Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Socionics: Difference between revisions

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	::: read ]. This is ethnocentrism at its worst. See the references in the socionics article. ] (]) 14:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)		::: read ]. This is ethnocentrism at its worst. See the references in the socionics article. ] (]) 14:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
	:::: There are many theories that treat the same phenomena, some are notable others are not. It's unreasonable to argue that because Misplaced Pages has a page on using ] to treat cancer, all other proposed treatments for cancer are automatically notable as well. ] (]) 15:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)		:::: There are many theories that treat the same phenomena, some are notable others are not. It's unreasonable to argue that because Misplaced Pages has a page on using ] to treat cancer, all other proposed treatments for cancer are automatically notable as well. ] (]) 15:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

			:::::Yes but, can you really say that the other treatments are better than chemo? Socionics is a much, much better model than the MBTI. ] (]) 17:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

	::::When someone cites 1 policy, you can't automatically cite ] and conveniently ignore the cited policy. You do not understand IAR. That's not our fault. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> <sub>]</sub> 14:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)		::::When someone cites 1 policy, you can't automatically cite ] and conveniently ignore the cited policy. You do not understand IAR. That's not our fault. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> <sub>]</sub> 14:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

	:::::We'll see what happens. I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. It'll be instructive. I'm especially concerned with understanding why you are so determined to deny "the MBTI of the East" legitimacy. They don't use MBTI in Russia; they use Socionics. ] (]) 15:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)		:::::We'll see what happens. I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. It'll be instructive. I'm especially concerned with understanding why you are so determined to deny "the MBTI of the East" legitimacy. They don't use MBTI in Russia; they use Socionics. ] (]) 15:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

			:::::The discussion over socionics' origin is not in doubt: Aushra Augusta created it. What is contested is how she created it, which if you think about it, shows just how different a socionics-based point of view is from a typically Western point of view. In Western-oriented sciences, when someone presents a new thesis, people rarely even ask how he came about it or how it was inspired. Reuben McNew, who has a degree in theology, is merely suggesting that Ashura Augusta created socionics as an alternative to traditional mysticism. People don't have to look to mysticism as a source of self-knowledge, because now they have socionics and with it, a realist framework that unites the empirical and the esoteric in one whole.

			:::::Socionics is really the great undiscovered science of the modern East. Why it has not been embraced and expanded upon by Western researchers is beyond me; but again, culture clash. ] (]) 17:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

	:::::: Can you provide a source that backs up that statement? A source in Russian would be fine. That would go a long way towards showing notability. ] (]) 15:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)		:::::: Can you provide a source that backs up that statement? A source in Russian would be fine. That would go a long way towards showing notability. ] (]) 15:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

			::::::: The sources are in the article. Just look them up and away you go.

			::::::: Here's a good one. was issued before the Russian Duma recently.

			::::::: Another: http://74.125.95.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://socionics.ru/&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhh5SgOkm_FTbJx-eAsOWrjDU9E6pQ ] (]) 17:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

	*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the ]. <!--Template:Delsort--></small> <small>-- ] (]) 14:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)</small>		*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the ]. <!--Template:Delsort--></small> <small>-- ] (]) 14:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)</small>

Revision as of 17:07, 27 June 2009

Socionics

No evidence of real notability has been presented after several requests. This appears to be a Eastern European fringe psychological movement of contested origin, and all material presented is from proponents. Mangoe (talk) 03:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Also nominating following derivative articles:

The following already have nominations:

Socionics (esoterism) (discussion) is a content fork.

Information metabolism (discussion) is a WP:COATRACK for socionics.

The latter two should be deleted regardless of the outcome of this discussion. Mangoe (talk) 03:14, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Weak keep parent article, merge rest A few mentions on Google. May be notable enough for its own article, however all the "logical sensory extrovert" things should be merged into the parent article. Also, for the record, I think this is a VERY weak keep. Aditya _ß 06:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

~~Keep parent article, merge most of the rest~~ Weak keep parent article, merge rest: External sources found using google scholar search, however, the field is not notable enough to merit the host of articles currently existing. Contrast with Ebonics, which has only one article, but has 4,240 google scholar hits, vs 372 for socionics. LK (talk) 09:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I checked out the Google scholar references. They are about something completely different, an AI notion related to petri nets. After three pages of results I found only one that might have something to do with personality typing. Mangoe (talk) 14:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Mangoe is right, most of those links are about something else altogether. I'm changing my vote to weak keep. Additionally, a new page should probably be created for this other type of socionics, and a disambiguation page made. LK (talk) 15:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Strong keep For reasons that should be obvious. Stipulation: if you delete socionics, you must delete MBTI as well because they are descriptions of the same phenomena, only with different models. Even if you keep both of them, you still cannot delete the socionics type article without deleting the MBTI type articles as well. It's only fair. Tcaudilllg (talk) 13:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
- read Misplaced Pages:Other stuff exists and look at the sources on the MBTI article. Duffbeerforme (talk) 13:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

read Misplaced Pages:Ignore all rules. This is ethnocentrism at its worst. See the references in the socionics article. Tcaudilllg (talk) 14:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

There are many theories that treat the same phenomena, some are notable others are not. It's unreasonable to argue that because Misplaced Pages has a page on using chemotherapy to treat cancer, all other proposed treatments for cancer are automatically notable as well. LK (talk) 15:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes but, can you really say that the other treatments are better than chemo? Socionics is a much, much better model than the MBTI. Tcaudilllg (talk) 17:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

When someone cites 1 policy, you can't automatically cite WP:IAR and conveniently ignore the cited policy. You do not understand IAR. That's not our fault. Aditya _ß 14:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

We'll see what happens. I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. It'll be instructive. I'm especially concerned with understanding why you are so determined to deny "the MBTI of the East" legitimacy. They don't use MBTI in Russia; they use Socionics. Tcaudilllg (talk) 15:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

The discussion over socionics' origin is not in doubt: Aushra Augusta created it. What is contested is how she created it, which if you think about it, shows just how different a socionics-based point of view is from a typically Western point of view. In Western-oriented sciences, when someone presents a new thesis, people rarely even ask how he came about it or how it was inspired. Reuben McNew, who has a degree in theology, is merely suggesting that Ashura Augusta created socionics as an alternative to traditional mysticism. People don't have to look to mysticism as a source of self-knowledge, because now they have socionics and with it, a realist framework that unites the empirical and the esoteric in one whole.

Socionics is really the great undiscovered science of the modern East. Why it has not been embraced and expanded upon by Western researchers is beyond me; but again, culture clash. Tcaudilllg (talk) 17:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Can you provide a source that backs up that statement? A source in Russian would be fine. That would go a long way towards showing notability. LK (talk) 15:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

The sources are in the article. Just look them up and away you go.

Here's a good one. Apparently a report on socionics was issued before the Russian Duma recently.

Another: http://74.125.95.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://socionics.ru/&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhh5SgOkm_FTbJx-eAsOWrjDU9E6pQ Tcaudilllg (talk) 17:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Social science-related deletion discussions. -- TexasAndroid (talk) 14:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Delete all per nom. WP:IAR never impresses me, especially when it is being applied to something that doesn't improve WP. Niteshift36 (talk) 15:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Delete - per nominator's arguments. ClovisPt (talk) 16:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

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