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user:Opiumjones 23's concerns

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user:BKLisenbee's concerns

It would hard for me (or anyone else, for that matter) to have any kind of civil discourse with a user (opiumjones_23) who sent me an e-mail rant, addressing me this way: "hey shithead". That mail and other similar threatening or disrespectful e-mails were sent immediately to Misplaced Pages administrator/mediator/Fayssal. I have also been unambiguously threatened with legal action, and opiumjones_23 was clearly warned. This is the kind of nonsense I have had to deal with for several years, unfortunately, thanks to this Misplaced Pages mess. I do hope, however, some resolution can be found. Although I am the main focus of this current matter, please be fully aware that there are others who are very concerned that some resulution be accomplished. Several other editors have taken time to conscientiously research the Jajouka and Joujouka situation, mainly to avoid confusion which having two separate entries for the Master Musicians has caused over the years.

I sincerely hope that anyone willing to help will be fully aware of what has been going on, and be meticulous in research and edits, and be aware that I am not the only concerned person in this dispute. Unfortunately, the Master Musicians of Jajouka, has been the victim of a long-standing smear campaign by this user (opiumjones_23), ever since he began to use Hamri as his excuse/rationale. If the painter Hamri were a musician with any legitimate status as a musician, perhaps it would be easier to decide this case. Hamri's claim to fame was that he was a close friend of painter Brion Gysin for years (though he was left nothing in Gysin's will), and Gysin with Hamri brought Brian Jones to the village for a single recording, of which Hamri did the original artwork. That's it. So later the LP was released, and the artwork was changed. Is that really so "controversial" as opiumjones_23 has said all along. And who, precisely, are the original musicians? Is it a group that opiumjones_23 has produced a mere 3 CDs for on the Sub Rosa label? Who, precisely, is this Ahmed El Attar, who opiumjones_23 claims is the leader of his "original group"? And perhaps more important, who made him the leader of a "Joujouka" faction/band, that opiumjones_23 claims is the "original" group? Where does Bachir Attar's father Hadj Abdesalam Attar fit in? He was the undisputed leader of the "original" group also, when Brian Jones made his one 1968 recording of "Pipes of Pan". But is it only because of the Brian Jones / Brion Gysin and Hamri connection that these musicians and their music are significant? There is nothing in print about Ahmed Attar, anywhere, with the exception of opiumjones_23's productions, his band's MySpace page, and his own website . These and numerous other issues remain to be solved, hopefully, so that Misplaced Pages will not be used to attack and smear others, even noninvolved parties.

ABUSE OF WIKIPEDIA'S MISINFORMATION and LINKS PUT ON OTHER SITES AND BLOGS SUPPORTING LIBEL:

See this link:

where a Frankrigger comments with links to Misplaced Pages's entries, claiming that I am guilty of harrassment via e-mails. This is patently untrue, and all e-mails received from opiumjones_23's e-mail have been forwarded to administrator/mediator Fayssal. Gyrofrog, please take note, and also see that opiumjones_23 friend Paul H. has been commenting here and elsewhere, smearing my name, claiming that I am guilty. As the Chelsea Hotel blog where this was originally done accuses me of being the subject of an Australian police investigation for Internet harrassment, which is an outright lie.

There has been continuing misinformation and disinformation on Misplaced Pages regarding confusion over who hereditary leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka, Bachir Attar, whose father Hadj Abdesalam Attar, who was the undisputed leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka when Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones once recorded in the village. The music existed long before either Brion Gysin, Hamri, William Burroughs and Brian Jones and opiumjones_23 ever set foot in the tiny Moroccan village. Unfortunately, the confusion and "controversy" is on Misplaced Pages's associated pages:

(article) Master Musicians of Jajouka Featuring Bachir Attar. NO redirection from Master Musicians of Jajouka, as the Misplaced Pages article had originally.

(article) Master Musicians of Joujouka (I and other concerned people strongly believe there needs to be only one article on Misplaced Pages entitled Master Musicians of Jajouka, with some information about the confusion with opiumjones_23's "Joujouka" in a new section). One reason is that opiumjones_23 begins this way: "These original musicians hail from the village of Joujouka, Jajouka or Zahjouka (spelled جوجوكة or جهجوكة in Arabic)" There is no proof that his band are the "original" musicians. This confusion is a blatant and outrageous claim that is totally unsubstianted and largely perpetrated on Misplaced Pages and on the user's own MySpace Joujouka site and joujouka.net. It is patently untrue. Please remove "original musicians". The spelling of the village as Joujouka only perepetrates the confusion. It is commonly known as Jajouka, as the Google Books and other references below will demonstrate.

(article) Jajouka (this page is supposed to focus/concentrate on the village in Morocco) As it currently stands, there is a misstatement that the village "hosted a Brian Jones 40th Anniversary" celebration, which was (organized not by the villagers but by opiumjones_23. This self-promotion needs to be removed, as it was opiumjones_23 who organized this event, and the links to his radio talk have mainly to do with his event) I had initially put a link to a MSN Encarta map which showed the spelling of the village as Jajouka (not "Joujouka", which was predominantly the way the illiterate painter and a friend of Brion Gysin pronounced the village where his mother was from. This article is about the village, and history, not an announcement page for an opiumjones_23-sponsored festival. The link to the radio interview by him should be removed as well as the announcement of his festival, which was actually the 39th anniversary anyway, not the 40th. Another point on Tangier is that under references and notes, #2, joujouka.net should be removed especially since there is no reference or note to jajouka.com, a far more popular group that has in the past, and still tours throughout North America, Europe, Scandinavia, Europe, Japan and Hong Kong. Note also that opiumjones_23's Irish friend has an article on his site, about Hamri, the Painter of Morocco, part one here: that begins, "Silent midnight in Joujouka, 1997..." However he and opiumjones_23 spell the name of the village, the common spelling for the village and group is JAJOUKA. See also this map link also, where it spells the village name as Jajouka, and shows the location on Google Maps: . The MSN ENCARTA MAPS location link, I had put this on Misplaced Pages several years ago when I first noticed the misspelling of the village and Master Musicians of Jajouka on Misplaced Pages, is this: This link needs to be re-added to Misplaced Pages to demonstrate the spelling as is commonly used today, as well as the exact location in Morocco.

(article) Mohamed Hamri (no reputable source other than an art-pamphlet shows that Hamri was born in "Joujouka" or Jajouka, and see below that various books have him as born in Ksar-el-Kebir, as well as opiumjones_23's own obituary published in England in the Independent newspaper. It is on his joujouka.net site here, along with a PDF file of the original announcement: The place of birth in Morocco of the painter Mohamed Hamri is incorrect on Misplaced Pages as it currently stands (though let it be known that it had been correct initially, until opiumjones_23 changed it. opiumjones_23 wrote an obituary saying he was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco (still a "reputable" source on Misplaced Pages), and Misplaced Pages says Hamri was born in Joujouka. The same obituary says that Hamri was immortalized by Paul Bowles in a book, and it turns out that it was Brion Gysin's book The Process where Hamri was "immortalized" as a character. Read this book written by Brion Gysin himself: This same obituary calls a totally illiterate an "intellectual". Now opiumjones_23 has changed his tune to say that a very limited-edition 56-page art book mainly with photographs of Hamri's painting, with a very short "biography" entitled "Hamri, the Painter of Morocco", written by two Irishmen who deceived /conned/fooled many people over years, (according to a Misplaced Pages entry: "...claim ... was based on fabricated documentation, and rather than being aristocrats of Munster origin, his ancestors were ordinary Belfast working people.(they wrote the art pamplet for The Lawrence Arnot Art Gallery in Tangier, "Hamri the painter of Morocco", (Tangier,2004), taking their "royal" lineage very seriously, when in reality they were proven impostors, with no royal lineage at all. This author who co-wrote the art pamplet on Mohamed Hamri, MacCarthy said he would be the next king of Ireland, if a monarchy ever were established there. (See for reference: They said in their art gallery book that Hamri was born in Joujouka (sic). The two confurred "titles" on individuals for a fee of money. They illicitly gained a million dollars/euros/pounds from others and when found out, they were disgraced in Ireland as well as in Tangier. Yet we are supposed to take this little pamplet's information they put in that Hamri was born in Joujouka when other far better researched books say Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, which, mind you, even opiumjones_23 had in his Independent newspaper obituary of Hamri in 2000. The exposed former Irish royal "Prince" or "Mor" was not royalty at all; he was a total fake, and proven to be so, yet this man's pamphlet is being used as the sole justification for a Misplaced Pages footnote/reference to claim that Hamri was born in the village ("Joujouka" sic), where his mother was from. On the other hand, several notable books, have references to Hamri as being born in Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco, never saying he was born in Jajouka. Thus I think this definitely needs to be corrected to Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco. It should also be noted that Mohamed Hamri was never a musician, but he certainly used them, to the point of stealing money due to them. Since the "obituary" by opiumjones_23 also says Hamri was an "intellectual". It would take a big imagination and stretch of the imagination to ever consider him an intellectual. The fact that this was put in Hamri's Independent newspaper obituary by opiumjones_23, who wrote the article, does not make Hamri an intellectual. I would like it noted on wikipedia that he was illiterate, and footnotes and references can also state facts that in his early life he was well-known in Tangier as a petty thief and smuggler. If one has had a notable past, even criminal, then I see no reason why it cannot be put on Misplaced Pages, if there are sources to back this up. Everyone wants facts, right? These are known facts about Hamri.

(article) Tangier (under people who lived in Tangier, Hamri is described as "the Picasso of Morocco"; only one newspaper article has this, but it seems to be conjecture and wishful thinking. Books have described him as he proclaimed himself on his personal calling/business card which I still have: "Hamri, the Painter of Morocco" The article is one of perhaps hundreds written over the years in newspapers on Tangier, mainly a travel piece, with a bit about Hamri's wife Blanca. She is a long-time resident of the city, but she is not one of the most important or socially prominent people in the city, having been a secretary for the former headmaster of the American School of Tangier who died two years ago. Since as I pointed out, there are many travel articles written on Tangier, I suggest that the one from the Independent be changed to this one dated December 21, 2008, from the New York Times: . It is more current and less contentious.

(article) William S. Burroughs; Burroughs supported Bachir Attar and stated in a letter that Attar was the rightful inheritor of the mantle of leader of the Master Musicians, and his group the only true group. Regardless of any other letter to the contary, this seems to have been Burroughs' final say on the matter. (See this signed letter on the jajouka.com site under documents). For the signed letter by William Burroughs, see this page: http://www.jajouka.com/williamsburroughs.html Jajouka manager Cherie Nutting has the original letter and she can be contacted via the jajouka.com site. On this letter http://www.jajouka.com/jajoukaletter2.html on page three, Burroughs assistant describes Hamri as "a complete impostor" and he says that Hamri in opiumjones_23's film Destroy All Rational Thought reveals himself to be a "con man".

Of particular interest is the 8-page letter written in 1996 to opiumjones_23 and his friend, who originally organized the protest in Ireland and used without permission a copyrighted photograph (which the writer) said he still had the negative for, and which opiumjones_23 still uses on his joujouka.net site and also where his friend has on his Outsideleft.com site here: . The photograph by Rubiner is of Brion Gysin, Hamri and William S. Burroughs. The writer expresses his concern that his picture was being used on a protest-flyer against Bachir and the Jajouka musicians. The producer who wrote the letter to opiumjones_23, had personal dealings with Hamri and explained what actually occurred over the years, including theft of money and bullying tactics by Hamri, and meeting his wife in Tangier. See please scroll through and read this letter carefully, as it is self-explanatory:

(article) Bachir Attar As it currently reads, after much edit-warring, including with other users such Abelekrim, Bachir Attar leads the Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar. The name of the group he leads must be corrected throughout Misplaced Pages as he is the the one and only hereditary leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and his father Hadj Abdesalam Attar was the undisputed leader at the time of the Jones recording. There are many book references to this. Bachir lives in the village and many of the musicians still live there, but some live in nearby Ksar-el-Kebir and elsewhere, to earn income since there is no real commercial enterprises in the village other than some farming. Bachir never claimed to lead a "Joujouka" group, and the spelling is a moot point here. He is merely the acknowledged leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and they have toured throughtout the world on many occasions, including 2008 in Canada, and confirmed tours and performances are in the works for 2009. You may add a recent article/interview from Walrus magazine on Bachir Attar and Jajouka, however, please take note that two links were added to opiumjones_23's Joujouka MySpace site, as well as to his own Joujouka.net via comments. This seems to the typical modus operandi of opiumjones_23. The article/interview with Bachir Attar about Jajouka are interesting and would be a good link reference, since it is dated December 12, 2008.

(article) Cherie Nutting (comments to be added)

(article) Brion Gysin. See this Google books page, where Brion Gysin himself writes about both Hamri and the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and please note that Gysin himself uses the spelling as Jajouka and not "Joujouka". In the summer of 1950, Gysin went to a religious festival or moussem, at Sidi Kacem, held on or near the beach outside of Tangier. It was here that he first became fascinated with the music he later found to be the Master Musicians of Jajouka. It should be noted in any article or on Gysin's article that his close friend and protege Mohamed Hamri was illiterate and pronounced the name as "Jou-Jou-Ka", so perhaps that is why Gysin at first, and later Brian Jones, adoped that spelling. However, it must also be noted that the spelling used by Gysin in much of his later writings all documented, is Jajouka for the village and Master Musicians of Jajouka.

(article) The Rolling Stones; (comments to be added)

(article) Steel Wheels (album) There is no doubt that The Rolling Stones worked with and recorded with Bachir Attar and the Master Musicians of Jajouka, recording in the summer 1989 for three days tracks in the kasbah in Tangier, Morocco, with him and the Master Musicians for the song "Continental Drift" in the Stones Steel Wheels album. Mick Jagger also visited Jajouka with Bachir, and this event was fully documented in the film by BBC Television for "The Rolling Stones in Morocco" and shown on British television in 1989.

(article) Bill Laswell (here it says under the Greenwood, etc. section, that he worked with the Master Musicians of Jajouka. Perhaps for clarification of this and other statements regarding the MM of Jajouka, the name Bachir Attar could also be added, so there is no mistake which musicians are being referred to. However, as I have said, there should NOT be any redirection to Master Musicians of Jajouka Featuring Bachir Attar, which is what opiumjones_23 wants.

(article) He is a producer of several Joujouka CDs on the Sub Rosa label.

(article) Steel Wheels Somewhere it should be pointed out that the Rolling Stones recorded "Continental Drift" for the Steel Wheels album with Bachir Attar and the Master Musicians of Jajouka in the summer of 1989.

(article) Brian Jones Presents the Pipes of Pan at Jajouka (comments to be added)

(article) Tales of Joujouka (created by opiumjones_23) (comments to be added) This book was

(article) Boujeloud (album) (created by opiumjones_23, redirected from Boujeloud, so I wonder what happened to the article on Boujeloud, and why it was redirected, and who did this?)

(article) Ornette Coleman The official Ornette Coleman website mentions only recording the Master Musicians of Jajouka (not a "Joujouka" group). See:

(article) Paul Bowles. The famous expatriate writer and composer Bowles was dragged into this after his death on the pages of Misplaced Pages, and he is still being slandered by opiumjones23 on his own site for his band Joujouka (see joujouka.net and by people he knows on various blogs (Irish writer Paul Hawkins), and Joe Ambrose (Irish friend of opiumjones_23) who describes himself an "art-terrorist", and who has stated that he does not believe in the laws of libel); it is disgraceful and unethical. Bowles was accused of all kinds of misdeads, and in the past he was characterized as a serial-sexual predator, and this information remains "interviews" by opiumjones_23 and his friends who do his bidding on the Web, blogs, blog comments, etc. Unverified "facts" have been repeated so often that people are now beginning to believe them, and Misplaced Pages's Jajouka / Joujouka / Hamri / Brion Gysin/ Pipes of Pan have a major role in perpetrating confusion, misinformation, disinformation, and even slander and libel on occasion, via links on its pages, so I hope there can be a resolution. Bowles friends have had the location of their Tangier residence inserted, with insinuations about criminal sexual exploitation of children and sexuality. Fayssal is fully aware of this. Opiumjones_23 claimed that he "knew" Bowles, when in reality he and his friend Ambrose were persona non grata, that is, not welcome, in Bowles apartment and they were asked to leave by the maid and chauffeur. Also, let it be known that they slander Bowles in various of their rants. Were he now alive, he could sue for libelous accusations and untruths. Opiumjones_23 also directly threatened to sue me on the pages of Misplaced Pages and he was warned about putting such threats on Misplaced Pages. The Misplaced Pages article on Bowles now seems to be OK, however I would like to draw attention to the link to the official site, which should be corrected to: The Authorized Paul Bowles Web Site, the official site for the Estate of Paul Bowles, http://www.paulbowles.org That is the name of the site. Also, the note link 30 referencing the the official Paul Bowles site should be changed to this page: http://www.paulbowles.org/terms.html and the text changed to remove reference to webmaster. In other words, please remove/change http://www.ralphmag.org/DT/letters1.html and replace it with http://www.paulbowles.org/terms.html and remove letter to Lolita Lark by me. The page on the official site is self-explanatory. Thank you.

Regarding trivia, babel and totally unrelated information and personal names and links to outside sites are still on User opiumjones_23 and User Talk Discussion pages, especially the unsigned comments by user Abelekrim on Opiumjones_23's user talk discussion page, indexed in Google and other search engines, so that speculation and dragging in completely noninvolved parties names are turning up the Misplaced Pages user page when searches are being done on their names. This is the kind of thing that makes Misplaced Pages look bad. Yes, there are problems with Misplaced Pages indexing discussion talk pages and I hope this can be addressed by administration. It is time that higher ups in Administration finally take notice to this problem and do something about it.

It is also a fact that most professors at universities and colleges now give automatic failing grades in courses to their students who use Misplaced Pages as references in their papers. I can understand why, based on this "controversy" largely stirred up by Hamri, opiumjones_23 and his Irish "art-terrorist" friend who want only their controvery on the Internet. Though the latter is not editing on Misplaced Pages, that I know of, I have noted that on sites are being used as links/references also in Misplaced Pages, and he states that he does not believe in the laws of libel. Fortunately, Misplaced Pages believes that libelous statements and unproven allegations must be avoided at all cost.

Numerous discussion/edits by opiumjones23 have been contentious, and long disrupted the lives of innocent people, causing nightmares, and I was once threatened with legal action. Many times in the past few years my edits were reverted by him and others. I began editing on the Jajouka and Master Musicians of Jajouka pages because I saw the group spelled as Joujouka, when I was familiar with the current leader, Bachir Attar, who lives in the village. opiumjones23 has repeatedly tried to say that his musicians represent the "original" group, but he has gone well beyond this to repeatedly discredit Attar, whose father was the hereditary leader of the group. Thus, as I see it, much of this has spread to blogs and only today I found a blog which seems to perpetrate this notion. It could be as a result of Misplaced Pages's having two separate pages, one for Master Musicians of Jajouka (which opiumjones23 felt should be redirected to Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar). This redirection should be eliminated. The other band of musicians, is what opiumjones23 calls the Master Musicians of Joujouka.

The Jajouka spelling of the village is commonly used in the West, in most publications by far, and reputable sources and references, and many books, as Jajouka, and the name of the group is almost always spelled Jajouka. Invariably, these published books have used knowledgeable sources and interviews, including Brian Gysin, to accurately I feel spell the name of both the far more popular group as Jajouka, and it is led by Bachir Attar. William Burroughs said that there was no dispute that Bachir Attar was the only rightful inheritor of the mantle of Leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you can read that on the official Jajouka.com site under documents.

I will also say that this Master Musicians of Jajouka/Joujouka dispute seems to have come about beginning in the 1990s when Mohamed Hamri, a Moroccan painter, who was illiterate and a close friend of Brion Gyin who once lived in Tangier. There is confusion as to the commonly accepted spelling of the village as Jajouka caused by consistent references to a Master Musicians of Joujouka on Misplaced Pages. I had long ago put on a simple MSN Encarta link showing the spelling and precise location of the village on the Jajouka page (for the village). Someone removed this, and for clarity's sake, it really should be there, along with other map references to the village, which I have visited only once. A pronounciation of the village by Mohamed Hamri, who was illiterate, has been used as Joujouka. But it is a pronounciation, not turned into a spelling by opiumjones_23, who knew Hamri well, and his wife, and who has put out a mere 3 CDs using Joujouka as a spelling for his band. But the origin of the spelling may have come from Hamri, and from that point in the early 1950s Brion Gysin first spelled the name of the village and the musicians, "Joujouka". More important, however, is the fact that both Brion Gysin and William S. Burroughs, who learned of this music through his close friend Gysin, in their quoted writings and reliable references in books later spelled the village name and the music group as Jajouka, or Master Musicians of Jajouka.

The following are some of the references to the preeminent and commonly used spelling in published books (not a very short bio, as in the case of the Hamri reference mentioned above, which as I have said, was written by a deceitful individual who claimed he could be a future king of Ireland, and who much has been written about exposing this fact in newspapers and now a book. In view of the fact that the author has a long history of deceitful activities, and theft of monies were involved, and the revelation that he was a complete fraud, as his father was a working class citizen in Ireland and not Irish "royalty", I would not put too much faith in his pompous writings.

Let's get to the commonly accepted spelling of the Master Musicians from the village. Please look at Google Books, which has indexed relevant books for reading, a very useful feature. You can start by going to Google Books, then search on Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you will find many sources, and can read much of the contents online. I did this yesterday and forwarded it to the administrator Fayssal, who is trying to help settle this matter to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, not just me and opiumjones_23. While I can understand that he, as producer of only 3 CDs of his largely unknown band of "Joujouka" musicians wants to be acknowledged, the fact of the matter is that he has gone out of his way to discredit the hereditary leader of the very group whose music has been around for over 1,000 years, widely credited as being the first "World Music" group. But his use of Brian Jones and Brion Gysin, and Hamri and William Burroughs, as well as his extra-Misplaced Pages use of the Internet, blogs, and interviews, all with him, give only a one-sided and distorted picture of the history of the music and the group. There is one group, and one leader, and it is the Master Musicians of Jajouka led by Bachir Attar. That is what most reputable sources say. I and user Emerman, who I have been accused of being, who I am not, have never seen in print any documentation showing that his Joujouka is the "original" group. Beat Generation figures are used to attempt to justify his position, but the books and references I have read point to The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and the village is spelled almost consistently, with one or two scholarly exceptions, as Jajouka. The Master Musicians of Jajouka group whose father was the undisputed leader at the time of the Brian Jones recording in 1969 was Bachir's father, not the Ahmed El Attar that opiumjones_23 claims. Where is his documentation for this in some reputable source? One group, one music, one page on Misplaced Pages for this group seems to be the correct way to proceed. It is clearly the Master Musicians of Jajouka.

NOTES FOR FAYSSAL OF WIKIPEDIA FROM USER: BKLISENBEE

Google Books provides a wealth of information about the Master Musicians of Jajouka and Bachir Attar, as well as Brion Gysin and Jajouka, William Burroughs and Jajouka, etc. Please look at these books in Google Books; there are many other references to Jajouka in Google Books, too numerous and time-consuming for me to view all today..

Back in No Time By Brion Gysin, Jason Weiss Published by Wesleyan University Press, 2002 ISBN 0819565296, 9780819565297 354 pages

Written in 1981 by Brion Gysin, please note the article by Gysin on page 279, “Hamri’s Hands”, where is described as a cook, as well as a painter, and also note Gysin’s use of the spelling for the group as Master Musicians of Jajouka.

NOTE: There are many instances throughout this book where Brion Gysin himself (he wrote the book) consistently uses the term Master Musicians of Jajouka. This should lay to rest any claim by user opiumjones23 who reinvents history and facts to suit his purposes on Misplaced Pages and makes it Joujouka, always contentiously dragging in Hamri, who was a known thief in his youth, later a painter, and never a musician, who was not born in Jajouka but in Ksar-el-Kebir, for his “controversial” purposes only. Gysin m ay have at times spelled it Joujouka (remember that Mohamed Hamri was illiterate and did not read or write up until his death), and regardless of the original LP release of a single work Brian Presents the Pipes of Pan at Joujouka (later released as Brian Jones Presents the Pipes of Pan at Jajouka (it is also very clear from the many sources below that the Master Musicians of Jajouka is, by far, the preferred spelling.

I suggest when you look at these sources, you search inside each book for Master Musicians of Jajouka and you will see these instances and the pages they are mentioned within each book using a Google Book search on these books:

Wising Up the Marks: A Modern William Burroughs By Timothy S. Murphy Published by University of California Press, 1998 ISBN 0520209516, 9780520209510 276 pages

A Google Book Search within this book actually quotes William Burroughs on page 222, and other instances where Jajouka is used are on pages 224, 225, 258, 264, and 272; Jajouka is consistently used either as Master Musicians of Jajouka or Jajouka, also referring to the Moroccan village, throughout this book. It seems that William Burroughs also wrote liner notes for an LP album, Apocalypse Across the Sky, a Master Musicians of Jajouka album, with Bachir Attar as the leader of the group.

Note also that within this book it has Master Musicians of Jajouka and Ornette Coleman, not a “Joujouka” as opiumjones_23 claims on his revisions of Master Musicians of Joujouka and other pages on Misplaced Pages. This, of course, needs to be clarified. As I pointed out to administrator-mediator Fayssal yesterday, even the official Ornette Coleman website uses only the spelling as Master Musicians of Jajouka.

Global Minstrels: Voices of World Music By Elijah Wald Published by CRC Press, 2006 ISBN 0415979307, 9780415979306 306 pages

Master Musicians of Jajouka is listed, and Bachir Attar is described as the "hereditary leader". The spelling of the village and the group as the Master Musicians of Jajouka (not "featuring Bachir Attar") is used this book on page 204. “Joujouka” or Master Musicians of Joujouka is not used even once in the book, and there is no mention of Mohamed Hamri either.

Mass Mediations: New Approaches to Popular Culture in the Middle East and Beyond By Walter Armbrust Published by University of California Press, 2000 ISBN 0520219260, 9780520219267 378 pages

The term/use Master Musicians of Jajouka or word Jajouka referring to the group or village is used in many places throughout this book, which also elaborates a little on Hamri and “Joujouka”, as well as this quote on page 159: “"Zahjoukah" is the closest representation of the old Jbala pronounciation of the name…” Thus, the use of Zahjoukah on Misplaced Pages is actually how it could be pronounced, but not the preferred spelling of the village or group, which is Jajouka. See also page 750, which refers to Hamri as a “reputed smuggler” who was learning to paint. Note also that it was Paul Bowles and Brion Gysin who first heard the music of Jajouka at a festival outside Tangier, Morocco.

World Music: The Rough Guide By Simon Broughton, Mark Ellingham, Richard Trillo, Orla Duane, Vanessa Dowell Published by Rough Guides, 1999 ISBN 1858286352, 9781858286358 736 pages

Information about World Music, including the Master Musicians of Jajouka, Brian Jones, Mick Jagger, recording the Rolling Stones Steel Wheels album with the Master Musicians of Jajouka and leader Bachir Attar. Includes photographs.

Nothing is True - Everything is Permitted: The Life of Brion Gysin By John Geiger (not to be confused with opiumjones_23 film) Published by The Disinformation Company, 2005 ISBN 1932857125, 9781932857122

There are several instances in this book about Paul Bowles, who first heard the music of the Master Musicians of Jajouka in 1950 at a moussem near Tangier. Meticulouly referenced footnotes from acual sources or letters are used throughout this book. Note this des cription of Mohamed Hamri at the bottom of page 91 and top of page 92: “ A young Moroccan, Mohamed Hamri, who had been introduced to Gysin by Paul Bowles, acted as Gysin’s ‘little back door’ into Moslem manners and ways. Hamri was described as Gysin’s ‘blood brother… (an) irrepressible, busy, puckish, volatile, laughing Mediterranean trickster.” (footnote provided. A reputed smuggler who ran contraband from the International Zone into the Spanish and French Protectorates, Hamri ‘spent his entire time trying to get hold of money illicitly,” Bowles observed. He often succeeded. On one occasion he borrowed a suit from Bowles to attend a wedding, indeed a suit Bowles had work to his own wedding, then failed to return it…..” Also, note that Hamri stole an expensive radio from Bowles, etc. This caused a temporary rift in the friendship between Bowles and Gysin, but they later were friendly again for year to come.

This book also says that it was Hamri’s mother who had come from Jajouka, not Hamri himself. There is no reputable source in print which claims that Mohamed Hamri was born in the village. Rather, even in the Indepenedent obituary of Mohamed Hamri, writte n by opiumjones_23 himself , Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco. Michelle has this fact in her book Paul Bowles and the Literary Renegades of Tangier also.

Note that in the above book, a search within the book for Master Musicians has on page 103 “In December 1954, he opened a restaurant featuring the Master Musicians of Jajouka. Called the 1001 Nights, it was located in a narrow wing….” note the spelling as Jajouka.

Page 145: “Gysin's fascination with the Master Musicians of Jajouka is echoed by Burroughs' repeated evocation of them, the "Pan God of Panic piping blue notes through...” William Burroughs also became interested in the music of the Master Musicians of Jajouka (not “Joujouka”). There are references to Robert Palmer, Augusta Palmer’s father who visited the village, etc. This is a well-researched book.

The Rock Snob’s Dictionary: An Essential Lexicon of Rockological Knowledge By David Kamp, Steven Daly Published by Broadway Books, 2005 ISBN 0767918738, 9780767918732 149 pages

This book refers to The Master Musicians of Jajouka.

On the Track: A Guide to Contemporary Film Scoring By Fred Karlin, Rayburn Wright Contributor Rayburn Wright Published by Routledge, 2004 ISBN 0415941369, 9780415941365 533 pages

On page 95, there is reference to Howard Shore, conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra, using The Master Musicians of Jajouka (led by Bachir Attar) for his 2005 film The Cell. It also says: “Ornette Coleman performing with The Master Musicians of Jajouka…” Misplaced Pages user opiumjones23 claims that Ornette Coleman recorded with his “Joujouka', which is absolutely untrue.

Anthropologica Published by Canadian Anthropology Society Date unknown, but it refers to Master Musicians of Jajouka Featuring Bachir Attar on a release of their album Apocalypse Across the Sky, and also has a lesser known spelling Jahjouka, once. Jajouka Rolling Stone: A Fable of Gods and Heroes By Stephen Davis Published by Random House, 1993 Original from the University of California 0A Digitized May 13, 2008 ISBN 067942119X, 9780679421191 297 pages

References The Master Musicians of Jajouka and Bachir Attar, The Rolling Stones performing with Jajouka led by Bachir Attar, and Apocalypse Across the Sky album of the Master Musicians led by Bachir Attar. There are 30 references in this book to the Master Musicians of Jajouka. There are 3 references in this book referring to Jajouka as the spelling of the village, not once is it spelled as Joujouka which is how Misplaced Pages has it.

The Autobiography of Donovan: The Hurdy Gurdy Man By Donovan Leitch, Donovan Published by Macmillan, 2007 ISBN 0312364342, 9780312364342 289 pages

This autobiography of singer Donovan refers to the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and states on page 105: “Linda also told me more about the darker side of Brian Jones. He had been back to Morocco to record ‘The Pipes of Pan”. He had been introduced to the Master Musicians of Jajouka through the bohemian painter Brion Gysin, friend of Paul Bowles and mentor to William Burroughs. Brian learned from Gysin that the musicians of Jajouka continued seven-hundred year-old traditions, the ancient rites of Pan.” No spelling of Joujouka in this book either.

The Rough Guide to Rock: the definitive guide to more than 1200 artists and bands By Peter Buckley Published by Rough Guides, 2003 ISBN 1843531054, 9781843531050 1225 pages

Three pages reference the Master Musicians of Jajouka (Bachir Attar), and various recordings, and no references to user opiumjones23's “Joujouka” offshoot, with only 3 CDs on the SubRosa label in Belgium.

Book of Lies: The Disinformation Guide to Magick and the Occult By Richard Metzger, Grant Morrison Contributor Grant Morrison Published by The Disinformation Company, 2003 ISBN 097139427X, 9780971394278 352 pages

As I wrote Fayssal previously, this book quotes Brion Gysin, to refer to the village as Jajouka and the group as The Master Musicians of Jajouka. Has several photographs of Brion Gysin. The author met with Brion Gysin in Paris and he interviewed him.=2 0The book also says, on page 115: “On one of my first visits to Paris to meet with Gysin I was blessed with a special evening. After looking into the Dream Machine for a couple of hours, Bachir Attar, then the son of the Master Musician of Jajouka—he is now the Master Musician himself after his father’s death —and his brother, cooked me a ceremonial meal. During the feast Bachir played flute music…”

On page 92, “This music captured his imagination and after years of searching he traced the musicians, with the aid of the Moroccan painter Hamri, to Jajouka, ...” (Hamri pronounced the village/group as “Joujouka”, but clearly Brion Gysin spelled it correctly as Jajouka in his later years, and the illiterate painter Hamri is described by opiumjones23 as an “intellectual” in his obituary of Hamri in the English newspaper, The Independent, which in print says that Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, not in his mother's village, Jajouka. Yes, Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, but he was clearly not an intellectual and never described that way in any published references and books. Most books who have researched this described him as a petty thief, smuggler, bully, con artist, who became an accomplished artist, but never as a musician. Hamri had no claim to the music of the village, and in fact he stole money from the musicians. I have met him and his wife over the years I have lived in Tangier, and when he was sober, he seemed OK. I do not dispute his talent as a painter, however, he is no "Picasso of Morocco" as is on the Tangier Misplaced Pages page. He called himself, "Hamri, The Painter of Morocco." He was not the "National Painter of Morocco" either.

The Dream at the End of the World: Paul Bowles and the Literary Renegades in Tangier By Michelle Green Published by HarperCollins, 1991 Original from the University of Michigan Digitized Mar 4, 2008 ISBN 0060165715, 9780060165710 381 pages

This book says Mohamed Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, and it refers to Jajouka and the Master Musicians of Jajouka. She does not use any spelling of the village as Joujouka, nor does she refer to any group with the name the Master Musicians of Joujouka. It seems well-researched and interviewed many people, viewed sources and letters, etc.

Keith Richards: Satisfaction By Christopher Sandford Published by Carroll & Graf Publishers, 2004 ISBN 0786713682, 9780786713684 355 pages On pages 134 and 294, the group and musicians are referred to and spelled as Jajouka. The page 294 mentions the Rolling Stones 1989 recording of their album Steel Wheels album with the Master Musicians of Jajouka (led now and then by Bachir Attar).

According to the Rolling Stones By Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Dora Loewenstein, Charlie Watts, Philip Dodd, Ron Wood Published by Chronicle Books, 2003 ISBN 0811840603, 9780811840606 359 pages

See page 257 about recording Steel Wheels album, and on page 258, Mick Jagger himself uses the spelling as Jajouka, and there is a photograph of the Rolling Stones in Tangier with Jajouka's leader, Bachir Attar. Please read carefully the photo captions, where Jagger says that these are the same musicians (Jajouka, not "Joujouka") that Brian Jones recorded in July 1968, etc. This is from the Rolling Stones themselves.

I could go on and on, but you get the point, there are no reputable sources other than opiumjones_23’s use of the Internet, unsourced blog comments, adding slanderous comments about me, as he did on a Chelsea Hotel blog, etc., that truly justify any of “Joujouka” and these sources all seem to take the position that Bachir Attar is indeed the hereditary leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and that Hamri was not a musician, not born in Jajouka. In the historical context, the Master Musicians of Jajouka, sometimes spelled Zahjouka, or Jahjouka by Moroccans, and usually as Jajouka in English and in the West in general, Hamri was a very minor player in the music except that he exploited the musicians and his only claim to fame with them is that he brought his close friend Brion Gysin, who later brought Rolling Stones' founder/guitarist Brian Jones to the village to make one recording of the Pipes of Pan. The Rolling Stones did indeed grant to Bachir Attar, as the acknowledged leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, permission to re-release the original Brian Jones recording of Pipes of Pan and the spelling was corrected to what was commonly used. If the artwork was changed from the original, so be it. What is so controversial about changing to a new cover for a new release?

I respectfully request that some administrators and concerned editors correct this information on Misplaced Pages, as soon as possible. This misinformation on Misplaced Pages has been there for months and even years. It must be noted that Brion Gysin spelled the name as Jajouka in his own writings.

There are many other Google Book results for Master Musicians of Jajouka, more often than not referring to Bachir Attar as the current leader. There are also video documentaries which mention this, and future documentaries and films are to be released in 2009 regarding Jajouka (long before opiumjones_23 appeared on the scene with his "Joujouka" incarnation. These and letters from important people involved in the estate of Brion Gysin and William Burroughs, also support the Bachir Attar as leader and spelling of the village and group as Master Musicians of Jajouka. You can see some of these documents on the current Jajouka.com site. The group has now established its own record label, Jajoukarecords and will be releasing a new CD early in January 2009.

I welcome the help and assistance of concerned individuals and Wikipedian administrators to resolve this peacefully. I just don't want to be smeared on the Web, in Misplaced Pages user talk/discussion pages or on any blogs' comments, particularly by opiumjones_23, with false accusations and in the case of the Chelsea Hotel blog, false statements supporting a libelous and accusation by person in Australia, accusing me of being a "serial" harrasser by sending numerous e-mails. Unfortunately, opiumjones_23 has added his "comments" to this blog, claiming that I am guilty of e-mail harrassment, and he knows this to be completely untrue, and he has again, as he has done many times on discussion pages of Misplaced Pages, falsely accused me. Shame. Smearing someone's name on the Internet is is not productive. I am a fact seeker, however, I do know well Bachir and Cherie, manager of the group, and I have also met Hamri and his wife, and Bowles, since I have lived part of each of the past 25 years in Morocco. I have only visited the village--Jajouka--once. One other Wiki user attempted to get me fired from one job as a webmaster, and it did not work. This woman, who has done edits on Misplaced Pages, also runs a site for Bowles, and she now links mainly to opiumjones_23's Joujouka MySpace page and his main joujouka.net site, and others, claiming "historical facts". However, she is totally ignorant of the real facts, and has had numerous glaring mistakes on her PB and JB sites, two of many domains which she bought up over the years. Yes, having a dot com domain with someone's name, does not make it official, and this is the case with brionjones.com as well. It's not an official site, and they now link to opiumjones_23 pages/sites for his "Joujouka", and to this "definitive" site of the woman I mention, Misplaced Pages user MacWoman. The internet can be a dangerous, highly deceitful place, filled with misinformation and disinformation, wars and campaigns used to influence thoughts. It is unfortunately being used all the time to attack people via comments. This is why I am opposed to using real names in general on user talk and discussion pages, including people who are not even directly involved in this particular matter.

User:FayssalF's notes

Well, summarizing user:BKLisenbee's concerns above while awaiting for user:Opiumjones 23's ones. I may miss something but this so correct me if I am wrong. BKLisenbee feels that...

1. There needs to be only one article entitled Master Musicians of Jajouka, with some information about the problems. It could be as a result of Misplaced Pages's having two separate pages, one for Master Musicians of Jajouka (which opiumjones23 felt should be redirected to Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar). This redirection should be eliminated. The other band of musicians, is what opiumjones23 calls the Master Musicians of Joujouka. One group, one music, one page on Misplaced Pages for this group seems to be the correct way to proceed. It is clearly the Master Musicians of Jajouka;
2. Bowles was accused of all kinds of misdeads;
3. Personal names and links to outside sites are still on User opiumjones_23 and User Talk Discussion pages, indexed in Google and perhaps other search engines;
4. Non-notable references and sources are still being used;
5. The place of birth of the painter Mohamed Hamri is wrong on Misplaced Pages. opiumjones_23 wrote an obituary saying he was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco (still a "reputable" source on Misplaced Pages), and Misplaced Pages says Hamri was born in Joujouka;
6. The same obituary says that Hamri was immortalized by Paul Bowles in a book, and it turns out that it was Brion Gysin's book The Process where Hamri was "immortalized" as a character. This same obituary calls a totally illiterate an "intellectual";
7. Opiumjones_23 has changed his tune to say that a limited-edition art pamphlet "biography" (not a real book) about the artist Mohamed Hamri, written by an Irishman who fooled many people over years, into believing that he would be the next king of Ireland;
8. Several notable books, have references to Hamri as being born in Ksar-el-Kebir,Morocco; thus I think this definitely needs to be changed to Ksar-el-Kebir. It needs also to be noted that Hamri was never a musician. he was well-known in Tangier as a petty thief and smuggler;
9. was once threatened with legal action;
10. opiumjones23 has repeatedly tried to say that his musicians represent the "original" group, but he has gone well beyond this to repeatedly discredit Attar, whose father was the hereditary leader of the group.much of this has spread to blogs and only today I found a blog which seems to perpetrate this notion;
11. William Burroughs said that there was no dispute that Bachir Attar was the only rightful inheritor of the mantle of Leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you can read that on the official Jajouka.com site under documents;
12. had long ago put on a simple MSN Encarta link showing the spelling and precise location of the village on the Jajouka page (for the village). Someone removed this, and for clarity's sake, it really should be there, along with other map references to the village, which have visited only once;
13. The Master Musicians of Jajouka group whose father was the undisputed leader at the time of the Brian Jones recording in 1969 was Bachir's father, not the Ahmed El Attar that opiumjones_23 claims;
14. Google Books provides a wealth of information about the Master Musicians of Jajouka and Bachir Attar, as well as Brion Gysin and Jajouka, William Burroughs and Jajouka, etc. Please look at these books in Google Books. There are many instances throughout this book where Brion Gysin himself (he wrote the book) consistently uses the term Master Musicians of Jajouka;

Thank you for the breakdown. I will be forwarding some sources in the near future. Catalpa (talk) 23:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Poking! -- FayssalF - 14:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Catalpa's concerns

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I must commend Fayssal for rendering the 8000-odd words above into bullet points. However, rather than addressing them as a list, it is best to deal with a few core issues. User:BKLisenbee advocates adopting a policy across several Misplaced Pages pages which would elevate and promote Bachir Attar as the “rightful” Jajouka/Joujouka. User:BKLisenbee uses language such as "rightful inheritor of the mantle" in reference to Bachir Attar and his claim to lead the musicians of the village.

Therefore it is essential to first deal with the claim that Bachir Attar is the “hereditary leader” of the Master Musicians. This is the crux of the entire dispute and all other issues revolve around it.

• Hereditary leadership

The first reference to the alleged hereditary leadership in a book is in Paul Bowles' letters (published in 1995). The publication date is important because the assertion was made at a time when the controversy in the media over the release of the Brian Jones album first arose. In reference to Cherie Nutting, “Married to Bachir Attar, hereditary leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka."

I can find no prior source or reference that leadership of the musicians was hereditary in Joujouka/Jajouka. This claim first appeared as part of an attempt to promote Bachir Attar as a commercial artist. Only after that date do we find sources referring to Bachir inheriting the position as chief. They include the1999 World Music Rough Guide, which also mentioned the existence of a rival group of Jajouka musicians. “Another, rival, Jajouka group exists and has also made an album and toured. They are not well regarded by the Bachir Attar group.” World Music The Rough Guide 1999 (p. 572) by Simon Broughton, Mark Ellingham, Richard Trillo, Orla Duane, Vanessa Dowell - 1999 (p. 572). The same book notes that Bachir Attar lived in New York (p.574).

If leadership of the musicians were in fact hereditary, then Bachir's father, Hadj Abdesalam Attar would have inherited the title from his father before him. There is no evidence of this. In fact, authoritative sources are either silent on the issue or name other leaders. Philip Schuyler makes no mention of hereditary leadership, nor do Brion Gysin, Burroughs, Hamri, or Robert Palmer. Whereas Hadj Abdesalam Attar was a leader of the musicians at the time of his death in 1982, we have sources to the effect that he was not the leader in the 1960s and 1970s

Rosemary Woodruff Leary(Timothy Leary's wife), who visited Joujuka in September 1969, wrote

“We could no longer see him. ‘Who is he?’ I asked Hamri. ‘Berdu, the Master’, Hamri replied. ‘The Master?’ The Master Musician of Joujouka’. Rosemary Woodruff Leary, "The Master Musicians" in Ed. Paul Krassner. Psychedelic Trips for the Mind, reprinted 2001, pp 58-62.

This indicates that Berdouz (real name: Mohamed Attar, a drummer) was leader at the time.

In 1976, Soft Need published a verbatim conversation between Rikki Stein, then manager of the musicians of the village, and Brion Gysin. In the conversation, the leaders are referred to as being Mallim Fedal and Mallim Berdouz; the circumstances of the anecdote date it in 1971-72 (Stein and Hamri were at the Rolling Stones' office in London at the time). Neither Berdouz nor Fedal were Bachir's grandfather, nor were they father and son. Therefore, the claim that leadership is hereditary begins to crumble. See Rikki Stein with Udo Berger, Brion Gysin and Jerry Baskin, "Hamri Send Up with our Shadows" in Ed Udo Berger, Soft Need No. 17, Brion Gysin Special, (Paris /Basel, 1977) p.66.

It is also interesting to note that Bachir is not the eldest son of Hadj Abdesalam Attar, and that he has older brothers where are musicians. How to explain this in the context of claimed heredity? Why didn't the eldest brother "take the mantle"?

The claim of hereditary leadership arose as part of a campaign to establish Bachir Attar as a commercial artist, and is not backed by any historical facts. Bachir is also the first musician from the village to seek headline billing apart from his fellow musicians (i.e. the "featuring Bachir Attar" phrase).

It can be concluded that Bachir Attar's claim to be hereditary leader of the village musicians is false. Therefore tassumptions of rights or legitimacy based on that false claim are void.

Two groups: Jajouka/Joujouka

The official Moroccan spelling is Zahjouka. Clearly, neither of the two groups of musicians currently performing use this official spelling. No particular group is more or less legitimate by virtue of using a particular spelling in its name.

Up until Bachir Attar launched his solo musical career, the names "Master Musicians of Joujouka" and "Master Musicians of Jajouka" were synonymous. Despite claims that Bachir Attar's group is the "real" Master Musicians of Jajouka, he actually trades under the names “Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar” and currently “Master Musicians of Jajouka led by Bachir Attar”.

In the 1960s, both the Joujouka and Jajouka spellings were used to refer to the musicians of the village. In a 1962 letter from Brion Gysin to Paul Bowles, quoted in John Geiger's "Nothing is True - Everything is Permitted", Gysin speaks of a nightclub “run by polished peasants of Joujouka quality”. (John Geiger Nothing is True - Everything is Permitted: The Life of Brion Gysin, 2005 .p.179.) Gysin also used the spelling Jajouka, as documented by User:BKLisenbee.

The Master Musicians of Joujouka are the cited artists on the original Brian Jones LP, released by Rolling Stones Records in 1971. Then in 1974, an LP entitled "Master Musicians of Jajouka" was released at a time when newspaper articles and books all used the name Joujouka. The name change was part of a dispute at the time over the recording. However it was recorded by the same group who worked with Brian Jones in 1968. In 1980 the group toured again as Master Musicians of Jajouka. The tour billed Master Musicians of Jajouka in 1980 ref The Guardian (1959-2003). London (UK): Sep 12, 1980. p. 3 (1 page).

I suggest, without prejudice, the page on Bachir Attar’s group is correctly named though he has just changed his trading name so this might be added as an also known as “Master Musicians of Jajouka led by Bachir Attar.

The Master Musicians of Joujouka page should reflect that they are also known as Master Musicians of Jajouka

I have several other points to make and souces to add.