Revision as of 01:38, 27 February 2010 editTiamut (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers31,614 edits →Discussion← Previous edit | Revision as of 01:38, 27 February 2010 edit undoNickCT (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers17,922 edits →DiscussionNext edit → | ||
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Wow Slim. Really disturbing. First you claim I'm a sock puppet, now this? This is obviously a bad faith allegation made by an editor who is trying to WP:OWN an article, and is upset by other editors questioning potential POV statements. Apparently, instead of debating and seeking consensus (as the Al-Durrah talk page will show I have done), Slim prefers to mire people who disagree with her in this kind of frivilous arbitration. This is clearly bad faith, and it's the second time Slim has attempted this kind of shinanigans. |
Wow Slim. Really disturbing. First you claim I'm a sock puppet, now this? This is obviously a bad faith allegation made by an editor who is trying to WP:OWN an article, and is upset by other editors questioning potential POV statements. Apparently, instead of debating and seeking consensus (as the Al-Durrah talk page will show I have done), Slim prefers to mire people who disagree with her in this kind of frivilous arbitration. This is clearly bad faith, and it's the second time Slim has attempted this kind of shinanigans. I think Slim was prompted to do this now as I was ]? ] (]) 19:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC) | ||
:A note on tagging- I think my tagging of ]is inline with ] and specificly ]. I noted this when I tagged, and Slim reverted without discussion or explination. I was actually in the process of consulting admin ] over whether tagging was an appropriate action. If Slim thought my tagging was innappropriate, should she have not at least explained why before reverting? Slim has trouble playing nice with editors who disagree with her. ] (]) 19:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC) | :A note on tagging- I think my tagging of ]is inline with ] and specificly ]. I noted this when I tagged, and Slim reverted without discussion or explination. I was actually in the process of consulting admin ] over whether tagging was an appropriate action. If Slim thought my tagging was innappropriate, should she have not at least explained why before reverting? Slim has trouble playing nice with editors who disagree with her. ] (]) 19:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC) | ||
::Again, another note, I promise this will be last. I want to add on to something Tiamut mentioned re understanding "SlimVirgin's frustration at being challenged over the content of an article she worked hard to bring up to FA status". I just want to say that I acknowledge and appreciate SlimVirgin's hard work on this article. I think most of it is fairly well written and worthy of FA stutus. I understand her sense of OWNership over the thing, but respectfully suggest she's gone a little too far in dictating what is or isn't an allowable edit. Also, Slim has repeatidly pointed to the small number of edits made during the lifetime of Soledad's and my account as being evidence against us. Does anyone else share this opinion. I'd respectfully suggest I make up in quality what I lack in quantity.] (]) 20:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC) | ::Again, another note, I promise this will be last. I want to add on to something Tiamut mentioned re understanding "SlimVirgin's frustration at being challenged over the content of an article she worked hard to bring up to FA status". I just want to say that I acknowledge and appreciate SlimVirgin's hard work on this article. I think most of it is fairly well written and worthy of FA stutus. I understand her sense of OWNership over the thing, but respectfully suggest she's gone a little too far in dictating what is or isn't an allowable edit. Also, Slim has repeatidly pointed to the small number of edits made during the lifetime of Soledad's and my account as being evidence against us. Does anyone else share this opinion. I'd respectfully suggest I make up in quality what I lack in quantity.] (]) 20:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC) |
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Monshuai
Indefinite Bulgaria topic ban. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Monshuai
Discussion concerning MonshuaiStatement by MonshuaiI must cover the allegations against me even whilst I am limited in what I am allowed to say. Future Perfect at Sunrise states that I support the claim that the Bulgars are Iranian (Aryan) and not Turkic. This is patently false! As I stated before, years ago I believed that all theories about the Bulgars' ancestry be included in the respective article, as there did not seem to be absolute consensus amongst academics regarding their origins. I was also under the impression that Dr. Peter Dobrev's (of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences) Iranian-Bulgar theory was properly referenced and peer reviewed. However after studying the issue I came to the conclusion that his theory was not supported by a majority of the academic community and therefore most of the evidence pointed to the (Hunno-Bulgar) Turkic theory being correct. In other words, through intense research and education I came to view the Iranian hypothesis that I previously supported as being what Wikipedians refer to as a fringe theory. Therefore I stopped supporting its inclusion and all my edits hence forth were in favour of the Hunno-Bulgar Turkic theory. I have also read about the theory proposed by Dr. Shin Yong-Ha that the Bulgars originally stem from the Korean Peninsula as the Bu-Yeo culture that then migrated to the region presently known as Greater Mongolia. It seems Dr. Shin's premise directly ties to the primary theories about the Bulgars' Altaic (Turkic) origins. In other words, there is growing evidence that the Bulgars stem from central regions of north-eastern Asia. In light of this I was the one that made the edit that the Bulgars are associated with the Turkic Huns and that they originate in the steppes of Mongolia. Further still, I added another constructive edit (removed consequently by another editor) that according to academics the Bulgars were comprised of loosely confederated steppe peoples of various backgrounds. Thus I have shown that with hard work and in-depth research of numerous reliable sources I can not only admit my past errors of supporting a fringe theory of Dr. Peter Dobrev, but more importantly fix those errors! From the start I have stated that all modern nations are composites of multiple ancestral groups, and thus I have always been opposed to the racial purity theories propagated by many other editors. As an example of this, please look into my more recent edits about Bulgarians being an amalgamation of different ethnic groups. I have used the following sources to show this:
Now before I continue, my understanding is that Sandstein has told me that in this arbitration case I cannot make direct name references to the edits made by other involved editors on pages where there was a relevant conflict. Thus I am not going to state their names or give links to their respective edits. Continuing on, I tried to reason with the editor who tried to racially profile the First Bulgarian Empire by trying to explain to him that the state was multi-cultural and multi-ethnic. I told him it was inappropriate to do what he was doing. I showed this editor the sources (a few of which are provided above) and I stated in the talk page that "the role of the Bulgars was to incorporate various ethnic groups into their empire. These were the Slav and local Byzantine populations. Since you (the editor) insist that ethnicities be mentioned, then the relevant roles and amalgamation of the various ethnic groups in the formation of the state also must be mentioned." Indeed, this was disregarded by the editor and he continued to push the racial purity perspective. I then researched 20 sources and made them available to everyone. I included page numbers so that the referenced information could be easily found by interested parties. In doing so I tried to explain that it is disingenuous to racially profile a country as "pure" and that indeed there is a difference between Bulgars and Bulgarians. As I stated in the talk page, "the Bulgars were an ancient group, while the Bulgarians are a modern ethnicity that is a composite of several ethnic groups." Please ask yourselves whose comments are divisive, mine or that of the other editor(s). Thus I repeat, I am using credible academic sources to show the contributions of multiple groups to the formation of a modern state. That is the opposite of what I am being accused of here. In addition, I am being lambasted for edits that I have made in the past, while my recent patience and use of sources in the talk pages is being avoided in the discussion herein. It is true that years ago I made questionable edits and even got involved in a revert war for which I was blocked for 24 hours (the only block I have received in 3.5 years of contributing in Misplaced Pages). I learned not to get involved in revert wars and therefore began using talk pages to present sources and intellectually debate various issues. A few months ago I was involved in another long talk page discussion. However after reading the sources provided by one of the editors who was countering my arguments, I realized that his premise was backed by better evidence than the one I had presented. Thus I thanked this editor for his impartiality in analyzing the said source and I left the discussion and article never to go back to it again. In summary, I have evolved as an editor, who both respects and presents credible sources and always uses talk pages. Unfortunately, the credible sources that I presented recently were disregarded by other involved editors (including my accuser) who made false statements about me not providing page numbers, the inadmissibility of tertiary sources like Britannica, etc... There is much more that I want to discuss, however the ground rules laid by Sandstein do not allow me to compose a more detailed defence. I must also say that while I respect Sandstein for originally telling my accuser that I must be given a chance to speak in WP:ANI, I disagree with him for stopping that discussion soon after it began. My hands are tied there and also partially tied here. Despite his opinion on this matter and communicated intention of wanting to rule against me very soon, I believe he is a good administrator and I ask him to look at everything I have recently said and done (both in the WP:ANI discussion and in talk pages) to note that unlike some of the other editors involved in the recent conflicts I do not get involved in revert wars, I respect and propagate the multi-cultural heritage of all modern states, I use reliable sources to back my arguments and I maintain a polite tone as I never use foul language. Thank you for your time.--Monshuai (talk) 12:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Monshuai
Comment by SandsteinA few ground rules, please. This is arbitration enforcement. The purpose of this board is to help a single administrator decide whether they should take enforcement action as requested. Community consensus for or against sanctions is neither required nor sought. There is no voting. Each contributing editor should limit themselves to a single statement in a separate section, as here. That statement should address no other question than whether or not the requested enforcement is warranted. Please do not discuss any other issues, such as the content issues underlying this request, or the conduct of users other than Monshuai (but you may make a separate request regarding them if warranted). There should be no threaded discussion. Disruptive conduct on this board is likely to result in rapid sanctions. Thank you. Sandstein 23:56, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Fut.Perf.As I said on the ANI thread, I support this request for sanctions. Monshuai is the paradigm case of a tendentious editor; all his edits are designed to push some national agenda of his, often agendas connected to fringe claims (such as the Aryan/non-Turkic background of the ancient Bulgars, or promotion of continuity between ancient Thracians and modern Bulgarians). This has gone on for too long, and has led to disruption on too many articles. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC) Comment by SulmuesStrongly Oppose: As I understand it, Arbitration Enforcement enforces a closed Arbitration Committee ruling. There was no ruling at the ANI, therefore, this is the wrong place to enforce a ruling that does not exist yet. In addition, the ruling (had it existed) should not be based on voting but on strength of arguments presented. Furthermore, Monshuai is being accused of not abiding by ARBMAC rules while defending himself in the ANI thread. I really don't find any grounds why he should not defend himself and why he should not have the right to do so in the ANI. Furthermore he fully respected the rules while he defended himself. For the rest, I have already stated my strong support for Monshuai as an excellent contributor in Misplaced Pages, an honest intellectual that challenges the status quo with arguments that undermine weak conclusions of which Misplaced Pages is plenty, and also a person that is much more polite that many users who were involved at the ANI. We need more contributors like Monshuai, not less. You can also see my many long comments in the ANI for what I think about this case and its members. In addition, I request that the additional comment on the voter's nationalities at the ANI as told by Athenean above (and as soon as that is done, also this sentence of mine) be striken out of the record, because they are irrelevant, in addition to being incorrect (e.g. preslav is not Bulgarian). Last but not least: Voting was 6-2 at the ANI, (not 10-2 like Athenean is claiming) and two of the "supports" were indeed "weak supports", whereas one "oppose" (mine) was "strong oppose". Kind regards to all! sulmues talk --Sulmues 14:29, 17 February 2010 (UTC) Comment by uninvolved editor LoosmarkIn my opinion the indefinite ban proposed by Sandstein bellow is too harsh. If there is really a need for sanctions then a milder one should be applied giving the editor a chance to reform and edit in accordance with wikipedia guidelines. Dr. Loosmark 23:23, 17 February 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Monshuai
I have conducted a somewhat limited review (given time constraints) of the very large amount of evidence submitted at . In my opinion, the request has merit. There is extensive evidence of longtime and persistent editing in violation of WP:NPOV, with a view to glorifying Bulgarian ancient history, alleged racial heritage, accomplishments, etc; combined with aggressive WP:BATTLEGROUND-type conduct towards others in that topic area, notably much of this after the WP:ARBMAC warning. This is prototypical nationalist POV-pushing, which Misplaced Pages is not for (WP:ARBMAC#Purpose of Misplaced Pages). In my opinion, an indefinite ban from the topic of Bulgaria (broadly construed, including Bulgarians, Bulgarian ancient history, ancient peoples on modern-day Bulgarian territory etc.) is required to stop this. Unless other uninvolved admins disagree, I intend to impose such a ban in about a day under the authority of WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions. Sandstein 22:41, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
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Tothwolf
result is withdrawn request... |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Tothwolf
Discussion concerning TothwolfStatement by TothwolfRelated discussion --Tothwolf (talk) 01:26, 18 February 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Tothwolf
you should visit the diff in question that tothwolf has linked ] which links to ]. tothwolf has been specifically restricted by arbcom to not make allegations against other editors. the diff that tothwolf has restored states "(the case against) yourself, Miami33139 and JBsupreme due to your wikihounding, harassment, collusion, and gaming of the system." claims that me, jbsupreme, and miami33139 are harassing, wikihounding, colluding, or gaming are in violations of http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tothwolf#Allegations_against_other_editors . tothwolf is not allowed to accuse or make allegations of wikihounding or harassing against anyone, let alone the people who filed evidence against him in his arbcom case. tothwolf is gaming the system to use his talk page as a soapbox to link to a diff which rehashes allegations that have been rejected by arbcom. this is a violation of his restrictions. no allegations. no casting aspersions. the violation is obvious. he cannot link to diffs that accuse specific editors of harassment and hounding and he cannot place the link on the top of his talk page. this is a violation of his restrictionTheserialcomma (talk) 03:10, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Comment by A Stop at WilloughbyThe comment to which Theserialcomma is referring (the one including the diff at issue) is timestamped January 5, 2010. The Tothwolf case was closed on January 25, 2010. I cannot see how his comment violated a remedy that had barely been drafted at the time. It seems that Theserialcomma is filing this AE request on the grounds that Tothwolf reverted this edit, in which Theserialcomma modified a comment Tothwolf made on his talk page, alleging a personal attack. First of all, it is hard to see how a mere inclusion of a diff can be construed as a personal attack. Secondly, it is concerning that Theserialcomma performed this edit out of the blue in what certainly seems like an attempt to bait Tothwolf into violating his restriction. He should knock it off, and this request should be closed with no action taken.
Result concerning Tothwolf
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Supreme Deliciousness
Not actionable. Nefer Tweety warned not to continue making invalid requests. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
1st revert, 2nd revert, 3rd revert 3 violations of 1RR.
Supre Deliciousness has made 3 reverts on one day, in direct violation of his 1RR restriction. I ask you to please take action, this time to block him indefinitely, since he has been violating his ban so many times. Statement by Supreme DeliciousnessThose three edits I made were also at talkpages, not articles, and what I did was to strike out the comments from a sock puppet, there was no content changes. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:45, 20 February 2010 (UTC) Discussion concerning Supreme DeliciousnessComment by Fut.Perf.Those three reverts listed above are three reverts on three different pages. According to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Asmahan, he is restricted to 1rv per week per page. This doesn't seem to be technically a violation of the ruling, and the reverts themselves don't look intrinsically disruptive to me. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:12, 20 February 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Supreme DeliciousnessNot actionable. I agree with Future Perfect at Sunrise above. Since the reverts concern three different pages, the remedy is not violated. Nefer Tweety, please stop making non-actionable requests, or you may be banned from using this board. Sandstein 16:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC) |
Brews ohare
Brews ohare (talk · contribs) blocked for a week. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Brews ohare
Discussion concerning Brews OhareStatement by Brews OhareThis is another ridiculous action brought against me for no reason. Both evidential diffs are from Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring, not on any physics-related page, and neither are about physics. In particular:
Unfortunately, Headbomb has no concept of what is inimical to WP, and simply likes to make trouble. Actions should not be brought where no disturbance or harm to WP is involved. Headbomb should have his head handed to him for making trouble over nothing again and again. The comments made by me are general comments intended to put oil on troubled water, and are in no way physics based, or related in any way to my sanctions. Brews ohare (talk) 06:53, 22 February 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Brews Ohare
Result concerning Brews Ohare
Blocked for a week. The request has merit. The edits were made to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring, which violates Brews Ohare's indefinite ban from editing Misplaced Pages and Misplaced Pages talk namespaces, as imposed as a discretionary sanction by Tznkai at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Speed of light#Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions. The article at issue is Infraparticle, which is physics-related. With respect to that article, in the cited diffs, Brews Ohare says:
This violates his arbitral topic ban "from all physics-related discussions, broadly construed", as well as the even clearer ban from "disputes stemming from physics-related content" as per Tznkai's restriction. To determine the appropriate sanction, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Speed of light#Enforcement by block advises that "Should any user subject to a topic ban in this case violate that restriction, or any user subject to discretionary sanctions in this case violate a restriction imposed by an uninvolved administrator, that user may be briefly blocked, up to a week in the event of repeated violations. After 3 blocks, the maximum block shall increase to one year." This being Brews Ohare's third AE block, it is set at one week's duration. Sandstein 07:22, 22 February 2010 (UTC) |
David Tombe
Not actionable. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning David Tombe
Discussion concerning David TombeStatement by David TombeComments by others about the request concerning David TombeComment by Hell in a BucketBlocking David for the truth doesn't make it less true. Comment by Michael C PriceI'm struggling to see the the violation by David here. His restriction requires him to be warned first, and he wasn't. His topic ban relates to physics, and in the 3 diffs provided he is commenting on the justice or otherwise of blocks, bans and behaviour. --Michael C. Price 04:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC) Comment by LikeboxThis enforcement action is not timed properly--- the accusations are over taking sides in another dispute, and the enforcement request seems on its face to be an abuse of the Misplaced Pages enforcement mechanisms in order to settle private scores.Likebox (talk) 14:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC) Comment by SandsteinI agree with Michael C. Price. Sandstein 07:09, 22 February 2010 (UTC) Result concerning David Tombe
Closed as not actionable per the above. Sandstein 19:15, 22 February 2010 (UTC) |
Arab Cowboy
Arab Cowboy (talk · contribs · block log) blocked for 72 hours |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Arab Cowboy
He was banned from all articles and their associated talk pages within the scope of the Asmahan case for abuse of alternative accounts: "If you violate this ban through either your main account or through sockpuppets, you will be blocked." Omar Sharif is a part of the scope of the case as can be seen in its history and also has been mentioned in the arbitration case: Omar Sharif discussion continued from its talkpage to the BLP noticeboard, so that would be an associated page. AC made several posts there in the Omar Sharif discussion:
Block or ban.
Discussion concerning Arab CowboyStatement by Arab CowboyComments by others about the request concerning Arab CowboyResult concerning Arab Cowboy
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NickCT and Soledad22
Request concerning NickCT and Soledad22
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- NickCT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Soledad22 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy that this user violated
- Diffs of edits that violate it, and an explanation how they do so
Reverting against multiple editors since February 13 at Muhammad al-Durrah incident (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), always careful to fall short of 3RR
- Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
This is a request for a topic ban of NickCT and Soledad22 from Muhammad al-Durrah incident, or a revert restriction.
- Notification of the users against whom enforcement is requested
- Warnings
- Additional comments
Muhammad al-Durrah incident was promoted to featured article status on January 25. On February 11, User:Huldra complained about its promotion on Misplaced Pages Review. On February 13, two sporadically used accounts arrived at the article, NickCT and Soledad22, who have very few edits between them; NickCT has made just 170 edits to articles in nearly three years, and Soledad22 217 edits to articles in two years. A checkuser revealed no technical connection between them; see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/NickCT/Archive.
Between February 13 and today, the two accounts have jointly reverted 22 times against multiple editors, removing material from the lead, adding POV tags, fact tags, and dubious tags, and reordering sections. The issues they have raised are being discussed on talk, but the reverting continues anyway, and now the article has been protected on their version by Malik Shabbaz, who is involved in the talk-page discussion, with three tags in the last paragraph of the lead, something no recently promoted FA should have. See here. Given the proximity of the two accounts' arrival to the off-wiki comments, it seems likely that the disruption will continue regardless of any particular content issue. SlimVirgin 18:58, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- Malik, I agree that someone needed to stop the reverting, but I was just about to post a request for assistance on AN/I. I don't doubt that you acted in good faith, but we're not supposed to use the tools in disputes we've commented on. As it stands, two barely used accounts have managed to have a recently featured article stuck with three tags in one paragraph of the lead until March 5, thereby supplanting their own judgment for that of the FA reviewers. SlimVirgin 21:01, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Discussion
- Statements by NickCT and Soledad22
- Statement by NickCT
Wow Slim. Really disturbing. First you claim I'm a sock puppet, now this? This is obviously a bad faith allegation made by an editor who is trying to WP:OWN an article, and is upset by other editors questioning potential POV statements. Apparently, instead of debating and seeking consensus (as the Al-Durrah talk page will show I have done), Slim prefers to mire people who disagree with her in this kind of frivilous arbitration. This is clearly bad faith, and it's the second time Slim has attempted this kind of shinanigans. I think Slim was prompted to do this now as I was demonstrating a lack of consensus for her wording? NickCT (talk) 19:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- A note on tagging- I think my tagging of Al-Durrahis inline with WP:TAGGING and specificly Misplaced Pages:Tagging_pages_for_problems#Disputes_over_tags. I noted this when I tagged, and Slim reverted without discussion or explination. I was actually in the process of consulting admin User:Malik Shabazz over whether tagging was an appropriate action. If Slim thought my tagging was innappropriate, should she have not at least explained why before reverting? Slim has trouble playing nice with editors who disagree with her. NickCT (talk) 19:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- Again, another note, I promise this will be last. I want to add on to something Tiamut mentioned re understanding "SlimVirgin's frustration at being challenged over the content of an article she worked hard to bring up to FA status". I just want to say that I acknowledge and appreciate SlimVirgin's hard work on this article. I think most of it is fairly well written and worthy of FA stutus. I understand her sense of OWNership over the thing, but respectfully suggest she's gone a little too far in dictating what is or isn't an allowable edit. Also, Slim has repeatidly pointed to the small number of edits made during the lifetime of Soledad's and my account as being evidence against us. Does anyone else share this opinion. I'd respectfully suggest I make up in quality what I lack in quantity.NickCT (talk) 20:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- Re Slim's
- "have a recently featured article stuck with three tags in one paragraph of the lead until March 5, thereby supplanting their own judgment for that of the FA reviewers"
- Slim has repeatidly expressed the view that FA articles are in some sense beyond question. Is this accurate? I think Slim's assertion that FA reviewers agree would agree with her over the current debate is slightly presumptious. NickCT (talk) 21:12, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- @Radeksz & @MBz1 re Soledad. I do find Soledad a little loud, and some of his edits in bad taste. But I'd point out that on both sides of the current Al-Durrah/Blood Libel debate there have been some pretty dubious statments and edits which have suggested an agenda. (see MBz1's quoting Golda Meir, THF's claim of some Palestinian press conspiracy). I think we're casting stones in glass houses. Perhaps best not to comb through peoples contribs to try and find an agenda here. Let's concentrate on whether there was disruptive editing. NickCT (talk) 23:58, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- Again, another note, I promise this will be last. I want to add on to something Tiamut mentioned re understanding "SlimVirgin's frustration at being challenged over the content of an article she worked hard to bring up to FA status". I just want to say that I acknowledge and appreciate SlimVirgin's hard work on this article. I think most of it is fairly well written and worthy of FA stutus. I understand her sense of OWNership over the thing, but respectfully suggest she's gone a little too far in dictating what is or isn't an allowable edit. Also, Slim has repeatidly pointed to the small number of edits made during the lifetime of Soledad's and my account as being evidence against us. Does anyone else share this opinion. I'd respectfully suggest I make up in quality what I lack in quantity.NickCT (talk) 20:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- Equating "quoting Golda Meir" to Soledad's rancid bigotry says much more about NickCT's agenda than MBz1's. I welcome readers to look at the diff NickCT provided of my talk-page edit, and compare it to his characterization, and then ask why he's trying to throw mud on unrelated editors to distract from his own actions. THF (talk) 00:04, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- THF - Not sure you are meant to post here, but regardless - I'm not saying it's equal, only suggesting it demonstrates an agenda. And I'm sorry THF but this Pallywood thing is clearly a "press conspiracy theory". NickCT (talk) 00:59, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- Equating "quoting Golda Meir" to Soledad's rancid bigotry says much more about NickCT's agenda than MBz1's. I welcome readers to look at the diff NickCT provided of my talk-page edit, and compare it to his characterization, and then ask why he's trying to throw mud on unrelated editors to distract from his own actions. THF (talk) 00:04, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- Comments by Malik Shabazz
I sincerely apologize to SlimVirgin for protecting The Wrong Version, but somebody had to stop the edit-warring. For what it's worth, I agree that Featured Articles shouldn't have tags. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 19:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- I wanted to confirm that Nick had indeed asked my advice concerning tagging the article, about ten minutes after I protected it. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 20:27, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- Comments by Tiamut
When there is a dispute over content, there are a number of choices available to editors. One is to remove the content in question to the talk page until consensus regarding its inclusion or phrasing can be achieved. The other is to tag the content in question until a resolution can be found. NickCT and Soledad tried to remove, and then tag the content in question. While it is true that between them they made as many as 20 reverts, it is also true that SlimVirgin alone made as many as 12 reverts.
I can understand SlimVirgin's frustration at being challenged over the content of an article she worked hard to bring up to FA status. That does not however excuse her meeting edit-warring with edit-warring or making bad faith assumption about editors who disagree with her (alleging socking, off-wiki conspiracies, or inability to transcend POV , ). The article would not have had to be protected with the tags in place if the offending content was simply removed to talk when it was clear that multiple editors found it problematic. Tiamut 20:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- I would like to note that my comments are addressed solely to SlimVirgin's original complaint about what happened at Muhammad al-Durrah incident article. I have at no time looked at any of the diffs pertaining to Soledad's edit history at other articles, and if that is the issue here, then a complaint should have been filed on that. Tiamut 01:38, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- Comments by MBz1
Soledad22 is definitely a cause of concern. The user expresses strong POV in his/her edits and removes appropriate information from the articles ;; (In the last diff I absolutely agree with the removing information, but the edit summary is way too strong IMO). This edit shows strong Anti-Jewish tendency of the user style. I would also like to repeat what SlimVirgin said : "214 edits to articles in two years, among them British National Party; The Jew of Malta; Template:Neo-fascism; Ashkenazi intelligence; removed that "international Jewry" were scapegoats on Adolf Hitler; attempted to downplay the proportion of Polish Jews killed at The Holocaust; added something about anti-Christian bigotry among Jews at The Merchant of Venice (2004 film), (and that's just a selection), and who then arrives here objecting to the mention of blood libel in the lead, and adding for good measure that there are too many photographs of Israelis and Jews in the article." IMO Soledad22 should be topic banned on all articles about Jews and Israelis because of a very high and bad-tasted anti_Jewish sentiments in it edits including, but not limited on the articles concerning the victims of the Holocaust and terrorists.--Mbz1 (talk) 23:31, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- I've changed my opinion about Soledad22 after looking more closely at the user contributions. There are quite a few anti-Semitic edits. IMO because of this edit alone the user should be blocked indefinitely. IMO wikipedia will be better off without it. I would also like to voice my concern about NickCT and his supporting of Soledad22. --Mbz1 (talk) 01:13, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- Comments by Radeksz
I don't know NickCT but I remember noticing Soledad22 in April of 2009 when he got into a minor spat with someone (not me) on the Federal Reserve Board article which I've edited a lot and which is on my watchlist. At the time I took a look at the user's contributions and was bothered enough by their nature to remember the name, though since the user was relatively inactive I didn't do anything and let it go. So to add to MBz1's concerns please also consider these diffs - there's definitely an agenda here, and it's not a pretty one. Note that some of them are merely indicative of the kind of POV that this person is pushing, while others (some, admittedly, old) show blatant violations of Misplaced Pages rules and guideline:
History of the Jews of Argentina - making sure to blame the victim
Anti-intellectualism - the faith must not be smeared
Template:Neo-fascism - see above
"Third Position" - (code word for neo-fascism more or less) minor, but telling
Henry Orenstein - minor, perhaps, but telling
self explanatory, sourced material removed
Jack Kerouac - removing sourced info
and the first edit ever
Franz Boas -defending Kevin MacDonald before defending Kevin MacDonald was cool (among some people)
There's some others too that I'm not going to include. And like some other commentators above I'm also suspicious of the fact that a user with only 265 edits is so adept at "hugging the fence" with respect to 3RR.radek (talk) 23:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- Re Nick - Nick, like I stated above, I am completely unfamiliar with your contributions and edit history. I am also completely uninvolved in the present dispute. I do however find Soledad22's edits very troubling, and part of the an overall pattern documented above. So having reiterated that let me note that my comments were/are meant to apply to Soledad22 and Soledad22 only and not to any other editor.radek (talk) 00:04, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- Comments by George
As a disclaimer, I haven't been paying nearly as much attention to the Mohammad al-Durrah article itself as of late, and I haven't done any research into the edit patterns of these two editors. I've only been (lightly) involved in the talk page discussions, so my comments come from that perspective.
In NickCT's defense, I think he has tried to engage in discussion on the article's talk page. He hasn't always been successful, and sometimes comes off as an editor trying to push a particular view, but I do think he at least attempted some form of dispute resolution or consensus building. His multi-tagging of the article's lead is inappropriate, but it might be possible to resolve such behavior with discussion and explanation. Perhaps mentorship would be an option? (Though mentorship could be handed down in addition to a topic ban on the article, rather than in place of one.)
Soledad22 is another matter. He seems to be far more interested in edit warring and POV pushing than discussion, consensus, or following Misplaced Pages policies. The edit pattern other editors described above is disturbing, and I'd agree with those who suggested a wider topic ban to restrict Soledad22 from editing any articles on Jewish-related issues. ← George 00:27, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- Comments by ChrisO
I've not been following the article much lately either, but Soledad22's behaviour was so clearly out of line that I notified him of the I-P article probation four days ago . It's worth noting that he continued to edit war following the notification. I agree with George that the evidence posted above of an anti-Semitic POV-pushing agenda is worrying; he should be subjected to a wide topic ban on all Jewish-related articles. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
- Comments by others
Result
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