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Revision as of 18:46, 3 March 2004

I see that the user from 67.x.y.z has been having a field day with this page. While I can appreciate enthusiasm, some of the edits are on a very slippery slope. For example:

• Marco Polo is alleged to have been born on the Croatian island of Korčula, to a Slavic family called Polić natively but changed to de Polo in order to naturalize to the Venetian government (Dalmatia was mostly ruled by Venice those days), and later moved to Venice themselves. The de Polo's still live in Korčula today (my mother happens to be from there so I know for sure), and there's a house that's a small tourist attraction because it's "the birthplace of Marco Polo", but whether the explorer himself was (or the extent of his heritage) from this family is not so certain AFAIK.

• Joseph Haydn was from Burgenland (Gradišće), a province in easternmost Austria today that's known to be inhabited by many Croats (gradišćanski Hrvati), and many of his compositions are recorded by him as coming from folk songs. There are families in Croatia called Hajdinjak and similar, so many speculate that Haydns were originally Croats from Burgenland, but again, this is not at all certain.

• Rudjer Josip Boscovich was from Dubrovnik, and he was definitely a famous citizen of a Croatian city, but it's pretty stretched to outright declare him Croat. See the long discussion on that talk page.

• Emile Zola is speculated to be Croat by some French scientist apparently amicable towards the Croats in general, based on some Croatian-sounding terms used in his literature? Very stretched to say the least.

• Nikola Tesla was from Croatia but was from a Serb family (probably originally Vlachs due to the last name), not Croat.

I think I also saw several Croatian Jews listed -- the extent of their naturalization should probably be verified before declaring them Croats.

Also there's Slavoljub Eduard Penkala, who was not ethnically Croat but willfully became naturalized Croat. Conversely, Ivo Andrić was ethnically Croat but willfully became naturalized Serb. I suppose listing both kinds is the best compromise, but I'm not sure if that's the consensus.

So, anyway, my point is: tread lightly. --Shallot 17:46, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

As for John Malkovich- http://www.allstarz.org/~malkovich/financial.html Even though of Croatian and Scottish descent, Malkovich had a relatively typical Midwestern upbringing in the small Illinois town of Benton, some 300 miles south of Chicago. His father published a conservation magazine and his mother ran the local newspaper. So there was no reason for the chubby and much-ridiculed John to be interested in sophisticated European culture -- until he went to college. In 1976 he dropped out of a drama degree at Illinois State University, moved to Chicago and co-founded with several old friends the Steppenwolf Theatre Company, where he acted in and directed works by classic and modern European authors. It would become one of the most recognised regional groups in the US.

As much as Malkovich values its tradition and way of life, he says Europe is "not a place I take incredibly seriously: after all, it was the homeland of the Inquisition, totalitarianism, genocide and the invention of several bloody crusades". He also has harsh words for its media for what he deems unfair treatment of the US.83.131.114.18 21:30, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Not only that, but he recently (2003) came to Croatia and commented publically on his two grandparents who emigrated from the country into the States. --Shallot 22:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

And not only that: I remember that back in 1991, Malkovich made a TV spot (actually, it was conceived by Croatian-American artist Nenad Bach) wherein he recited IN CROATIAN first 5-7 lines of Croatian National anthem "Lijepa naša domovino". It was a sign of support for the Croatian struggle for independence in war against Serbian aggression.Mir Harven 13:07, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

John Malkovich is actually of Serb origin and not of Croatian origin. His last name is of Serb origin and even though he says he's from Croatia, he's not actually a Croat. This hymn reciting was a mistake and he didn't really know what they were asking of him. He admitted that later on in print. Croatia used to have a large Serb minority until 1992 when they were prosecuted and ethnically cleansed from Croatia. BBC has him listed as of Serb origin: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/tennis/features/newsid_2893000/2893189.stm

Even if all you said was true, and I'm far from convinced it is esp. the blather at the end, none of that that would preclude his listing on this page. --Shallot 18:46, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Rename

It occurs to me that a better title for the page would be list of Croatians, because that doesn't imply ethnic nationalism, rather a link with the country, which may or may not be combined with ethnicity. And to avoid any claims of misappropriation, ethnic classification and/or name of political entity that controlled the place a person was from can be added next to each name. --Shallot 22:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Done now. Should be reasonably uncontroversial now. --Shallot 12:57, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Eh, that anonymous user went through the whole page like a tornado again... among other questionable things, Pope Sixtus V Croatian?? I googled and found some site from Herceg Novi saying he was the son of a Serb... brrr, this looks like another Pandora's box. --Shallot 00:13, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Found another odd case: Rick Rossovich, an actor from California, had a great-great-grandfather who lived in Mošćenička Draga (on the coast in the Istria county). His IMDb entry, however also has an entry saying that this person was actually a Serb from Krajina, but the aforementioned place is not. --Shallot 22:31, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Quot"His IMDb entry, however also has an entry saying that this person was actually a Serb from Krajina". I suppose you mean http://www.us.imdb.com/name/nm0001685/bio ? This is a complete nonsense, added by some propagandist. There are no Rosović Serbs in "Krajina", and one can very well see this by typing this surname into search window of Cro phonebooks, http://www.htnet.hr/imenik/fset.html . Well, type Rosović, and you'll find 12 persons, all Croats (according to first names-one of them Hrvoje/Croat) in and around Mošćenićka Draga. Judging from clumsy syntax and pathetic effort to inform the public that "Krajina" (written as "Kranija") is not to be confused with Croatia or anything Croatian- it's pretty obvious that Serbian agitprop had been nosing around. I've seen Rossovich IMDB bio and there was no "Krajina" part. Then I've written in Wiki he was of Croatian ancestry. And, lo and behold- magically, "Krajina" ad appears on the Rossovich bio page. Coincidence. Yeah, in some parallel universe.Mir Harven 23:53, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, I had a bad feeling about it given the geographical inconsistency and bad spelling. How perverse. Thank you, I've just submitted the correction to the IMDb staff. --Shallot 02:14, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)