User talk:Frei Hans: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 01:14, 9 June 2009 editFrei Hans (talk \| contribs)743 edits →June 2009 ← Previous edit		Revision as of 02:15, 9 June 2009 edit undoSifaka (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users2,753 edits →June 2009: helpful stuffNext edit →
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	:::It was my understanding that Misplaced Pages policy is to apply journalistic and academic conventions to a collectively produced "living" encyclopedia. I understood that Misplaced Pages set out to produce content that could stand up in the face of journalistic and academic criticism with integrity, while making content collection and production methods accessible to people who might not be journalist's or academics themselves. This is reflected in Misplaced Pages's neutrality policy, and in most Wikipedian policy relating to style and referencing. Perhaps we should be careful to maintain these principles instead of sacrificing them when content becomes controversial. ] (]) 01:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		:::It was my understanding that Misplaced Pages policy is to apply journalistic and academic conventions to a collectively produced "living" encyclopedia. I understood that Misplaced Pages set out to produce content that could stand up in the face of journalistic and academic criticism with integrity, while making content collection and production methods accessible to people who might not be journalist's or academics themselves. This is reflected in Misplaced Pages's neutrality policy, and in most Wikipedian policy relating to style and referencing. Perhaps we should be careful to maintain these principles instead of sacrificing them when content becomes controversial. ] (]) 01:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	::Yeah, you maintain quite a cool head in the face of all the criticism (bordering ridicule), showing considerable maturity and restraint. Thanks! I agree with the other editors though, that you good faith contributions in fact constitute a personal essay, violating OR and SYN, and as such, unsuitable for Misplaced Pages. Take a deep breath and ponder for a while. ] (]) 21:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)		::Yeah, you maintain quite a cool head in the face of all the criticism (bordering ridicule), showing considerable maturity and restraint. Thanks! I agree with the other editors though, that you good faith contributions in fact constitute a personal essay, violating OR and SYN, and as such, unsuitable for Misplaced Pages. Take a deep breath and ponder for a while. ] (]) 21:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
			===Some useful info===
			I want to note that a was a bit brief with my reason for deletion in the article AFD which may have been unnecessarily brusque. I apologize for that. I really hope this experience won't scare you away from Misplaced Pages. I do want to note that I was very impressed with your skilled use of layout, quotes, and some of the finer details like proper reference format. You did the right thing by going to ] for feedback. I realize the difficulty of taking in and remembering all the various policies people bring up. (like ] ]). <br>
			Here are some resources which may help you in the future:
			*The ] is an excellent place to ask questions about generally anything Misplaced Pages related. The ] is similar.
			*Note that you can create subpages of your user page such as ] (you edit in it and save it to make a new page - it's just like making a new article). You can work on copies of new articles here before putting them in the Mainspace. You can also ask people at ] and ] to take a look at it and give feedback.
			*A short description of and links to all the major policies can be found at ]. There are also ] which are lower on the totem poll than policies but are generally recommended.
			*If you get into an argument with another editor ] contains several of the various steps you should try. Do note that you should not try Formal Mediation (which is not the same as the mediation cabal which is often called informal mediation) unless you have tried the other options first.
			:*There are also several notice boards which I can't find a dedicated page listing them. You can see the lot of them at the top of ]. Note that many of the noticeboards are specific. It may be useful to take a look at some of things people report.
			*You can keep track of changes made to any page in wikipedia by adding it to your "watchlist". You can see instructions how to do so here at ].
			*You can look at the history of revisions to any particular page, see who edited what, and compare old versus new versions using the ]. Rather strangely, there is also a link to page view statistics there so you can see how many times a page gets viewed.
			*You can enable the very handy navigation popups which lets you see details of a Misplaced Pages link by hovering over it by going to my preferences in the upper right, selecting the gadgets tab on the far right and enabling navigational popups under browsing gadgets. Twinkle is another popular tool, but I don't use it.<br>
			Hope all this helps, ] <sup>]</sup> 02:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:15, 9 June 2009

Welcome!

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, Frei Hans! I am Call me Bubba and have been editing Misplaced Pages for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Misplaced Pages! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page or by typing {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!

Call me Bubba (talk) 04:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

File:Unwired head.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Unwired head.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Papa November (talk) 12:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, was surprised to find this as I specifically set out to create an original image to illustrate the article. I found that attribution of a modified element in the image had been called into question - although I did attribute the creator in uploading the image (as I would expect if someone had modified elements from my own work). I have contacted the original creator of that element and am waiting for a reply so that we can resolve any issues that might involve licensing. I'm putting the image on hold until I have heard back from them. Frei Hans (talk) 13:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Telepathy and war

I have nominated Telepathy and war, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Telepathy and war. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Verbal chat 19:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

June 2009

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Telepathy and war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Verbal chat 11:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello 'Verbal chat'. I would like to assure you that I am engaged in no such thing as an edit war, and am working to improve an article in its formative stages. I reverted the article to compare recent changes from users who, by a mind less generous than mine, might be seen to be engaging in editorial combat on a new article (coincidentally addressing advances in military technology). Again, please rest secure in the knowledge that I am only working to improve the article. I note that the article is no longer tagged for deletion, and am pleased with this resolution. I hope that new edits by others are made in sincerity and in the true spirit of Wikipedian neutrality, and with intent to improve the article and steer clear of vandalism and attempts to sabotage other genuine efforts. Frei Hans (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

It is still tagged for deletion, any removal of the tag is an error. Verbal chat 12:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I just revisited the article and see that a user has removed a lot of referenced content. Originally the article had 19 footnotes from 19 sources. Now it has two. The user deleted all of the referenced material and then wrote on the articles for deletion page that he had removed "unreferenced" material. I am not convinced these edits are intended to help or improve the article. I consider this vandalism, and on reading the discussion tabs on your own user page suspect that you have engaged in "editorial wars" before. I have never experienced this on Misplaced Pages before and suspect it is because of the content. While the article is verifiable and the references were all published by reputable sources, it seems that users with less neutrality than myself are unable to accept that Misplaced Pages should be updated with new advances in technology. Frei Hans (talk) 13:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I was recently blocked for edit warring, so I am aware of the issue. The reason I was blocked was because I tried to preserve the unreferenced information in a WP:BLP by adding tags and removing some of the controversial edits, whereas per the BLP rules I should have just removed all of it. I learnt my lesson (and there were extenuating factors but I'm not afraid of admitting I made a mistake). This case is different, and I'm not protected by WP:BLP. However, you should have a look at WP:NOTVAND to see why the edits you describe are not vandalism. Also, you are engaged in synthesis (WP:SYN) and original research (WP:OR). You are not simply reporting what reliable sources state (and many of your sources were not WP:RS, such as Slashdot), but are drawing inferences, making conclusions, and writing a thesis with a decided editorial slant (against WP:NPOV). You are also describing biofeedback toys as "telepathy", which is just odd. The page will likely be deleted, but the stub that is now left is a lot better than the article you introduced. I'm sorry that you obviously spent so much time on something that isn't right for wikipedia. I'd chalk this up to a learning experience, and perhaps you can find a forum, blog, or other wiki (Google knol, perhaps) that would take your essay. Verbal chat 14:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

It's very common for new editors (who may also be writers with advanced skills) to try to apply journalistic or academic conventions and style to encyclopedic articles, and from your misunderstanding of WP:OR and other policies, I'm guessing this is the case here. A lot of us have made the same mistakes and lived through it. As others have said, chalk it up to a learning experience and go on from there. - LuckyLouie (talk) 17:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

It was my understanding that Misplaced Pages policy is to apply journalistic and academic conventions to a collectively produced "living" encyclopedia. I understood that Misplaced Pages set out to produce content that could stand up in the face of journalistic and academic criticism with integrity, while making content collection and production methods accessible to people who might not be journalist's or academics themselves. This is reflected in Misplaced Pages's neutrality policy, and in most Wikipedian policy relating to style and referencing. Perhaps we should be careful to maintain these principles instead of sacrificing them when content becomes controversial. Frei Hans (talk) 01:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, you maintain quite a cool head in the face of all the criticism (bordering ridicule), showing considerable maturity and restraint. Thanks! I agree with the other editors though, that you good faith contributions in fact constitute a personal essay, violating OR and SYN, and as such, unsuitable for Misplaced Pages. Take a deep breath and ponder for a while. Power.corrupts (talk) 21:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Some useful info

I want to note that a was a bit brief with my reason for deletion in the article AFD which may have been unnecessarily brusque. I apologize for that. I really hope this experience won't scare you away from Misplaced Pages. I do want to note that I was very impressed with your skilled use of layout, quotes, and some of the finer details like proper reference format. You did the right thing by going to Misplaced Pages:Editor assistance/Requests for feedback. I realize the difficulty of taking in and remembering all the various policies people bring up. (like WP:OR WP:SYN).
Here are some resources which may help you in the future:

The Misplaced Pages:Help Desk is an excellent place to ask questions about generally anything Misplaced Pages related. The Misplaced Pages:Reference desk is similar.
Note that you can create subpages of your user page such as User:Frei Hans/sandbox (you edit in it and save it to make a new page - it's just like making a new article). You can work on copies of new articles here before putting them in the Mainspace. You can also ask people at Misplaced Pages:Editor assistance/Requests and Misplaced Pages:Help Desk to take a look at it and give feedback.
A short description of and links to all the major policies can be found at Misplaced Pages:List of policies. There are also guidelines which are lower on the totem poll than policies but are generally recommended.
If you get into an argument with another editor WP:Dispute resolution requests contains several of the various steps you should try. Do note that you should not try Formal Mediation (which is not the same as the mediation cabal which is often called informal mediation) unless you have tried the other options first.

There are also several notice boards which I can't find a dedicated page listing them. You can see the lot of them at the top of this page which is the fringe theories noticeboard. Note that many of the noticeboards are specific. It may be useful to take a look at some of things people report.

You can keep track of changes made to any page in wikipedia by adding it to your "watchlist". You can see instructions how to do so here at Help:Watching pages.
You can look at the history of revisions to any particular page, see who edited what, and compare old versus new versions using the page history tab. Rather strangely, there is also a link to page view statistics there so you can see how many times a page gets viewed.
You can enable the very handy navigation popups which lets you see details of a Misplaced Pages link by hovering over it by going to my preferences in the upper right, selecting the gadgets tab on the far right and enabling navigational popups under browsing gadgets. Twinkle is another popular tool, but I don't use it.

Hope all this helps, Sifaka 02:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)