Misplaced Pages

Population history of Egypt - the language issue

Hi there. I have a slight concern stemming from your comment on your edit, to the effect of work being needed on the language section. This section is only relevant to the extent that it sheds light on the population history of the people, it is not a detailed article about the languages themselves. Please discuss on the talk page. Thanks Wdford (talk) 12:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi Wdford,

Probably more details should be given to the Ancient Egyptian language itself; or at least the scripts (as I am doing now). I didn't say they weren't relevant but that would be like having a section dedicated to the Spanish language full of details about Romance and Latin languages with nothing about the Spanish itself. -- FayssalF - 12:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, I agree with you and that's why I am working on it trying to reduce it and keep the main points. -- FayssalF - 12:36, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

OK - that makes sense. Thanks for the response. Wdford (talk) 12:44, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Omar Sharif and Youssef Chahine

Fayssal: Thanks for protecting the article. Please do the same with Youssef Chahine. Omar Sharif had been mediated till the cows went home on its Talk page by Admin Sancho. The problem can be summarized in Admin. Sancho's statement: "Even the leap from "Sharif's parents were Lebanese", to "Sharif is of Lebanese descent" is going too far in an article about a living person." Omar Sharif and Youssef Chahine are both Egyptian citizens whose parents may have had Lebanese origins of some sort or may have been immigrants to Egypt. Sancho had laboriously and very methodically mediated Omar Sharif's article and he found no support for any Lebanese reference to be made about Omar Sharif... He made the statement above, that his parents origins could NOT be extended to him. This is the version that Sancho had ended with. We do not want to go this whole process again. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 00:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Arab cowboy you are a disrespectful person first saying that I was nonsense, then saying Im a tribal Middle Easterner and now calling me a cow? Do you know how to have a discussion in a civil manor. I am sure the administrator will judge fairly so please do not sit here and make problems. Youssef Chahine does have Lebanese origins, this is verifiable, his father was Lebanese, his real name is Gibran Sawaya. His father was an immigrant to Egypt. And Omar Sharif real name Michael Demitri is also Lebanese by origin. His parents were Lebanese immigrants to Egypt. The only thing Egyptian about Youssef and Omar is the fact they were born in another country that is not their country of origin. His parent's origins are his origins as well. So we do not need to say his father was Lebanese but instead Youssef Chahine is of Lebanese origin. Or instead of saying Omar Sharif's father is Lebanese that Omar Sharif is of Lebanese origin. This is the truth. No Lebanese reference to be made about Omar Sharif LOL...Michael Shalhoub is clearly a Lebanese name. And Sancho did say that you should make a reference to his origins as being Lebanese. I can also point that out. Lebanese bebe (talk) 14:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Harrassed bebe, please provide evidence with quotations from me where I said that you were nonsense and a tribal Middle Easterner. You distort my words as you distort everything about the articles you wish to discuss. The proof is up here on this page. You falsely claim that I called you a cow when there was no mention of you at all in the whole paragraph. You seem to enjoy being insulted that you are doing it to yourself! Please do not waste my time. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 06:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I love Lebanese and I love Egyptians. In fact, I love everyone :) Incidentally, I've always thought that Omar Sharif's parents (not him, he's an Egyptian) were either Lebanese or Syrian but that has been my personal belief which has no basis since I had no sources (just hearsay). Now, what's the deal, guys? My advice (well, all admins would tell you the same story) is to look for reliable sources to back up your claims. I am directing this specifically to Lebanese bebe because the burden of proof lies with the editor who adds or restores material. You need to bring a solid reliable source. Otherwise, you better drop it.

To help you both, guys. http://omarsharif.netfirms.com/articles.htm is not a reliable source at all. According to Misplaced Pages:RS we only publish the opinions of reliable authors. Now, Lebanese bebe, could you please start basing your edits on real reliable sources and avoid using websites hosted for free (netfirms.com!!!) as reliable sources? You could easily back up your edits with stuff like the ones I've just found... Come on guys, don't be lazy!

• <ref>{{cite book |last=Cooper-Chen |first=Anne |title=Global entertainment media: content, audiences, issues |series=LEA's communication series |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=gb8Bkmq5254C&pg=PA93&dq=Michel+Dimitri+Shalhoub&ei=ZFKESsHFPKXCywTI9sXaDQ#v=onepage&q=Michel%20Dimitri%20Shalhoub&f=false |year=2005 |publisher=Routledge |isbn=0-8058-5169-0 |pages=93 |quote=Hamama starred with an unknown Syrian-Lebanese Christian, Michel Dimitri Shalhoub }}</ref>

• <ref>{{cite book |last=Darwish |first=Mustafa |title= Dream makers on the Nile: a portrait of Egyptian cinema |year=1998 |publisher=American University in Cairo Press |isbn=9-7742-4429-X |URL=http://books.google.com/books?id=GwBlAAAAMAAJ&q=Michel+Dimitri+Shalhoub&dq=Michel+Dimitri+Shalhoub&ei=ZFKESsHFPKXCywTI9sXaDQ |pages=31 |quote=Omar al-Sharif (1931- ) Omar al-Sharif was born Michel Dimitri Shalhoub, to an Alexandrian family of Lebanese descent. }}</ref>

Now, you can just copy and paste the above reliable sources and put the issue to rest. Can I unprotect the article now that you can see clearly what reliable sources say? Ok guys, matter resolved? -- FayssalF - 18:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Fayssal... all that you say makes sense. I have the most reliable source, Omar Sharif's own autobiography, The Eternal Male. I have a hard copy of it. The issue here is that I have been through this whole process on Omar Sharif's Discussion page before. Each and every word related to his origins was subjected to very close scrutiny by Admin Sancho. Sancho's decision was what I stated above, that there's no reliable evidence that Omar Sharif was anything but Egyptian. Sancho's concluding statement was: "Even the leap from "Sharif's parents were Lebanese", to "Sharif is of Lebanese descent" is going too far in an article about a living person." It is still on the article Discussion page. Obviously Lebanese bebe is new at this; she's making hilarious claims, including the claim that she lives in the USA, because if she really did, she would know that "till the cows go home" is an American expression that means that the matter was discussed to its conclusion. It had nothing to with her being a cow or otherwise, and she obviously insults herself and attributes the insults to others. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 22:47, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Fayssal, please see this interview with Omar Sharif: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYD0LTKaFc4&feature=related. At Time 11:30, he says, "I've never changed my passport. My passport was always Egyptian." Period! --Arab Cowboy (talk) 17:07, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Arab Cowboy, "I've never changed my passport. My passport was always Egyptian" is something which relates to him as an individual. That has nothing to do with his ancestral origins which is the subject of your editorial dispute. -- FayssalF - 14:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Fayssal, the article is about Omar Sharif as an individual, not his ancestors. This was the conclusion of the previous mediation by another admin on the same article. In addition, we have already stated that he belongs to a Lebanese-Egyptian family, so, what is the subject of the dispute now? --Arab Cowboy (talk) 11:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Omar Sharif was born Michael Shalhoub in Alexandria, Egypt to Lebanese-Egyptian Catholic parents. I hadn't seen that sentence! -- FayssalF - 14:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Mythdon proposal at ANI

This message is being sent to inform the Arbitration Committee of a sanction proposal forbidding me from editing Arbitration Committee pages and talk pages. Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Mythdon and Arbitration Mythdon (talk • contribs) 05:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Reply on my talk page

I have responded to your "explicit final warning". Upon reading this notification, please revert this notification. Mythdon (talk • contribs) 19:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Rachid Sbihi

An editor has nominated the article Rachid Sbihi, which you created, for deletion. See Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Rachid Sbihi. Regards, Qwfp (talk) 15:04, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Second Lebanon War

You reverted my edits to the Second Lebanon War. Apparently, you thought that they weren't "neutral." I should have you know that my edits were thoroughly researched, cross-referenced, sourced and on some occasions, double sourced.

I'm puzzled as to what you find biased in my edits. I added 6 paragraphs (2 in the "Background" section and four in the "Post War events" section), each dealing with a factual event that ocurred. Please review each paragraph and tell me what you find objectionable and why you found the sources to be unreliable.

In addition, since everything I edited was sourced, the reader can take the information at face value and disregard or accept the information based upon the reader's assessment of the source. However, by deleting my edits, you have substituted the reader's judgnment with your own and have acted as an abusive censor and I believe that you have abused your position as site administrator.

I fully intend on re-posting the reverted edits and adding more edits to this and other articles dealing with the Arab/Israeli conflict to restore some balance and unbiased reporting. --Jiujitsuguy (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)jiujitsuguy--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi there Faysself. I see that you were quick to revert my edits but not so quick to explain why you thought the sourced material violated neutrality. I would like an explanation please. --Jiujitsuguy (talk) 00:09, 2 September 2009 (UTC)jiujitsuguy--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 00:09, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Jiujitsuguy. Nobody can be connected onwiki for 24h :) Well, the following are your edits...

• In late June of 2005 an IDF paratroop unit operating near Shaba Farms detected and engaged a three-man Hezbollah squad that had infiltrated the area. In the day long chase that followed, the IDF force succeeded in killing the squad’s commander while his two comrades fled back across the border. A videotape captured by the paratroopers contained evidence that left little doubt of Hezbollah’s intention to abduct soldiers. <ref>Amos Harel, “Chronicle of Disaster,” 07/18/08, www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1003170.html</ref>

reason: This sounds as like press release made by an army. succeeded, evidence, little doubt, intention are all terms used by a biased source. The use of such heavy words makes your tone so biased unless the newspaper is using the same words and in such a case it would be deemed a biased source.

• The following 12 months witnessed three more attempts by Hezbollah to abduct soldiers. All of these were thwarted by the IDF. The most audacious attempt occurred on November 21, 2005 when dozens of heavily armed Hezbollah special forces, under cover of mortar and rocket fire, crossed the border on foot, motorcycles and ATVs and stormed an Israeli outpost at Kafr Rajar. The outpost however was empty and the Hezbollah force fell victim to an Israeli ambush. A lone Israeli marksman, Cpl. David Markowitz succeeded in killing four guerillas. The remaining force retreated back to their positions in Lebanon, leaving much of their equipment behind. <ref>Dudkevitch, Paratrooper Sniper Becomes Hero, Jerusalem Post Online Edition, 11/22/05.</ref>

reason: Sounds too heroic for an encyclopedia tone. Look at the source again. Imagine a Hizbollah's partisan media talking about this same event if it ever took place.

• On February 12, 2008 a car bomb in Damascus killed Imad Mugniyah, the head of Hezbollah’s military wing. As its chief military strategist, Mugniyah’s assassination dealt the organization a severe blow. <ref>Zisser, Nasrallah’s Defeat in the 2006 War, 01/23/09, http://netwmd.com/blog/2009/01/3167</ref> According to Israeli intelligence sources, someone had replaced the headrest of the driver’s seat with another containing a small high explosive charge. <ref>http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2008/02/israel_killed_h.php </ref> Israel considered Mugniyah a “significant force behind actions against Israel” and connected him to the kidnapping of the two reservist soldiers. <ref>Greenberg, Militay Intelligence: Hizbullah lost its number one figure, ynetnews.com, 2/13/08</ref>

reason: Note the blog in the website address. Blogs are not used as reliable sources. We are also talking about the 2006 Lebanon War so the this whole edits about Imad Mughniya which happened on 2008 is considered undue weight. See WP:UNDUE.

• On July 14, 2009 an underground Hezbollah ammunition depot set off a massive series of explosions in the South Lebanese village of Khirbat Silim, just ten miles north of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Hezbollah, embarrassed by the incident and its apparent violation of UN Security Counsel Resolution 1701, blamed the explosion on, “leftover shells that had been collected during and after Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon,” in 2000.<ref>Associated Press, Hezbollah: Lebanon blast set off by old shells, 7/22/09</ref> However, United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Peacekeeping Operations, Alain LeRoy, placed the blame squarely on Hezbollah and blamed the organization for heightened tensions in Southern Lebanon.<ref>Benhorin, UN official: Arms Cache that exploded in Lebanon was Hezbollah’s, ynetnews.com, 7/23/09</ref>

reason: Embarassed, apparent? That aside, is this article about the 2006 events or 2009? Please do review WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE.

• On July 15, 2009 an Iranian Tupolev commercial airliner crashed in northwest Iran. The Italian newspaper, Corriere della Sera, reported that the crash-which left 168 people dead-was caused by the explosion of sophisticated fuses slated to be delivered to Hezbollah. The aircraft was carrying a large number of modern fuses composed of two kilograms of explosives and electrical instrumentation. Members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, who accompanied the contraband, were also killed in the crash. <ref>Magal, Iran Plane was carrying arms for Hezbollah, ynetnews.com (citing Corriere della Sera), 08/02/09.</ref>
• On August 23, 2009 villagers of the South Lebanese village of Marwakhin forcefully repelled efforts by Hezbollah gunmen to store weapons in their village. The incident was filmed by the IDF’s field intelligence Corps. <ref>http://www.youtube.com/user/idfdesk?blend=4&ob=4</ref> <ref>Lebanese villagers recorded driving away Hezbollah men, Ynetnews.com, 8/25/09</ref>

reason: Undue weight again. And Youtube is not a reliable source. -- FayssalF - 00:58, 2 September 2009 (UTC)