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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning William M. Connolley

User requesting enforcement

Cla68 (talk) 22:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

William M. Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. - Removes source that is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines and had not been used to source controversial material, but, in fact, had been used to source previously unsourced material without any alteration to the text.
2. Violates WP:BLP by calling author "fringe" with no evidence whatsoever to support his position. In fact, as shown in the book's article, the book has received only positive reviews, no negative ones. And one prestigious scientist, Judith Curry, has recommended the book in a blog post.

Enforcement action requested

Correct the behavior

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

• Here's the thing that makes it clear WMC is acting disingenuously. He removed the source as a citation for text that was already present, and unsourced, in the article. In fact, I believe that it was text that WMC has previously added himself. If I had added something controversial to the article using the book, then I could understand the objection, but that is not what happened. I made no change to the existing text whatsoever when adding the citation. Therefore, it appears that WMC would rather see the text remain uncited than use a source that meets our guidelines but to which he personally doesn't approve of. He has previously made this clear. Clearly a bad faith, partisan edit.

Discussion concerning William M. Connolley

Statement by William M. Connolley

Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley

Cla is forgetting to mention several things here:

1. There is an ongoing discussion about the reference on Talk:Hockey_stick_controversy#New_source. Where his assertion that the reference (a book) is considered a reliable source for the article is very much in doubt. Cla is inserting this reference despite the ongoing discussion, where he is very aware of the controversial nature of the book.
2. Curry's comment isn't a blog post.... But a blog comment, and is not a reliable source even to Curry's opinion.
3. Curry is remarking not on the reliability of the book. She freely admits that she hasn't followed the debate (and isn't an expert on it).
4. Curry also remarks that the book has been ignored by scientists in general ... because they consider it irrelevant.
5. Curry's recommendation about reading the book, is for people (scientists) to gain an understanding of the non-scientific viewpoint, specifically that presented by (what she calls) "citizen-scientists", and more specifically the one presented at climateaudit.org.

--Kim D. Petersen (talk) 23:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

This strikes me as a disingenuous request. As I've been tangentially involved in the discussions concerning this issue, I'd like to offer a perspective on it. This concerns a citation from a book, The Hockey Stick Illusion, that (as the title indicates) argues against the famous "hockey stick" graph. The book's position has negligible support among scientists. It is written by a blogger with no expertise in this particular field or scientific expertise in general. It has received only a handful of reviews and passing mentions confined exclusively to news opinion writers with a track record of "scepticism" concerning climate science. It has been ignored entirely by general media reviewers and the scientific press. It has not, as far as I can tell, been cited as a source by any other published works.

WP:V requires articles to use "sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". A handful of editors, notably Marknutley and Cla68, argue in effect that the burden of proof is on other editors to demonstrate that a source does not have such a reputation. As an experienced editor, Cla68 knows perfectly well that this is a reversal of the normal burden of proof required by WP:V, which states: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material.". WMC's removal of the material in question is clearly in accordance with WP:V, and as the discussion at Talk:Hockey stick controversy#New source shows, there is strong opposition from other editors to the use of a fringe source. Cla68 appears to have made no attempt to take this to the reliable sources noticeboard for review. There clearly isn't anything actionable here - Cla68 should be told to resolve this through normal dispute resolution procedures rather than running here to make yet another enforcement request. Frankly, this looks like another episode in an ongoing vendetta. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:27, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

O dear Chris, you missed a bit from wp:v here also, must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. As the book is reliable under wp policy then WMC was wrong to remove the cite mark nutley (talk) 23:50, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Mark, nobody is disputing that material "must be attributed to a reliable, published source". The question is whether the source in question is reliable. WP:V states clearly that the onus is on you to demonstrate that. You have not done so. That is what the dispute is about. Furthermore, it seems that only you and Cla68 are seeking to use this source. Six other editors, including myself, have opposed that. That is a clear consensus. It is not WMC who is being disruptive removing that material; it is you and Cla68 who are being disruptive by trying to impose your views on a consensus of editors. That seems to me to be a violation of at least the spirit of the CC article probation. Cla68 was ill-advised to bring this matter here, since his role in this matter is not a commendable one. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:04, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

You guys are avoiding the important point here. I didn't use the book to add anything new to the article. I used it to source content that was already there and had been there for a long time, presumably added by WMC himself since he was one of the major contributors to the article. Also, WMC violated BLP by calling the author "fringe." A quick check of the article itself shows that there has been a lot of controversy surrounding the hockey stick graph, including hearings before the US Congress. Montford is making no statement on the veracity of the theory of human-caused warming, he is only commenting on the hockey stick research. I believe this is why the editors above have been unable to come up with any sources to meet their assertions that Montford is "fringe" on this subject, because he isn't. But to repeat, I used the book to source uncontroversial text, and that's why WMC's edit is a problem and an example of bad faith editing. Cla68 (talk) 00:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

No, we aren't "avoiding" it. You clearly chose to insert a subpar reference - that you knew from the talk-page (and from earlier discussions) to be extremely controversial. Why you chose to do so - is something that i'd rather not speculate on - since i'm struggling to keep assuming good faith. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 00:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

You know perfectly well that it's not a violation of BLP to call an author "fringe". We do this all the time. We even have a guideline on fringe theories and opinions and a fringe theories noticeboard. We have to assess what weight a particular source has - whether it's mainstream or, yes, on the fringes. Saying whether a particular author is fringe or mainstream is nothing more than the normal process of assessing the weight of a source. It's simply tendentious to claim otherwise. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow - I can't believe that Cla68 is still trying to pass that blog comment off as a "blog post". Guettarda (talk) 00:41, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

It appears that WMC and others are applying their own POV filter to evaluate what would otherwise be considered a reliable source. Tendentious editing, plain and simple. ATren (talk) 02:51, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

As far as I see WMC's reversal of a wp:rs source should immedately be reversed. If he is unhappy with this obvious rs-source he should take it to the rs noticeboard for an evaluation. Nsaa

• This is clearly not a reliable source, it was a comment on a blog - could be anyone, etc. Verbal chat 14:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

This is a content dispute and doesn't belong here. The first cited diff relates back to a lengthy talk page discussion. The second set relates to a discussion as to whether, in discussion of a possible source, it is a "violation of BLP" to call the book's author "fringe." To call that a "BLP violation" is to stretch the limits of BLP to the breaking point. This is now one of two enforcement actions brought against editors in the opposing CC faction without justifiable basis by Cla68. He/she needs to be sanctioned with a prohibition against bringing meritless enforcement cases. ScottyBerg (talk) 14:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

The underlying issue here is pretty simple. In the first example, there's an ongoing discussion about the the suitability of Montford's book as a source for the article. Cla68 chose to ignore the discussion and boldly insert the source. In a similar vein, WMC reverted the addition of what he sees as a dubious source. Since Cla68 already knew that the source was considered dubious by other editors, it is his insertion, not WMC's revert, which merits attention.

In the second example, Cla68's argument is predicated on a falsehood. Worse yet, it's a falsehood he knows to be false. It's not a blog post, it's a blog comment. Not to mention that, assuming that the author actually was Curry, the comment was aimed at a specific individual and wasn't an endorsement of the book. This has been discussed at length. Cla68 is aware of at least some of this discussion. So the issue here isn't just bringing bogus enforcement requests - also at issue here is the fact that he would make statements that he should know are false, in an attempt to get another editor sanctioned. That sort of an attempt to game the system should not be tolerated. Guettarda (talk) 14:54, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

It's a published book! You They are evaluating that book with your their own POV filter and rejecting it. It doesn't even matter what Curry thinks, Cla just added that as supporting documentation on the validity of the book as a source. You are derailing the primary discussion, which is the removal of the book source. ATren (talk) 15:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm not "evaluating the book". I made no comment on the book. I'm commenting on Cla68's filing. The rest of it is just WP:BRD. Guettarda (talk) 15:48, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I've refactored per your request here, but I stand by my statement that the Curry issue is a distraction that undercuts the main issue of tendentious editing. ATren (talk) 16:01, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Can the uninvolved admins please comment on this: why is a published book being removed as a source? On what basis? It's certainly not policy based, as published books are certainly valid, so what's the justification other than it does not fit through the POV filter of some editors? At the very least, it is tendentious editing, which is sanctionable ATren (talk) 15:18, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

No, it is not the function of this board to rule on content disputes. That is why I am so annoyed about this forum being misused to make a content case. If the contention is that a published book is automatically reliable source, I'd very much like to see the basis of that, and I'd certainly participate in a discussion on that point. In the appropriate forum, which is not here. ScottyBerg (talk) 15:29, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

But tendentious editing IS sanctionable here, and the behavior is clearly tendentious. In fact, I may bring the Lawrence Solomon case here, another clear example of tendentious editing by WMC. Your allegation that this complaint is a misuse is wrong. ATren (talk) 15:34, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

That is correct ATren, tendentious editing is sanctionable - but strangely enough WMC isn't the one acting against a consensus.... That seems to be you (without contributing to the discussion), Mark and Cla. Inserting a controversial item without searching for consensus is tendentious - and that goes no matter whether the source is acceptable or not. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 15:39, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Controversial? Really? Adding a published book as supporting reference for existing content which was already sourced -- that's controversial, but continuously removing that source based solely on one's own POV filter is not? Interesting view. ATren (talk) 15:44, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Again, "tendentious editing" is shorthand, in this context, for "content dispute." What's before his forum are two specific instances of alleged "violations," both of which are extreme in their lack of merit. If there is a belief that his pattern of editing is "tendentious," the arbitration case page is the place for that. ScottyBerg (talk) 15:48, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

This board has before ruled that acting against consensus on a controversial issue and edit-warring on it - is tendentious - and subject to possible sanctions. Those are all issues that can be assessed and addressed without commenting or examining the content issue. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 17:02, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Then in that case, the remedy is to bring a case specifying that charge, against Cla68 if I understand you correctly, rather than raising it in the midst of a case against WMC. This one is getting too messy, and should be closed. Personally, though, I'd like to see a moratorium on these enforcement cases pending arbcom decision. ScottyBerg (talk) 14:33, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yes, ATren. Controversial. And Cla68 knew that - since he had been in a multitude of discussions about that source. It doesn't really matter who is correct in that discussion, since that doesn't impact the controversial nature. Do please note the discussion on the talk page - where the consensus was against Cla68, and despite this he inserted the source . See my comment further up. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 15:51, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Controversial only because it disagrees with your own POV. Certainly not controversial from a policy standpoint, especially not in this article (which is about the controversy) and especially not for the uncontroversial claim it supports. The controversy is purely manufactured by you and a few other editors who happen to share the same POV. ATren (talk) 15:56, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Sorry? I "manufactured" this? You are trying to move the goal-posts - but do take that up elsewhere, since it is a rather extreme accusation. Back to reality: Talk page consensus was against Cla - Cla ignores and inserts - gets reverted - Cla reverts back. That seems to be tendentious editing. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 16:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning William M. Connolley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators and is not to be used by others to conduct discusson or debate. Comments by non-admins, and any discussion or debate by other than uninvolved administrators, will be moved to the section above. Adminstrators engaged in extended discussion or debate, especially if not directly related to the proposed outcome, should strongly consider using the above sections.

There is disagreement as to the acceptability of any threaded discussions in this section. Please see Template_talk:Climate_Sanction_enforcement_request before engaging in any threaded discussions.

• What violation of policy, Probation, or individual restriction is being presented here? Doctor Connolley has a 1RR restriction (I believe) as well as some civility parole, but I don't see either being invoked. The closest to a issue I can see is the potential BLP violation, but I still don't see this as being more than a content dispute presently. If it is an allegation of being obstructive and obstinate, then there is an ArbCom ongoing for that sort of thing. LessHeard vanU (talk) 14:07, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
• Agree with ScottBerg in his analysis of the diffs above, though not necessarily with his conclusion at this point. NW (Talk) 14:39, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

 · Don't be inconsiderate · Don't call a spade a spade · Don't call the kettle black · Don't take the bait · Do not insult the vandals · Just drop it · Don't edit war over the colour of templates · Don't be ashamed · Don't drink the consensus Kool-Aid · Don't feed the divas · Don't stuff beans up your nose · Don't spite your face · Don't revert due to "no consensus" · Do not call things cruft · No angry mastodons · Don't be an ostrich · Don't be a fanatic · Don't accuse someone of a personal attack for accusing of a personal attack · Don't fight fire with fire · Don't be prejudiced

Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 13:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Hipocrite

User requesting enforcement

mark nutley (talk) 15:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Hipocrite (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Accuses Patrick Michaels of slandering others.
2. ...

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Request the remarks be removed and Hipocrite be reminded not to make such statements.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I have asked him twice to remove the remarks, he has not.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Hipocrite

Statement by Hipocrite

That's not what I said. Read carefully. Hipocrite (talk) 16:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC) But, in order to appease mark, I've edited my comment. Hipocrite (talk) 16:07, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Hipocrite

• MN is already under sanction not to bring RFE's against me. Perhaps it should be extended William M. Connolley (talk) 16:07, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Hipocrite

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators and is not to be used by others to conduct discusson or debate. Comments by non-admins, and any discussion or debate by other than uninvolved administrators, will be moved to the section above. Adminstrators engaged in extended discussion or debate, especially if not directly related to the proposed outcome, should strongly consider using the above sections.

There is disagreement as to the acceptability of any threaded discussions in this section. Please see Template_talk:Climate_Sanction_enforcement_request before engaging in any threaded discussions.

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning William M. Connolley

User requesting enforcement

Off2riorob (talk) 18:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

William M. Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

TheGoodLocust, MarkNutley, WMC

totally unexplained revert of cited content.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

User has multiple warnings and is already on restrictive editing parole. This report is for a violation of the editors previous notified restrictions.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Enforcement action requested - as per Administrative consensus as regards level of parole violation.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I attempted to discuss these problems with WMC on his talkpage but imo didn't recieve a fair reply. Here for example, edit summary of "Sorry, bored now. You've done yuor fishing, you can now run off" failed to fill me full of good wishes.

WMC reverted a good faith contribution which included three supporting citations, he did so without any comment or explanation at all, this is in clear violation of his editing probation which states, "Until 2010-08-03 William M. Connolley is required to initiate or participate in discussion at the relevant talkpage any time he makes a revert to any article in the probation area, excepting to revert blatant, obvious vandalism." seen here , this contribution was in no way, clear , obvious vandalism as described in WP:VANDALISM and is a clear violation of his editing probation. Off2riorob (talk) 18:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

notification of the user under report

Discussion concerning William M. Connolley

Statement by William M. Connolley

Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley

• I would think that stating or implying that Mars has an atmosphere full of greenhouse gas which should be causing global warming would be clear, obvious vandalism. I'm pretty sure we went over Mars' (lack of) atmosphere in primary school. Heck, one of the sources cited even leads off by discussing the very low atmospheric pressure. - MrOllie (talk) 19:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

  There is no way, per WP:VANDALISM that this can be considered "clear, obvious vandalism". Per that policy, "Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism. Even harmful edits that are not explicitly made in bad faith are not vandalism. For example adding a controversial personal opinion to an article is not vandalism". Thparkth (talk) 19:41, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

  Doing a quick, back of the envelope calculation, using the relative pressure of the atmosphere, and the relative proportions of CO₂, it looks like Mars had 15 times as much CO₂ per ft as Earth. It isn't quite this simple, but the statement doesn't sound all that crazy.--SPhilbrickT 22:02, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• The text that WMC reverted was clearly faulty - an unfortunate example of POV by synthesis that produces a grossly misleading conclusion (yes, Mars does have a 95% CO2 atmosphere but at most it's only 1% of the density of the Earth's and obviously far less than Venus's). WMC shouldn't have done a straight rollback as it wasn't vandalism but the addition was so poor that he was right to remove it. The primary fault here was in the anonymous IP editor adding SYN material. WMC's removal of the material was the correct decision but the way he went about it was flawed. However, I don't think it rises to the level of a sanctionable offence. I suggest that this be closed with a reminder to all editors to provide edit summaries when they are not removing simple vandalism, per Help:Edit summary#Always provide an edit summary. -- ChrisO (talk) 19:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
• WMC's science is sound, and his decision to remove the material from the article was a good one, which improved the article. As so often it was his manner which caused friction. This was not blatant vandalism, and he should not have dealt with it as if it was. Thparkth (talk) 19:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• The text reverted may (for the sake of argument only) have been faulty, however it was not blatant, obvious vandalism. WMC is on an editing restriction or probation that requires that he post a comment on any revert that is not blatant, obvious vandalism. It was clearly a violation and based on his past history, he should be sanctioned. GregJackP Boomer! 19:51, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• The text reverted was not only faulty, it was a BLP violation making false accusations about a respected scientist, had a blatantly unsupported claim about "many occasions" referenced to once occasion, and was obvious synthesis. Agree that an informative edit summary would have been the right thing to do and might have avoided GregJackP's unfortunate restoration of the defective text. . . dave souza, talk 19:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• See here, (2002) "We can compare the Earth's climate to Venus, to Mars and we can look at going from glacial to interglacial periods." See S Langerfeld (1988). "Coping with change". The Wilson Quarterly (5): 117–128. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |vol= ignored (|volume= suggested) (help) "CO2 leaves Mars frigid and dry, while an overabundance of it makes Venus a furnace." (quoting Watson), see also here, C-SPAN video, there are other sources available. I did not do the original search for sourcing the material on the original post, the anon IP did, but the statement "many occasions" was correct, it was not negative, and it was most assuredly not false. Had I done the original post, I would have included additional sources, but the issue here is that WMC reverted material that was not blatant, obvious vandalism without complying with his editing restriction. The rest of this is just smoke and mirrors. GregJackP Boomer! 20:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

"This view is in conflict with our basic understanding of Mars." That was in your edit. What source do you have for that? Hipocrite (talk) 20:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

That one sentence was obviously WP:SYNTH and it was an unfortunate remnant from the text that GregJackP was improving. It was clearly a good faith edit and not blatant vandalism and should not have been reverted by WMC in violation of his probation. It shouldn't be used as a springboard for an all out edit war either, right? Minor4th • talk 21:35, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

You're under the mistaken impression that I reverted GJP. I didn't. Please take the time to familiarise yourself with the facts before commenting William M. Connolley (talk) 21:46, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Same exact comment applies to your reversion of the IP. WP:SYNTH is not blatant vandalism. Minor4th • talk 21:51, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

No, because I don't accept that the anon edit was good faith (I accept that GJP's was erroneous but in good faith) William M. Connolley (talk) 21:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Why not? You have absolutely no knowledge of that IP editor, so how can you immediately assume bad faith? ATren (talk) 14:18, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

On that basis, all vandalism is done in good faith. As is all introduction of factually incorrect and improperly sourced smearing of living persons into their biographies. . dave souza, talk 17:09, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

• I strongly disagree with the conclusions that this addition was not vandalism - one of the sites linked in the edit to justify that "This view is in conflict with our basic understanding of Mars" was , which leads with "Mars has a very thin atmosphere," and says "On the other hand, the martian atmosphere results in only a weak greenhouse effect that raises the surface temperature by about 5°C over what it would be without any atmosphere at all." When people write false defamatory information about living persons on the encyclopedia, link to sites that say the exact opposite of what they alledge those sites say, that is sneaky BLP vandalism. Period. Defending people who use Misplaced Pages to defame living persons is highly problematic. Hipocrite (talk) 19:59, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• This looks like a clear violation of WMC's probation. He reverted what was obviously a good faith attempt to improve the article and made no attempt to explain why he performed the revert. I'm not sure what WMC was thinking. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 20:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• You have got to be kidding me. Not only was the IP's contribution, wrong, a synthesis and rather obviously designed to denigrate a scientist. But there are actual editors here who have turned it into an edit-war? WMC should've made an edit-summary, since it is not blatantly obvious vandalism, but instead subtle vandalism. WMC clearly broke the letter - but not the spirit of his probation. But that there are editors here who will defend the IP's edit, to "get at" WMC is both tendentious and quite frankly disgusting. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 21:07, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• Good faith is a good thing to do, but being wrong is the worst thing an encyclopedia can be. WMC clicked the wrong button to make this encyclopedia better. So what? Tell him to use the unambiguously right one next time. Check. OK. Done. This is a discussion of a technicality. (AQFK: I'm sure that someone could help you find a book that would explain this; it's classical mechanics.) If we are going to punish WMC because he reverted something that was blatantly wrong and made the encyclopedia better, probation or no, I think that it's time for me to stop contributing here because bureaucratic uselessness will have won over the integrity of the content, and that is absolutely unacceptable to me. Awickert (talk) 20:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

You treat this as if it were the first offense of an otherwise blemish-free editor. He was on strict 1RR for a reason, and he violated it. Furthermore, had he explained his reasoning right away, we might have avoided the edit war. ATren (talk) 14:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I do know WMC. I am treating this as someone who bent (broke) the rules to make WP more factually accurate. And I am 100% OK with that; WP:IAR and all that. I agree with you that it would have been better had he explained himself and it could have avoided friction with the rules. But I don't have much patience for people who make articles wrong because they don't know what they're talking about. The blame for screwing things up (accidental or no) lies with them. Bottom line: WMC made WP better, and I don't care about "due procces" because all that matters is that the final product is factually accurate. Awickert (talk) 16:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

@ Atren, WMC didn't violate 1RR, he made one revert. Check the article history. . dave souza, talk 17:09, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning William M. Connolley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators and is not to be used by others to conduct discusson or debate. Comments by non-admins, and any discussion or debate by other than uninvolved administrators, will be moved to the section above. Adminstrators engaged in extended discussion or debate, especially if not directly related to the proposed outcome, should strongly consider using the above sections.

There is disagreement as to the acceptability of any threaded discussions in this section. Please see Template_talk:Climate_Sanction_enforcement_request before engaging in any threaded discussions.

I have full protected this for one week given there's an ongoing arb case. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

From my review of the ArbCom pages, I note that Rlevse refers to protecting the Watson article and making a special dispensation for adding evidence relating to the recent editing of that article in the ArbCom Evidence pages. As such, I suggest closing this Request as superceded. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:51, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Marknutley

User requesting enforcement

Hipocrite (talk) 20:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Marknutley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. - "This view is in conflict with our basic understanding of Mars." Aledges that Watson's statement that Mars has insubstantal Greenhouse effect is an error on his part. This is factually incorrect - Watson is correct, and the IP vandal who intitally made this statement is just vanadalizing (, , , and I could keep going for days) - and it is defamatory to accuse a scientist of making such a basic error. Mark is no stranger to using wikipedia to defame living persons.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Unnecessary for this user

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Indefinite ban from all biographies of living persons in the topic space.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Cut the cord, already.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Marknutley

Statement by Marknutley

This is an obvious attempt to distract from WMC`s parole violation, lets actually look at the facts shall we. User:Verbal reverts User:GregJackP with the edit summary Material is not well sourced and is UNDUE / unbalanced. Take to talk please So i look at the refs, and see NASA and The Guardian. I looked on talk and saw Verbal had not bothered to post there, just the usual bickering going on. So yes i reverted. I however have not broken my probation as is being suggested. The sources were already in the article and used by Gregjack, who i believe is an editor in good standing. mark nutley (talk) 22:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Mark, I'm not suggesting you broke your sourcing probation, I'm suggesting you included false, defamatory information on the bio of a living person, and that this is a pattern of behavior. Hipocrite (talk) 22:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I never said you said i was breaking my sourcing parole, not everything is about you. Your hysterical claims of defamation are a joke as there was none. This is just as i said, a lame attempt to claim BLP and save wmc`s arse from breaking his restrictions. Not surprising really is it, when he gets pulled up here i`m the go to guy to carry the can. mark nutley (talk) 22:27, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Marknutley

Saying a scientist is wrong is not defamation. Scientists do it all the time. (Part of the whole progress thing.) If this was the reasoning you used for excluding this piece of text when you confronted MN then I'm not surprised he wasn't swayed. That said, I do think the text MN added goes against WP:SYN. And if the Watson quote is not in the audio file... well that's frustrating.--Heyitspeter (talk) 20:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The text in question is "This view is in conflict with our basic understanding of Mars." That's not synthesis, it's fabrication, it's wrong, and it's defamatory. Hipocrite (talk) 20:55, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Play-by-play to show where I'm at. It's synthesis because that policy states, "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources," which is exactly what the text MN added does here by using a NASA factsheet to disprove a statement from another source. If by fabrication you mean MN finds stuff in the audio file that isn't actually there, that's a problem per WP:OR, which states that "you must be able to cite reliable published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and that directly support the material as presented." Is that what you're saying? Did you listen to the audio to make sure? I'm not really clear on that from your statement. Whether it's wrong or not doesn't really matter as per WP:V. It's certainly not defamatory for reasons I've already stated.--Heyitspeter (talk) 21:32, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

HiP, the fabrication is "This view is in conflict with our basic understanding of Mars," since it's not in conflict with our basic understanding of Mars. Accusing a Scientist of not knowning our basic understanding of Mars is defamatory. There is no source that states that the view is in conflict with our basic understanding of Mars - thus, that's not synthesis (which would be if we took sources that discussed mars and Co2, and sources that discussed Mars and Watson, and used that to say Watson and Co2), it's fabrication - no source says Mars is hot because of Co2. Hipocrite (talk) 21:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Look, the text being added is pretty obviously wrong to those who understand the issue, but if you look on the talk page, there is no attempt to explain the very simple misconception here: that 95% of Martian's sparse atmosphere is still a very small absolute number. Would it have been so hard to simply leave a short message on talk explaining this? It's also WP:SYN, so that could have been stated as well. A short message could have saved a lot of thrashing around. Instead, all the responses were of the "you don't know what you're talking about" variety, which was true but not at all helpful in resolving the dispute. ATren (talk) 21:16, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Let's focus on the facts - mark was reinserting false, defamatory information about living persons even after he was being told that it was false, defamatory information about living persons. You admit that mark didn't know what he was talking about when he inserted the false, defamatory information about living persons. But hey - if mark gets banned from all CC BLP's, I'll put explanatory text for all of my reverts on talk pages. Sound like a deal to you? Hipocrite (talk) 21:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

How about we up the ante: let's permanently topic ban anyone in this topic who has violated sourcing policy to insert defamatory info into a BLP. ATren (talk) 21:55, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like you're prepping some kind of gotchya against me, but I guess I'm set up for it. What edit of mine from the long long ago would you like to use to distract the reviewers? Hipocrite (talk) 21:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

It's not directed at you; it's directed at everyone who has played fast-and-loose with sourcing in BLPs in this topic area. This is not a new problem in this topic area. ATren (talk) 22:05, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Then I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I don't want WMC editing bios of living skeptics either. There, can we refocus on Marknutley editing bios of living scientists? Thanks. Hipocrite (talk) 22:08, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, then let's campaign to ban both: WMC from skeptics and MN from mainstream. That would go a long way to fixing this mess. ATren (talk) 05:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I think the main point is that MN is deliberately re-introducing factually incorrect information into a BLP. The best you can say in his defence is that he doesn't understand the material. Which I think brings us on to the second point, which is that his edits are (yet another) violation of his sourcing parole William M. Connolley (talk) 21:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Marknutley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators and is not to be used by others to conduct discusson or debate. Comments by non-admins, and any discussion or debate by other than uninvolved administrators, will be moved to the section above. Adminstrators engaged in extended discussion or debate, especially if not directly related to the proposed outcome, should strongly consider using the above sections.

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Per my comments at the WMC Request above, since ArbCom has decided to allow evidence on the matter of the editing of the Watson article then this request should be closed as superceded. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning William M. Connolley

User requesting enforcement

mark nutley (talk) 10:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

William M. Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Accusation of being a proxy for socks. He is on a civility parole and this most certainly breaks it.
2. just don't contribute to these discussions. I believe this is also a violation of his civility parole.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

No diff`s he already knows about this

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

I want his civility parole enforced

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I also want that accusation removed

• Comment Bozmo says i should have been rebuked. WMC had already done that Dispite having been told multiple times to not post on my talk page. So as i had already been rebuked then why was it followed up with that PA? mark nutley (talk) 11:45, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

You kind of have a point although I am not clear that the "proxying" bit was a PA (I am a bit vague on terminology), he was aggressively defending the talk page rebuke he had done more than anything else... The trouble with all this storm in a teacup stuff is that Scibaby will be laughing into his hot chocolate at all the disruption caused by his comments. I would rather it disappeared to be honest. --BozMo talk 12:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I`ll give you odds of ten to one that the guy using all the pointy names in not scibaby. It`s not his MO is it? This guy is creating specific user names to make a point about a certain editors habits. If you want it to just disappear then enforce WMC`s civility parole, order him to remove the PA and let him know if it continues then escalating blocks will follow. mark nutley (talk) 12:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning William M. Connolley

Statement by William M. Connolley

MN restored an edit by Scibaby. By my defn of the word, that is "proxying". If you weasel your defn, you might decide it isn't proxing. Either way round, the correct solution to this is for MN to apologise for restoring the Scibaby edit, and do his best to learn from that not to do so again, rather than raise yet another unproductive enforcement request.

As for the second diff: a rather fuller version is @MN: I don't think that comment adds anything to the discussion. Please remember your parole and why it was imposed, and just don't contribute to these discussions. There is a problem on the talk pages: MN persists in showing up and arguing that any old source, as long as it is "skeptic", is fine. And reliable. And so on. His contributions to these debates are always noise. And there is a reason for that: MN is on don't-add-sources sanction, because he has provably, time and again, failed to understand sources and our sourcing policy.

William M. Connolley (talk) 12:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley

Reverting an edit by an accused sock is not a violation of anything - it only indicates that the person making the edit assumes responsibility for the edit. It is most assuredly not "poxying" for a sock, nor should anyone who makes such an edit be accused of "proxying" for a sock. WP:PROXYING refers only to acting at the behest of a banned editor - such an accusation is an accusation of violating WP policy, and hence should only be raised at a noticeboard, not bandied about otherwise. One of the prime issues at arbitration is civility - and this is one more example to place there if it is not acted upon here. Collect (talk) 12:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't reverting an edit exactly, was it? It was reinstating a signed talk page comment by the sock. Since the edit was signed by the sock you cannot say Mark was really taking responsibility for it. Restoring a signed statement by a banned sock to a talk page, leaving it signed by the sock might well be proxying. I think. Maybe. --BozMo talk 12:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

At the time i reverted he had not been banned as a sock. mark nutley (talk) 12:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

True but unless I am mistaken 23 minutes before your revert the user had already been marked as a suspected Scibaby sock on his userpage. --BozMo talk 12:33, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Bozmo, just about every new editor who comes into the CC area gets called scibaby. It still does not excuse the accusation that i proxy for blocked users does it mark nutley (talk) 12:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The user was already pretty disruptive. I do not think you should have restored talk page comments by a disruptive user who had already been tagged as a Scibaby sock. I am not clear about proxying (restoring a signed comment without quote marks might be proxying) nor about the PA (since the assertion was that you had done something not that you were something). If you had come to me I would have thrown the complaint out but LHvU is a serious admin and obviously thinks there is an unjustified PA here so I am open-minded waiting for the arguments. --BozMo talk 12:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Sorry Bozmo, his assertion is that it is something i am doing Having him proxy for socks isn't great That is not past tense, that is an accusation of ongoing proxying. I asked LHVU as i saw he was online. WMC was asked yesterday to remove that comment. It is still on his talk page. His refusal to remove it and force me to jump through hoops to have it removed id also disruptive and a waste of peoples time. mark nutley (talk) 12:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Get it over with now and enforce the probation, WMC has learned nothing. Way to much time invested in this editor's behavior problems. Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 12:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree with ZP5. WMC is a huge time sink and a drain on the community's resources. I'm trying to work on getting one of my articles up to WP:GA status and adding sources to an unsourced WP:BLP, not to mention my regular contributions to WP:RSN. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would be a hell of a lot more productive on Misplaced Pages if we didn't have to deal with WMC's constant behavioral problems. I recommend a 48 hour block until ArbCom decides what to do with him. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 12:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

What on earth has this got to do with you? If you've got something better to do - go and do it. Making unproductive edits on this talk page helps no-one. You'd be better off asking MN not to restore Scibaby edits - then we could ahve avoided all this disruption in the first place William M. Connolley (talk) 12:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

• This is such minor quibbling over the very edges of civility/bureaucracy that it is counterproductive to keep it going whilst the previous two requests which may even have more validity than this have been superceeded. I also come from the viewpoint that previous enforcement decisions concerning MN and WMC are pretty shaky and continuing these penalties has created this sort of marginal "let's get this person blocked" sort of rubbish we see here (both with rspect to MN and WMC). Polargeo (talk) 12:49, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

• Lets see: We have a sockpuppet making a talk-page edit, which is removed. Mark reinstates the talk-page comment by the suspected sock.... And people are actually claiming that the problem is WMC? Has common sense left the building? Mark should be cautioned for this, since he quite apparently doesn't understand what is wrong about his action, and that should be it (unless he does it again). --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 12:58, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

• May I suggest that it may be best to wait and see what happens in the ArbCom case? It may very well be a moot argument since whatever they do will likely trump whatever is determined here. Just a suggestion. GregJackP Boomer! 16:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning William M. Connolley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators and is not to be used by others to conduct discusson or debate. Comments by non-admins, and any discussion or debate by other than uninvolved administrators, will be moved to the section above. Adminstrators engaged in extended discussion or debate, especially if not directly related to the proposed outcome, should strongly consider using the above sections.

FWIW this concerns where Mark reinstated a talk page comment by a Scibaby sock on grounds that CU had not yet taken place. LHvU has, if I understand correctly, already said on his talk page he thinks WMC describing this as "proxying for a sock" in these circumstances is a PA. I have already said proxying looks like the wrong word but MN shouldn't be reverting deletions of sock contributions and some rebuke was needed. Various others have commented here. At this stage I have nothing to add to what I said when it was raised to LHvU.--BozMo talk 10:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

There is disagreement as to the acceptability of any threaded discussions in this section. Please see Template_talk:Climate_Sanction_enforcement_request before engaging in any threaded discussions.