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I am Arab from Algeria and i know we are Arabs in origin,we have an Arab identity and the berbers from Algeria or Morocco recognize us as ARAB CONQUERANTS since 1400 years,maybe we mixed with berbers just like all the Arabs did everywhere they went but we are still ethnically ARAB.It is not serious telling that we are BERBERS in origin,then in an other article ( maghreb ) tlling we are predominantly of middle eastern origin.It is contradictory,actually even the US GOVERNMENT is mistaken,the US DEPARTEMENT OF STATE tells Algerians are of arab,arab-bereber or berber stock then the world factor book tells we are almost all berbers in origin.Europeans see MAGHREB as the symbol of Arab world,Europeans moved to America,Arabs moved to North Africa,simply. I OBVIOSULY correctd this article telling "most of the berbers identify themselves as Arabs" because it doesn't make sense.If you tell an Arab from Algeria or Morocco he is Berber he would be surprised,if you tell a berber that Arabs from Algeria or Morocco are BERBERS he would tell you "THEY CAME FROM ARABIA AND ARE NOT BERBERS".Arabs from Middle East including Egyptians condier us as Arabs ethnically and so do we.Unlike the Arabized black Africans Sudanese that call themselves ARABS but are not considered as ethnically ARABS by us or by the Middle Eastern Arabs.Also i tell that MAGHREB and MIDDLE EAST are not very opposed culturally,the differences almost don't exist.

"Those who traveled North were almost entirely absorbed into the waves of Middle Easterners who had already begun their migrations into the region."

This is based on the almost certainly false assumption that the Afro-Asiatic languages originated in the Middle East. In fact, most modern linguists think they came out of the Horn of Africa, whose population then was much more racially diverse than it is today. --Mustafa.

It's not a good idea to crop off the southern half of Africa just too save space on this page. Having the whole continent orientates the reader better. --Menchi 01:09, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. The image is reasonably small byte-wise and while it is rather wide (360px), it's still within the customary limits. The height doesn't matter much because the list by which it is placed extends downwards so there's enough room. --Shallot 12:32, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

religions groups

Few Studies

I was reviwing a few studies and noticed some intersteing patterns among NW Africans TYPICALLY (I realize this is a broad region with variation on the micro level). NW Africans have Y Chromosomes (male lineages) that emerge from Holocene (recent epoch) Sub-Saharan East Africa at a rate of about 75%. About 20% of their male lineages emerge from Holocene Eurasia. Typically about 70% of the mtDNA (female lineages) in NW Africa come from Holocene Eurasia and about about 30% from Sub-Saharan East and West Africa (M1 and L lineages). U6, which is of Upper Paleolithic origin (and hence not associated with modern phena) occurs in pooled NW African groups at about 15%. So in a broad sense one might say that NW Africa contributed male lineages to SW Europe and SW Europe contributed female lineages to NW Africa. --Orionix 23:52, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sounds like that could be explained in terms of quite recent history... - Mustafaa 00:12, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This is getting a bit comleccated for a 8 year old like me--SmartyJon (i dont think i am so smart now

Sudan, Canary Islands, Ethiopia, Eritrea and Madeira?

The official language of Ethiopia Amharic is a derivative of Ge'ez, both Afro-Asiatic languages that are typical of other North African countries. This is the basis for the classification of both countries as North African, although the majority of people in both countries are considered to be Black Africans (and thus Eastern) as a result of skin color. --- The article says that Sudan, the Canary Islands, Ethiopia, Eritrea and Madeira are countries of North Africa. How could that be? North African people are racially white, and countries like Sudan, Canary Islands, Ethiopia, Eritrea and Madeira have a black African majority. So, how could these countries be described as North African?--66.81.168.114 02:40, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The reason for this is that Ethiopia and the surrounding areas are known for the rich ancient history which compels many people of European descent to emotionally classify them further away from a "pure" black perspective, towards a more comforting "white" perspective. The closer the association northward, the closer to the "white". The civilization of Ethiopia is older than any other, and therefore it is hard for many to accept that this civilization is a Black one. While on the other hand it's beyond a doubt that Ethiopia is not an Arab, or Middle Eastern country. Therefore the green color of Ethiopia is tinted differently from the rest, allowing those who cling emotionally to a "non" black Ethiopian past the comfort when they see the picture, and acknowledging (grudgingly) that Ethiopia is not really a part of North Africa.

Don't you think you could have come up with a more decent, non-racist answer (whoever you are)? Ethiopia is probably considered to be part of North Africa sometimes because it is commonly considered to be part of NE Africa, therefore it can be considered to be in both East Africa and North Africa. Also, it is closely related to North Africa, and thus to Eurasia, culturally. The civilization of Ethiopia is not "older than any other", there are plenty that are older (viz. Egypt, Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, Babylon, Canaan, Minoa, Greece, India, China, Olmec, Maya, Kush, Rome, Persia, Media; not in chronological order, but all being older than Axum, which was Ethiopia's first empire). This, of course, doesn't mean that Ethiopia's is any less than any other civilization, because not all civilizations can arise and climax or even exist at the same time. There is no need to take jabs at an entire group of people the way this person has done. I won't attempt to psychoanalyze this person the was they have distressingly attempted to psychoanalyze others (obviously not so much for the sake of understanding and explaining the thoughts and words of others as for the sake of attacking them), for the deeper reason they have said these things is one that only they can share with us. --jugbo

I looked in the berber artiles and there was nothing there that supported your arguemnts that berbers who inhabit most of north africa were not black. Same goes for Egypt. This seems to be a very one-sided view. It makes no sense that in the Egypt and berber artilces we acknowlegde that Egyptians are a racial mixture of black and arab and other and north africans originate in east africa and have 75% of that blood group and here says the opposite. This article needs to be consistent with the other views represented on wiki. You can't have 3 different articles saying 3 different things about 1 group of people. I'm going to remove the part where you say that North Africans are non-black because there are already other articles that refute that and explain why so I don't really need to parrot other people. I will simply leave it with no race explained until this gets hammered out because we should not be misleading and confusing people with opposite definitions on one race or country of people. Besides I don't really know how race determines what geographical location you are? I mean do we say Italians, Spainards and Portugese people are in south europe because they are mixed with moor or do we say they they are south europe because of there physical location(Southern region of Europe). Jmac800

I removed the blantant contradiction from the article. It said that North Africans were Arabs followed by saying they are berbers. What a contradiction people won't take this site seriously if it is filled with them. Yes they have Arabic culture but the vast majority of them are Berbers with arabic culture.

"North Africa is often set apart from the sub-Saharan African region, as the desert serves more of an obstacle to communication than the sea itself." No source just someone spewing trash. I have no problem with statements that are fact based. This is clearly not. 1. No source is provided. 2. The Ocean was not a barrier as proven by the Romans and especially the Carthgians who never had trouble running a massive maritime trade. 3. There were various kingdoms who traded using the Sahara and Kanem Bornu set up a powerful empire based on basically robbing people who passed through the Sahara to go to East asia or West africa. The Wagdou of Ghana and the Songhai empire never seemed to have trouble passing this impassible barrier and setting up empire in them.