| Revision as of 21:07, 20 July 2009 view sourceNYScholar (talk | contribs)41,511 editsm →Speaking for myself again← Previous edit | Revision as of 21:43, 20 July 2009 view source Black Kite (talk | contribs)Administrators85,135 edits redirect - banned user only using this page to wikilawyer and attack othersNext edit → | ||
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| == Further explanation (for those who need it) == | |||
| The closing administrator and others claim erroneously that there was a "consensus" of the Misplaced Pages "community" ] in "community banning" me from editing Misplaced Pages. There has not been. Please see the previous requests. The claims by 2 administrators so far who refused to unblock me that the reasons given are "confusing" or "still somewhat confusing" may be convenient for them to make but those claims are not accurate, in my view. There is continual discussion about "NYScholar" in which administrators and others are making further false claims and providing no "diffs." to support them throughout the talk page of ]. There is edit warring among various administrators and editors ongoing in ] in what appear to be various attempts to rationalize a faulty banning of me throughout retroactive changes to that policy page. The page needs to be protected as it existed on July 1, 2009 and marked with an appropriate template that indicates that ''the policy is disputed''. I understand that some editors think that my comments are longer than they would like them to be. But, as any neutral observer will see from what has been and is going on relating to this "community ban", the situation is complicated by the failure of so many people to follow ], ], and general ]. Explaining takes effort and words. I am trying to be as concise as possible given the complexities of this situation. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Lack of diffs. both throughout the ANI leading to my "community ban" and throughout later discussions of it == | |||
| Most egregiously, the administrator ], who was engaged in a dispute with me about a matter that was resolved ''years ago'', continues to ''distort the contexts of that dispute'', making ''false statements about it and me'' and ''providing no differences to support her false statements''. See her posts in ]; she is engaged in "bashing" me while I am "banned"; . The entire matter that she purports to refer to is archived in my own talk page archive. It was ''resolved to the satisfaction of another user on whose behalf she commented on my talk page at the time''. (She asked me to use e-mail then, and I told her that I do not use e-mail with or with relation to Misplaced Pages.) She continued after that to distort the situation. All of the discussion between me and Sarah is archived in my own talk page archives, with links to relatead discussions. I have never used and still do not use use e-mail correspondence with/relating to Misplaced Pages. The matters that I discussed previously with Sarah and others is a matter of Misplaced Pages public record.(cont.) | |||
| == Ongoing and gratuitous bashing of me since the "community ban" == | |||
| Contrary to ]'s false statements (with no diffs.) in her past comments in ANIs and in most recent lengthy and undocumented comments about me (with no diffs.) in ] attempting to rationalize her reverts to ], in which she claims that "in SlimVirgin's case, it was a dispute from three years ago when NYScholar was socking" . (cont.) | |||
| That is a totally irresponsible statement (as is the rest of her sentence following it): '''NOTE WELL: I did not and do not use "sock puppets" in Misplaced Pages'''. '''I have no idea what she thinks that she is referring to'''. (cont.) | |||
| :] at the time (approx. 3 years ago). I provide that example as an instance of an administrator holding a grudge about a completely-good faith editing content dispute that she has been unable to transcend and is hardly neutral or "objective" or "uninvolved" about (even still). Same thing applies to Sarah's continual dredging up out of context her imprecise memories of past events, without posting "diffs." and keeping a sense of full contexts. --] (]) 01:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC)] | |||
| ] is using me as a bashing object and casting aspersions against me while apparently attempting to counter opposition to her own positions in reverting edits to ]. (cont.) | |||
| My current concern is that people reading those false statements that she is making about me may think that they are facts. But they are not facts. They are lies. As in past ANIs, where ] has repeatedly returned to make negative statements about me, she presents no diffs. to document those statements, relies on unreliable memories, and takes matters out of their original contexts. The actual contexts are fully documented already in my own archived talk pages. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) ] (]) 00:32, 20 July 2009 (UTC)] | |||
| This continual "bashing" of a user who is not able to respond on that talk page due to this block is patently against ]. I believe that Sarah and the other administrators who are engaging in such activities in violation of ] should be sanctioned and their administrative "powers" (such as they are) removed. They themselves do not follow the most basic policies and guidelines presented in ]. They harbor personal grudges, engage in personal vendettas, and they should be removed of their administrative duties and "powers" (such as they are). Please see ]. They have facilitated what was initially an edit war begun by ], shortly after that user re-entered Misplaced Pages, pertaining to ], centering on the proper and consistent use of ] in articles pertaining to literary subjects, and, accepting Jezhotwells' focusing on a contributor instead of on content and format, have magnified and blown it out of proportions into a "banning" discussion. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) (updated. --] (]) 00:32, 20 July 2009 (UTC)] | |||
| :The problem when you accuse people of telling "lies" is there's zero room to assume that you're abiding by the ] policy. If you were trying to assume good faith, you'd say that I've misunderstood things or even that I've said something that's not correct but "lie" by definition infers that I'm deliberately saying things that aren't true, and with that there's no room for AGF whatsoever. And right there is the key problem with your editing - you always assume others are acting in bad faith and with ulterior motives. You would do better to actually assume the other party is operating in good faith, explain why they're mistaken and let them refactor their comments. Most people here ''will'' do that if they're calmly and respectfully shown they've made a mistake, but most editors won't bother when you insult them. Secondly, you're accusing me of lying about socking? So do you contest the claim that you were {{User|Remain}} or {{User|Gentility}} or that you were blocked (not under those two accounts) prior to using this NYScholar account and that an article's talk page had to be protected because of your very disruptive and abusive editing, including some nasty attacks on SlimVirgin, which I referred to in my comment on the ]? I can certainly provide diffs if you wish me to, but I honestly didn't think you'd appreciate me doing that. Perhaps you'd rather call it "use of alternate accounts"? Because it's so long ago, I'd be happy to refactor "sock" to "alternate accounts" if you wish (and to be honest, I wouldn't even bother bringing it up as it was a long time ago, except for Abd's continual efforts to discount other's comments), but you ''were'' using other accounts on articles in which you were involved in very angry and nasty disputes without self-identifying and that is generally called "socking". I, too, wish you would open an email account for use on Misplaced Pages as there is some information I would very much like to pass on to you but am unable to do so in this public forum. FYI I was recently emailed by someone who claims to know you away from here and they pointed out aspects of your prior history, your use of these other accounts (including, but apparently not limited to, Remain and Gentility) as well as some other information which would raise possible flags with your articles if true. But I obviously can't say much further than that here in public. I appreciate your reasons for not wanting to use email but you have to understand that it does make things very difficult for others to communicate with you. I'm not asking you to register an email account, so no need to get upset, I'm just saying that your refusal to do so makes it difficult, as others have told you. Please understand there is usually a reason behind what others on Misplaced Pages do and say and if someone says something and you don't understand the reason for it, or you don't think it's right, you'd do better to ask them why they're saying it than to assume bad faith and accuse them of telling lies. I honestly don't think there's much hope of you being unblocked or unbanned while you continue assuming bad faith of others. Thanks. ] 04:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :I was very new to editing Misplaced Pages in 2005 (over 4 years ago) and not aware at that time that there was such a thing as a "sock puppet" in Misplaced Pages or any policy against such things. I had signalled on some project page or administrative area at the time that I was attempting to correct typographical errors in an article. If one examines all the edits in the "contributions" link to the identities linked, one will see that they are typographical and format corrections that I was making for the improvement of those articles. I do not remember the circumstances entirely, but the nature of the edits should be clear from the editing summaries on the article page. I recall signalling that I was trying to correct errors and explaining the reason for making the changes. I had a different computer at the time and was editing from a different IP address and a different internet provider. My editing as "NYScholar" began on June 30, 2005 (see edit history). I recall identifying myself as "NYScholar" to administrators in making the edits. I did not understand at the time the concept of "sock puppets" and there was no intentional attempt to contravene ]. There was nothing nefarious or untoward in the edits that I made (typographical and format corrections to one article), I signalled to administrators that I was making them. Sarah's claim that SlimVirgin was objecting to my "socking" as Sarah states in ] is not the matter discussed in my archived talk pages as NYScholar. The user being "community banned" is "NYScholar". Sarah herself changed her names in her editing history throughout Misplaced Pages, just as ] (formerly ]) has done more recently. There is nothing nefarious in their doing so either. But the changes of screen names can be confusing to others. At the time I made those typographical and format contributions (listed if one clicks on "contributions"), I did not fully understand the concept of "blocking" either. If one wants to examine the nature of the editing content dispute that SlimVirgin was actually referring to in the recent ANI about me (topic bans/community ban proposals) that ] (formerly ] opened, in which she refers to my adding templates on an article (]), one needs to look at the archived pages of NYScholar (this identity--the one that is blocked). The references to "nastiness" etc. have a context and the full context is in my archived talk pages. That is where the discussions reside. Sarah's allusions in ] to SlimVirgin's disputes with me are misleading and gratuitous in my view. I think that both she and SlimVirgin have posted enough words about me that are archived, and that it is not necessary for Sarah (or SlimVirgin) to continue to bash me while I am blocked. Sarah's continuing to do so in ] is both unnecessary and contrary to ] and ] as well as contrary to ]. (cont.) | |||
| I would greatly appreciate it if she would stop doing so there and here and if she would not keep posting these comments about me. I think that she needs to ''recuse'' herself from discussing my case, as she has been personally involved in it and refuses to see the nature of her personal involvement as a stumbling block to neutrality or objectivity. The record of my editing stands for itself. It does not need continual re-interpretation by Sarah and other previously-involved administrators. What is needed is impartial neutral administrators to take a look at the multiple violations of ] that occur in WP:ANI. --] (]) 13:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :If you want me to stop posting here, and I will gladly do so, you need to stop making false accusations about me and I won't then feel the need to come here to correct you - remember, I only came here when you started talking about me, again. Prior to that I haven't posted here for ages. So it's really quite simple, if you want me to stay away from your page, stop talking about me and especially stop making false accusations about me. Also please note that I did not say that SlimVirgin objected to your socking. What I said was that at the time of the run in with SlimVirgin, you were using socks (or alternate accounts) and as far as I can see that is true. I also don't believe you told others that you were those previous users, in fact, when other editors asked you about it you repeatedly denied it. (since you like diffs so much, see for example). But look, I don't really care what happened 3 years ago and as I said above, I only raised it because of Abd's claims about SlimVirgin. I didn't even know about it myelf until recently when I received a series of emails about you which pointed out your use of these accounts as well as other matters. Please be aware that there have been allegations that your editing of the Pinter articles involves a not insignificant Conflict of Interest. If you are ever to be unblocked or unbanned, that is going to have to be addressed and resolved if you are to edit Pinter articles again. ] 14:41, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| You should not be bashing and repeating unsubstantiated hearsay about a blocked user. There is no ] in my editing Pinter articles. Among multiple other specialties, I am a scholar of Pinter's work and criticism about it and knowledgable about these subjects. Being an expert on a subject of an article or articles in Misplaced Pages and also an expert researcher makes one a knowledgable editor. Such expertise is in no manner a "conflict of interest." The person who claimed (Viriditas) that later apologized in my now-archived talk space. Viriditas had thought that I worked for the ], which I do not. More recently, Viriditas has referred to me as a "special needs" (?) editor, which I am also not, if that means that I have some kind of physical or mental disability. I do not have any such disability. --] (]) 14:51, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 20:52, 20 July 2009 (UTC)] | |||
| Here is the request from the page protection page explaining the situation from 2006: Scroll down to the part pertaining to the request pertaining to the article on ]. It was an alert to administrators. The other "contributions" which related to that situation are from the same finite period, again over 3 years ago. If one wants to consult the full editing history of each of those edits, one is free to do so. Calling that "socking" in a pejorative reference to my editing in ] in the recent ANI is extremely misleading and, in my view, it amounts to bashing of a blocked editor. --] (]) 14:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Again that is false. I did not refer to your use of other accounts at the ANI discussion. I didn't even know about it myself until a few days ago when I received the above mentioned emails. Kindly be more careful with your "factual" claims. ] 16:09, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| '''I clearly state above that you made the gratuitous pejorative comments about "NYScholar" "socking" in relation to SlimVirgin's comments in the recent ANI in your comments (linked above) in ]. Kindly cease and desist.''' Thank you. --] (]) 20:4, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Optional citation styles in ] via ] == | |||
| ] (via ]) allows the use of multiple kinds of citation formats in Misplaced Pages as long as they are consistent. The failure of users who do not know the citation format to perceive its consistency is at the heart of the matter of that dispute. The matter is archived in ] and in my own talk page archives and the talk pages of multiple places to which ] attempted to find support for his/her position, despite the failure to find it in an RfC posted on ], which Jezhotwells archived in the midst of the then-ongoing ANI relating to the article. That user has now added an archiving bot to the talk page of Harold Pinter. Doing so was rejected earlier. If any "ownership" issues are clear from the recent editing history of ], those issues relate to ], ], ], and that coterie of editors who have attempted to remove the main contributor of content and sources from editing the article (me). Their editing of the article has not led to an improvement of that article. It has led to mistakes in both content and format. The current version of ] now contains multiple errors of content and format which I am unable to correct. I warn readers about it. It is being edited by people who are not experts on Harold Pinter and who are not familiar with the sources that they are taking from my previous work on it. They have made serious mistakes that they do not have the knowledge or apparently the interest in correcting. (See below.) --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == The archive bot == | |||
| Clearly identifying the edit in an edit summary, I recently added an archive page 28 to my talk page archives for the purpose of the automatic archiving bot (I had to use my own anon IP address to do so). But the archive bot does not seem to be functioning correctly, as it did not archive the material on this talk page. After another editor removed the adoption template at the top of the page, it ceased functioning, though I have tried a number of times to restore the codes. I tried adding archive page 28 to my talk page archives (though I had to do so using my anon. IP address), but doing so has not made it work again. Perhaps someone else can get it to work so that I do not have to keep trying (apparently without luck) to fix it. It should be archiving as the message states, 48 hours (2 days) duration, beginning with archive page 28. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Mentorship history == | |||
| Despite the current listing of me as ]'s "current" "adoptee" on her own user subpage, ], she is not currently my mentor. Shell explicitly resigned from mentoring me in March 2009. (See my archived talk page 25 for the discussion.) Nevertheless, she continues to list me as her adoptee on her user page. I am not her adoptee. | |||
| Shell had replaced ], who had offered to mentor me as a result of my being required to have a mentor as a result of an ANI which I had initiated protesting uncivil remarks made about me by ] (who is not currently active in Misplaced Pages and who did not reply to the attempt by ] (formerly ]) to have him add to the discussion in the more recent ANI). That ANI was full of unsubstantiated allegations relating to the editing of ]. ] changed the heading of the ANI that I had filed to focus it on me--that is, in part, how she is involved in the "underlying dispute" relating to the community ban discussion in the more recent ANI. As I stated way back then, she was posting (what I considered and still consider) false allegations about me without posting "diffs." to document them throughout the earlier ANI as well; she continued to do that in the recent ANI, and she is, even after my "community banning" continuing to do that now. These breaches of ] are going ''unchecked''. | |||
| Late in August 2008, Ecoleetage informed me on my talk page that he had decided to end his mentorship of me because he felt that I was receiving praise from others for my editing and that, on the basis of that, he did not think I needed to be mentored further. Before posting that decision on my talk page, he did not consult me and apparently he did not consult or inform ] (the closing administrator in the ANI leading to his adoption of me). Ecoleetage had been my mentor for a few weeks, which I had referred to in voluntarily contributing a comment in his RfA as (what I saw then as a relatively) "brief" time. | |||
| After I posted my comment in totally good faith in his RfA, I became the subject of an ANI called "NYScholar revisited" filed by ], in which Orderinchaos made what both Ecoleetage and I and others found to be ''outrageous'' and totally-unsubstantiated false allegations of "collusion" between Ecoleetage and me: NOTE WELL: '''There was no collusion of any kind about anything between Ecoleetage and me''', contrary to Orderinchaos' false allegations. (All of my communications with Ecoleetage on my talk page are archived in my talk page archives; I did not and do not use e-mail with Misplaced Pages or with or relating to Misplaced Pages. All my comments are publicly posted.) (cont.) | |||
| Those commenting in that ANI (some of the same ones as in the previous ANI and in the more recent one), posted no "diffs." to support their false allegations. Nevertheless, the result was the requirement that I be mentored. Again I immediately and without any hesitation agreed to that (despite further false allegations by ] that I had not done so--the record in my own talk page archives clearly disproves that). ''I contacted'' Shell Kinney and asked her if she would be my mentor, and she agreed to do so. From that time until the most recent ANI, I had no blocks of any kind. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Background == | |||
| Beginning on December 25, 2008, the day that Harold Pinter's death was announced publicly, I began encountering ] while I was trying to keep ] free from vandalism and then also up to date. Jezhotwells engaged in continual complaining and edit warring over the format of source citations, which was a format listed in its templated style sheet. The MLA style format used was both permitted then and it is still permitted by ]. (cont.) | |||
| I brought the multiple problems that I was encountering from Jezhotwells to the attention of Shell. But at times, without my realizing it, Shell was not active in Misplaced Pages. and at times I was not getting replies to my requests for assistance. (Later, I found a notice at the top of her talk page that I hadn't noticed earlier because I was just adding comments to the bottom of her talk page.) When she was active in Misplaced Pages during that time period, she did not read all of my comments because she lost patience with them and said that they were too long. Nevertheless, I had explained the situation in a detailed manner and as clearly as I could to her and in responding to her. The fact that she refused to read all of my explanations does not mean that the explanations were not worth reading. They were and they are worth reading. Shell dismissed what I still insist were my entirely good-faith attempts to respond to her comments. Anything that I said was dismissed as saying too much. She claimed then that I was "blaming" her for things. I was not doing so. In retrospect, it appears to me that she was being highly defensive and over-reacting to what were simply intended to be rational explanations on my part. I had no intention to "blame" her then, and I do not "blame" her now for what happened leading to her decision not to be my mentor anymore. As I said then and later (in the ANI), where she stated that I in effect "turn her stomach" and then called into question that I am an academic scholar and alleged (falsely) that I am a student: I am not a student; I am a trained academic scholar with a Ph.D. and, among several specialties in cognate fields, a specialist on Harold Pinter. I have served the academic profession of English studies, drama, theater, and related subjects for over 35 years after the earning of my Ph.D. My user boxes (see above) are all accurate. Those false allegations are violations of ]. (All of our prior discussion is still archived in my talk archive and some of our communications may be found in Shell's talk archive; Jezhotwells did not archive all of my comments and deleted some of them from his/her talk pages.) --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :While I personally believe you are telling the truth about your identity and your academic background, unless you're willing to prove your identity and qualifications, referring to them is pointless and just gives others a bad impression. On Misplaced Pages, we evaluate a user based entirely on the quality of their edits and whether they're an academic with a collection of PhDs or a high school student is just not relevant for editing purposes. Many, possibly most, of the people you have had problems with have academic qualifications and I know some also have Phds but none repeatedly refer to them as you do. I would suggest that you simply stop talking about your PhD and your job unless you're willing to prove it. Also, if you were having problems contacting your mentor for advice or assistance, the appropriate action would have been to post a request for an admin to help you or to request a new mentor. It's not really good enough to turn around once you get in trouble and try to use Shell as an excuse. I read the mentoring and I believe she did her best to help you but was unable to get through to you that you need stop several problematic behaviours, including assuming bad faith when other editors don't agree with you, which is still a problem to this day. ] 06:06, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :There is no requirement that I identify myself by my real name or "prove" my real-life identity. I use a screen name in Misplaced Pages for purposes of personal privacy. The provision of sources in many, many articles throughout Misplaced Pages that I have contributed to for over 4 years as "NYScholar" in my attempts to improve the documentation of articles are indications of my professional expertise. I stand by these edits. (cont.) | |||
| I am very tired of the personal and professional aspersions cast on me by Sarah and Shell and others. I am not "continually talking about my PhD" etc; but when administrators like Shell ''falsely'' state that I am a "student" in direct contradiction of my userboxes and those comments are referred to by others such as Abd as if they might have any value, these other editors are impugning good faith userboxes and my responses to questions that others have asked me about my background as a "scholar", which I have responded to in good faith (see my archived talk pages). My pointing out ''their'' violations of ] is in no way a violation of the policy ]. That itself is part of the policy. They should simply stop attacking me personally and professionally in various talk pages and on this talk page. It is more humiliating for them than it is for me when they continue to do so because it shows how low they are willing to stoop to attempt to prove their false points. Their continual misstatements about me does not make them any more true. They are still lies. --] (]) 13:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Of course there's no requirement you prove your identity. But you're the one who keeps providing this information and going on about it, pointing out who you are IRL. But no one cares about it. As I tried to explain to you above, we don't care who you are, we just care what you do when you click the "edit" and "save page" buttons. So if you don't intend proving your identity, there's no reason to say anything about it at all and all it does is give the impression you're trying to claim higher standing over the other editors and exert ownership of those articles. If that's not what you're trying to do then I would suggest there's nothing to be gained from continuing to talk about your real world identity. If people don't believe you, then who cares? You're not going to convince them by continuing to go on about it. And Misplaced Pages doesn't confer special privileges on claimed experts so there's really nothing to be gained by you continuing to point out your qualifications. If you're trying to protect your privacy, as you claim, you should probably think twice about using IPs to edit and revealing so much information about your personal history anyway. Again, your use of "lies" is most unfortunate if you wish to convey that you're assuming good faith of others. And your accusation against me is also unfortunate and untrue. I'm simply telling you the fact that how Misplaced Pages judges edits by their quality and not on the name or the pieces of paper belonging to the person who made them. I said I believe what you've claimed but that it's not relevant for Misplaced Pages. I am not casting aspersions on you. Please cease your untrue accusations against me. In fact, I'd be most grateful if you would simply stop talking about me. ] 15:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| My repeated good faith attempts to try to resolve the problems caused by the entry of ] in ] beginning on December 25, 2008 ''disprove'' the false statements that are being made about my editing or my "editing style" throughout the more recent ANI and that various involved users (including administrators like ] and ]) continue to be making about me unnecessarily and without "diffs." in ]. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| '''No Misplaced Pages editor should be subjected to the kind of ''unfair treatment'' that I am being subjected to in Misplaced Pages.''' There is no single prescribed "editing style" in Misplaced Pages. What are prescribed are good faith attempts to follow ], which I was attempting to follow in good faith. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| What has been and is going on following the ANI "topic ban" and then "commmunity ban" "proposals" posted initially by ] (formerly ]) is yet another ''disgrace to Misplaced Pages'', in my own view and that of other educated editors. | |||
| The outcome (my "community banning") ''discourages any academically credentialed scholar such as myself from contributing his or her own time to attempting to improve the content and documentation ("sourcing") of Misplaced Pages''. The of ], on which I worked for over four years ''in good faith'' (]) prior to this "banning" now contains multiple errors of content and format. (The correct information appears in (on which I worked last) and also in my last .) I am warning Misplaced Pages readers about the current version of ]. It is being edited by people who are not experts on Harold Pinter and who are not familiar with the sources that they have attempted to re-construct from my previous properly documented work on it. They have made serious mistakes that they do not have the knowledge or apparently the interest to correct. They have removed quotation marks from whole quoted sentences and phrases, sometimes leaving an open quotation mark and no closing quotation mark, for example. They have altered previously neutral presentations of statements documented properly by sources to biased statements using their own opinions (and thus ]); those statements are ''not'' supported in actuality by the sources, which they have moved around. They may eventually submit the article for a "featured article review"; it might pass that review if the reviewers are no more knowledgable about Harold Pinter and the sources than they are. Doing so will not "improve" Misplaced Pages. It is a "travesty": a word used by editors like ] (see also Keeper's Barnstar on my [[User:NYScholar/Barnstars| | |||
| Barnstars]] page) in the ANI filed by ]. Ecoleetage cited Keeper's barnstar positive comments in explaining why he had decided to end his mentorship of me when commenting in the ANI filed by Orderinchaos. Orderinchaos (as is ThuranX) is an "involved" editor in the "underlying dispute" relating to the "community banning" of me. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Request for a full investigation of my "community banning" == | |||
| I respectfully request that ''totally uninvolved administrators'' (multiple ones) who may have accepted arguments for my "community banning" review it ''much more carefully''. The banning of me (either from editing the article on ] or from editing any other part of Misplaced Pages) is not based on any "banable" offense that I know of. Prior to this "community banning", I had not been "blocked" for any "blockable offense" for over 10 months. The only comments being made against me were initiated by ] in support of his/her edit warring about a citation style which had prevailed in ] from long before October 2007, when it passed a "good article review" with that citation style. It continued to have the same prevailing citation style until Jezhotwell's entry into editing the article;. At one point, Jezhotwells changed the format of citations to the 3rd edition of '']'' from the 2nd edition but introduced multiple errors in formatting. Having already attempted many times to accommodate Jezhotwells' continual complaints and to incorporate live links in reference citations for the convenience of Misplaced Pages readers, I corrected Jezhotwells' multiple formatting errors and updated the citation style consistently to the 3rd edition, which went into effect in the MLA's own publications in early 2009. ]. The alphabetizing of its long list of asterisked items and their formatting are currently incorrect. ] and in my sandbox versions of the article and the bibliography.] (updated. --] (]) 02:38, 20 July 2009 (UTC)) | |||
| == Further information: Speaking for myself == | |||
| Moreover, ''I did not disrupt Misplaced Pages or the editing of the article on ]''; I spent many, many hours attempting to ''improve'' it and thus to ''improve'' Misplaced Pages. Beginning on December 25, 2008, it was actually ] who was disrupting the editing of ], not I. (See the editing history of that article and its now-archived talk pages.) (updated. --] (]) 02:42, 20 July 2009 (UTC)) (cont.) | |||
| There are no "diffs." supplied by those commenting in the ANI to substantiate the false allegations that I was "disruptive" at the time that I became the subject of Steve Smith and Ssilvers' "topic ban" and then "community ban" proposals. After I pointed out problems in the fair-use rationales for 2 images, other editors adjusted the image file pages to incorporate more correct information that I supplied. (cont.) | |||
| The action started by ] (formerly ]) when he posted his intention to propose topic bans against me and then initiated a community ban against me based on his claims that I do not understand U.S. copyright law's fair use is based on his opinion without actual diffs. He omitted my explicit references to the false application of specific fair use critera to which I objected that I had posted on his own talk page. He enlisted ] and others to engage in first a topic ban and then a community ban against me as a result of his difference of opinion about 2 images in ], whose current file pages now incorporate the information that I provided and which still remain in the article, despite other editors' attempts to remove them. (cont.) | |||
| That action and the "proposals" for these bans appear in my view to have been "punitive" (based on false allegations about insufficient reviewing of past events by a number of "involved" editors) and not "preventive". (cont.) | |||
| The banning of me does not "improve" the content, the format, or the environment of editing in Misplaced Pages. The "community" that may have "lost their patience" with me are actually a very small number of "involved" users who do not constitute a reasonablysized (or representative) sample of "uninvolved editors" in the "Misplaced Pages community" ] (said to have over 10 million in just registered users). Most of them were involved in content and/or format editing disputes or, in the case of ], may have "lost their patience" due to mitigating factors that have nothing to do with me (lack of time, busy otherwise, concern off-Wiki with personal matters). It is my ongoing ''firm belief'' that Shell misinterpreted what I stated on my talk page (which is still there for consultation). I am not ''the cause'' of their loss of patience. I have, however, several times apologized for not being "concise" enough for their liking. (Many of my comments are actually shorter than those of, say, ] or ], who has come to my support to some degree at times but who has also not read the full record and who makes statements in support of community banning me without knowing the full record, even though I do thank him for the several hours that he says he took to look at some of it. I find Abd's comments far longer than mine in many instances, including on talk pages of articles and project pages. At least one time that I have seen ] has expressed an unwillingness to read what he has to say and belittled it too. (cont.) | |||
| I believe that Abd has posted in the ANI concerning me and on my talk page in good faith, but I also understand that his posts do become very long and that they seem to try other people's patience. I also cannot discount the possibility that his posting about "the sad case" of NYScholar (me) here and elsewhere has some strong involvement with his own situation relating to a topic ban discussion concerning him (in arbitration). As he noted earlier, his being involved himself in such a matter, he is not the most effective advocate on my behalf. Nevertheless, his linked account (in his own user talk space sandbox) referring to the unfairness of the closing administrator's community ban of me is indisputable. ], one needs to consult vehement protestations of the editors and administrators involved in the "underlying dispute", some of whom are also involved in editing ] and in discussing it quite heatedly in ].] --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) (Updated. --] (]) 02:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)] | |||
| (ec) It should also be noted that the closing administrator (]) had been an administrator for a relatively short time (since April 2009) prior to responding to the urging of 2 ''involved'' editors (] and ]) to close (and community ban a user) on the basis of what was still an ongoing discussion in WP:ANI, and that the closing administrator has subsequently participated in the ongoing discussion in ] and in making edits to ] for which there are ongoing disputes about the matter of what constitutes "a consensus". There is currently no clear consensus about the changes being made to ] retroactively after AdjustShift's "closing" decision to "community ban" and indefinitely block me. --] (]) 02:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Lack of diffs.: Speaking for myself == | |||
| I see no basis for others' acceptance of false allegations presented without "diffs." that I have been "disruptive" in editing ] or in making comments on 2 images (whose image files now have been improved as a result of my bringing problems in their fair-use rationales to the attention of others). Claims of others that I act as if I "own" the article or that I have been "disruptive" are not the same thing as actual evidence of such "ownership" or "disruption". ] clearly states that one should not edit war over an already-consistent prevailing citation format. ] and ] and others have engaged in such edit warring. Moreover, inability of recent editors to use quotation marks properly is resulting in plagiarism from sources in the article. In moving items around, they are falsely attributing some material to incorrect sources when I supplied the quotation marks properly and attributed the correct sources accurately originally. (cont.) | |||
| When the ] permits a citation format that one has used since contributing the first citations to an article such as ] as I did (beginning to edit it on June 30, 2006, when it had no source citations at all), to continue updating the format (as the style guide itself was updated), is not a "disruption"; it is an "improvement" of an article. (cont.) | |||
| If other editors who are not experts in the subject cannot perceive that, that is their lack of perception, not "inconsistency"; MLA style allows and uses both ] and endnotes, as do many articles currently in Misplaced Pages, including some featured articles. | |||
| :, "Further reading", "References" (that are not "notes", "footnotes", or "endnotes"), and so on. Misplaced Pages recommends ''no single citation style''. (addendum) --] (]) 23:04, 19 July 2009 (UTC)] | |||
| The use of "p." and "pp." no longer appear in several citation styles that are currently options in Misplaced Pages: including: ], ], and ]. Following current ], these citation styles are being used in many articles throughout Misplaced Pages; some are being used consistently; some are used with many inconsistencies due to the nature of peer editing and vandalism in Misplaced Pages. In any case, however, it would be clear to ''any competent reader'' that numbers placed directly after a source's last name or after the title of a work cited or a parenthetical publication year in a citation refer to page numbers. "P." and "pp." are deprecated in many current versions of citation styles that are options according to the ]. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| I have also explained that when hearsay and lack of "diffs." and misinterpretations of online communications lead to false assumptions, as in this instance, it sometimes does take more words than some (involved) people would like to see to straighten out such problems. (cont.) | |||
| The group of Misplaced Pages users involved in underlying disputes who acted to "ban" me from Misplaced Pages need to reexamine the limitations of their so-called patience and whether or not those limitations actually result in improving the content and format of Misplaced Pages. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == I do not use e-mail with/with regard to Misplaced Pages == | |||
| I do not use e-mail with/with regard to Misplaced Pages, and, therefore, I will not be e-mailing any Misplaced Pages addresses relating to reviewing this so-called community banning of me. --] (]) 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Project page ] disputes == | |||
| I am also very busy with non-Misplaced Pages-related work. I do not have time to deal further with policy-related matters on Misplaced Pages. I think that Misplaced Pages needs to examine the disputes occurring in relation to editing ] and the gratuitous false allegations being made about me in ], to warn users against continuing to engage in them, and to add a {{tl|Disputedtag}} template to that project page; it is the subject of ongoing edit warring. --] (]) 23:37, 19 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Comments by Adb == | |||
| NYScholar is correct that ] was not followed, specifically the requirement for a consensus of uninvolved editors; there was no finding of such a consensus, only an overall consensus that did not consider involvement, nor has the closing admin for the ban clarified this, when it was pointed out, but simply relies on what is adequate -- and preferred! -- for most WP decisions, the arguments. However, community bans are an exception. This is not wikilawyering against the ban; what the defect means is that the ban is simply an administrative ban, it is still valid. There was clearly disruption over NYScholar's work, which it was essential to address. However, this does mean that more consideration should be given to measures short of a site ban, for there has been no determination by a consensus of uninvolved editors that NYScholar's work is, overall, damaging to the project. If NYScholar is willing to confine edits narrowly as promised, there ''is'' a purpose to unblock, contrary to the second decline. In addition to working on possibly useful material in user space, NYScholar would be able to seek a mentor, and then lifting the ban under agreement between the mentor and the unblocking admin could be considered. If NYScholar is disruptive during this process, the unblocking admin could reblock (or any other admin could). Complicating this is NYScholars refusal to use email, which I have not been able to understand, it's unfortunate. --] (]) 02:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| NYScholar, you continue to shoot yourself in the foot. Sure, my comments are sometimes longer than yours. However, I'm also banned from an article with that being one of the reasons! That is, at least, being used as an excuse, and I might end up being site-banned if things go badly at ArbComm. It's quite unpopular, and any admin looking at your unblock request is going to see all this talk after the request and think, "So this is why they blocked this editor." And whatever reality underlies this will, quite simply, not be seen. I advised you, initially, not to even put up an unblock template until there were negotiations for your return, but your refusal to use email made all this far more difficult. See, with email, you can write as much as you like and it won't be used against you, unless you seriously email the wrong person, and you could remain absolutely as anonymous with email as with a Misplaced Pages account, maybe even more anonymous. Your alternative, writing that material here, is simply guaranteeing the damage, plus you can't email ArbComm, you can't seek support, you depend entirely on whoever reads your Talk page, which will be increasingly few. You should also be aware that three unblock requests is often grounds for protecting your Talk page so that even it can't be edited by you. Unfair? Perhaps. Sometimes unfairness is necessary, because being fair isn't practical, it can take resources that aren't present. --] (]) 02:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :(ec) Please adhere to your earlier statement that you will cease commenting on this matter on my talk page. I do not and will not use e-mail with/with relation to Misplaced Pages. Nothing you say is going to change my preference not to use e-mail with/with relation to Misplaced Pages. Thank you. --] (]) 03:04, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Request (Attempt to make clearer) == | |||
| {{unblock reviewed|1=Past and ongoing failure to follow ] in effect at the time (July 1, 2009); failure to observe ] (See ] above); past and ongoing failure to follow multiple core Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines as they are listed in ]. Re: closing of the ban discussion: Misleading and erroneous counting of involved editors and involved administrators by the closing administrator and others in determining that "a consensus of uninvolved editors" had been reached. See link provided below this request (so it will format correctly) and previous discussions following ].|decline=The consensus to ban you is strong, and you're not likely to be able to poke holes in it, especially not by simply ignoring support from users without a similarly strongly reason. The below does not demonstrate that you wish to contribute productively to the encyclopedia. <font color="green">]</font>] 16:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC)}} | |||
| Link that won't post above without undoing format of request: See ", and ] on community bans" as it existed when this link was posted above by Abd on this talk page). (updated and moved to bottom of this page. For details, see above discussions. Thank you. --] (]) 03:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Sorry, but I don't understand that statement of "decline"; the "consensus" has clearly been called into question and the phrase "especially not by simply ignoring support from users without a similarly strongly reason." does not make sense to me. I don't know what Lifebaka means. As far as what I have posted below this request, it seems to me to "demonstrate" the opposite of what Lifebaka says. But that's my perspective on my own comments. (!) --] (]) 17:43, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Comments by Sarah == | |||
| The analysis you point to is fundamentally flawed. Uninvolved in the underlying dispute, doesn't mean "only those who have never commented before on prior ANI complaints about this user". There was only a small number of people who participated who were actually involved in the underlying dispute and they self-identified as such. Abd's "analysis" is also unbalanced in that he attempts to discount users who had previously commented on ANI complaints about you or had previously had contact with you (in one case, three years ago) but fails to discount those opposed who didn't investigate the complaint and merely have an ideological objection to long term blocks and bans. His analysis only examines those supporting and is thus unbalanced and it is based upon an incorrect understanding of policy and his own desire to change several aspects of the banning policy to something prescriptive, rather than a mere description of what we normally do. ] 05:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Response to Sarah == | |||
| I respectfully request ] to stop commenting about these matters on my talk page. I have been and am personally and professionally offended by her comments to me and about me over the past several years (in ANI and most recently in ]), and I do not enjoy reading such comments or having to take the time to respond to them while I am "community blocked". They are, in my view, not the comments of a neutral observer, very often entirely wrong-headed, very often gratuitous, and, in my own view, they do not "improve" Misplaced Pages or in any way serve Misplaced Pages well. They show a very bad side of Misplaced Pages to the public. --] (]) 13:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Happy to do so. As I said above, stop talking about me and making incorrect claims about me and I will stop feeling the need to correct you. I don't get any pleasure out of coming here (and in fact, find it incredibly frustrating) but when you keep making false accusations about me, you can expect me to correct the record. ] 14:46, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| If I thought that my statements were false, I wouldn't have made them. Please reread what I stated. In sum, you should not be bashing a banned editor in talk pages in Misplaced Pages. There is no need for you to keep my talk page on your watch list if you don't want to return here. --] (]) 15:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Well, your claims are false. And more than that, you seem to insist on always using the mot inflammatory language to talk about other users. You constantly insist that we AGF of you but you never AGF of others and always use the most insulting and inflammatory language and accusing me of being a liar is just a recent example of that. You would find that a lot of your problems on Misplaced Pages would go away if you made a deliberate effort to follow the AGF policy and stopped assuming everyone is out to get you or deliberately out to cause mischief for you. ] 15:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| '''I do not find Sarah to be an impartial neutral observer when it comes to assessing my contributions to Misplaced Pages.''' --] (]) 15:31, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == General queries == | |||
| What precisely was (were) the so-called underlying dispute(s) of the ANI ban proposals (topic and community ban proposals) filed by ] (formerly ]) and ]? In the proposals that they filed, the "underlying dispute(s)" appear to be shifting and multiple and to encompass what a whole host of users "involved" in them decided to call them and many of whom had participated in previous ANI discussions about me (and other editors). ] (using that moniker) is an administrator who was involved in content disputes relating to 2 images in ] that led him (in my view extremely prematurely and without advance warning) to post ban proposals in ANI, to claim that he would not support a "community ban" and then to reverse course after a short period in which he could not possibly have had enough time to examine my 4 plus years of contributions to Misplaced Pages, to decide on posting a community ban proposal "poll" in addition to the topic ban proposal "polls" posted by him and Ssilvers, which led to my community ban. In the course of those discussions the "underlying dispute(s)" became multiple disputes dredged up by a host of people who had participated in previous "underlying dispute(s)" and those are the people who Abd has labelled to be "involved" and not "neutral" participants. My mentor Shell became an involved participant when she sided with ] without reading the full record. She accepted Jezhotwells' claim to have "apologised" for his/her incivility toward me, but the apology was directed to Shell, not to me, and the incivility continued after the so-called apology. I did not ask for an apology; what I asked for was the cessation of the incivilities. That did not occur. Yet despite the history of filing an RfC about the use of MLA citation style in ] (the immediate center of an editing dispute initiated by Jezhotwells) and a "mediation" focusing on me as a contributor and a RfC on Jezhotwells' own editing focusing also on me as a contributor, nevertheless, Jezhotwells' comments are being "counted" as if they were those of a "neutral" observer, which they are not. The same may be said of others (including Sarah and Shell) whom Abd has (in my view correctly) discounted as "involved" in the "underlying dispute(s)" in Steve Smith/Sarcasticidealist's and Ssilvers' polls. --] (]) 14:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :The underlying dispute appears to be the Pinter article, talk page and it's related pages and sub-articles, including the image pages. I have never touched any Pinter pages, have no interest in Pinter and was not even remotely involved in that dispute. I became involved with you in my role as an administrator and an OTRS agent for the Wikimedia Foundation and not in any kind of editing or content disputes or as an editor of your articles. Of course you think Abd is right, it's in your best interest that he is as it's really the only leg you have to stand on in arguing against this ban. But even if for the sake of argument we take Abd's (extreme and unrealistic, IMHO) viewpoint and say this is a block, not a ban, you still need to deal with the reasons for the block and your above unblock request is just wikilawyering and doesn't address the conflicts or the reasons many felt a block was necessary. I would not unblock someone who argued that the block was illegitimate because of legalistic reasons rather than addressing the reasons the block was deemed necessary. Also, "discounting" opinions of involved parties means taking it into consideration when weighing comments, it doesn't mean deleting or ignoring those people's opinions, especially when they make strong policy-based arguments (and as the closing administrator noted, he found the arguments of the supporter's strongly based in policy). Just a thought you might like to consider. ] 14:59, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::It is entirely clear from the breadth of discussions of me in the ANI in which you yourself commented, that the discussers have broadened the subject of the "underlying dispute" to be "ownership issues" in general, my "editing style" in general, the nature of my actual expertise in general, my forthrightness in general, my personality in general, and many specifics about me, about all of which Sarah has commented in the past and continues to comment both on this talk page and in other talk pages, including in ]. '''Sarah is not a "neutral" observer when it comes to assessing my contributions to Misplaced Pages, in my view. Her previous involvement in previous ANI discussions makes that very clear.''' --] (]) 15:15, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::Thank you but I don't actually claim to be "neutral" and if I did, I would have blocked you long ago. I don't, however, consider myself to be involved in the dispute that led to the recent ANI complaint because I've never edited anywhere near that subject area and did not participate in that dispute. Policy doesn't say that only people who are neutral can comment or only people with no prior contact with a user can comment and if someone makes a strong policy-based argument, it's not going to be ignored because they have some prior involvement with the user. I noted in my ANI statement my prior involvement so if AdjustShift read that and concluded my comment was nevertheless helpful in assessing the discussion then that's fine and he's not obliged to ignore it. I became involved with you firstly as a Wikimedia Foundation OTRS agent and then as an admin reviewing a complaint to ANI. I have never been involved in content disputes with you, but I'm able to look at your edits and the constant and repeated disputes you've had with people since your arrival on Misplaced Pages and realise that something is seriously not right here. ] 15:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| '''I am leaving the matter to anyone who wants to examine it to do so. That is my stance.''' --] (]) 15:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ==Speaking for myself again== | |||
| Speaking for myself again: In my own understanding: I have been "community banned" "indefinitely" by the closing administrator, ], who lists this in my "block log" as such. It is both an "indefinite" "community ban" and an "indefinite" "block" of ] from editing Misplaced Pages (other than my current talk page; I added archive talk pages for the purpose of enabling the archive bot to function). I speak for myself. Neither Abd nor any other user of Misplaced Pages speaks for me. I linked his assessment of the "polls" and the closing by AdjustShift because it makes sense to me. I do not agree with all of what Abd says about me or about other subjects in general. He does not speak for me. As should be entirely clear, we have had no communication other than what appears in public Misplaced Pages space. --] (]) 15:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| My past experience attempting to communicate with ] (see above and archived talk pages) has proved to me that doing so is unproductive and fruitless. I see no point in her continuing to post comments on my talk page or my continuing to attempt to reply to them. As in the past, I consider her comments to me to be offensive, gratuitous, and bordering on harassment of me. For talk page guidelines applying to Misplaced Pages user's own user talk space, please see the links in my section called "N.B." above (linked in my user talkpage header). | |||
| As stated there, I will delete any such further comments from this talk page. My deletion of them is a sign that I have read them and found them to be offensive, gratuitous, and bordering on harassment of me. Thank you. --] (]) 21:07, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == General comments == | |||
| It is my sense that the convoluted, unfair, and dysfunctional nature of Misplaced Pages administration will ultimately lead to the demise of Misplaced Pages. I do not believe that Misplaced Pages administrative processes are fairly or consistently being followed (not only in my own case but in other cases as well), perceive a great deal of contradiction throughout Misplaced Pages policy and guideline pages ], and I do not believe that these policy pages are clearly enough understood by many ] or believed to be fairly followed by the larger so-called ] (notice the redirection). These draconian procedures and the "lack of patience" throughout a very small portion of this community to tolerate a variety of "editing styles" that are actually options in Misplaced Pages drive away expert scholarly editors like me from contributing their knowledge and expertise to editing Misplaced Pages. (cont.) | |||
| I stand by my edits to ] over the past four plus years and by my other contributions throughout Misplaced Pages. I have tried to improve that article since I first began editing it on June 30, 2006 ] to bring it successfully through a ] review, which it passed in early October 2007 (''with'' the optional ], which ] began contesting beginning on Dec. 25, 2008, the day that Harold Pinter's death was announced publicly and with the style of writing that Jezhotwells and others labelled "execrable" ; one can find the style in my Sandbox). ], which ] archived in the midst of the ANI filed by ] (formerly ].] (cont.) | |||
| Between the beginning of my editing as "NYScholar" on June 30, 2005 and my recent "community banning" (June 30-July 2, 2009), I have tried to improve many other articles and sections of articles on other subjects throughout Misplaced Pages. (My ] user subpage lists some appreciation for those efforts.) The record of my discussions with related links is in my archived talk pages and my "contributions" are accessible via my talk page header. See my other responses above. Thank you. (updated.) --] (]) 14:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Comments by Shell Kinney == | |||
| I'm beginning to wonder how many times I'm going to have to defend myself against ever conflating accusations. Contrary to various claims made here, I did read every word NYScholar wrote and when investigating situations (yes, there was more than one) such as this incident at Harold Pinter, I also went the extra step of reading NYScholar's talk page/archives, the article talk page/archives, the other involved editor's talk pages/archives and even reviewed the recent contribution history of all involved. NYScholar continues to claim a lack of time, interest or due diligence on my part not because there was any actual lack (nor could she know that beyond this incredibly bad faith assumption), but because my advice and opinion of the situation was not what she wanted to hear. Sadly, NYScholar doesn't seem to understand that even if I had done as she claims, it doesn't mitigate her behavior problems which were th actual source of the ban.<p>If you read the above and the history of our mentorship, you may notice the same pattern I referred to in the ban discussion. After a particular incident was ended, usually because the community took NYScholar to ANI or elsewhere to stop the disruption, I tried to discuss the incident with her and talk about what went wrong. We discussed specific problems and how to react better to similar situations in the future. During this discussion, NYScholar would state that she understood and indicate that she would try taking the advice she was getting; she sometimes put this advice in her own words to show she understood the concept. I always felt hopeful after these discussions since she seemed to sincerely want to understand and resolve these problems. Unfortunately, she never seemed to be able to apply these discussions in practice. When another issue came up and the same behavior occurred, I would try to speak with NYScholar to let her know that she was repeating these behaviors, ask her to remember our discussions, repeat my suggestions for how to handle the situation better and remind her how she said she would respond. Each time, I received a long (many paragraph) explanation of why my reading of the situation was incorrect, or that she wasn't doing what I said she was or even an explanation why this behavior was justified because of other people's actions. Despite multiple tries on my part each time, once any kind of dispute had started, NYScholar was unable to stop repeating those same behaviors or even acknowledge that the behaviors were occurring.<p>Its very unfortunate that Abd decided to get involved here; his advice to banned users is always a bit off, at best. Abd's chart uses his own interpretation of "involved" that doesn't follow anything that resembles community standards. Its telling that only by chucking the opinions of anyone who's ever commented on NYScholar (even if its just been an outside opinion on an ANI thread) and people like me who spent six-months trying to avoid this outcome could Abd even come up with enough "oppose" comments to make this anything other than a clear consensus. Its also telling that he didn't remove any oppose comments even though several meet his "involved" criteria. I find it rather reprehensible that he's misleading NYScholar in this manner to further his quest for a novel interpretation of the banning/blocking policy. Regardless, when you have to stretch and twist the truth in such a manner to get things your way, I'd say that's even stronger support that this ban is an unfortunate necessity well supported by the community. ] <sup>]</sup> 15:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ==Response to Shell== | |||
| I respect ]'s right to express her views, but I still stand by my statement that I believe that she has misinterpreted the comments that I made in response to her (See ]). She claims that I "blamed" her for various things; I did not do so. I simply responded reasonably and civilly to what she stated. The record is there to consult. Her interpretations of my tone of voice are, in my own understanding of my own intentions, misinterpretations of my tone of voice ("attitude"). As a teacher of writing, I teach my students in college and university writing courses that "tone of voice" (attitude of the writer toward the reader, toward the subject, and toward himself or herself) is easily misinterpreted in written forms of communication and that potential for misinterpretation is increased exponentially via internet communications. The (mis)communication between Shell and me is an instance of such potential for misinterpretation and such instances occur throughout Misplaced Pages talk pages. --] (]) 15:37, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| : At times, she also gave me the impression that she was refusing to read what I wrote. I refer to that impression in my responses to her archived in ]. One has to click on "show" for some of the responses. --] (]) 15:39, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| : The references that ] makes to "the community" "taking" me to "ANI" are misleading. In one instance, ''I'' filed an ANI about another user's incivilities toward me in the talk pages of ] and on the user's user page; ] entered that ANI discussion and ''changed'' my heading to include me and re-directed and in my view ''mis''directed the ANI that I filed to focus against me. The closing administrator made the requirement of unblocking me (a block which lasted about a day) to be getting a mentor; my mentor became ], who at the time was unknown to me. (cont.) | |||
| :In another instance, ] filed an ANI called "NYScholar revisited", after he noticed my reference in ]'s RfA to my "brief" mentorship by him, in which he leveled many false allegations, including a false allegation of "collusion" between my past mentor ] and me. ].] Other users objected to what Orderinchaos was alleging, including Ecoleetage, ], and others; there was and is no proof and could not be any proof of that ''false allegation''. But the discussions centered on me as a contributor in general due to the entering of the ANI by previously involved users such as ] and the entering of the ANI by others previously involved in an editing dispute about ], an article which I have since refused to edit at all after encountering incivilities by these others there and in the earlier ANI. The user whom I was complaining about ] (who had posted negative comments about me on his user page--see its editing history) even offered to accept sanctions himself, but his friend ] argued against that (see Stuthomas's talk page) and lobbied for sanctions against me in the ANI, just as he has continued to do in the most recent ANI filed not by "the community" (as Shell states) but filed initially by ] (formerly ] (one user) and then joined by another user, ]. (Ssilvers later congratulated a number of users involved in the ANI on their successful banning of me, thanking them, including thanking Shell.) (cont.) | |||
| :I had been required by the terms of the closing of the ANI filed by ] to have a mentor, and I had asked Shell to be my mentor. She resigned from mentorship of me in March 2009. (All of our discussions are archived in our respective talk pages.) (cont.) | |||
| One needs to consult both my own talk page archive and those of these other users for the discussions about 2 images' "fair use" rationales, one of which was uploaded by ]. Ssilvers later altered the image file description page (See ]) to incorporate some of the information that I supplied during the discussion of the problems in the "fair-use rationale" for the image that he had uploaded; it is now a "non-free media use" rationale and it has an expanded "purpose" section which responds to my requests for a better fair-use rationale (it used to feature a "fair use" rationale: ), incorporating a fuller explanation of why it is there. ) (cont.) | |||
| The other image (see ]) was one being deleted from ] by another user ] (: one instance; he removed it several times). TEB728 also comments in the ANI filed by Steve Smith/Sarcasticidealist and who the latter encouraged to enter a topic and/or community ban against me (in a project page copyright discussion about that DVD image, in which Sarcasticidealist (aka Steve Smith) states that one way to delete the image was via a topic and/or community ban of me). That same image has since (after my "community banning") been reinserted in the article after its image file page was updated to incorporate (in a new "non-free image" rationale) some of the information that I supplied. It is an image that I originally uploaded. If one clicks on the 2 images in ] one can follow their editing history and discussion pages. In my view, neither of these image disputes should have become the intitial focus of "topic ban" polls and then a "community ban" poll in ANIs. It was not necessary for Steve Smith/Sarcasticidealist to go that route. In my view he has wasted both my time and the time of many others over what was clearly a simple editing dispute that was ultimately resolved amicably. (updated.) --] (]) 16:40, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :For the discussion of the image that I uploaded ], one can consult the article diffs. (e.g., and the talk page editing history (and related copyright issues project talk pages (see contributions of ] as well). (cont.) | |||
| :Apparently (?), ] (? et al.?) has deleted from the current talk page all that discussion and not archived it in archiving the talk page during the ANI leading to my "community ban" (and later). I could not find it in the talk page archive. This selective archiving of article talk pages violates article ]. It appears to me to be further evidence of lack of good faith on the part of ] et al. and leads me to raise the very same ] questions about this coterie's editing of the article since I have been "community banned" that they were raising about me earlier (see its editing history and the talk page editing history from June 27/28 to the present). There is no consensus for deleting such large amounts of discussion from article talk pages when archiving current talk pages of articles. These deletions make it difficult if not impossible for the ordinary user to follow the development of the discussions. To delete the material relating to the ANI while it was ongoing is highly obstructive, in my view. --] (]) 17:05, 20 July 2009 (UTC) ] (]) 17:23, 20 July 2009 (UTC)] | |||
| Have no fear about Abd misleading me, etc. I am wise enough to know that the matter of my "indefinite" "community ban" and any potential for unbanning it does not rely solely on the arguments of Abd. My future contributions to Misplaced Pages totally depend on the ''fair'' and ''just'' treatment of me as an editor in and by Misplaced Pages. As far as I can tell so far, any quest for "fairness" and "justice" in this matter does not appear likely to succeed and any ability that I might have to contribute to "improving" Misplaced Pages in the future also does not appear to be likely. For that to happen, a fair and impartial administrator (or more than one) would have to review this situation and my contributions to Misplaced Pages over the past over 4 years and come to a fair and impartial result. That does not seem likely either, judging from my own past experience in and with Misplaced Pages. --] (]) 16:40, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ==Summary== | |||
| Contrary to part of the statement in the recent "decline" of my request, it would seem to me that ''encouraging'' Misplaced Pages (administrators) to "demonstrate" its own "fairness" and "justice" in the application of its own ] would be a most "productive" contribution to this encyclopedia and would encourage other editors of my caliber to contribute to it. As the "process" stands, that is highly unlikely. --] (]) 17:47, 20 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 21:43, 20 July 2009
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