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Argentina

Graphic is out of date, Argentina's inflation nowadays is between 5% and 10% (source: INDEC, national institute for statistics and census). If someone could change that, I would be very pleased.

I propose that the term erode as it relates to inflation should be changed to destroy in the article.

I propose that the term erode as it relates to inflation should be changed to destroy in the article. PennySeven (talk) 16:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System

High inflation can destroy an economy and result in enormous hardship for everyone involved.

Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis We might begin by asking ourselves, "Is inflation really such a threat? Can it actually destroy us?"

BNP Paribas However, rising inflation combined with decreasing economic activity will destroy asset values.

Citibank Inflation destroys value.

Washington Post By problem, he means rising prices that destroy the value of money.

Asian Times Hyperinflation is fatal because hedging against it causes market failures to destroy wealth. Normally, when markets are functioning, unhedged inflation favors debtors by reducing the value of liabilities they owe to creditors. Instead of destroying wealth, unhedged inflation merely transfers wealth from creditors to debtors.

The Free Library Inflation destroys the value of money and hence of savings accounts.

Inflation destroys consumption.

How Inflation Will Destroy Home Owners Equity.

Don’t Let Inflation Destroy the Benefits of your Long Term Care Insurance.

Don't Let Inflation Destroy Your Pension.

How inflation destroys wealth.

However, inflation destroys this process. Inflation destroys real wage levels, i.e. productive capability. It favors those who have large debts, and it destroys the value of accumulated assets. It is unjust. Those who have over-borrowed see their debts effectively forgiven. Those who were prudent and have saved see their assets destroyed.

This is nothing short of an express policy to destroy our money by inflation.

PennySeven (talk) 16:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I think this belongs here on the Inflation article talk page.

Inflation (again)

I've just noticed what you have been doing on the Inflation page this last few weeks. I'm here to inform you first, but it's my intention to change back many of the things you have changed. You should know that many of the revisions you've made :

1. Are against consensus. Many editors have reverted similar edits by you before.
2. Violates neutral wording, which is a basic policy for Misplaced Pages.
3. Is not consistent with proper weight - it overemphasizes issues not mentioned in a standard textbook presentation on inflation.

I'm going to ask that you do not edit war with me on this. The outcome eventually will not be much different, but it will cause much wikidrama if I have to call in the members of Wikiproject Economics to review the article.

thanks, LK (talk) 13:43, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I think this belongs here on the Inflation article talk page.PennySeven (talk) 13:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Consensus: you seem to be the only one disagreeing on all of the edits.

Neutral wording: I refer you to my advice on the talk page that I am going to change erode to destroy. Only you disagree with everything.

Please note: Misplaced Pages is not a textbook.

I am not going to edit war with you or anyone. I am very much offended that you use that term.

I am also very much offended that you start this discussion immediately threatening wikidrama.

I am very much offended that you use the term wikidrama.

I am fully willing to dicuss this in normal terms: not using terms like edit war and wikidrama.

I also request you not to threaten me. I am very much offended with your threat.

PennySeven (talk) 14:08, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I request that you confirm and state that I am not in an edit war with you or anyone.

I request that you confirm and state that I have simply edited this article without any drama till you intervened

PennySeven (talk) 14:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I wish to state very clearly that I a very offended in the way you are grossly abusing me. PennySeven (talk) 14:23, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I object very strongly to any more threats or false accusations from you.PennySeven (talk) 14:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I ask you politely not to threaten me again.PennySeven (talk) 14:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I wish to state that I have not reverted or deleted one of your edits regarding this matter. Please prove me wrong. If you can not, then please retract your nuances that I am about to edit war with you. I request that specifically.PennySeven (talk) 14:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Please also confirm that you fully agree that disagreement is not automatically edit war.PennySeven (talk) 14:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I did not mean to imply that any edit warring has yet taken place. I wanted to discuss with you first privately to avoid exactly the sort of drama now on-going. I confirm that you have not edit warred with me over this issue (since I have not yet made any edits). That Misplaced Pages is not a textbook is not an excuse to have it read non-neutrally with weights not consistent with the best academic sources (ie. university published books and peer reviewed journals). Textbooks, handbooks and other encyclopedia are good reference guides as to what is appropriate in an article. I will now revert to the consensus version of the lead with neutral language from a few weeks ago. I would appreciate it if you do not revert back. Thank you, LK (talk) 15:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

“The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it.”

John Kenneth Galbraith , economist, author, Money: Whence it came, where it went - 1975, p15

I do not think Wikipdia should be part of the crime of disguising the truth by making things complex. Misplaced Pages is by the people for the people, and should explain things simply so everyone can understand. Inflation is one of those issues that needs to be explained simple. Many text books says inflation is rising prices, but it does not make sense that the price of an icecream in Portland should rise at the same rate as a loaf of bread in Washington for any other reason then an increase in the money supply causing more money to chase the same amount of goods, forcing the market to raise prices. An increase in the money supply is therefore the simplest and most direct definition that does not try to pass blame from the people who control the money supply.--92.235.234.50 (talk) 17:15, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

False and untrue statements in the article that can not be corrected because their correction is banned by Lawrencekhoo - the owner of this artcle.

"Increases in the price level (inflation) erodes the real value of money (the functional currency) and other items with an underlying monetary nature, that are priced in terms of money (e.g. loans, bonds, fixed pension payments). However, inflation has no effect on the real value of non-monetary items, items without a fixed price in terms of money (e.g. goods and commodities, like cars, gold, real estate)."

The above two statements from the article text contain completely false and untrue items which cannot be corrected because their correction would be labelled edit warring by Lawrencekhoo. He has stated: "I would appreciate it if you do not revert back. Thank you, LK (talk)"

So, they cannot be corrected. It will be called edit warring. So, there is nothing we can do about it. They have to stay wrong in the article. I am not going to beg Lawrencekhoo or ask his special permission to allow me to correct these blatantly wrong items. I have had enough of his abuse.PennySeven (talk) 19:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Lawrencenkhoo please stop vandalizing the Inflation article removing entire referenced paragraphs that no-one except you disagreed to.

Please stop vandalizing the Inflation article removing entire referenced paragraphs that no-one except you disagreed to.PennySeven (talk) 19:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You are not suppose to own the inflation article as it is evident you think you do when you freely vandalize it as you do.PennySeven (talk) 19:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Who gave you the right to ban me from editing the Inflation article with threats of being labelled as edit warring when some things are blatantly wrong in the article and now you have to be begged and asked special permission to correct these blantant errors?PennySeven (talk) 19:33, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Where do you get the right to freely vandalize the Inflation article as you did?PennySeven (talk) 19:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You have now effectively killed discussion on the Inflation article. Any disagreemet with you will be called edit warring as you clearly stated. PennySeven (talk) 19:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I will not correct your blatant errors.PennySeven (talk) 19:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Lawrencenkhoo you are not suppose to own this article

Lawrencenkhoo you are not suppose to own this article.PennySeven (talk) 19:43, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I see you have it on your list as one of the articles created by you??????PennySeven (talk) 20:53, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

By chance I noted that you have 166 edits to the Inflation article. I have 371. I make no claims and I do not wish to make any claims about my contributions to the Inflation article.PennySeven (talk) 20:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I propose - again- that the term erode as it relates to inflation should be changed to destroy in the article.

I propose - again - that the term erode as it relates to inflation should be changed to destroy in the article.

The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System

High inflation can destroy an economy and result in enormous hardship for everyone involved.

Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis We might begin by asking ourselves, "Is inflation really such a threat? Can it actually destroy us?"

BNP Paribas However, rising inflation combined with decreasing economic activity will destroy asset values.

Citibank Inflation destroys value.

Washington Post By problem, he means rising prices that destroy the value of money.

Asian Times Hyperinflation is fatal because hedging against it causes market failures to destroy wealth. Normally, when markets are functioning, unhedged inflation favors debtors by reducing the value of liabilities they owe to creditors. Instead of destroying wealth, unhedged inflation merely transfers wealth from creditors to debtors.

The Free Library Inflation destroys the value of money and hence of savings accounts.

Inflation destroys consumption.

How Inflation Will Destroy Home Owners Equity.

Don’t Let Inflation Destroy the Benefits of your Long Term Care Insurance.

Don't Let Inflation Destroy Your Pension.

How inflation destroys wealth.

However, inflation destroys this process. Inflation destroys real wage levels, i.e. productive capability. It favors those who have large debts, and it destroys the value of accumulated assets. It is unjust. Those who have over-borrowed see their debts effectively forgiven. Those who were prudent and have saved see their assets destroyed.

This is nothing short of an express policy to destroy our money by inflation.

PennySeven (talk) 19:48, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Several of those clearly refer to destroying something other than the value of money, and several are ambiguous. CRETOG8(t/c) 20:01, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Technically I simply said change the word erode to destroy as far as inflation is concerned. You agree that the word used is destroy and not erode.PennySeven (talk) 20:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Erode is the same as destroy. Destroy is more forceful - more to the point: we all know what destroy means.PennySeven (talk) 20:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I am also 100% sure that you will agree that discussing the matter is not edit warring - the very abused term on Misplaced Pages. PennySeven (talk) 20:16, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Zimbabwe´s ZimDollar´s real value has completely disappeared. There is no ZimDollar today. Shall we say that the ZimDollar´s real value has just been a little bit eroded by billions of percent of hyperinflation or has it been completely destroyed?PennySeven (talk) 20:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

A number of those on the list are not reliable sources, many being self published sources. But that aside, the first quote shows the problem here: "High inflation can destroy an economy and result in enormous hardship for everyone involved." The key word is "can" rather than destroy - yes, this is a possibility, but to then say that this can be used to support does destroy, as your edits to the article stated, is a problem. A better description would be "inflation erodes the value of money, and can destroy an economy". At any rate, a quick search on Google seems to come up with an awful lot of articles using "erodes" instead of "destroys", leading to the suggestion that there may be a bit of cherry picking going on here. I'd rather stick to the wording from texts and peer-reviewed papers, given the dispute. - Bilby (talk) 21:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

May I ask whether you agree that erode and destroy is the same thing? When something is eroded it is exactly the same as being destroyed. There is no difference. When 10% of something is eroded it means that 10% of that item has been destroyed. Do you agree on that? Or do you feel there is a difference?PennySeven (talk) 22:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

With inflation there is no doubt that it actually destroys real value. It is not a case that it can. It destroys real value. It is not a case that maybe it can. There is no maybe. When there is inflation, real value is destroyed in money and all monetary items.PennySeven (talk) 22:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

No, erode and destroy have slightly different meanings, in my view. Erode damages, and this can lead to something being destroyed, but doesn't necessarily do so. Thus inflation may damage or alter the real value of money, but money still retains value. It has the potential to destroy the real value, but it doesn't necessarily happen - otherwise the situation in Zimbabwe would be the norm. - Bilby (talk) 01:34, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You are in fact mistaken in the above. With inflation erode is always the same as destroy. 2% erosion in the real value of any currency is always the same as 2% destruction of the real value of that currency. It it is impossible to recover the erosion of the real value of a currency during inflation. Yes, inflation alters and damages the real value of money, but, for good. Yes, money still retains value, but, for always and ever a lower real value during inflation that can never be recovered during inflation. So it is forever, permanent and for an indefinite period of time during inflation. Destroy does not mean destroy 100%. 3% annual inflation only destroy 3% of the real value of money during a year. When that carries on for long enough, it is mathematically logical that the money´s real value will eventually be 100% destroyed during indefinite inflation. In fact, all the legal tender bank notes and coins in the world today will one day be 100% worthless during indefinite inflation. That is obvious to anyone who understands cumulative inflation. Thank you for your comment. I am 100% sure that you do not regard my disagreement with you as edit warring. I also do not see your disagreement with me as edit warring. This is simply a discussion during which all of us learn something new. This is the purpose of this talk page. I also think it is one of the ideas behind Misplaced Pages - to enhance human knowledge about what is already generally accepted. I accept that Misplaced Pages is not about what is true but what is generally accepted. I am convinced that what I stated in this response to your statement is generally accepted. That is what Wikiepedia is about. PennySeven (talk) 15:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Lawrencenkhoo I am waiting for you to ban me for edit warring.

Lawrencenkhoo I am waiting for you to ban me for edit warring.

I disagree with you: that is edit warring.

I am not allowed to disagree with you. I will be banned for edit warring for disagreeing with Lawrencenkhoo who puts back completely wrong and false statements in the article with an edit warring threat if I disagree with him and correct the blatant errors which I will not beg permission from him to correct. They can stay wrong as a tribute to Lawrenchenkhoo´s contribution to this article complete with edit warring threat attached.PennySeven (talk) 19:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Lawrencenkhoo freely vandalized this article with absolute and total impunity.

Lawrencenkhoo did not only revert my edits changing erode to destroy. He also reverted about 100 other edits that have nothing to do with erode or destroy.

Lawrencenkhoo apparently has the right to vandalize this article as he wishes. He manages this with his threat of labelling any disagreement edit warring.

Obviously I can reput everything that has nothing to do with the erode question. PennySeven (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Obviously he will state that is edit warring: I disagree with the know-all of inflation. End of story. PennySeven (talk) 22:32, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Lawrencenkhoo this article is now all yours.

Lawrencenkhoo this article is now all yours. Mess it up all you want. You won´t find me editing this article again or this talk page.

I have better things to do than endure your abuse.PennySeven (talk) 22:34, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

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