Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/Racepacket: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 16:23, 17 October 2009 editRacepacket (talk \| contribs)16,693 edits →Reply to comment by Soxwon (from User talkpage)← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:58, 20 October 2009 edit undoRyulong (talk \| contribs)218,132 edits →Reply to Madcoverboy's view: new sectionNext edit →
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	:::As to the history section, the October 1 version had severe WP:BOOSTERISM problems, which I tried to fix with edits that were immediately reverted. Several people had noted the copyright violation on the talk page. I finally checked it out and applied the {{tl\|copyvio}} template, which says we stop editing the page and use a subpage to develop a replacement. An administrator is then supposed to compare the two before authorizing moving the subpage back to the article. User PassionoftheDamon removed the template and the link to the subpage. I then spent an hour and a half salvaging the non-infringing portions of the history and writing a well sourced replacement, only to have User:PassionoftheDaman . I do not want to get my way on "every...single...edit...I want." I want reasoned discussion and am trying to apply Misplaced Pages policies. User Ryulong and I talked through a number of differences on ], but User PassionoftheDamon refuses to discuss his edits with anyone. When I put a {{tl\|fact}} tag on a sentence, he will delete it without adding any source. When he does not respond on the talk page, I finally have to delete the unsourced sentence to get him to finally add a reference to the sentence. When he does go back to add sources, he not bother to note that he found the source in the talk page discussion about the lack of sources. I would like to have a respectful, civil dialog with User:PassionoftheDamon as I do with most other Misplaced Pages editors, but his style is to revert everything and perhaps go back later with his own changes. A search of the ] history and talk page shows that this has been a problem for some time before I even started editing that page. I want to encourage Misplaced Pages editors and have actively recruited people to edit Misplaced Pages. I suspect that User PassionoftheDamon is projecting his own tactics on me when he claims "It's all incredibly tiresome, and that seems to be the point: his strategy is one of attrition. He tries to make himself as big a nuisance as possible on as many pages as possible, hoping that those who oppose his edits lose interest and let him do as he wants." As to his other concerns, I will respond to them in my main response. ] (]) 16:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)		:::As to the history section, the October 1 version had severe WP:BOOSTERISM problems, which I tried to fix with edits that were immediately reverted. Several people had noted the copyright violation on the talk page. I finally checked it out and applied the {{tl\|copyvio}} template, which says we stop editing the page and use a subpage to develop a replacement. An administrator is then supposed to compare the two before authorizing moving the subpage back to the article. User PassionoftheDamon removed the template and the link to the subpage. I then spent an hour and a half salvaging the non-infringing portions of the history and writing a well sourced replacement, only to have User:PassionoftheDaman . I do not want to get my way on "every...single...edit...I want." I want reasoned discussion and am trying to apply Misplaced Pages policies. User Ryulong and I talked through a number of differences on ], but User PassionoftheDamon refuses to discuss his edits with anyone. When I put a {{tl\|fact}} tag on a sentence, he will delete it without adding any source. When he does not respond on the talk page, I finally have to delete the unsourced sentence to get him to finally add a reference to the sentence. When he does go back to add sources, he not bother to note that he found the source in the talk page discussion about the lack of sources. I would like to have a respectful, civil dialog with User:PassionoftheDamon as I do with most other Misplaced Pages editors, but his style is to revert everything and perhaps go back later with his own changes. A search of the ] history and talk page shows that this has been a problem for some time before I even started editing that page. I want to encourage Misplaced Pages editors and have actively recruited people to edit Misplaced Pages. I suspect that User PassionoftheDamon is projecting his own tactics on me when he claims "It's all incredibly tiresome, and that seems to be the point: his strategy is one of attrition. He tries to make himself as big a nuisance as possible on as many pages as possible, hoping that those who oppose his edits lose interest and let him do as he wants." As to his other concerns, I will respond to them in my main response. ] (]) 16:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

			== Reply to Madcoverboy's view ==

			There are users without any sort of conflict of interest who still oppose his edits. I've given this multiple opportunities for outside views to be given, but nothing was ever done. It's fine that he wants to make these articles neutral and provide better sources. It is just that when he is challenged and consensus is against him, he continues to push his point of view and edits, claiming that he has the consensus to make the changes. This is what has to end. The regular editors of {{la\|University of Miami}} and its related articles are all tired of clarifying things to Racepacket when he is very clearly wrong, such as in the dispute over the inclusion of "The U" in the lead paragraph and then the subsequent dispute over how it should be referred to in the lead paragraph. He wouldn't take "commonly referred" for whatever reason, even though that text had been in the lead paragraph for years, especially when he stated he wanted to change the policy concerning the aliases in lead paragraphs of University articles.—] (]) 18:58, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:58, 20 October 2009

Agree with summary and suggested recourse

Having also been involved with periodic edits to University of Miami and related pages, I have found Racepacket's edits to often be done without reaching sufficient consensus with other editors. The edits have often been questionable and even controversial. Would be more constructive if Racepacket's changes are first addressed on discussion page, as proposed on this request for comment. MiamiDolphins3 (talk) 23:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

You can support various things on this request for comment page in addition to making comments on its talk page, such as certifying or agreeing.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:16, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Question

Under which policies are "verbosity" and "lack of knowledge" considered violations of wikipedia policy? Soxwon (talk) 23:07, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Writing a hell of a lot to hide what is meant by the user was something that was brought up in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William M. Connolley#Abd’s style of discussion. It was found that it is disruptive to write so much that other users did not want to read it all to reply to it. And showing an utter lack of knowledge of an article's subject and acting disruptively on it is problematic. I also had no other place to list the AFD.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:11, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Acting disruptively and showing a "lack of knowledge" are two different things. Are those two things really necessary? Soxwon (talk) 23:16, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

His writing way too much such that no one can understand his point of view is necessary to address, as is his disruption stemming from his lack of knowledge of the subject matter.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Reply to comment by Soxwon (from User talkpage)

The issue is not with the edits to the Miami football page but a general disruption with it and related articles as a whole. The peacock terms within the articles are generally stated by the references used to cite the statements being made.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

The peacock terms should then be used with quotes so that it is clear that they are supported by neutral sources and aren't copyvios or editor hyperbole. The evidence listed at the the Miami U football page does seem to be legitimate, which is why I'm confused as to how this can be further "disruption." Glancing through the Miami talkpage, yes he did nitpick and edit war and that should be addressed, though I think some of his points were dismissed a little too out of hand. Soxwon (talk) 23:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that on the few occasions when does voice a legitimate concern and that concern is subsequently addressed, he'll obstinately insist that the new edit is still not acceptable for some new, contrived reason. It's like playing whack-a-mole. The History section at Miami Hurricanes football has been completely rewritten from scratch (with the exception of the final three subsections), the article features over 60 different sources, and alleged "peacock" words and phrases like "whopping" and "one of the most historic" have been eliminated...and yet he's still starting fires about the most inane, trifling matters. He's impossible to work with, because he's not content and he won't stop unless he gets every...single...edit...he wants. On the talk pages, he disregards consensus, he deliberately mischaracterizes the substance of discussions and will claim someone agreed with him when they wrote the express opposite, and when a discussion doesn't turn out the way he wants, he simply adds another new section about the same issues that had been previously discussed and acts as if they are being broached anew. And, as Ryulong stated above, he is, either by calculation or nature, amazingly long-winded: after reading his lengthy communiques (which he often copies from an editor's talk page and re-pastes, word-for-word, to the article talk page), once is left even more confused than before about his "concerns" and what it will take to mollify him. What's more, he does all this at seemingly every University of Miami-related article on Misplaced Pages. It's all incredibly tiresome, and that seems to be the point: his strategy is one of attrition. He tries to make himself as big a nuisance as possible on as many pages as possible, hoping that those who oppose his edits lose interest and let him do as he wants.-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 03:46, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

As a general practice, I leave comments about an article on the talk page of the article. In that manner, it allows all interested editors to follow the discussion. I have made an exception for User PassionoftheDamon, because when I posted comments or questions on the article talk page, he has ignored them and has not responded from the very start. So, I tried to post comments on his user talk page, (e.g. ) and he deleted them without response. So, I reposted the deleted ones on the article talk page.

If a peacock term is well-sourced, I generally phrase the sentence to attribute it to the source, rather than to Misplaced Pages. However, I do check the sources and have objected if the source does not support the claim.

As to the history section, the October 1 version had severe WP:BOOSTERISM problems, which I tried to fix with edits that were immediately reverted. Several people had noted the copyright violation on the talk page. I finally checked it out and applied the {{copyvio}} template, which says we stop editing the page and use a subpage to develop a replacement. An administrator is then supposed to compare the two before authorizing moving the subpage back to the article. User PassionoftheDamon removed the template and the link to the subpage. I then spent an hour and a half salvaging the non-infringing portions of the history and writing a well sourced replacement, only to have User:PassionoftheDaman blank all of that out without comment or explanation. I do not want to get my way on "every...single...edit...I want." I want reasoned discussion and am trying to apply Misplaced Pages policies. User Ryulong and I talked through a number of differences on University of Miami, but User PassionoftheDamon refuses to discuss his edits with anyone. When I put a {{fact}} tag on a sentence, he will delete it without adding any source. When he does not respond on the talk page, I finally have to delete the unsourced sentence to get him to finally add a reference to the sentence. When he does go back to add sources, he not bother to note that he found the source in the talk page discussion about the lack of sources. I would like to have a respectful, civil dialog with User:PassionoftheDamon as I do with most other Misplaced Pages editors, but his style is to revert everything and perhaps go back later with his own changes. A search of the Miami Hurricanes football history and talk page shows that this has been a problem for some time before I even started editing that page. I want to encourage Misplaced Pages editors and have actively recruited people to edit Misplaced Pages. I suspect that User PassionoftheDamon is projecting his own tactics on me when he claims "It's all incredibly tiresome, and that seems to be the point: his strategy is one of attrition. He tries to make himself as big a nuisance as possible on as many pages as possible, hoping that those who oppose his edits lose interest and let him do as he wants." As to his other concerns, I will respond to them in my main response. Racepacket (talk) 16:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Madcoverboy's view

There are users without any sort of conflict of interest who still oppose his edits. I've given this multiple opportunities for outside views to be given, but nothing was ever done. It's fine that he wants to make these articles neutral and provide better sources. It is just that when he is challenged and consensus is against him, he continues to push his point of view and edits, claiming that he has the consensus to make the changes. This is what has to end. The regular editors of University of Miami (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and its related articles are all tired of clarifying things to Racepacket when he is very clearly wrong, such as in the dispute over the inclusion of "The U" in the lead paragraph and then the subsequent dispute over how it should be referred to in the lead paragraph. He wouldn't take "commonly referred" for whatever reason, even though that text had been in the lead paragraph for years, especially when he stated he wanted to change the policy concerning the aliases in lead paragraphs of University articles.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 18:58, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:23, 17 October 2009 editRacepacket (talk \| contribs)16,693 edits →Reply to comment by Soxwon (from User talkpage)← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:58, 20 October 2009 edit undoRyulong (talk \| contribs)218,132 edits →Reply to Madcoverboy's view: new sectionNext edit →
Line 21:		Line 21:

	:::As to the history section, the October 1 version had severe WP:BOOSTERISM problems, which I tried to fix with edits that were immediately reverted. Several people had noted the copyright violation on the talk page. I finally checked it out and applied the {{tl\|copyvio}} template, which says we stop editing the page and use a subpage to develop a replacement. An administrator is then supposed to compare the two before authorizing moving the subpage back to the article. User PassionoftheDamon removed the template and the link to the subpage. I then spent an hour and a half salvaging the non-infringing portions of the history and writing a well sourced replacement, only to have User:PassionoftheDaman . I do not want to get my way on "every...single...edit...I want." I want reasoned discussion and am trying to apply Misplaced Pages policies. User Ryulong and I talked through a number of differences on ], but User PassionoftheDamon refuses to discuss his edits with anyone. When I put a {{tl\|fact}} tag on a sentence, he will delete it without adding any source. When he does not respond on the talk page, I finally have to delete the unsourced sentence to get him to finally add a reference to the sentence. When he does go back to add sources, he not bother to note that he found the source in the talk page discussion about the lack of sources. I would like to have a respectful, civil dialog with User:PassionoftheDamon as I do with most other Misplaced Pages editors, but his style is to revert everything and perhaps go back later with his own changes. A search of the ] history and talk page shows that this has been a problem for some time before I even started editing that page. I want to encourage Misplaced Pages editors and have actively recruited people to edit Misplaced Pages. I suspect that User PassionoftheDamon is projecting his own tactics on me when he claims "It's all incredibly tiresome, and that seems to be the point: his strategy is one of attrition. He tries to make himself as big a nuisance as possible on as many pages as possible, hoping that those who oppose his edits lose interest and let him do as he wants." As to his other concerns, I will respond to them in my main response. ] (]) 16:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)		:::As to the history section, the October 1 version had severe WP:BOOSTERISM problems, which I tried to fix with edits that were immediately reverted. Several people had noted the copyright violation on the talk page. I finally checked it out and applied the {{tl\|copyvio}} template, which says we stop editing the page and use a subpage to develop a replacement. An administrator is then supposed to compare the two before authorizing moving the subpage back to the article. User PassionoftheDamon removed the template and the link to the subpage. I then spent an hour and a half salvaging the non-infringing portions of the history and writing a well sourced replacement, only to have User:PassionoftheDaman . I do not want to get my way on "every...single...edit...I want." I want reasoned discussion and am trying to apply Misplaced Pages policies. User Ryulong and I talked through a number of differences on ], but User PassionoftheDamon refuses to discuss his edits with anyone. When I put a {{tl\|fact}} tag on a sentence, he will delete it without adding any source. When he does not respond on the talk page, I finally have to delete the unsourced sentence to get him to finally add a reference to the sentence. When he does go back to add sources, he not bother to note that he found the source in the talk page discussion about the lack of sources. I would like to have a respectful, civil dialog with User:PassionoftheDamon as I do with most other Misplaced Pages editors, but his style is to revert everything and perhaps go back later with his own changes. A search of the ] history and talk page shows that this has been a problem for some time before I even started editing that page. I want to encourage Misplaced Pages editors and have actively recruited people to edit Misplaced Pages. I suspect that User PassionoftheDamon is projecting his own tactics on me when he claims "It's all incredibly tiresome, and that seems to be the point: his strategy is one of attrition. He tries to make himself as big a nuisance as possible on as many pages as possible, hoping that those who oppose his edits lose interest and let him do as he wants." As to his other concerns, I will respond to them in my main response. ] (]) 16:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

			== Reply to Madcoverboy's view ==

			There are users without any sort of conflict of interest who still oppose his edits. I've given this multiple opportunities for outside views to be given, but nothing was ever done. It's fine that he wants to make these articles neutral and provide better sources. It is just that when he is challenged and consensus is against him, he continues to push his point of view and edits, claiming that he has the consensus to make the changes. This is what has to end. The regular editors of {{la\|University of Miami}} and its related articles are all tired of clarifying things to Racepacket when he is very clearly wrong, such as in the dispute over the inclusion of "The U" in the lead paragraph and then the subsequent dispute over how it should be referred to in the lead paragraph. He wouldn't take "commonly referred" for whatever reason, even though that text had been in the lead paragraph for years, especially when he stated he wanted to change the policy concerning the aliases in lead paragraphs of University articles.—] (]) 18:58, 20 October 2009 (UTC)