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Revision as of 11:25, 20 October 2009 editPedroPVZ (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers15,271 edits →Page moves← Previous edit Revision as of 11:38, 20 October 2009 edit undoTrueColour (talk | contribs)4,035 edits →Page moves: Municipalities are the longest lasting(?) divisions in Portugal, they deserve clear addressing and articles.Next edit →
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::::::Your moves have the same problem. ''Resende Municipality, Portugal'' is one way to distinguish the municipal government from the old town; but it is not the natural and idiomatic way. (Probably the best would be to have one article for both, and differentiate.) ] <small>]</small> 00:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC) ::::::Your moves have the same problem. ''Resende Municipality, Portugal'' is one way to distinguish the municipal government from the old town; but it is not the natural and idiomatic way. (Probably the best would be to have one article for both, and differentiate.) ] <small>]</small> 00:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
*Why are you moving Portuguese city and town articles to "something municipality"? Even if a municipality contains other towns or parishes out of the cities or towns, those are just "honorary status", they dont have any administrative relevance, every municipality is governed by a town hall or city hall. Using the same order of ideas, every article about every city in the world should have a ... municipality article. it doesnt make sense. only parishes have administrative relevance, but can be in or out of the city borders, because Portuguese law does not state limits to cities, just municipalities, so the city limits changes with development.-] (]) 11:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC) *Why are you moving Portuguese city and town articles to "something municipality"? Even if a municipality contains other towns or parishes out of the cities or towns, those are just "honorary status", they dont have any administrative relevance, every municipality is governed by a town hall or city hall. Using the same order of ideas, every article about every city in the world should have a ... municipality article. it doesnt make sense. only parishes have administrative relevance, but can be in or out of the city borders, because Portuguese law does not state limits to cities, just municipalities, so the city limits changes with development.-] (]) 11:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
:Please see: ]. Main reason is the articles are all not in a very good state and they lag behind other WPs. We need organisation. City/town is NOT the same as municipality. Look on a map with municipality borders to find out that municipalities are much larger often than cities. Sometimes the reverse is true. Municipalities are the longest lasting(?) divisions in Portugal, they deserve clear addressing and articles. ] (]) 11:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 11:38, 20 October 2009

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Postal codes in Israel

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Re: Postal codes in Croatia

Well, I introduced the SVG because I thought the article could use an illustration, but it's rather unhelpful at the moment, as you noticed yourself. Superimposed telephone number prefixes would do the trick. It could be done with a software that is capable of editing SVGs. There's Inkscape, for example, but I haven't used it. GregorB (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Page moves

Do you have consensus for these? --John (talk) 18:49, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

what do you mean? TrueColour (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Look my latest move Manzanares -> Manzanares River. After the move I looked what links to Manzanares.
TrueColour (talk) 19:32, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I also have a question about some of these. For example, you moved Seia to Seia Municipality, while Seia is a municipality, is its name really Seia Municipality? If it is not, then the move needs to be fixed. Also, what is the argument that this move makes sense with regard to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC? Finally, why was a move needed when the first sentence stated "Seia is a city and a municipality ..." Thanks, 66.57.4.150 (talk) 00:53, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by "really"? The municipality is in Portugal, so the name of course is not "Seia Municipality". Same with all the articles names in Districts of Portugal. The districts are not "really" named "District". You say If it is not, then the move needs to be fixed. - Please proceed.
You asked: why was a move needed when the first sentence stated "Seia is a city and a municipality ..." - The move was not "needed". One could also have split by creating a new article by hand at the move target and then copy paste. But since the article was primarily about the municipality I choose to move and then start an article about the city. I fixed the intro at Seia Municipality, see what it says now:
Also see some related disambiguation between the city and the municipality:
If you find more of these and if you like please help fixing. In Portugal city/town (cidade/vila) is almost always different from the concelho/municipio, see details in the article Municipalities of Portugal. With regard to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC - what is your suggestion for the naming of the municipality articles? There is a big overlap in names of parishes, municipalities, towns/cities and sometimes other features. Adding to this overlap are topics from outside Portugal, esp. Brazil but also other Romance language place names ot even Germanic ones, e.g.: Mora Municipality. TrueColour (talk) 11:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

True Colour, please revert your municipality page moves and content removals, this was done without any discussion or consensus. The current format we have for all Portuguese municipalities is that in a single article we have material on the whole municipality, including its town itself. In some urban municipalities, it doesn't even make sense to split the notion of city and its municipality, such as Lisbon and Porto. As for all others, the material gathered in an article does not justify splitting - we have tens of such articles with less than a few sentences of contents. I agree that if an article on a specific municipality gets sufficiently expanded, such as Sintra, it will make sense splitting between Sintra (town) and Sintra (municipality). But not at the moment. Your district moves are also against the the manual of style, please move back. And in the future, please discuss such changes before making such mass unilateral moves. Thanks. Regards, Húsönd 17:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Where is the place to reach a consensus on that? I see nothing at WP:PORTUGAL TrueColour (talk) 18:31, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
On this matter, probably WP:MOS-PT, WP:RFC, the talk page of a major article on a Portuguese town, the talk page of Portugal itself, The Village Pump, the talk page of WP:MOS, etc. There are many places, the best is to create a discussion somewhere and then go to these pages and place a notice saying that a discussion is happening elsewhere on the matter. That suffices to attract interested parties. But running a mass move without discussing it is a terrible idea. It creates hundreds of moves to be reverted which is quite time consuming, especially if other people have edited after the move. Please put everything back and then improvements can be discussed. I further bring to your attention that titles such as "Braga Municipality" or "Braga District" are against the Manual of Style. The subject type for geographical entries goes in parenthesis - "Braga (municipality)" or "Braga (district)". Please let me know if you can revert all by yourself of if you need assistance. But the quicker it is done, the easier it will be. Thanks. Regards, Húsönd 18:50, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
See Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (Portuguese-related articles)#Geography - Municipalities. The MoS says at Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Administrative subdivisions "if one district in a country is moved from X to X District, it is worth discussing whether all districts should be moved" i.e. it specifically says that X District is ok. TrueColour (talk) 20:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
That's just a sentence explaining its point, there's no convention about format there. Húsönd 21:04, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
If they used it I guess this format is not against MoS. I didn't find that the MoS says that Somename District is not allowed. Together with Misplaced Pages:MOS#Geographical items "Places should generally be referred to consistently using the same name as in the title of their article" I think Somename District and Somename Municipality is just the best and the most straight forward. TrueColour (talk) 21:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
WP:NPA - one comment deleted. Thank you for understanding. And maybe you look how the districts are called in Portuguese? TrueColour (talk) 23:28, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Anyone else who wants to contribute is welcome at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (Portuguese-related articles)#Geography - Municipalities. TrueColour (talk) 23:34, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
No personal attacks were made; such unfounded charges are all too common. But this does suggest what the real problem is: when TrueColour has time to spare from reversion, he might read WP:NCGN and find that, this being the English Misplaced Pages, what matters to us is what these towns are called in English. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Why are you attacking me again? Why shall I read WP:NCGN to find what the towns are called, when I asked for districts? And in Portugal Portuguese is spoken and when you translate it you end up with X District or word by word District of X - you never end up with "X (district)", because the class identifier "district" is part of the name. Maybe instead of harassing users you go and help with content. Thank you. I really don't know why you involve without any positive contribution. TrueColour (talk) 23:59, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I didn't attack you a first time; I said you were wrong on our practices - as you are mistaken in English usage. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
But I use English. Where not? TrueColour (talk) 00:10, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Not fluently, nor correctly, as with your question itself. Where didn't I? or Where is it not English? are the idioms. English cannot be written out of a dictionary, any more than Portuguese.
Your moves have the same problem. Resende Municipality, Portugal is one way to distinguish the municipal government from the old town; but it is not the natural and idiomatic way. (Probably the best would be to have one article for both, and differentiate.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Why are you moving Portuguese city and town articles to "something municipality"? Even if a municipality contains other towns or parishes out of the cities or towns, those are just "honorary status", they dont have any administrative relevance, every municipality is governed by a town hall or city hall. Using the same order of ideas, every article about every city in the world should have a ... municipality article. it doesnt make sense. only parishes have administrative relevance, but can be in or out of the city borders, because Portuguese law does not state limits to cities, just municipalities, so the city limits changes with development.-Pedro (talk) 11:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Please see: Talk:Municipalities_of_Portugal#Improve_the_overall_quality_of_Portugal-related_geographical_articles. Main reason is the articles are all not in a very good state and they lag behind other WPs. We need organisation. City/town is NOT the same as municipality. Look on a map with municipality borders to find out that municipalities are much larger often than cities. Sometimes the reverse is true. Municipalities are the longest lasting(?) divisions in Portugal, they deserve clear addressing and articles. TrueColour (talk) 11:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)