaraja Wodeyar IV (1902-1940)."
#A week later, at 02:31 14 November 2008, the page now renamed, ''']''', still had a section ''''''.
#After ''this'' history of including the Kannada literature of the period 1900 to 1947, the page was renamed ''']''' in .
##A few minutes later, at 00:51 16 December 2008, this page had a new sections, and . Whether, the vaguely finessed "''Developments'' in ''early'' 20th century," is an artifice for abandoning explicit responsibility for the literature of the period 1900–1947, remains to be seen. ("Early 20th century" usually doesn't include the period up to the middle of the century, and "developments in" is usually different from "description of")
##Moreover, the page still continues to be the mother article for the literature section in the page ]; the latter "kingdom" was a realm that continued to exist until 1947. All the other culture-related sections of the ''Kingdom of Mysore'' page, devote a lot of space to the period 1900–1947; see for example, the ] section.
]] 22:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
|}

==Sources used in this article==
{| border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" align="center" width="90%" style="background-color: #EEEEEE;"
|-----
|
#On 16 September 2007, just before it underwent its first round of copy-edits, this page, ''i.e.'' ] had . Of these, some
##40 footnotes referred to
### {{cite book |last=Pranesh|first=Meera Rajaram|title=Musical Composers during Wodeyar Dynasty (1638-1947 A.D.)|year= 2003|publisher=Vee Emm Publications|location=Bangalore|isbn=}}, which is
#### a Bangalore University ''Music'' Department Dissertation, which was
#### published locally in Bangalore by a local publisher (i.e. not India-wide), and which has
#### no ISBN information;
##of the remaining footnotes, some 20 referred to
###{{cite book |last=Narasimhacharya|first=R|title=History of Kannada Literature|year= 1988|publisher=Asian Educational Services|isbn=81-206-0303-6}}, which is,
####Narasimhacharya's 1934 ''History of Kannada Literature'', whose facsimile reprint was being cited—some 70 years after Narasimhacharya's 1936 death— as Narasimhacharya (1988);
## and the remaining 10 odd to
###{{cite book |last= Kamath|first= Suryanath U.|title= A concise history of Karnataka : from pre-historic times to the present|year= 2001|publisher= Jupiter books|location= Bangalore|oclc= 7796041}} which is
#### a Karnataka college text book, which is printed in new "editions" every year, (please )
#### has with no ISBN information,
#### written by a former Reader in History, Bangalore University, who has
##### on the topic "Mysore," in Google Scholar, out of a total of in the Social Sciences and Humanities published between 1970 and 2008, who was
#####also the Chairman of the Editorial Committee of middle- and high-school text-books introduced in his home state of ] in the late-1990s. The text-books garnered a review titled, , in the magazine '']''. Later, India's ]-led government implemented some of the ideas in Karnataka's pioneering textbooks at an all-India level. Those textbooks in turn received international press coverage, for example, in the review, titled, , in the ], who was
#####also featured in a newspaper article titled, , which has been on such websites as (for meaning of "Hindutva" see ]). Dr. Kamath's ideas have also been featured on Misplaced Pages, for example, on the page ], and who has
##### espoused ] in his closing remarks in an interview on , "The volunteers of organizations such as ] need to rise to occasion to influence young minds into greater values of life."
#Will add more text here. ]] 20:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC) Last updated ]] 22:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
|}

Revision as of 23:24, 17 December 2008

To start a peer review, choose an appropriate topic from the list below and click on the link to create the review page.
Arts Language and literature
Philosophy and religion Everyday life
Social sciences and society Geography
History Engineering and technology
Natural sciences and mathematics General topic or List
If you have already done this, and the template has not changed, try purging this talk page.
WikiProject iconIndia: Karnataka / Literature B‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
BThis article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Karnataka.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Indian literature workgroup.
A fact from Mysore literature in Kannada appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on August 22 2007. A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2007/August.
Misplaced Pages

Fair use rationale for Image:Sarvajna Manauscipts.jpg

Image:Sarvajna Manauscipts.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Misplaced Pages article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 00:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Sentence from 18th/19th literature section

"His contributions to treatises on music include Nija Dipika Ratna, Anubhava Rasayana, Bhakti Marga Sarovara and Gnana Sarovara, both with eighty six compositions, and a host of sangatya, gadya, vachana compositions and eighteen philosophical compositions in the work Shalyada Arasinavara Tikina Kirtane."

I'm not sure exactly what this means - what two compositions does "both" refer to? I've left it as is for now, because I don't want to change the intended meaning. Damanmundine1 11:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Iwill refer to my book and make sure I did not alter the intended meaning.thanksDineshkannambadi 13:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Not a minor uncontroversial move

You are in the middle of a FAR on Kingdom of Mysore, in which one of the issues being discussed is the page name "Kingdom of Mysore" and whether it is appropriate. This page name includes "Kingdom of Mysore" as an integral part; furthermore, it is the mother article of a section in the Kingdom of Mysore page. You cannot simply change the name without informing anyone on this talk page, and, to boot, check the "minor edit" box in the edit notes. This is a very controversial move and it has to be done through the proper channels. Before you can even attempt to do that though, you need to conduct a discussion on this talk and provide your reasons for requesting this move. Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

If a larger set of writers are to be included, you nonetheless need to tell us who they are, how much content will their inclusion add, but most importantly why does the page name need to be changed now, when for many many months you have used artifices like naming (long) sections, "Contemporary developments and then including material that did not contemporaneously originate within the realm of the Kingdom of Mysore. Why do we need this change now, when we didn't need it earlier? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Read the article and enjoy it. As the author of the article, I dont see what the problem is in changing the name to what I feel is appropriate at any point in time. If the PR or FAC reviewers dont like it, I will change it to what they feel is correct. Is there a wiki rule that the entire sub-article, line to line, should include only info on Mysore kingdom? I think not. I wanted to expand it, so I did it.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 22:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Since I am disputing the page name change, you need to do it through the proper channels of a "controversial move." As simple as that. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Nothing controversial here. The article includes literature from outside Mysore too.. and it would be incorrect to name it to suggest otherwise. The new title, if anything, is a more accurate description of the content of the article. Sarvagnya 22:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I have left a question with the FAR directors since your first revert was based on the FAR. I will go by their advice. If you continue to protest and change the name back, for no good reason, then we can bring in admins.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 22:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for asking the FAR directors. I do protest the change without any prior discussion on the talk page. Since I subscribe to 1RR, I will, however, not revert user:Sarvagyna's revert move. Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

(unindent)What I am suggesting is not that the sub-article's name "remain frozen," but rather that when such a name change involves issues related to the FAR (and explicitly discussed in My concerns (#5)), it should be discussed on the talk page first. The page move certainly shouldn't be made without any explanation anywhere and with the "minor edit" box checked. Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The subarticle's name has changed now in the FAR article, in the name of accuracy and improvements that a FAR is all about.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 22:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
That's not what is at stake here. The page name needs to be changed back to Kannada literature in the Kingdom of Mysore. One of the points of the FAR (My concerns#5) has been that both the literature section and the mother article have never been about Kannada literature within the Kingdom of Mysore, and that among other things they have included non-Kingdom-of-Mysore literature through the artifice of sections like Contemporary developments, which describe the Kannada literature of surrounding kingdoms. You need to explain why you are doing this now and why these latest changes cannot be accommodated in more "Contemporary developments." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
It is you who needs to explain why you linked one of your issues to a sub-article, when the FAR is about the main article. Sub-articles are meant to be expanded and that is what I did. I dont need to explain anything. I have made 27,000 edits on wiki, did I explain them all to you?Dineshkannambadi (talk) 23:37, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Categories: