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German reunification

... it is wrong that East Germany has become part of West Germany - at the 3rd of October 1990 East Germany as well as West Germany desisted from existing - the territory of East Germany acceded to the ambit of the Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany - the Basic Law was changed into the constitution of Germany.

Citius Altius Fortius 08:06, 1 July 2005 (CEST)

This information is wrong, the GDR joined the BRD under the article 23 of the Basic Law, therefore the GDR desisted from existing the BRD still exist see German Wiki and the preamble of the German Basic Law http://www.bpb.de/wissen/89EEKH,0,0,Pr%E4ambel.html. Therefore I will delete the last sentence. (sorry for my unregisteration)

"Infobox Former Country" removed

The use of "Infobox Former Country" is utterly wrong, as the Federal Republic of Germany still exists, having grown in 1957 by 1 and in 1990 by 5 states, similar to the USA which has grown several times, e. g. by two states in 1959, see List of U.S. states by date of statehood. Nobody would claim that the USA ceased to exist in 1958. Thus the infobox is removed, and data is moved into a separate section. -- Matthead      O       16:34, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Before those actions please first discuss here!

The Infobox itself is advantageous. You are right about the name of the Infobox ("Former Country"), but the name is negligibly. --Orangerider 19:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I've repeatedly used this talk page, which can not be said about you. The Infobox as such does not apply, as it claims that it the Federal Republic of Germany ceased to exist in 1990, which is utterly wrong. The use of the box is unacceptable, it contradicts facts. -- Matthead      O       20:34, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The Infobox is applied to the political occurances in West Germany; the several references in the acticle already show that the German state is and was always the identically very same until today and that it didn't cease to exist in 1990, but kept to exist in 1945, 1949 and 1990. --Orangerider 20:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

As the section above proves, and many other remarks elsewhere, too many people just don't get it, they either believe that West Germany does not exist anymore, or that it was merged on equal terms with East Germany. Same for German national football team, some insist they never won a World Cup, but West Germany did three times!

If any data that is listed in such a infobox is needed, then it can be included separately. For example, a comparison of the area and population would be interesting - but then this would belong in a different article, like History of Germany since 1945‎, where most of this article should be moved to anyway. It's enough to explain the informal use of "West Germany" with a few sentences and a map here. -- Matthead      O       01:12, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be very intent on promoting one particular point of view that, clearly, not everyone agrees with. It's not a matter of "getting it," it's a matter of not agreeing with you. --Reuben 01:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

So why does not everyone agree with simple facts (and my view)? Why do people insist on odd misconceptions? West Germany is not an informal name, it is a misinformational one, leading to gross mistakes - see the use of "Infobox Former Country" for a country that still exists, enlarged by about 25%. It would be funny to apply this infobox also to the many USofAs that ceased to exist when additional states joined the Union which even altered its flag on every occasion. The only useful(?) information of "West Germany" is "Hey, don't forget, a separate communist East German state existed once, too". -- Matthead      O       03:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it would help if you could distinguish between the concepts "West Germany" and "Federal Republic". The Federal Republic (the political entity) continues to exist, even though in different borders. West Germany (the geographical and cultural entitiy) ceased to exist, because the situation of a divided Germany, which defined East and West Germany, has come to an end. Your comparison with the expansion of the United States is misleading, because this process wasn't a reunification of a divided country, but gradual expansion into territories that never belonged to the US before. Anorak2 04:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

It seems that what you really want is to change the title, but there's a clear consensus against it. We can make it clear that the FRG state was continuous and grew to encompass the former East German lands without devoting the whole intro to attacking the idea of West Germany as a distinct entity, which is basically what it does now. --Reuben 05:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the Infobox: Former Country; on the grounds that officially it's the same country, simply larger. When Saarland was returned to the Federal republic, one would not say that there was a completely new county. And nor was it a new country when what was the democratic republic of Germany disolved and land joined the federal republic. --Île_flottante~Floating island (talk) 18:45, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the infobox is extremely misleading, especially the lists of former chancellors and presidents which suggest a break in 1990 are utterly wrong and nonsensical. West Germany is not a former country, it's an unofficial term that was used during the Cold War for a country which still exist and has existed continously since it was formed as the North German Confederation in 1867. As a state, there is a full continuity, there is no question over this as far as constitional law is concerned. Lists of former office holders belong in separate articles, and they don't end in 1990. UweBayern (talk) 00:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Info box is correct.--Jacurek (talk) 19:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

User:Jacurek, who has never edited this article before, is wikistalking me, reverting my edits in an attempt to provoke me. He and other Polish editors are under scrutiny by Arbcom Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern European mailing list. -- Matthead  Discuß   19:27, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Matthead this a a proper Info-box that was here forever and there is not a consensus on removing it. The fact that you and UweBayern don't like it is not a consensus.--Jacurek (talk) 19:31, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources would be needed for inclusion the claim that Germany does not exist anymore. Good luck with finding some. -- Matthead  Discuß   20:24, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Info-box contains tons of important information including maps, list of all presidents since 1949, chancellors etc. It is a proper info-box used in all other articles. You can not remove the whole box because you don't like it. Thanks.--Jacurek (talk) 20:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Nonsense, the infobox is cluttered with arbitrary incomplete stuff. "list of all presidents since 1949"? Those President of Germany elected since 1990 are missing. Stop your wikistalking, Jacurek. -- Matthead  Discuß   20:51, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

President of Germany elected after 1990 should not be there because the country does not exist anymore. It is all explained in the info-box you keep removing.--Jacurek (talk) 20:54, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

(out) Why don't you guys consider listing a request for input at WP:Third opinion or WT:WikiProject Germany. That is going to be a lot more productive than continuing to go in circles around one another. rʨanaɢ /_contribs 21:00, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Rjanag, for your suggestion, but it comes a little late (about two years). This (and related problems like many sport teams) was discussed several times (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Germany/Archive_11#The_old_West_Germany_-_Germany_problem, Wikipedia_talk:German-speaking_Wikipedians'_notice_board#.22West_Germany.22_again, and talk archives), and it is listed on Misplaced Pages:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board. Also, what do you expect from people who claim that my country does not exist anymore since 1990, or has been founded only in 1990? -- Matthead  Discuß   21:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

misleading introduction?

I read this article and immediately saw a confusing introduction. The first paragraph states "From 1990 onwards, the Federal Republic of Germany has been exclusively known as Germany." No, the Federal Republic of Germany is still the Federal Republic of Germany. Maybe it was meant to read "After 1990, the offical name of West Germany, the Federal Republic of Germany, was used as the official name for the reunified Germany." Chergles (talk) 19:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much this article is in a little limbo between facts and perceived facts. What we do know for sure is that in general usage the term "West Germany" was used for the Federal Republic of Germany until the unification. Since then it has been called Germany but is still the same (albeit a little larger) Federal Republic. Agathoclea (talk) 19:30, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Should we fix this? We don't want a student to write a report saying "In 1990, the name of Germany was changed from the Federal Republic of Germany to Germany." Is my original remark controversial???? Chergles (talk) 22:55, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Tried to fix the mistake and entered the facts- By changing the incorrect West Germany was formed to the correct: The Bundesrepublik Deutschland, Federal Republic of Germany (simply referred to as West Germany..) much of the obvious mistake would be corrected and explained, that West Germany is only a common everyday term, but as you can see, soon the incorrect term was entered again. I wonder what the reason is why people at wikipedia prefer mistakes?

Definetely needs fixing An Observer (70.133.74.161 (talk) 22:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC))

As long as this article is named West Germany, there is nothing wrong in using this short hand term. I do not see a justification for a move either, since this term is indeed very common.

As to the IP's edit, which I reverted, it did nothing else than repeating what is already stated in the first paragraph of the lead: To give the formal title of West Germany in English and German. This is certainly not the way to go. Means, we cannot specify the official denomination upon every use of the articles name.

Note that this is the English Misplaced Pages, after giving the official German denomination in the first sentence of the article, we do not need to repeat this.

Despite all this, I feel that you (the IP 70...) would be an enrichment to the Misplaced Pages project. Therefore, I want to encourage you to get an account (in less than 5 min) and become a full-fledged member. Tomeasy _{T C} 09:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The Federal Republic of Germany was also often known as simply Germany before 1990 in western countries. It was a more politically correct term from a western point of view, and was also used when it was clear from the context anyway that one referred to West Germany.

"From the 1990 reunification onwards, the Federal Republic of Germany has been exclusively known as Germany in common usage." hopefully avoids any misunderstandings. UweBayern (talk) 00:29, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Dubious

Berlin—Part of West Germany?

While the Grundgesetz may have define all of Berlin (Großberlin) as a federal state, Berlin, and especially West-Berlin had very clearly a special status in the Federal Republic of Germany. (No draft, no voting Members of the Bundestag.) Something like "in der Bunedsrepublik Deutschland und West-Berlin" was a common phrase in official documents, indicating that West-Berlin was distinct from West-Germany. I think there should be a whole section on Berlin. Unfortunately I don't think I'm up to it.--ospalh (talk) 14:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The section de:West-Berlin#Politischer Status of the German Misplaced Pages could be a starting point.--ospalh (talk) 14:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Or West Berlin#Legal status...--ospalh (talk) 14:41, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

How do we specify the area of West Germany in the infobox?

area of West Germany was 248,688 km2, as can be computed by from areas of Germany and East Germany published in wikipedia 357,021 - 108,333 = 248,688 km2. I tried writing it into the infobox using parameter stat_area1, but unfortunately this resulted in some weird exception being output as the population density. I hope somebody could find a way to fix this in order to display the area statistic. 76.24.104.52 (talk) 19:56, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Correct map?

Did someone notice that the map isn't entirely correct? I am quite sure that something went wrong here. East Germany looks much bigger than it actually was... any suggestion on how to obtain a correct map? teutsch (talk) 12:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

How is it wrong? Looks pretty much like the (different) map at New Länder. Rd232 17:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring

I have protected this page because there appears to be edit warring between Jacurek, Matthead, and Florian over the infobox. I see no "consensus" either way on the talk page, so all sides need to discuss this more before reverting one another and making claims to 'consensus' that does not exist. rʨanaɢ /_contribs 20:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

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