Revision as of 10:56, 16 July 2009 editBishonen (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators80,268 edits →Question about Jimbo Wales' block of Bishonen: Arbitration? Perish the thought.← Previous edit | Revision as of 01:44, 17 July 2009 edit undoCasliber (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators200,912 edits involvedNext edit → | ||
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::::I'm quite disillusioned with the arbcom's disinclination to deal with this matter. I only seem to get any reaction from them when I make a fuss, as I'm doing now. And then it's a "perish-the-thought" reaction. If there are any arbitrators out there who feel differently, I wish they'd speak up; but it's not looking much like it. (Newyorkbrad? My question was originally addressed to you. See your page.) ] | ] 10:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC). | ::::I'm quite disillusioned with the arbcom's disinclination to deal with this matter. I only seem to get any reaction from them when I make a fuss, as I'm doing now. And then it's a "perish-the-thought" reaction. If there are any arbitrators out there who feel differently, I wish they'd speak up; but it's not looking much like it. (Newyorkbrad? My question was originally addressed to you. See your page.) ] | ] 10:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC). | ||
I have been thinking about this a bit. One aspect which might be worth discussing at an RfC, and hopefully someone having a look at the history of the concept of 'involved', is the concept of 'involved' - in a case where editor A and editor B are clearly friends, and admin C is known to have an issue with editor B, but then blocks editor A in a borderline case. Similarly with points of view etc. For instance, I am an inclusionist, and as such I would not block a deleletion-minded editor on pronciple unless it was a blindingly obvious totally unambiguous reason to do so - however, when I expressed this elsewhere, it appeared my criteria for 'involved' were broader (or stricter or whatever) than other admins. In ''general'', this might be a good thing to nut out, unless done so elsewhere (????). Of course, it is better not to use specific examples in RfCs, as this not only polarises opinion but distorts it as well as editors will subconsciously associate a specific action takne against a specific editor (which they may disagree with), whereas they might have actually been in favour of the principle or vice versa). ] (] '''·''' ]) 01:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
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Predeciding the Durova case
Taking a bold step and collapsing. Too often, Wikipedians raise issues of principle as if they were bargaining chips--things to remind others of when one finds it convenient for them to act a certain way. Real principle is what guides one's own actions in decisions that are inconvenient but right.
This thread was started in violation of policy: WP:LINKVIO to be exact. That is a policy I've acted upon many times before, and the right thing to do is to act upon it uniformly. If he exposed a greater wrong, I was the only one harmed by it. So surely I cannot be accused of coverup in a situation where exposure would only help me. Ethical decisions where good people disagree belong in the hands of the individuals who live with the consequences.
Over the last few years people have confided in me in situations where they were unsure whether to trust the Committee's confidentiality: these people were deciding whether to blow the whistle on improper action by Wikipedians in high places; a few had been subject to offsite harassment; a small number even feared for their livelihoods. An indispensable part of ArbCom's mission is to be a venue where people in those situations can take legitimate issues.
The current Committee is almost entirely composed of different people from 2007; this is being reviewed in good hands. My request to the community is to exercise discretion and dignity. If broader questions remain after this instance is handled, please raise those questions then. Both the questions and the responses are likely to be wiser that way. Durova 15:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
- Once again the iron fist inside the velvet glove eh Durova:) But I will agree with you that dredging up this old muck accomplishes nothing. Those highly regretable 2007 events occurred under what I refer to as The Fred Bauder Court. At that time its main goal was to Get Giano, for reasons both political and personal. They needed a causus and leaking classified info (Talking about Fight Club:) provided them with as good a reason as any. You were simply collateral damage- An accptable casualty and an expendable cog. And thus an ill considered, 75 minute block perminately stains your otherwise commendable record of service. It is also a prime example of why Smoke-filled rooms, especially when they are off-wiki, are bad things. Until you learn the lesson that greater transparency is not the disease but the cure, I fear you will not find redemption.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) (talk) 22:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
- Durova helped me with an issue when I had concerns of harassment. I had approached her in offsite communication; the matter could not have been handled onsite. I respect her decision to risk the outcome of her own appeal, in order to preserve this level of trust with others. Cirt (talk) 21:01, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
- The rest of this enlightening discussion can be found here--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) (talk) 03:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
- It's difficult to see how Durova blanking a discussion critical of the Committee's coordinator would "risk the outcome of her own appeal." Her specious appeal to WP:LINKVIO has foreclosed a conversation which can only have deeply uncomfortable for Mr. Lokshin; shall she now go unrewarded?70.90.183.122 (talk) 00:07, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
- Durova helped me with an issue when I had concerns of harassment. I had approached her in offsite communication; the matter could not have been handled onsite. I respect her decision to risk the outcome of her own appeal, in order to preserve this level of trust with others. Cirt (talk) 21:01, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
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I've just been sent (redacted by Durova per WP:LINKVIO) link with what appears to be arbitrators meatpuppeting to get the arbcom case on Durova accepted. Basically, Kirill Lokshin, arbcom co-ordinator is asking for someone to bring the case forward so he can accept it, and ex-arb Dmcdevit is agreeing to with the proviso that the case is accepted quickly so that it will "deflect the inevitable drama coming way". This is a fairly old case, though its effects are still felt. The point here is that every single case brought forward to ArbCom no has no/little integrity, when we have shenanigans like that going on behind our backs. How do we know that arbitrators aren't meatpuppeting each other to accept/decline cases according to their own preference? It is concerning that the "co-ordinator" of Arbcom, Kirill Lokshin is involved with this, and it makes me wonder how frequently this goes on. It is a violation of arbitration policy, point number 6 when arbitrators are being requested to rule. Like any government system, there is always going to be corruption of some sort, it seems. Majorly talk 22:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
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Question about Jimbo Wales' block of Bishonen
Above (collapsed) Newyorkbrad writes a question to the community that worries me a little:
- Should there be a mechanism whereby if we see a dispute boiling over, the committee can reach out and request input on whether we should open a case on our own (nostra sponte, as it were), or should we be bound to wait for the happenstance of whether a user unaffiliated with the committee chooses to bring the case to arbitration? This is not, incidentally, a rhetorical question, but one I have been thinking about for some time, and I can see arguments on both sides. (On the one hand, an issue that not even one user feels the need to file a case on can probably be resolved without arbitration and is likely to blow over; on the other hand, it is frustrating as heck to watch a situation bubble for days on a drama-filled noticeboard, while 15 of the most experienced administrators are contrained from commenting on it lest they be accused of bias should the case later come to arbitration after all.) Community input on this issue would be welcome, particularly since we're in the middle of updating the Arbitration Policy in any event. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I didn't know that the arbcom was so strictly enjoined from opening a case sua sponte. Of course the committee also deals with stuff that doesn't exactly amount to opening cases. I'd like to know if other similar matters must also be addressed by the "happenstance" of an unaffilated user bringing them to the committee, or else be ignored? To exemplify: if I want the arbcom to deal with the issue of Jimbo Wales's "Jimbo block" of myself on May 22 (which I do), would it be an advantage for me to file a case about it? If I don't file one, might I find it dismissed as something that "can probably be resolved without arbitration and is likely to blow over" ? It's a matter which it seems fair to characterize as "boiling over", after recently being subject to mediation. A pretty unique question, I realize—uncharted waters—but can the committee be relied on to deal with it as far as in them lies—somehow—I obviously don't know what, if anything, they might do—or is anything like that up to me? Ought I to bring it to the committee's attention if I want them to take notice of it? Does the involvement of a GodKing make it more, or perhaps less, necessary for me to act for myself? Bishonen | talk 18:10, 12 July 2009 (UTC). Please do not collapse this. It's a (multi-headed) question for the committee, and I want them to see it. Bishonen | talk 18:10, 12 July 2009 (UTC).
- In general, yes. If you feel attention should be given to what you feel is admin misbehavior, then it needs to be brought to the committee as we have no generally applicable mechanism to deal with incidents we do see but for which we have not been requested to intervene. In fact, my recent break had to do with the necessity to step back from the frustrating situation of being unable to do something I felt was important because our hands are tied exactly that way.
That being said, in general we pretty much decline to intervene is short blocks (mostly out of practicality, any short block would have long expired before we could render a decision), unless there is a pattern of egregious misbehavior to examine and a case can be made for it. — Coren 12:50, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- That's a disappointing, kind of stunted and lawyerly, reply, Coren. OK, I did ask a question; I didn't post in order to hold forth on my own opinions. But even so... as I said, it's a pretty unique question, and I request that you address it as such. Surely you're aware that the length of the block doesn't come into it; that Jimbo Wales' use of his tools isn't common or garden "admin misbehaviour", regardless of when it took place; that there is a pattern of egregious misbehaviour (see examples at User talk:Bishonen/block discussion); and that this is a GodKing we're talking about. Could I have a more responsive reply, please? I can't believe that Coren's is the sum of the committee's views on my query. Bishonen | talk 14:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC).
- No, it's just my own. At any rate, part of the reason why my answer was vague is that your question was vague: if you told me what you expected the committee to be able to do in that case, I'd be in a much better position to tell you how to go about it. You'll find that (mirroring the community) the arbitrators' positions on the propriety and well-founded of Jimbo's block is varied but that unless you contend this is a valid case for an emergency desysop there is nothing ArbCom can do on its own impetus. In other words, what relief do you seek? — Coren 15:32, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- What relief do I seek? Let me see... OK, I seek an acknowledgement from either the blocking admin (Jimbo Wales) or the arbitration committee in my log that the block was wrongful. And I further seek an admonishment of Jimbo Wales by the committee. I'll be glad to suggest some suitable phrasing of that admonishment if desired. Now that I've said so, can/will the arbcom act under its own steam? Or not? Bishonen | talk 18:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC).
- Such an admonishment would normally only come out of a full case, which you would have to initiate (as Vasyanna correctly notes below, it is extraordinarily difficult for the committee to do so itself). Obviously, we cannot coerce an apology (and a coerced apology is meaningless in the first place), but block annotations have been made when the findings warrant it. — Coren 02:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you; I will respond to Vassyana later. I suppose I do need to go for a full case, then. No, indeed an apology cannot be coerced--IMO it shouldn't even be requested (though Jimbo has insisted up hill and down dale that I need to apologize to what he bathetically calls my "victim"). I only put in the notion of Jimbo annotating my log as an alternative, in case he prefers that to a log annotation by the committee. (Which would not be strange.) You see, I hope, that neither of my requests require any apolology? A log annotation from the committee would be just fine with me; while an admonishment would of course come from the committee, not the admonishee. If, as you say, the findings warrant it. Bishonen | talk 10:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC).
- Such an admonishment would normally only come out of a full case, which you would have to initiate (as Vasyanna correctly notes below, it is extraordinarily difficult for the committee to do so itself). Obviously, we cannot coerce an apology (and a coerced apology is meaningless in the first place), but block annotations have been made when the findings warrant it. — Coren 02:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- That's a disappointing, kind of stunted and lawyerly, reply, Coren. OK, I did ask a question; I didn't post in order to hold forth on my own opinions. But even so... as I said, it's a pretty unique question, and I request that you address it as such. Surely you're aware that the length of the block doesn't come into it; that Jimbo Wales' use of his tools isn't common or garden "admin misbehaviour", regardless of when it took place; that there is a pattern of egregious misbehaviour (see examples at User talk:Bishonen/block discussion); and that this is a GodKing we're talking about. Could I have a more responsive reply, please? I can't believe that Coren's is the sum of the committee's views on my query. Bishonen | talk 14:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC).
(Please note that I am currently on break from the Committee as it regards new matters and that this is only an individual statement.) I cannot posit what the overall Committee response to a request from you would be, but I can offer some general observations relevant to your questions. Jimbo Wales has made it clear that ArbCom has the authority to overturn his decisions and that he would respect such a decision. The majority of the Committee is extremely reluctant or unwilling to open a case without a normal request for arbitration. The involvement of Jimbo Wales has little to no bearing on the latter point, which seems to have been embraced as a general principle. It is based on a number of factors, including the abitration policy (particularly point 6) and previous problems/drama with cases initiated (directly or indirectly) by the Committee and/or arbitrators. I hope this helps clarify the matter. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know. --Vassyana (talk) 01:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- Doesn't really make the matter completely clear to me, but thanks, Vassyana. You mention Jimbo Wales' yielding authority to the committee to overturn his decisions. What worries me about that is, firstly, this section of WP:JIMBO, according to which Mr Wales has embraced several mutually contradictory principles for such an authority (or embraced several principles "in tension" with each other, as the page more diplomatically puts it). Secondly, there can't be any question here of the arbcom "overturning" any decisions on my account; a block cannot be overturned once it has expired. Why, then, you might ask, don't I simply let it go? That's something I would explain in my request for arbitration, if I ever manage to formulate one. But I'll mention an incident I consider outrageous, that I think deserves an admonishment at the least: the way Mr Wales' referred to me, by obvious implication, as a "toxic personality". See Raul654's statement here, as well as those of many other people. That's no way for a godking to behave, and not something his subjects should be expected to put up with.
- Since you kindly ask, Vassyana, I do have another question: can I request arbitration of one action (in this case, of Jimbo's block of me and attendant conduct towards me, our mediation, etc, which I feel I know about and understand), or would I have to address the entire body of his admin actions (which I have limited knowledge of)? Recollect that I'm not requesting desysopping. There might indeed be reason to consider desysopping, especially for some bad blocks, but I don't have enough information for an overview of those. Would that be all right? Bishonen | talk 18:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC).
- I've been pondering about the best way forward to get resolution of the situation between you and Jimbo. The talking it out idea didn't work as well as I hoped that it would. But since talking to each other is the first step in any dispute resolution then it was needed. The next step could be letting it rest for now with both you going on your way. Another option would some type of mediation between the two of you. Another option would be a RFC started where Jimbo and you could get feedback. Since more than you have talked to him about it, then it would be certifiable in my opinion. An arbitration case seems premature. We do take them sooner for admins but not usually for a single short block. I know that there was more to it than the block. As a rule we don't do statements like you suggest for something like this situation. And it really is outside the range of what we would look at for a case. Those are your options as I see them now. I exchanged a few emails with Jimbo in mid June when you alerted me to your concerns. I'll talk to him again informally if you like. I really do care that you and him are having this dispute. I want to fix it if I can. FloNight♥♥♥ 23:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- With respect, Flo, I don't think pondering and caring is going to do it. I see that those arbs who have responded to me here insist on speaking of Jimbo as merely "an admin", and his block as a common or garden "short block."
- If you feel attention should be given to what you feel is admin misbehavior... (Coren)
- We pretty much decline to intervene in short blocks... (Coren)
- We do take them sooner for admins but not usually for a single short block. (FloNight)
- Is that how you speak of Jimbo amongst yourselves? And have you noticed how he speaks of himself? (Hint: like a GodKing.) Are you aware of the substantial section of the community which falls down and kisses the hem of his garment (and spits at me) when he makes a royal pronouncement about my personality? Jimbo should be careful with his pronouncements, his attacks, his casting-out of editors into outer darkness, for it affects their standing in the community beyond what he seems to be aware of. (Unawareness is the charitable interpretation—the AGF version.) Therefore, it seems obvious enough that your proposal for an RfC ("where Jimbo and I could get feedback", forsooth) would amount to the village stocks for me. Or would you yourself fancy the type of "feedback" supplied by the users I give diffs for above? Think about it. And is protesting against "what I feel is admin misbehaviour" all I'm doing by appealing to the arbcom here?
- As for the talking-to-each-other thing Jimbo and I have done, I found it disappointing. Apparently you did, too, Flo. Mediation sounds only too much like more of the same, so I would have small hopes for that. Very small. But I suppose I'd be (groan) willing to try (weariness), considering that the committee clearly so very much prefers not to touch my problem with a long pole.
- I'm quite disillusioned with the arbcom's disinclination to deal with this matter. I only seem to get any reaction from them when I make a fuss, as I'm doing now. And then it's a "perish-the-thought" reaction. If there are any arbitrators out there who feel differently, I wish they'd speak up; but it's not looking much like it. (Newyorkbrad? My question was originally addressed to you. See your page.) Bishonen | talk 10:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC).
I have been thinking about this a bit. One aspect which might be worth discussing at an RfC, and hopefully someone having a look at the history of the concept of 'involved', is the concept of 'involved' - in a case where editor A and editor B are clearly friends, and admin C is known to have an issue with editor B, but then blocks editor A in a borderline case. Similarly with points of view etc. For instance, I am an inclusionist, and as such I would not block a deleletion-minded editor on pronciple unless it was a blindingly obvious totally unambiguous reason to do so - however, when I expressed this elsewhere, it appeared my criteria for 'involved' were broader (or stricter or whatever) than other admins. In general, this might be a good thing to nut out, unless done so elsewhere (????). Of course, it is better not to use specific examples in RfCs, as this not only polarises opinion but distorts it as well as editors will subconsciously associate a specific action takne against a specific editor (which they may disagree with), whereas they might have actually been in favour of the principle or vice versa). Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Shortest. Wikibreak. Ever.
Given the recent attritions to the Committee, I felt it wiser to cut short what I had intended to be a considerably longer break away from the Wiki and am returning to duty. I very much empathize with my colleagues frustrations at having our hands tied most of the time combined with the certainty that no matter what the committee does (or does not do) there will always be a number of editors willing to jump at the opportunity to attack the committee and its volunteers with surprising bile and viciousness.
While none of us signed up under the impression that we would be loved and paraded, it does tend to affect one's morale over time no matter how much we attempt to harden ourselves to this inevitable reality. Nevertheless, I don't believe that a committee that has whittled down to less than a dozen members is healthy.
Thank you to all of you who offered words of support and wishes for my return during my (short) break. — Coren 12:50, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- Welcome back! FloNight♥♥♥ 12:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- In response to Coren's comment above, I profess my love for the Arbitration Committee, and I am totally willing to parade this fact on my user page if ArbCom members can provide a suitable userbox. Wikipedians should be aware that ArbCom is very important for the project, and there really aren't any upsides to being a member of the committee. You guys deserve more credit than you get, and I hope Kirill and Rlevse can be coaxed back in. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- And I'd like to add that I think this ArbCom as a whole has been doing a better job than any previous ArbCom. You've been taking on tough issues, without letting them just fester for months, and bringing them to conclusions that -- while necessarily falling short of most people's idea of a perfect outcome -- are not too bad. That, I recognize, is tough to do. rspεεr (talk) 00:37, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- In response to Coren's comment above, I profess my love for the Arbitration Committee, and I am totally willing to parade this fact on my user page if ArbCom members can provide a suitable userbox. Wikipedians should be aware that ArbCom is very important for the project, and there really aren't any upsides to being a member of the committee. You guys deserve more credit than you get, and I hope Kirill and Rlevse can be coaxed back in. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- I am very glad that you're back, Coren! :) — Aitias // discussion 14:24, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Are any other members of the committee planning to flip their shit in the near term, and have any other members of the committee been undermining the committee's already questionable authority and judgement? Hiberniantears (talk) 21:38, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- Is that helpful? Do you expect an answer to your question? Has any ArbCom member asked you about your shit before? -- FayssalF - 22:48, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- Well, they haven't answered any other question I've ever asked them, so what the heck, right? Well, with the notable exception of your response to my last. Hiberniantears (talk) 23:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
- Which questions they haven't answered, Hiberniantears? Are you referring to Arbs' resignations or what? -- FayssalF - 15:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- I was. Then you snarkily asked if I expected an answer to my snarky-though-legitimate question. In any event, I didn't ask about your shit, I asked if you were planning to flip your shit. If you aren't, then you have nothing to be frustrated about. As for my question, it strikes me that ArbCom has been a dramatic train wreck over the past few weeks (understatement, I know), and more than a few admins would like to know if we should expect any additional surprises in the near future. A simple "We're sorry things have been a mess over here, but those of us left, and those of us who left and then came back anyway, would like to assure the community that we will start behaving in a more responsible fashion" would do. I'm not convinced this is such a disrespectful request given the fact that we all have to abide by the decisions you make. Yes or no, are there any further shennanigans we should be expecting/aware of? Hiberniantears (talk) 00:02, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- Hopefully not. We (those of us left) had considered a statement on the matter, but then realised we had other things that needed attention, and set a short-term priority list that got internal co-ordination re-established (Roger agreed to step up and do the co-ordination, and we are chipping in to help where we can), and focused on getting the one existing case closed and dealing with the backlog at RFAR. The one item left at RFAR (case requests) I've just asked the clerks (at their noticeboard) to archive. The backlogs at requests for clarifications and amendments is nothing new, but also needs dealing with. An arbitrator has volunteered to take on the new case that just opened (we are waiting for a target date to be set). The items on the agenda are slipping a bit again, but the current top item (the review of what we have done this past six months) is nearly ready (I've been working on that). A summary (in prelude to the full report) should be out very soon - I just need to get my colleagues to approve it. It will be announced on the noticeboard along with any other notices needed as we continue to carry on with the normal business of arbitration (several ban appeals are being dealt with in the background as well). Carcharoth (talk) 06:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- Do you want a cookie? Here. I respect all the hard work, not being paid and all that, and being the subject of the slings and arrows. But as I just commented on the noticeboard, we all get accusations. It's not unique to Arbcom. How do you think we regular editors deal with it when someone says mean things? Without tools or status we have no choice. We either quit the project or let it pass. If I give up in exasperation because people say bad things about me, and because there's a real world job, would anyone lament my absence? I don't think so. Contribution has to be self-motivated and self-rewarded. Arbcom members should strive to be more philosophical than the general membership here, not less, when confronted with accusations. Wikidemon (talk) 08:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- Hopefully not. We (those of us left) had considered a statement on the matter, but then realised we had other things that needed attention, and set a short-term priority list that got internal co-ordination re-established (Roger agreed to step up and do the co-ordination, and we are chipping in to help where we can), and focused on getting the one existing case closed and dealing with the backlog at RFAR. The one item left at RFAR (case requests) I've just asked the clerks (at their noticeboard) to archive. The backlogs at requests for clarifications and amendments is nothing new, but also needs dealing with. An arbitrator has volunteered to take on the new case that just opened (we are waiting for a target date to be set). The items on the agenda are slipping a bit again, but the current top item (the review of what we have done this past six months) is nearly ready (I've been working on that). A summary (in prelude to the full report) should be out very soon - I just need to get my colleagues to approve it. It will be announced on the noticeboard along with any other notices needed as we continue to carry on with the normal business of arbitration (several ban appeals are being dealt with in the background as well). Carcharoth (talk) 06:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- I was. Then you snarkily asked if I expected an answer to my snarky-though-legitimate question. In any event, I didn't ask about your shit, I asked if you were planning to flip your shit. If you aren't, then you have nothing to be frustrated about. As for my question, it strikes me that ArbCom has been a dramatic train wreck over the past few weeks (understatement, I know), and more than a few admins would like to know if we should expect any additional surprises in the near future. A simple "We're sorry things have been a mess over here, but those of us left, and those of us who left and then came back anyway, would like to assure the community that we will start behaving in a more responsible fashion" would do. I'm not convinced this is such a disrespectful request given the fact that we all have to abide by the decisions you make. Yes or no, are there any further shennanigans we should be expecting/aware of? Hiberniantears (talk) 00:02, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- Which questions they haven't answered, Hiberniantears? Are you referring to Arbs' resignations or what? -- FayssalF - 15:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- Well, they haven't answered any other question I've ever asked them, so what the heck, right? Well, with the notable exception of your response to my last. Hiberniantears (talk) 23:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Blanking Arb Comm election pages
I former candidate for the Arbitration Committee has asked me to blank (not delete) pages and page sections related to her candidacy. Are there objections to my doing so? As far as I can tell, it's never been done before, but we do semi-routinely blank RFAs at the subject request (whether or not the user is leaving Misplaced Pages, which this user has), and this seems to me to be comparable. Steve Smith (talk) (formerly Sarcasticidealist) 01:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- I see no problem with a courtesy blank.--Tznkai (talk) 01:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- I rarely favor courtesy blanking. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
- I don't see a problem with blanking project pages that are primarily about a person who has left. I would be more cautious about blanking individual sections of pages; but if there were parts of the section which were causing harm and were no longer of any use, I might leave the section title in place but remove the content of the section - this allows searches to pick up the section name. I've not had time to find and review the pages in question. John Vandenberg 05:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Update
Since this is not an official notice, I think this is the best place to put it, but I wanted to point people to this post I made in a section above, which updates things somewhat after recent events. Just to lay out what the response has been so far to the resignations and to indicate that other arbitration business is still proceeding much as normal. Carcharoth (talk) 06:14, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
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