| Revision as of 14:19, 9 November 2005 editDuja (talk | contribs)16,752 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 10:47, 10 November 2005 edit undoHrvoje1001 (talk | contribs)4 editsNo edit summaryNext edit → | ||
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| * No question of Torlak culture, and it has changed now into the same languages as Macedonia, Bulgaria and Serbia. My grandfather was from Preševo in todays southern Serbia, his wife, my grandmother was from Kumanovo in present day Macedonia. This was in first kingdom of Yugoslavia in late 1920s. He was travelling each day into Kumanovo by horseback when he met her and then after world war 2, a Macedonian state was established ruling Kumanovo inside Macedonia. Even before that, my grandfather always told me that people in both towns called themselves Torlaci and had naturally more common place with each other than had with different places more distant in Macedonia and further away in Serbia (but Serbian nationality was forced on them right from when Serbia was created in some time near 1830). I was born in Leskovac and I still speak a Torlakian form of the language, in Leskovac we don't use the definite article but my grandfather did use one because in Preševo, they did have it. But I still speak standard Serbian if I have to go to Belgrade or Novi Sad, that is the diglossia. ] november 3, 2005 | * No question of Torlak culture, and it has changed now into the same languages as Macedonia, Bulgaria and Serbia. My grandfather was from Preševo in todays southern Serbia, his wife, my grandmother was from Kumanovo in present day Macedonia. This was in first kingdom of Yugoslavia in late 1920s. He was travelling each day into Kumanovo by horseback when he met her and then after world war 2, a Macedonian state was established ruling Kumanovo inside Macedonia. Even before that, my grandfather always told me that people in both towns called themselves Torlaci and had naturally more common place with each other than had with different places more distant in Macedonia and further away in Serbia (but Serbian nationality was forced on them right from when Serbia was created in some time near 1830). I was born in Leskovac and I still speak a Torlakian form of the language, in Leskovac we don't use the definite article but my grandfather did use one because in Preševo, they did have it. But I still speak standard Serbian if I have to go to Belgrade or Novi Sad, that is the diglossia. ] november 3, 2005 | ||
| * What a poor excuse to speak a bad language. It is clear that the people from southern Serbia are not educated, none of them can speak properly, that is why we look down on them from the north. In my Vojvodina, the language is pure, so are the people, and so is our whole custom and way of life. In Vranje they go to Serbia state school and should know better than to speak Serbian language without padeža (cases). To think that this is a dialect going back hundreds of years is ridiculous. Everyone knows Old Slavonic language had cases. ] 4.11.2005 1130 CET | * What a poor excuse to speak a bad language. It is clear that the people from southern Serbia are not educated, none of them can speak properly, that is why we look down on them from the north. In my Vojvodina, the language is pure, so are the people, and so is our whole custom and way of life. In Vranje they go to Serbia state school and should know better than to speak Serbian language without padeža (cases). To think that this is a dialect going back hundreds of years is ridiculous. Everyone knows Old Slavonic language had cases. ] 4.11.2005 1130 CET | ||
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| : Good start Celtmist. I wikified the article somewhat and expanded on vocalic "L" as a feature; the table probably needs fixing as my knowledge on Bulgarian and Macedonian is inadequate (to put it mildly). Some sentences are still overly long, and frankly I didn't comprehend the long one about phoneme "h" so I just left it -- please clarify what you meant. ] 14:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC) | : Good start Celtmist. I wikified the article somewhat and expanded on vocalic "L" as a feature; the table probably needs fixing as my knowledge on Bulgarian and Macedonian is inadequate (to put it mildly). Some sentences are still overly long, and frankly I didn't comprehend the long one about phoneme "h" so I just left it -- please clarify what you meant. ] 14:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC) | ||
| :P.S. Please sign with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> so that your talk page can be reached. | :P.S. Please sign with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> so that your talk page can be reached. | ||
| ::I know roughly what it means Duja. I lived in Macedonia until the break-up of Yugoslavia but I'm actually from Vranje. Basicly, where other Slavic dialects have 'H', Southern Serbian and Macedonian in standard form omit it. It has just melted away over the years. But they have to keep it because if they remove it from their literary language, Ohrid will be renamed Orid! That would be unfair to people in Ohrid and might even give their 'intellectuals' a motive to foment revolution in the future. And there has been enough of that in my sweet part of the world! :) ] nov10 05 | |||
Revision as of 10:47, 10 November 2005
I confess to publishing the entire article without any sources or references. I spoke from knowledge; it is difficult to find things sometimes. I did do a quick search on Alltheweb.com and Yahoo.com but found little of much use. I will endevour to seek refernces which I will later add. In the meantime, if anyone knows anything I don't, I hope that they add it; or if I am wrong about something, change it freely, I will not re-alter it without discussing it here first. My knowledge is based on material which I have read in books, not on websites, and much of it was learnt when I spent a good few years travelling backward and forward to Eastern Europe in the late 80's and early 90's. I have otherwise maintained strong links with people from Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia and I still visit these countries frequently on business. Celtmist 3-11-05
- No question of Torlak culture, and it has changed now into the same languages as Macedonia, Bulgaria and Serbia. My grandfather was from Preševo in todays southern Serbia, his wife, my grandmother was from Kumanovo in present day Macedonia. This was in first kingdom of Yugoslavia in late 1920s. He was travelling each day into Kumanovo by horseback when he met her and then after world war 2, a Macedonian state was established ruling Kumanovo inside Macedonia. Even before that, my grandfather always told me that people in both towns called themselves Torlaci and had naturally more common place with each other than had with different places more distant in Macedonia and further away in Serbia (but Serbian nationality was forced on them right from when Serbia was created in some time near 1830). I was born in Leskovac and I still speak a Torlakian form of the language, in Leskovac we don't use the definite article but my grandfather did use one because in Preševo, they did have it. But I still speak standard Serbian if I have to go to Belgrade or Novi Sad, that is the diglossia. Jordovan november 3, 2005
- What a poor excuse to speak a bad language. It is clear that the people from southern Serbia are not educated, none of them can speak properly, that is why we look down on them from the north. In my Vojvodina, the language is pure, so are the people, and so is our whole custom and way of life. In Vranje they go to Serbia state school and should know better than to speak Serbian language without padeža (cases). To think that this is a dialect going back hundreds of years is ridiculous. Everyone knows Old Slavonic language had cases. Arvatov 4.11.2005 1130 CET
- Good start Celtmist. I wikified the article somewhat and expanded on vocalic "L" as a feature; the table probably needs fixing as my knowledge on Bulgarian and Macedonian is inadequate (to put it mildly). Some sentences are still overly long, and frankly I didn't comprehend the long one about phoneme "h" so I just left it -- please clarify what you meant. Duja 14:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
- P.S. Please sign with ~~~~ so that your talk page can be reached.
- I know roughly what it means Duja. I lived in Macedonia until the break-up of Yugoslavia but I'm actually from Vranje. Basicly, where other Slavic dialects have 'H', Southern Serbian and Macedonian in standard form omit it. It has just melted away over the years. But they have to keep it because if they remove it from their literary language, Ohrid will be renamed Orid! That would be unfair to people in Ohrid and might even give their 'intellectuals' a motive to foment revolution in the future. And there has been enough of that in my sweet part of the world! :) Hrvoje nov10 05