| Revision as of 11:02, 14 June 2010 editJeffro77 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers31,570 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:50, 17 June 2010 edit undoAuthorityTam (talk | contribs)3,283 edits →Jehovah's Witnesses publications for evangelizing: Keep.Next edit → | ||
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| ] (]) 10:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC) | ] (]) 10:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC) | ||
| :As previously stated, it is sufficient to include an overview of JW literature at ], which can include any of the information to which you refer.--] (]) 11:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC) | :As previously stated, it is sufficient to include an overview of JW literature at ], which can include any of the information to which you refer.--] (]) 11:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC) | ||
| ] by ], and this one should be rejected also.<br /> | |||
| Editors unfamiliar with Jehovah's Witnesses should keep in mind that JWs release at least three or four new publications every year, and nearly every title has an initial run of several million. While those titles are not necessarily notable for Misplaced Pages's purposes, this article doesn't seek to discuss all those titles (the majority of those titles can properly be relegated to a mere list or a general discussion). These few titles (which are each discussed in a section of this article) are significantly more notable; each of these books has in turn been the '''primary bible study textbook''' of JWs (until its successor title was released). Every one of the titles has had a printing of nearly or in excess of a '''HUNDRED-MILLION''' copies (except 1946's ''"Let God Be True"''). In recent years these textbooks are distributed at no cost rather than "sold", but ''"]"'' is universally recognized as an all-time top-ten best-seller right behind the ]. See ] | |||
| Previous to the creation of this particular article, a couple of these notable publications of Jehovah's Witnesses each had an individual article. Among them: | |||
| * '']'' (130 million in print) | |||
| * '']'' (107 million "sold") | |||
| Ironically, except with the title "]" | |||
| So, the article material at ''"]"'' ( about JW's primary bible study textbook, a notable publication) was used by Jeffro77 to anchor his moments-earlier-created article ] At the same time (about 05:20, 10 May 2009), ], the above AfD nominator, also effectively "moved" the article material from ''"]"'' (about JW's earlier primary bible study textbook, a notable publication) | |||
| It would seem that Jeffro77 has bided his time for a year, at first merely diluting notable titles alongside others, but now relaunching his effort to delete detailed discussion of notable JW book titles, in this case books which each have a printing approaching or exceeding a HUNDRED-MILLION. Doesn't it seem remarkably odd to shoot directly for deletion without giving <nowiki>{{Template:Refimprove}}</nowiki> or a ] even a moment to work? Editors should be assured that it would be time-consuming but boringly straightforward to collect the dozens (perhaps hundreds) of additional references showing the notability of these titles. Again, odd that an AfD is the first choice of an experienced editor such as Jeffro77. Odd for an editor to try and delete an article he himself had created a year earlier. | |||
| Jeffro77 is himself a former Jehovah's Witnesses, having discussed as well as his and his claimed personal observations, such as how Regarding JW publications and JWs themselves, Jeffro77 has claimed that they and Before being rejected by an administrator, Jeffro's ] was only seconded by one other editor, ] aka , a self-described "ex-JW" editor who had previously declared himself "sickened" by the "claustrophobic, sycophantic, incestuous" Jehovah's Witnesses.<br /> | |||
| Editors and administrators who are less directly affected by Jehovah's Witnesses should reject the efforts of | |||
| (such as ]) to delete this article, as administrators have rejected similar AfD's in the past for titles such as ''"]"'' and ''"]"'' The fact is that Misplaced Pages is well-served by a detailed discussion of a handful of individually-notable but related publications. This discussion in this article should be in addition to a mere list or general discussion of the hundreds of other JW titles of lesser notability.<br /> | |||
| --] (]) 19:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 19:50, 17 June 2010
Jehovah's Witnesses publications for evangelizing
- Jehovah's Witnesses publications for evangelizing (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Insufficient third-party sources. Individual publications fail notability guideline for books. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Jehovah's_Witnesses#JW_publications Jeffro77 (talk) 08:11, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:20, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:20, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
- Delete, Misplaced Pages is not an evangelical resource for any religion. Guy (Help!) 14:43, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
- Keep Although I can appreciate Guy's concerns, I believe that one can write an encyclopedic article about evangelism in an impartial, non-evangelical tone. Although this is one of the smaller denominations (7 million people), it is, like the Mormons, one where the members are expected to be actively evangelical. For those who have ever seen the Land Shark skits from the original Saturday Night Live, I'm not ready to club the guy bringing "The Watchtower" to the door. Mandsford 18:57, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
- Sure you can, but it would need to be something other than a directory and sourced from independent sources. Which this isn't. Guy (Help!) 20:32, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
- This article isn't about evangelism, it's about specific books a particular religious group uses, with a lack of third-party sources, and I'm not aware of similar articles about publications used by other religious groups. This series of articles was originally created as a concession in lieu of separate articles about various non-notable JW literature. It is sufficient to include an overview of JW literature at the existing article, Jehovah's Witnesses publications.--Jeffro77 (talk) 01:12, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
I've just started looking for third-party references. I've found a couple already for "What Does the Bible Teach?" including "Winning the Witnesses" by Daniel Rodriquez. I have encountered opposition on other Jehovah's Witnesses pages when trying to delete unreferenced material, or decrease material based primarily on Watchtower Society (self-published) literature. If people were willing to make changes to the page, I think it could be saved. Mandmelon (talk) 10:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
- As previously stated, it is sufficient to include an overview of JW literature at Jehovah's Witnesses publications, which can include any of the information to which you refer.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
This again? A similar 2009 AfD by the same nominator was rejected by an administrator, and this one should be rejected also.
Editors unfamiliar with Jehovah's Witnesses should keep in mind that JWs release at least three or four new publications every year, and nearly every title has an initial run of several million. While those titles are not necessarily notable for Misplaced Pages's purposes, this article doesn't seek to discuss all those titles (the majority of those titles can properly be relegated to a mere list or a general discussion). These few titles (which are each discussed in a section of this article) are significantly more notable; each of these books has in turn been the primary bible study textbook of JWs (until its successor title was released). Every one of the titles has had a printing of nearly or in excess of a HUNDRED-MILLION copies (except 1946's "Let God Be True"). In recent years these textbooks are distributed at no cost rather than "sold", but "The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life" is universally recognized as an all-time top-ten best-seller right behind the Book of Mormon. See List of best-selling books#Between 100 million and 1 billion copies.
Previous to the creation of this particular article, a couple of these notable publications of Jehovah's Witnesses each had an individual article. Among them:
- What Does the Bible Really Teach?. (130 million in print)
- The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life. (107 million "sold")
Ironically, Jeffro77, the editor who here nominates this article for deletion, actually CREATED this article, except with the title "Jehovah's Witnesses publications for proselytizing".
So, the article material at "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" (the article since 2007 about JW's primary bible study textbook, a notable publication) was used by Jeffro77 to anchor his moments-earlier-created article Jehovah's Witnesses publications for proselytizing.. At the same time (about 05:20, 10 May 2009), Jeffro77, the above AfD nominator, also effectively "moved" the article material from "The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life" (about JW's earlier primary bible study textbook, a notable publication) to this same article which he now seeks to delete.
It would seem that Jeffro77 has bided his time for a year, at first merely diluting notable titles alongside others, but now relaunching his effort to delete detailed discussion of notable JW book titles, in this case books which each have a printing approaching or exceeding a HUNDRED-MILLION. Doesn't it seem remarkably odd to shoot directly for deletion without giving {{Template:Refimprove}} or a similar template even a moment to work? Editors should be assured that it would be time-consuming but boringly straightforward to collect the dozens (perhaps hundreds) of additional references showing the notability of these titles. Again, odd that an AfD is the first choice of an experienced editor such as Jeffro77. Odd for an editor to try and delete an article he himself had created a year earlier.
Jeffro77 is himself a former Jehovah's Witnesses, having discussed his "firsthand experience" with expulsion from the religion, as well as his "close contact" and his claimed personal observations, such as how "elderly Witnesses are largely ignored". Regarding JW publications and JWs themselves, Jeffro77 has claimed that they evade taxes, inflate their statistics, abuse human rights, receive "emotional coercion", are "pharisaic", and "morally bereft". Before being rejected by an administrator, Jeffro's 2009 AfD was only seconded by one other editor, BlackCab aka LTSally, a self-described "ex-JW" editor who had previously declared himself "sickened" by the "claustrophobic, sycophantic, incestuous" Jehovah's Witnesses.
Editors and administrators who are less directly affected by Jehovah's Witnesses should reject the efforts of
a former JW (such as Jeffro77) to delete this article, as administrators have rejected similar AfD's in the past for titles such as "Shining as Illuminators in the World". and "Aid to Bible Understanding". The fact is that Misplaced Pages is well-served by a detailed discussion of a handful of individually-notable but related publications. This discussion in this article should be in addition to a mere list or general discussion of the hundreds of other JW titles of lesser notability.
--AuthorityTam (talk) 19:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)