Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:35, 8 February 2010

Bulgaria C‑class Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bulgaria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bulgaria on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BulgariaWikipedia:WikiProject BulgariaTemplate:WikiProject BulgariaBulgaria C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

World war II

The article presents forgets a couple of things about the Jews in Bulgaria:

1. ghettos, anti-semitic legislation, forced labour camps, expulsion of Jews who were also citizens of other countries, resettling of Jews from the cities, etc.
2. thousands of Jews from the territories occupied by Bulgaria (Macedonia and Thrace) were sent to the Nazi concentration camps in Poland (www.deathcamps.org/Reinhard/macedonia%20thrace%20transports.html)

bogdan 20:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Did you mean the article omits something? Perhaps you should provide some more sources, this one seams to be overzealous ("Always maintaining its sovereignty and forever opportunistic, Bulgaria had entered the conflict solely for reasons of territorial aggrandisement": woah, this is such a ridiculously naïve statement). Also, it really is debatable if the Jews in the areas that Bulgaria administered during WWII can be considered part of the "history of the Jews in Bulgaria". Plus, it should be noted we're talking not that Macedonia and that Thrace.

And don't forget our government often received direct orders from Nazi Germany and was in most cases not directly responsible for any decisions of that type. In that situation, what we managed to do was a real deed of heroism and valour. Todor→Bozhinov 20:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I would like to read more about ordinary citizens who intervened -- for example, I think I read that farmers blocked transport trains.Jrm2007 18:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I tried to expand somewhat the section as requested by the User:Bogdan, the Israeli IP user and others before. @Bogdangiusca: Unfortunately the link you gave cannot be used as source, but I tried to cover the events you mentioning using other refs that can be accepted. To the Israeli IP user: Your edit was very informative but lacked proper references and thus cannot be included except a part of your last paragraph who has. Please give sources for the rest. If you need help in properly add them late me know. @User:Jrm2007: Also give something more. @User:TodorBozhinov: I disagree, I believe the Aegean Macedonia and Western Thrace was also part of the Bulgaria years before the events since they were officially annexed, but for any case I added a well established source for it.

I will try to expand the chapter a little more, any help or comments will be appreciated. Thanks in advance, --Factuarius (talk) 05:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

@Kostja:Please discuss before revert. The texts you just rv are almost word-by-word from the sources. About the name of the party: But it was in fact the Communist Party, as the very link indicates. Why to mislead the reader? About the number of the remained Jews is not mine, it was there before my edits, possibly by a Bulgarian editor. If you have a more reliable number please put it. No problem --Factuarius (talk) 13:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

You assert that Vicky Tamir stated in her book "Bulgaria and Her Jews: The History of a Dubious Symbiosis" on page 314 that "almost the entire Jewish population was forced to leave Bulgaria". There is no such statement on page 314 or anywhere in the book: . The Jewish virtual library, a far more authoritative source, asserts that Jews were not permitted to leave Bulgaria initially but were latter permitted to go, which the vast majority wanted to do: .

You also assert that on page 246 of "The Bulgarian Jews and the Final Solution" by Chary Frederick, it's stated that "the survival of Bulgarian Jews was due to complex political and social internal struggles, and not because of Bulgarian humanity". This also can't be found on this page or anywhere else in the book .

The Communist party was called Worker's party at the time. Kostja (talk) 15:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I kindly asked you to discuss before revert both here and in your talk page. Not revert *while* discussing. I also told you that if you had difficulties to access the sources I was ready to help you. Unfortunately you continued. Please give a chance to the dialogue. I suppose we are both young , no reason for hurry. Now, about the search you did in Google Books: The books have no preview at all there so it is impossible to find what you want that way. Instead, you can try this book to approach their contents: The Jewish Holocaust: An Annotated Guide to Books in English, Studies in Judaica and the Holocaust, written by Buckley Barry Barrett (a Librarian at the California State University of San Bernardino) It has Google preview and you can see both references you deleted there in the 95 & 96 pages. Please avoid reverts in advance before giving me a chance to explain my edits. Thanks, and I will do the same.

Now about the name of the communist party, indeed had another name then (and for one or two years latter), but you possibly know the reason: It was impossible for a country ally of the Nazi Germany to permit a communist party and that was the case with Bulgaria then. So I find no reason to mislead the readers about the true nature of that party. Since it was the communist party masked with another name, we must call it with its real name. We know that in reality was the communist party of Bulgaria why to continue masking it at 2010? It unmasked itself in 1944 when the Soviets reached Bulgaria. Cannot understand why you insist so much on that. At all. But anyway, if you like we can leave in the fake name and add the real on a parenthesis next to it. Is that OK with you? --Factuarius (talk) 20:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Copyvio

Factuarius, you have infringed the copyright of the Virtual Jewish Library by almost directly copying its article on Bulgaria. While much of the text you have inserted is notable and has its place in the Misplaced Pages article (nobody is denying the existence of a Law for protection of the nation), but we can't afford to include copyrighted text. If you'd like to improve this article, please do so using your own words.

My general opinion, though, is that if Kostja or you would like to write an article about the Holocaust in Bulgaria or Bulgarian Jews during World War II or the Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews + background, all of this text and all of those opinions ought to go there. The Bulgarian Jews article intends to be a summary, and at the moment, the "Bulgarian Jews during World War II" section is too large.

Also, what the hell was with the "smallest Jewish population in Europe"? That's some of the most ridiculous stuff I've ever read. What was the point of it anyway? You clearly have an anti-Bulgarian agenda, so please adhere to WP:NPOV or leave the project. Todor→Bozhinov 07:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

• C-Class Bulgaria articles
• Mid-importance Bulgaria articles
• WikiProject Bulgaria articles