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I have been banned for WP:BLP

I've been given a ban, without warning, and apparenlty it's indefinite. The reason was that I've said something that was in my opinion, and explained it in a talk page about an Israeli college in the west bank. I have no idea why this was WP:BLP but if an administrator would have told me why, I would have removed it. The justification of this ban seems to be 3RR that I've done years ago, and an accusation of a case of sockpupptery done a long time ago, which I didn't really do - and the outcome was "likely" not certain, but I was still banned for it even though I was innocent. Anyway, apparently this ban is indefinite without warning.

20 minutes before the ban, another adminstrator warned me on my talk page. I would have complied with that. Since this was already dealt with by the 1st adminstrator, why did a 2nd adminstator weigh in and ban me? Again, I would have complied with it, but apparently the 2nd adminstator was asked by an involved user to come, and I find that offensive.. I didn't have a chance to comply with the first adminstrator, which again I would have done gladly.

No 1R restriction, no asking me to delete the alleged WP:BLP, no anything... banned indefinitely. I don't really mind that much, but this will be an excuse for users to revert a lot of work that I've done. They've been doing this every time I was away. I would gladly accept a 1R revert rule per day or per week or month, or anything reasonable, like I've seen users engaged in these articles... but indefinie for alleged WP:BLP that I don't even understand why, and explained why it wasn't... without an administrator telling me that it's WP:BLP first... is unbelievable... Amoruso (talk) 20:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Admin Sandstein is clearly out of line. 11 hours to judge - jury - and decision handed down on a freakin Sunday. --Shuki (talk) 20:58, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Seeing the discussion here, I believe that the ban is appropriate. Keep in mind that indefinite does not mean infinite. This was not a decision made on a whim, and you did violate previous sanctions. –Turian (talk) 21:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

This diff indicates there are very serious behavioral problems, so I support Sandstein's ban. PhilKnight (talk) 21:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Appears to me to be an admin being an admin. Please remember that discussion is not required. Discussion usually ensues here, when another editor reports someone here for violation of an ArbCom decision - but this page is recent compared to ArbCom, and it is not a required step to enforce ArbCom decisions. You would have to show some reason why Sandstein's action was in error - for example, some other editor was the one who violated the ArbCom decision, not you, or the ArbCom sanctions (and any sanctions previously enacted against you) were not violated - to have any argument for appeal. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 21:17, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I realize I was wrong. I didn't know the scope of WP:BLP. I would have never kept the information if an administrator would have told me about it. But I don't see how a ban is justified. It does feel like it was made on a whim. How did I violate previous sanctions? What do you mean? I was guilty of 2 3RR incidents years ago, and this happened in contentious subjects. Then I was suspected of sockpupptery once and I was innocent but a determination was that it was likely that it was a sockpuppet... I realize that it doesn't matter what I say about that, but well, you can take it anyway you'd like it.. that was too a long time ago anyway. I think this is extremely harsh. I was never in an ArbCom decision issue - I don't think I was active at the time, and I'm still not active, I was only editing a few articles that I was heavily involved with, and returning portions that were deleted to some articles, and I made this WP:BLP mistake about a non issue really.. it was an off-comment and a mistake in a heated debate where two users were heavily edit-warring and reverting an article about an Israeli college to say it's occupied palestinian land again and again.... I was familiar with this article from years ago, and the attack on it was relentless This user Nableezy does nothing but edit war on articles - he's assisted by user:Unomi and a couple of other users, and then Nableezy goes to an administrator's talk page and complains about my WP:BLP to ban me? while there's an open case at BLP noticeboard? Why?

And I realize that there is a problem - I'm editing articles that sometimes get heated and this happens to all users... but an indefinite ban is too much. A 1RR per a time period restriction is more appropriate and this is what other users have. Amoruso (talk) 21:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I didnt go on Sandstein's page, I only opened the BLP/N section. nableezy - 22:01, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Consistency is not necessarily required when handling different users. Like I said, this is only indefinite. If you prove to other users that you are able to cooperate and behave, then down the road you can make an appeal do the topic block. You realize you are wrong; now go fix it. –Turian (talk) 21:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand how in the middle of a discussion someone can come and ban me when an inolved user goes and notify him. This is wrong.

Here are replies to the thread I never had a chance to read:

• "free speech" does not apply to talk pages per WP:FORUM. Editors opinions about the subjects of WP:BLPs on talk pages are unwelcomed, unneeded, and against policy. Please use the talk page to discuss how the article can be improved. Thank you, --Tom (talk) 17:57, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• Amoruso, you do not appear to be listening, and to an extent people are pussyfooting around, so let's be really clear here. WP:BLP applies everywhere, and the most important thing you need to know about it is that if you insist on engaging in commentary that is identified as violating the policy, that is, is polemical commentary about living individuals, then you may be blocked from editing. There are a whole raft of essays and guidelines covering this area including WP:TRUTH, but the most important is WP:BLP and also WP:NOT, which describes what Misplaced Pages is not for, including being a forum for discussion or an experiment in free speech. You have two choices: you can understand and dial it back about ten notches, or you can carry on and I will block you. This is not because of what you believe, it's because of what you are saying and about whom. If you want to blog that stuff then you're welcome, just please don't bring it here, OK? Guy (Help!) 19:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• Yes, these are administrators.... why on Earth would another administrator come and ban me? They said THANK YOU, and OK? How can this be appropriate? Nableezy (or is it UNOMI in fact... he reported it wrong?) goes behind my back and complains to ANOTHER administrator to be more harsh? Amoruso (talk) 21:55, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Just because they might have done something wrong, which I don't believe the did, that does not minimize what you have done. –Turian (talk) 22:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I initially asked for Sandsteins opinion after I reverted the fairly blatant BLP violation you introduced on the talkpage. I did this as I simply wasn't sure how much I should make of it, when Sandstein indicated that in his opinion it was problematic enough to warrant a warning I found that BLPN had been taken in use and I posted there. You then start arguing with uninvolved editor off2riorob, rather than actually reading the policies which you had been given links to. I don't think anyone tried to get harsher punishment for you or any of that sort. Unomi (talk) 23:05, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I am sympathetic to you Amoruso and notice how it is always the same people getting involved in these discussions, screaming for blood. Pro-Israel editors are getting banned and blocked left and right. (see above and below) I put up a couple of ANI's about Vexorg and others' rudeness and accusing everyone of being part of a lobby, and all I get are people screaming for my blood! I can't even get a uninvolved administrator to take a look. You on the other hand get walking papers without warning ?! I for one think it highly unfair. I imagine that will get me banned shortly as well for being disruptive and battlefield etc. With respect to Unomi, he made the following edits to people who showed support for Mbz1, in a clear effort to influence them to change their !vote or view. ,, Stellarkid (talk) 23:13, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Have you even read those diffs? Unomi (talk) 23:35, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Stellarkid!!! PLEASE STOP using arbitration reports that have nothing to do with me as an excuse to fuel your obvious ongoing personal agenda against me. Thankyou. Vexorg (talk) 00:04, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

• After viewing the six diffs provided here, I am at a loss to see why Amoruso deserves anything stronger than a warning, and a reasonable time in which to withdraw anything in violation of the rules, if, in fact, rules were broken. Everyone stumbles at times. Prior discussion and an opportunity to remedy a problem may not be required, but would be considerate. A sudden, indefinitely long ban seems grossly excessive and an overreaction. The administrator apparently had to bring long-past incidents and suspicions into the picture to inflate what otherwise would be too weak a case for a ban. If expressing opinions in non-article space is a crime, we are all in trouble. In my opinion, it would be healthier for WP to look into whether the opinions expressed might be justified, than to automatically rule them off limits. The ban should be rescinded. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:40, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
• If Amoruso was a new editor who needed some educating, I'd argue that Sandstein's action was excessive and should be replaced by a short block. However, Amoruso is in fact a very experienced edit-warrior who has disrupted the I/P section of WP for years with endless POV-pushing, endless tendentious debate, and worse sins like lying about sources (repeatedly, proof provided on request) and sock-puppetry. On the positive side, ...er...er...er... my memory must be defective. Zero 12:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Zero, we were involved in many content disputes over the years, and you also wiki-stalked me on numerous occasions. You were banned yourself, even banned yourself, and I don't think your comment is in good faith. I can provide many incriminating diffs concerning you, but I don't do that. I want to move on amicably. Any discretions were long time ago anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Topic_ban#Types_of_topic_bans "Note that topic bans are meant to be preventative and not punitive. That is to say those users subject :to topic bans are not being punished for bad behavior but instead the removal of the user from that topic area where they repeatedly violate policy" ... talking about 3RR that you did yourself years ago, and that case of isolated sockpuppetry (which I deny. it was never confirmed, I was blocked for "likely") is abit too much. I'm not guilty for life for those things, it didn't happen recently, and I resent your unfounded accusations.

• For the record, I await Sandtein's response but here's my apology to user:Sandstein and an explanation that my mistake was based on an WP:RS who used the same word prominently. That WP:RS was in the Jerusalem Post and referenced in an article in Florida Law Review.Amoruso (talk) 15:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

This case is over, but I just want to record that the Jerusalem Post article Amoruso claims was the source for his libel against the Egyptian judge does not mention the judge at all. Furthermore the Florida Law Review article which cites JP (thereby supporting a charge that JP didn't even make?) only goes so far as to quote an Israeli statement that the judge should recuse himself since in a previous diplomatic role he had been "actively engaged in opposition to Israel" (footnote 218). This is a completely typical example of how Amoruso has always operated. Zero 04:20, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

another RS was brought to my attention here. However, this is not the core of the argument - I think it was too contentious and came up in the heat of the debate, and it will not be repeated. At the time it did not even occur to me how this could be a violation of WP:BLP. Another user commented on how it's common within many circles including in Israel to equate anti Israel with anti-semitism. I could not see how such accusation could be a violation of WP:BLP and I misunderstood or rather did not know the scope of BLP. These RS's show that it wasn't out of the blue or crazy, but I still won't ever introduce such a thing into a talk page, any talk page. On a related note, I ran across this statement from user:nableezy on Avigdor Liberman talk page "It is SYNTH for you to cite unrelated sources to support the phrasing in this context in that you seek to give the leader of this racist and fascist party (to soapbox in your manner) an excuse for such language". I think the use of the word fascist is largely similar to the use of the word antisemitic and can be found in numerous sources that reflect opinions, not facts. Why was user:nableezy bothered about antisemite but not racist or fascist. all of them are wrong by WP:BLP and all parties should avoid them from now. Amoruso (talk) 17:03, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Sandstein

This is also in reply to various issues raised at my talk page and at WP:BLPN. Insofar as this unstructured mess of an appeal is made to me, I decline it, and insofar as it is made to the community, I recommend that they do likewise, for the following reasons:

As explained in my original rationale, this ban is not principally because of the BLP violations at issue, but because Amoruso was essentially given a last chance by being blocked for only two months in response to the abusive sockpuppetry documented in his block log. By his continued disruption in the same topic area he has failed to use that chance. I was about to block him indefinitely, as suggested by Moreschi in his block log entry, but decided to use the lesser sanction of a topic ban instead.

The ban is also necessary because Amoruso does not understand WP:BLP, as he has admitted subsequent to the ban; his later statements to the contrary are not credible. As documented in my rationale, the BLP violation consisted in his repeatedly voicing his opinion that a certain judge is "antisemitic", "an utter loon" and "legally daft and biased". On appeal, Amoruso argues, in substance, that his statements were supported by a source that refers to a decision in which that judge took part as "joining the parade of anti-Semitic infamy". Nothing Amoruso has said so far makes me believe that he understands that this source does not justify him stating his own opinion, without attribution to any source, that the judge is an antisemitic loon etc.; at most, the source (if reliable) might have been used as a reference to support a statement that "so-and-so has said that such-and-such decision is antisemitic".

Amoruso's statements that he would have complied with an administrator instruction to cease his BLP violations are also not credible: As documented in my rationale, he has up to the moment of the ban ignored the advice of the multiple editors who told him to stop. Instead he has made long, spurious arguments why he should be allowed to voice his opinion, and has reverted other editors who removed his violations. There is no reason to believe he would have changed his conduct had it not been for the ban.

I advise Amoruso to spend a significant amount of time, about six months, editing actively in less sensitive areas to prove that he does understand WP:BLP now. If he can do so without causing any problems, I will review his ban upon appeal at that time.

Many correctly point out that editors should work on articles or resolve their differences amicably instead of engaging in drama. But administrators cannot make them do so; our only power is to remove from the game those who become too disruptive.

Apologies are irrelevant: policy requires compliance, not contrition. So are any good contributions by Amoruso: we are all expected to make only good contributions and may not use them as excuses for bad ones. Finally, it's indeed likely that many other participants in this dramafest also deserve sanctions, but that is no reason not to sanction Amoruso. It is, however, a reason for admins to start work at WP:WPAE (which I intend to do now) and bring those others, too, into compliance.  Sandstein  17:46, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Moreschi was obviously only talking about the sockpuppeting charge - if I repeat THAT, not that you can use WP:BLP violation years later as an excuse to say that it warrants a penalty. I emailed him and asked him if there's any evidence to be presented that can exonerate me over that old charge. I immediately erased those other comments you're accusing me of. The "likely and not certain" sockpuppeting of ages past (that I always denied) have no relation to this issue. It's whether I'm disruptive now. And of course I would have complied with an administrator telling me what to do other than users who kept insulting me. This is a mistake but actually a favor. User:Nableezy can go on and call people "fascists" and "racists" and that will not be WP:BLP violation, but I say one time "anti-semitic" and get banned indefinitely in a period of less than 12 hours on a Sunday (for other users to comment and talk to me) and a remembrance day eve in Israel. I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TIME TO ADD SOURCES OR CHANGE THE PHRASING BECAUSE I WAS BANNED SO QUICKLY. Thank you. I hope other administrators can see how wrong and counter-productive this ban is. Amoruso (talk) 18:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Just for information, I have been canvassed via e-mail by Amoruso, in which he states "could you have a look at yom kippur war article and perhaps alert wikiproject israel? i'm concerned that it seems that egypt was victorious in the war, both by picture in the lead, caption and actual statement of who won the war "strategically" based on one misreading of one source... this is in contrast to reality where israel won decisively. don't mention me, i'm currently topic banned". пﮟოьεԻ 57 22:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I contacted you specifically as a neutral administrator, not pro-Israeli, to take a look at what I saw was a disturbing situation just before my ban. One other administrator told me that I can still make edits at project Israel to alert others of the problem, but on the safe side, I thought I'll ask an administrator to do it, and yes, not involve me directly so I won't be dragged in (if someone asks me a question etc). Sorry if you thought this was inappropriate, but it's not 'canvassing' at all. I merely asked you to have a quick look, not to do anything. Cheers, Amoruso (talk) 01:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Drork

Nableezy

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Nableezy

User requesting enforcement

Shuki (talk) 22:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

#

1. Accuses users of lying and making stuff up about them without provocation.
2. Inciting violence on his user page and refusing to remove pictures and hateful text when asked.
3. Repeatedly removes categories and templates or changes them to meet his narrow WP:POV.
4. Removing images
5. Removing Hebrew language
6. Changing order of sentence so that "settlement" appears before "village" and not vice-versa. very productive.
7. Change NPOV leads to POV leads
8. using popups when users nominate cateogories for deletion
9. saying that today it is modern day "Jordan and Palestine", denying Israel's very existence. but everything he says "not in israel"
10. threatens users to just be happy with current version or he'll write something worse
11. Lies about naming conventions to revert-massively
12. Violating civility by telling editors what to do - "Grow the __ck up"
13. Violating 1RR restriction applied on recently here
14. Violating 1RR restriction again on different article
15. Instead of welcoming new editor, WP:BITE and makes sockpuppet claims to editor who he cannot collaborate with and refuses to join discussion on talk page by deleting it

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

#

1. Notification of ARBPIA sanctions
2. previous two month topic ban
3. Civility warning by Malik Shabazz

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Extended topic ban and/or other timeoff

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I find it absurd that Nableezy is filing repeated AEs while he himself continues his disruptive behaviour of being uncivil, failing AGF, and violating his own recent 1RR restriction, twice in one day (three times actually, but to his credit, he self-reverted on Jerusalem). The editor finds it hard to mend his ways and lose the battleground mentality. He has improved, thank goodness to the warnings and restrictions, but apparently needs more and/or much more time to think. --Shuki (talk) 22:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Nableezy

Statement by Nableezy

Ill just say that whatever Shuki thinks is "POV" generally means that it is not an extreme right-wing Israeli POV. So his accusations about "POV" really dont mean anything to me. The only thing that might matter here is numbers 13 and 14. On 13, the second edit was not a revert. On 14, pan-Arabism is not a part of the A/I conflict topic area. I'll also say that number 9 is a complete lie. In no way do I "deny Israel's very existence", the article that we have covering the "geographical area" for both Israel and the occupied territories is Palestine. And my edit summary makes this clear. Just one more in a long line of unfounded attacks by Shuki. I'll also say that what Shuki has accused me of doing, skirting a 1RR, is exactly what Shuki has done on the Ariel University page. Each of these are reverts made just outside of 24 hours:

1. 20:42, 10 April 2010 (edit summary: "yes, and all could not give a crap about the quality of the lead. Perhaps Peter Cohen can comment again.")
2. 21:04, 11 April 2010 (edit summary: "Undid revision 355260994 by Nableezy (talk) rv, the context is apparently needed unless you can totally cut down the lead to NPOV")
3. 21:24, 12 April 2010 (edit summary: "reduce even more confusion to concise, what it is and where")

nableezy - 01:18, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, George, for your last question, no. But this is the second frivolous AE request Shuki has filed against me. nableezy - 01:29, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Sandstein, yes some of the pan-Arabism article discusses Israel, but if you look at what I have actually removed the only references to Israel are from a quote from an Egyptian at a bus stop saying that he would prefer an alliance with Israel as opposed to one with the Arab states. How does that fall in the scope of the A/I conflict? nableezy - 22:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, if the sanction is to be based on my violating a 1RR rule I would rather just be blocked. nableezy - 22:07, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

ANd for number 13, combining the two versions (as I did in the second diff, keeping the armistice lines and the internationally recognized line) is a revert? nableezy - 22:09, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy

Comments by George

Going through Shuki's diffs in order:

1. Hmm, you neglected to mention that Nableezy apologized and struck out his accusation.
2. I can't read Arabic, so I don't know what those song lyrics say. What about them "incites violence"? And what pictures are you talking about?
3. These diffs look like a move toward neutrality, so I'm not sure how you interpret them as POV pushing. Labeling the Golan Heights as part of Israel is a particular POV; removing any label from them (not saying they are in Israel, and not saying they are in Syria) is hardly POV pushing.
4. It looks like there was some consensus for their removal on the talk page a month ago. Nableezy discussed the issue; you don't appear to have been a part of that discussion?
5. That's a highly selective description. Editors should note that he removed both the Hebrew and the Arabic.
6. This looks like a content dispute between yourself, Nableezy, and Supreme Deliciousness. It's unclear to me why your version or Nableezy's is better, but this isn't the place to decide that.
7. This is a diff of Nableezy re-writing a lead that was unsourced by citing sources. Are there counter sources? This diff alone doesn't seem to indicate anything of POV pushing (in contrast to if Nableezy was replacing certain sources with other sources).
8. I don't know what this diff is supposed to show. What's wrong with using popups?
9. The first diff should say Israel, not Palestine. I see nothing wrong with the second (an Israeli settlement in the West Bank isn't considered to be in Israel, as far as I know).
10. This is a repeat of an earlier diff, and I hardly see it as a threat... seems more like an encouragement to accept compromise.
11. I don't understand what Nableezy meant (maybe he was referring to the term Judea?), but you should watch the personal attacks labeling his statement a lie. In general, his version is a bit more readable, but it's unclear if this is anything more than a content dispute. And really, you're going to describe his changing one sentence as reverting "massively"?
12. Yup, it was uncivil.
13. Looks like two different, but similar, versions of this sentence, not a revert. Note that in the second diff Nableezy isn't removing or replacing material (as in the first diff), only expanding.
14. Why would Nableezy be on 1RR on this article? How is Pan-Arabism related to the the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
15. Asking a new editor if they've had a previous account isn't a WP:BITE, though Nableezy seemed quite terse with them in the back and forth.

Going over all your diffs, #12 and #15 seemed like minor incivility, and probably should have been taken to WP:WQA or put to Nableezy directly. However, this seems like yet another monstrously large AE report, filled with meaningless diffs and exaggerated summaries, and it's getting old. As I've stated before, throwing a pile of crap on the wall to see what sticks isn't the way to handle these cases. ← George 23:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I would add that the number of AE reports Nableezy has filed in recent days is concerning. Is there any evidence that any of these, or his past reports, have been frivolous? ← George 23:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

• reply to george The apology (#1) was later rescinded. --Shuki (talk) 08:44, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

• Can you be more specific Shuki? That's a very long discussion, but skimming over it, it looks liked Amoruso asks for an apology, Nableezy explains how they were confused & apologizes, Amoruso accepts, it turns into a discussion on what the map means, then Breein1007 chimes in with a minor personal attack towards the end, and says that Nableezy didn't apologize. Where in your diff did Nableezy rescind his apology (a quote would be nice)? ← George 09:54, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Cptnono Much of the stuff mentioned may not be a problem but there are two obvious concerns:

• His reverts at Pan Arabism included removing a source discussing it as racist partially based on Israel. This is removed from the bulk of the text being reverted so it should have been easy enough to leave alone the second time. The source might be problematic but that is for discussion on the talk page not breaking 1rr.
• He told another editor to "grow the fuck up". He has continued to not be civil to editors despite repeated warnings.Cptnono (talk) 11:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Someone (George?) mentioned throwing poo against the wall to see if it sticks somewhere else. LOL and agreed that people need to watch out for that since it does nothing but detract from the transgressions that should be worried about. It also comes across as a low blow.Cptnono (talk) 12:13, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Vexorg

Yet another ( as competently demonstrated by George above ) highly petty and exaggerated AE report designed to attack another editor rather than for the good of Misplaced Pages. My advice to you Shuki and anyone else in the I-P conflict to stop these reports (and withdraw this one). The admins are fed up with it. All that will happen here is that a bunch of partisan editors will turn up and attack each other again. Vexorg (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

So you are saying to turn a blind eye to disruptive behaviour and / or just when it is involving someone you identify with. Please deal with the content of the report, and discuss the idea in another forum. --Shuki (talk) 08:41, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

You should actually try reading the posts BEFORE commenting ... I repeat "...and anyone else in the I-P conflict..." "anyone else" means anyone involved. Got it? thanks. Vexorg (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments by 173.52.124.223

• I think #15 alone may be grounds for some sort of ban against Nableezy. It is clearly an attempt to intimidate a new editor who is on the opposing editing team. Of course the whole process on this noticeboard has become absurd, and its bans are, at this point, probably more disruptive to the editing process than the user violations that are the grounds for the bans. I really dislike the idea of having Nableezy topic banned. The problem is that he has initiated so many reports here (in my view attempts at intimidation, and attempts to make editing I/P articles ever more difficult and stressful for editors with opposing views) that it is difficult to argue that he should be exempt from what he so frequently wants for opposing editors. The I/P dispute situation on this noticeboard seems to be spinning out of control, and may harming the editing of articles, making balanced content and NPOV ever less likely. 173.52.124.223 (talk) 11:48, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with #15. Nableezy did not accuse Rocalisi of anything but merely asked a simple question. Given the high incidence of socking in the i/p area (certainly much more than is uncovered) it wouldn't hurt to ask all new users that question. Zero 12:36, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

That question is always an accusation, and you would think so too if I asked you that in the context of an editing dispute. And the accusation is more than just an assumption of bad faith, it is a tool in WP:Battle. The perpetual filing of reports on this noticeboard, CU fishing expeditions, etc, is a way of wearing down the opposing team, and may indicate that some users are spending as much, or more, time wiki-lawering (which is disruptive) as editing articles. The entire process appears to be used as "a mere continuation of controlling content by other means," to paraphrase Carl von Clausewitz. 173.52.124.223 (talk) 13:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

A question isn't an accusation, that's oxymoronic. If you think that way you must find dealing with immigration officers at airports quite painful at times. The question Nableezy asked needs to be seen within the context of the Pan-Arabism article, an article and talk page that has been subjected to extensive and blatant policy violations by multiple editors and associated sockpuppets. Blatant policy violations aren't 'an editing dispute'. I often wonder, when it comes to the nationalist nonsense that goes on here, why these things are dignified with terms like 'content dispute'. It's not an 'editing dispute' to say that the planet is 6000 years old, evolution has never been observed etc etc, it's vandalism and it's dealt with immediately by editors with no drama and no admin involvement. Those editors are not participating in a battle, they are simply implementing policy. And yet, when it comes other topics, blatant and absurd policy violations and attempts to insert fringe nonsense become a 'content dispute'. If you are concerned about content editing and editor behavior at the Pan-Arabism article I suggest you volunteer your time to help keep things under control over there so that both the content and editor behavior comply with mandatory policy using the means available to do so in the interests of the project. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

In reply:

1. I have already explained that a question can be an accusation, and in this case it certainly was an accusation.
2. Your edit is filled with terms that prejudge the dispute, such as blatant policy violations, and multiple editors and associated sockpuppets, and nationalist nonsense, and it's vandalism, and blatant and absurd policy violations, and attempts to insert fringe nonsense, all of which statements suggest that you are very far from being a neutral player in this dispute.
3. I understand that you may feel strongly about the issues, and certainly your point of view needs to be represented in I/P articles for balance. But your implication in your edit above, that truth and good faith editing exist on your side only, seems not to be particularly constructive.

173.52.124.223 (talk) 11:42, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

No you haven't explained that a question can be an accusation. Just saying so doesn't make it so. I see no problem whatsoever with #15. All the person has to do is answer. Vexorg (talk) 16:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Your claiming that a question can not be an accusation is silly because that claim is so obviously false. See, for instance or or . As I have said already, I consider Nableezy's question an accusation, and a rather disruptive accusation, so in the context of arbcom enforcement articles that probably justifies sort of sanction. 173.52.124.223 (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

No the question is not an accusation, it's a question. An accusation is a statement not a question. note: I think IPs shouldn't be allowed to edit wikipedia. People should open an account. Vexorg (talk) 21:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

This discussion has been amusing, but nevertheless a waste of my time. Again, many times what appears to be a question is not a question at all, and such instances are often disguised accusations. Even a complete fool would know that asking a sock if he/she is a sock is not going to get an honest reply. And Nableezy is not a fool. He was apparently accusing a new user of being a sock in an attempt to intimidate. 173.52.124.223 (talk) 22:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

• No, you explained that a question can be an accusation to you and that you believe you can apply your model of self to others. You are welcome to that view but there is no reason to believe you.
• There aren't any terms that prejudge anything in my statement. The events I described have already happened, the terms I used are consistent with the events, I witnessed them along with others including an admin that locked the article and admin that blocked the sockpuppets. Like I said, you can go and have a look for yourself, make your own mind up about policy compliance rather than make statements based on your understanding of what language might suggest about events for which you have no knowledge and help out at the article to deal with the train wreck disruptive editors have caused and continue to cause.
• Your response and the way you understand information illustrates the problem here and why these battles persist. For example, you think I 'feel', care about 'truth', have a 'point of view' that 'needs to be represented' in articles, that I am on 'a side' etc etc. In fact, none of those things are the case. I just want everyone to follow policy, use reliable sources and keep their personal opinions to themselves. I'm not alone in this view by any means. These errors in the way people model and interpret other editor's statements, actions and motivations are far more irrational, damaging and policy non-compliant than asking someone who is edit warring on an article over the same information as blocked sockpuppets whether they have had an account before. I've lost count of the times someone has called me anti-Israeli or something similar for doing or saying something that is intended to increase policy compliance based on reliable sources. It's funny the first couple of times. So, yes, in that sense, just like many other editors, I'm not neutral at all on policy non-compliance and find editors who won't simply follow the rules irritating, frustrating and time consuming.
• Regarding constructive editing, this is another root cause of the persistent problem. It seems to me that many editors simply cannot recognise constructive, policy compliant editing. Case in point, Shuki's point #3 listed above. Shuki cannot recognise that these edits correct errors and increase policy compliance. Why can't Shuki recognise that these are constructive edits when it's entirely obvious that they are ? Who knows and it's a question I personally have no interest in whatsoever. I would just like the disruption to stop. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:21, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

• I think item 12 is the most concerning; I don't consider item 15 to be a problem. I think it would have been nicer to leave a welcome template, and then ask the question, but that sort of thing is hardly worthy of sanctions. PhilKnight (talk) 14:28, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I call upon Nableezy to keep on editing ME-related articles despite any "ruling" by admins. The spirit of Misplaced Pages rejects any such ruling and render it invalid. I just hope his next edits and arguments will be fair and less politically-motivated. DrorK (talk) 22:44, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't agree with this more. Of all editors, Nableezy and Drork are not the people who should be receiving topic bans here. The ludicrousness of this is actually mind boggling for me. Nableezy and Drork are two editors who actually bring positive contribution to this encyclopedia. Yes, I disagree with most things Nableezy edits. Yes, he often inserts things and makes comments on discussion pages that show his extreme POV on the issue. Yes, his user page promotes what I believe is a despicable message. However, with that said, and even with the fair number of disagreements I have had with him, he is still able to bring something good to the table and work issues out with other editors to come to some sort of collaboration and improvement to the article. Meanwhile, there are other editors who shall remain unnamed who bring absolutely NOTHING positive to Misplaced Pages, who have been blocked upwards of 10 times for the same infractions, who show NO signs of willingness to compromise and work together with editors who disagree with their POV, who make their WP:BATTLE mentality no secret and in fact seem proud of the fact that they are using Misplaced Pages to disseminate inaccurate information to demonize a certain side in the I-P conflict. It is these people who should be not only topic banned but fully blocked from Misplaced Pages because they are harming the project and making it impossible for other editors to work together. The last few months have seen things get much much worse because of a few mysteriously "new" editors who have turned the atmosphere between the two "sides" into the worst that I have ever seen it. And it is a real shame that they are allowed to reign on and succeed in their goal to cause conflict. If there is any good part of this all, it is that it reflects the real life I-P conflict. It is the minority of radical extremists who manage to get their way and hold onto power to ruin things for the rest of us, who are actually interested in working together towards a solution. What a shame. I guess that's the end of my rant... I guess that went pretty off topic but it needed to be said. Who knows, maybe I'll get blocked again now with the explanation that it was in line with arbitration enforcement. What a joke... Breein1007 (talk) 03:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

To quote WP's main page: Welcome to Misplaced Pages, the 💕 that anyone can edit. - 173.52.124.223 (talk) 23:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Huldra

• Regarding #12: it should be noted that that comment (and yes; it is not civil), is made by Nableezy on his own talk-page, in response to User:Drork posting there and accusing Nableezy of "mafia-like behavior" (and that is not very civil, either, IMO!). However, as anyone who has posted on Nableezy´s talk-page know, you see this sign, encircled in red, on top of the page before you post anything: "Notice: Civility does not exist on this page. If you feel the need to say something uncivil to me feel free to do so. Personal attacks too, though if you say something be prepared to either back it up or have a large collection of insults hurled at you. Be forewarned that I give as good as I get, though not quite as good as this" In other words; to me it looks as if two guys are just fighting it out between themselves, and both doing so quite willingly, and rest of us should just leave them alone. Or am I missing something? Of course, the whole idea that you can have a "civility-free zone", is another matter. But if Nableezy is going to be sanctioned on this, then at least make it clear that in the future no one can make their own talk-page a "civility-free" zone. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 05:23, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Nableezy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

In general I agree with George. This report is largely frivolous. The template instructs users to provide diffs and to explain how these diffs violate the remedy at issue; an entry like "Removing images" is no explanation at all and a waste of time and space; and "lies about naming conventions" is merely insulting. I'm inclined to close this with a warning for Shuki that they will be sanctioned if they continue to file abusive AE reports.

That said, there are three entries that are of concern:

• 12 is incivil.
• 13 is a 1RR violation. At 02:45, 11 April 2010 Nableezy removes the text "that marks the armistice lines" etc. that was previously added here, and at 23:54, 11 April 2010 Nableezy adds the text "which is internationally recognized" etc. that was previously removed here. These are two actions that "reverse the actions of other editors, in whole or in part", i.e., reverts as defined at WP:3RR.
• 14 is also a 1RR violation. The restriction applies to the area of conflict, which is the Arab-Israeli conflict. The article Pan-Arabism talks about that conflict a lot (just search for "Israel" in the current version of the article) and is therefore covered by the restriction.

So, unless other admins disagree, and taking into consideration Nableezy's problematic record, I will sanction Nableezy with a time-limited topic ban.  Sandstein  21:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Agree with Sandstein's assessment. Tim Song (talk) 05:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Gilabrand

Shuki

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Shuki

User requesting enforcement

--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:10, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Shuki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. first rv as can be seen here that its a rev:
2. second rv as can be seen here that its a rev:

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Not needed.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

block or bann.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

He made two reverts to the same article within one day, his restriction is that he is only allowed to one rv per day.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:08, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Shuki

Statement by Shuki

Comments by others about the request concerning Shuki

Comment—Seems like forum shopping to me. It is clear that the two edits were made one after the other, and they are not two separate reverts; not to mention, they are not even the same edit. I suggest that Supreme Deliciousness should receive a warning for unnecessary drama similar to the case that Mbz1 introduced just a short while ago. —Ynhockey 00:23, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Just because they were made after each other doesn't mean its not two reverts, And they don't have to be the same edits, each one is a revert on its own. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:26, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

"Consecutive reverts by one user with no intervening edits by another user count as one revert." Is part of the definition at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. You could argue that he modified two of your edits so the principle of him disrupting your work could apply. It would not be edit warring since there was no back and forth though. The lack of crossing a bright line makes this one a challenge.Cptnono (talk) 00:46, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Follow-up: I believe that SD believes that this is not frivolous. He probably shouldn't be restricted himself for a frivolous report even though the timing is suspect.Cptnono (talk) 05:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

• I believe that sequential reverts count at one, as Cptnono noted above, making this not a violation of 1RR. ← George 00:54, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
• This is clearly a single revert per WP:3RR. Supreme Deliciousness, please don't create unnecessary drama by bringing frivolous matters here. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 01:26, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok, sorry, I didn't know. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:20, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Shuki

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Frivolous report, as it is well-established that consecutive reverts count as one for 3RR/1RR purposes. Tim Song (talk) 05:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I have reverted Supreme Deliciousness's removal of this thread and advised him that any withdrawal should be noted as a comment. Editors are not entitled to remove threads in which other editors have commented.  Sandstein  08:37, 15 April 2010 (UTC)