| Revision as of 02:07, 8 November 2009 editSmallbones (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Pending changes reviewers59,545 edits Keep← Previous edit | Revision as of 01:27, 9 November 2009 edit undoFifelfoo (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers13,796 edits →Mass killings under Communist regimesNext edit → | ||
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| *'''Keep''' pr. ] and ]. + considering the sources provided in the article the claim of ] has no basis to it. Regarding the arguments given about "far left" and "Eastern European mailing list", I suggest to ] remove such inappropriate speculations from this discussion page. As someone who has contributed to the article in good faith and by considering myself a liberal, and have never been part of any mailing lists, I find such suggestions that the contributors to this article are part of some kind "far right Eastern European mailing list" conspiracy not offensive but flat out ridiculous.--] (]) 01:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC) | *'''Keep''' pr. ] and ]. + considering the sources provided in the article the claim of ] has no basis to it. Regarding the arguments given about "far left" and "Eastern European mailing list", I suggest to ] remove such inappropriate speculations from this discussion page. As someone who has contributed to the article in good faith and by considering myself a liberal, and have never been part of any mailing lists, I find such suggestions that the contributors to this article are part of some kind "far right Eastern European mailing list" conspiracy not offensive but flat out ridiculous.--] (]) 01:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Keep''' lots of good sources for this article - and there seems to be some sort of campaign to delete the sources in the article: some folks are trying to politicize the article. I too, consider myself a liberal, and am not on any mailing list. The claims of synthesis are ridiculous, even 1 source could be good enough for notability here - see the ], published by Harvard University Press. And yes, there will be claims that this source, and many similar sources are not good enough, but frankly I don't buy that nonsense. Finally, there must be some limit to nominations such as this one, and subsidiary deletion nominations such as ], before it looks like simple denialism combined with harassment. ] (]) 02:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC) | *'''Keep''' lots of good sources for this article - and there seems to be some sort of campaign to delete the sources in the article: some folks are trying to politicize the article. I too, consider myself a liberal, and am not on any mailing list. The claims of synthesis are ridiculous, even 1 source could be good enough for notability here - see the ], published by Harvard University Press. And yes, there will be claims that this source, and many similar sources are not good enough, but frankly I don't buy that nonsense. Finally, there must be some limit to nominations such as this one, and subsidiary deletion nominations such as ], before it looks like simple denialism combined with harassment. ] (]) 02:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Delete''': COATRACK, SYNTHESIS => NON NOTABLE, no such research object. I have tried my damned hardest to find multiple society (ie: comparative) studies of genocide/mass-killing/etc that actually claim that there is a unique feature to Communism that causes these. ''The Black Book on Communism'' only conducts a multi-societal analysis of genocide in its deeply flawed foreword and introduction, where it claims Communism is Criminal and Not Christian (hard to believe, but true). This does not meet the academic standards of comparative sociology. (From reading Conquest's chapter on the Soviet Union, Conquest looks great, but its a single society study without any generalised claims about the causes across societies for communist mass killing). On close analysis Valentino produces a thematic catagory, linking Communist mass killings by the fact they were... Communist... as a subset of politically motivated mass killing in order to strengthen social control by a small elite. (ie: Vallentino's type is "politically motivated mass killing"). Anton Weiss-Wendt's analysis of Lemkin shows Lemkin to be devoid of scholarly contribution on the topic, again, like Vallentino, Lemkin's category is a superset, and Communism is not a cause. George Watson's catagory is "socialism" which is, on inspection, "Anything other than British Liberalism of the Type Especially Favoured by George Watson." There is no academic object of study to support this article; but merely a political interest in claiming a generalised condition of communist criminality. The individual instances of criminality are supportable, and should exist, as "Mass killing / Genocide / Whatever in the Soviet Union" "Mass killing / Genocide / Whatever in China" "Mass killing / Genocide / Whatever in ". ] (]) 01:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 01:27, 9 November 2009
Mass killings under Communist regimes
AfDs for this article (as Communist genocide):- Mass killings under Communist regimes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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This article is entirely original research that synthesizes unconnected theories about Communist government in different countries not substantiated in any academic literature. It was originally created by banned editor Joklolk and has been contributed to by a group that calls itself the Eastern European mailing list and collaborates to insert a far right anti-Russian bias into ethnic articles. The Four Deuces (talk) 01:10, 8 November 2009 (UTC) The Four Deuces (talk) 01:10, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Delete I have been following this in the background since it was called Communist Genocide (see box above). Every AfD ended in no consensus with an attached promise to improve the article. As the comments by this AfD's nominator show, that hasn't happened apparently. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 01:18, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Keep pr. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Communist genocide and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Communist genocide (2nd nomination). + considering the sources provided in the article the claim of original research has no basis to it. Regarding the arguments given about "far left" and "Eastern European mailing list", I suggest to The Four Deuces remove such inappropriate speculations from this discussion page. As someone who has contributed to the article in good faith and by considering myself a liberal, and have never been part of any mailing lists, I find such suggestions that the contributors to this article are part of some kind "far right Eastern European mailing list" conspiracy not offensive but flat out ridiculous.--Termer (talk) 01:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Keep lots of good sources for this article - and there seems to be some sort of campaign to delete the sources in the article: some folks are trying to politicize the article. I too, consider myself a liberal, and am not on any mailing list. The claims of synthesis are ridiculous, even 1 source could be good enough for notability here - see the Black Book of Communism, published by Harvard University Press. And yes, there will be claims that this source, and many similar sources are not good enough, but frankly I don't buy that nonsense. Finally, there must be some limit to nominations such as this one, and subsidiary deletion nominations such as Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, before it looks like simple denialism combined with harassment. Smallbones (talk) 02:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Delete: COATRACK, SYNTHESIS => NON NOTABLE, no such research object. I have tried my damned hardest to find multiple society (ie: comparative) studies of genocide/mass-killing/etc that actually claim that there is a unique feature to Communism that causes these. The Black Book on Communism only conducts a multi-societal analysis of genocide in its deeply flawed foreword and introduction, where it claims Communism is Criminal and Not Christian (hard to believe, but true). This does not meet the academic standards of comparative sociology. (From reading Conquest's chapter on the Soviet Union, Conquest looks great, but its a single society study without any generalised claims about the causes across societies for communist mass killing). On close analysis Valentino produces a thematic catagory, linking Communist mass killings by the fact they were... Communist... as a subset of politically motivated mass killing in order to strengthen social control by a small elite. (ie: Vallentino's type is "politically motivated mass killing"). Anton Weiss-Wendt's analysis of Lemkin shows Lemkin to be devoid of scholarly contribution on the topic, again, like Vallentino, Lemkin's category is a superset, and Communism is not a cause. George Watson's catagory is "socialism" which is, on inspection, "Anything other than British Liberalism of the Type Especially Favoured by George Watson." There is no academic object of study to support this article; but merely a political interest in claiming a generalised condition of communist criminality. The individual instances of criminality are supportable, and should exist, as "Mass killing / Genocide / Whatever in the Soviet Union" "Mass killing / Genocide / Whatever in China" "Mass killing / Genocide / Whatever in ". Fifelfoo (talk) 01:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC)