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Revision as of 20:39, 24 November 2005

Islamofascism (term)

POV entry to make a point on a subject which has already been dealt with in various guises, in particlular in the NPOV titled Neofascism and religion. -- Irishpunktom\ 14:29, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

The previous AfD is at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Islamofascism. SlimVirgin 15:19, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to Neofascism and religion. BrandonYusufToropov 14:45, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, or move to Islamofascism. I think that pretty much anyone who has a basic understanding of either Islamism or Fascism realizes that this concept is nonsensical, but despite this it is inarguable that the term is today a popular one. Misplaced Pages cannot, and should not, exclude ideas on because we believe they are incorrect. Any political term or concept in wide currency deserves its own article. - SimonP 15:05, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Limp, lukewarm keep At one time I was in favour of deleting or merging with Neofascism and religion but with Bush using the term several times and other appearances in mainstream media I now think it might be better to have a separate article. It's going to be a real PITA to keep it NPOV this stinker attracts whacky edits like flies. By the way this article has already survived an AFD, how did it get back here? --Lee Hunter 15:07, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, This is a controversial term of significant and increasing notability, including now being used by President of US. As with Great Satan or vast right-wing conspiracy, one does not have to agree with the term to recognize its notability. If the article needs to be NPOV'd please help to do so. I think you misunderstand meaning of WP:POINT. People who are working on this article genuinely believe it is notable and should exist. WP:POINT involves doing things you know are inappropriate in order to make a point. Babajobu 15:14, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per Babajobu, and Move to Islamofascism per standard naming for controversial, debated political terms (like the two he cites). Andrew Levine 15:49, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per Babajobu, and move to Islamofascism -- Karl Meier 16:21, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and move back to Islamofascism if possible. Real Concept. Klonimus 16:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and move to Islamofascism as per article naming conventions. the wub "?!" 17:23, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per Andrew Levine. There is also a long discussion on this on Talk:Islamofascism (term). By the way, why is the "Neofascism and religion" article not called "Fascism and religion"?Kefalonia 17:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. I'd suggest that it would make sense to have both Fascism and religion and Neofascism and religion. Our article about Clerical fascism isn't really doing its job. Jkelly 20:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep 269,000 google hits as islamofascism, 349,000 google hits as islamo-fascism. this word is in wide use.--CltFn 17:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep No serious researcher uses Misplaced Pages anyway, unfortunately. These guys with deep interests in keeping the Islamofascism term are very much against adding anti-Islam as a valid term separate from Islamophobia. --JuanMuslim 18:11, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I am? Hmmm. Please keep me apprised of any other opinions I develop. Babajobu 18:34, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Members of the SIIEG Guild are among the most noteworthy POV pushers on Misplaced Pages--JuanMuslim 00:25, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Please read WP:NPA, JuanMuslim. -- Karl Meier 13:30, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to Neofascism and religion. --Khalid! 18:51, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Neofascism and religion --a.n.o.n.y.m 19:33, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge & redirect to Neofascism and religion . The article is just gonna be used for attacks on Islam . People who want this article are well known for this non-sense . When there is a whole big section on Islam & fachism , there is no point of starting a new article on it . Bush uses a lot of terms , like the famous "we are on a crusade" , or the "operation shock & awe" , that is now changed to "operation enduring freedom". But is bush running this site?? Furthermore why isnt there any separate article on christianfascism or hindufascism . And most important , Americanfascism . The information black outs ( & the media that calls itself free & unbiased ), attacks on countries without UN permission , "either you are with us or against us", pre-emptive strike doctrine ....isnt all this fascism . Same standards should be followed for every article . This POV pushing is the kind of thing because of which no person would use Wp for serious research . Because there always are people who consider their biased understanding as facts . Farhansher 19:40, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Please refrain from ad hominem attacks and irrelevant rants. the wub "?!" 21:34, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
    • This isnt irrelevent rant . When anything of that sort isnt given special attention , then why the very same POV pushers should be allowed to give this kind of attention to Islam . This isnt the first time they have done it , they do it every day . Why isnt there any discusion on starting Christian fascism and Judeofascism . BTW reality isnt ad hominem . Farhansher 20:39, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• keep Term in common use, and article is meaty enough not to be redirected IMHOBorisblue 21:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Common phrase and while article could do with more tweaking it covers the ground reasonably well. Capitalistroadster 23:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, Neofascism and religion is Chip Berlet propoganda peice, and should be merged itself. Its certainly no place to move content. Sam Spade 23:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• merge & redirect to Neofascism and religion, the only sane solution. Just zis  Guy, you know? / (W) AfD? 23:41, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and move per above voters. Very notable concept. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:02, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and move, but watch closely --RaiderAspect 03:11, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Neofascism and religion. This has avoided nasty revert wars and awful bigotry --Cberlet 04:21, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and move to Islamofascism as per article naming conventions. This article may deserve mention at Neofascism and religion but the subject merits an article of its own. The word "Islamofascism" is used widely enough for wikipedia to justifiably have an article under this heading. It should also be noted that Neofascism and religion was originally created in response to the article Islamofascism as part of a VfD effort by the same people who have brought us this present VfD. The freedom of thought must be upheld, despite the protestation of Muslim apologia - we have a right to freely inquire as to what is Islamofascism, who invented this neoligism, what it could mean, who uses the word and in what contexts, what is the reason for associating Islam with Islamofascism, etc. -- Zeno of Elea 08:32, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and move, term in common usage, though I'm putting on some extra thick pyjamas in light of those I'm sharing a bed with, such as the Hon. Member for Elea above. The word's existence is a blight on the world, but not on Misplaced Pages. --Last Malthusian 09:30, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Neofascism and religion. PassionInfinity 10:06, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect as above, as has been done with similar articles. - ulayiti ] 11:01, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Reluctant Keep, term is appears to be uninformative right-wing nonsence but has been widely used, and not just by nutty bloggers. Page should be watched for POV and there should be a more explicit link to the Neofascism and religion article as the main discusion of the concepts invovled. Hmm.. these think pyjamas are comfy.--JK the unwise 13:54, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Neofascism and religion. On one hand, it has emerged (unfortunately) from being an obscure term and is very likely to be looked up on encyclopedias; on the other hand, it is most likely to be used for propaganda rather than intellectual discourse, and having it redirected to Neofascism and religion would be more NPOV in my opinion. Ramallite 14:21, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge anything verifiable and NPOV to Neofascism and religion. Jkelly 17:46, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Neofascism and religion. --Ya Ali 18:13, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Strong keep Wow, everytime you turn around there is someone trying to take down this page. But that being what it may,"Islamofascism" is now part of the world language and you cannot get the genie back in the bottle. Presidents, the media , scholars use the word, the topic deserves its page--Fredwlerr 18:26, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per babajobu Zeq 19:57, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Comments

comment American fascism 78 000 hits, enough to make a article about it. --Striver 20:15, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Lol! There already was one! --Striver 20:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

christian fascism 22,900 hits. --Striver 20:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

'For the record Christian fascism and Judeofascism both redirect to Neofascism and religion. BrandonYusufToropov 21:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

'For the recordI created the page Neofascism and religion to provide a way for these types of terms to be discussed in a context that lowered the heat on the editing flame wars. There is no reason an encyclopedia cannot list a term and then refer people to a larger article that puts it in context. Check out the index to any major encyclopedia and compare it to the table of contents. Many terms indexed, but far fewer actual articles. There is no issue of censorship whatsoever. This is hyperbole. Finally, I am hardly an apologist for militant Islamic fundamentalism, having published both popular and scholarly articles discussing how it intersects with clerical or theocratic forms of neofascism.--Cberlet 17:17, 24 November 2005 (UTC)