Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:53, 13 September 2010

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Biography: Sports and Games This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance). An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Snooker Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Snooker, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of snooker on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SnookerWikipedia:WikiProject SnookerTemplate:WikiProject SnookerSnooker Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Australia: Sports Low‑importance Neil Robertson is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Australian sports (assessed as Low-importance). Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian at the National Library of Australia. The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Please stop making this mistake.

Robertson is NOT the first Australian to win the title. Horace Lindrum won it in 1952. Robertson is the first Australian to win it at the Crucible. Xowets (talk) 00:57, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

"Due to a disagreement with the Billiards Association and Control Council, Lindrum and McConachy were the only players to compete, with most professional players playing in the World Matchplay championship instead. As a result, Lindrum's title win is often ignored, with Cliff Thorburn (Can), Ken Doherty (Ire) and Neil Robertson (Aus) usually regarded as the only non-British World Champions." (from List of world snooker champions). This fact is well-sourced. Armbrust _Contribs 00:33, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Or you could keep it in and add/change the wording to. 1st offical Aussie world Champ, after Lindrum's unoffical win in 1952. Keeps everyone happy and the reader more informed. But i would like to see a source for the unoffical claim KnowIG 00:36, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

What you referenced there doesn't even prove your point. 'Often ignored' and 'not officially recognised' are not the same thing at all. Therefore, whether you like it or not, Horace Lindrum IS the official World Professional Snooker Champion for 1952. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.195.128.84 (talk) 00:38, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I've appended "in the modern era". While Horace Lindrum's win is often discounted it is factually incorrect to state Robertson is the first Australian ever to win it. Similarly with Hendry, he is often regarded as holding the record for championship wins but in actual fact Joe davis, but most snooker commentators only tend to go by the records of the modern era these days. Betty Logan (talk) 00:43, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

The reference says first Australian world champion, don't remove references, and sections without explanation. Armbrust _Contribs 00:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't abide by Betty Logan's logic (about the commentators only mentioning the modern game) because all tournament they've been talking about how close Eddie Charlton was to winning it, and his chances came before the 'modern' era of the Embassy sponsorship and the Crucible.195.195.128.84 (talk) 00:46, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Two of Eddie Charton's finals came in the modern era. Betty Logan (talk) 00:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Ignore that, I wrote it thinking you were agreeing with Armbrust.195.195.128.84 (talk) 00:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Overseas

This still seems to be confusing some people. When the BBC refer to "overseas" players, they mean outside of the UK. Ireland is split into two parts - Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the UK while the Republic is not, and the players from the Republic are classed as "overseas" players in the BBC terminology. In that sense Ken Doherty from the Republic is classed as an "overseas" while Alex Higgins and Dennis Taylor are not, despite then having to cross the same sea to compete.

In the modern game since 1969 (when the knock-out format was introduced and all pros were eligible to enter) there have been three overseas winners i.e. three non-UK champions: Thorburn, Doherty and now Robertson. Since Snooker is considered a British and Irish game, sometimes when referring to international winners "international" usually refers to players outside of the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

When pundits and journalists refer to Robertson as the third overseas/foreigner/international player they mean non-UK, and if they refer to him as the second overseas/foreigner/international player they are obviously excluding Ireland from that category. It's important to be clear on this and perhaps avoid confusing terminology.

Resricting the context to the modern game avoids the Horace Lindrum issue. In regards to this, while the WPBSA generally ignores his win it is important to note that this is a point of view and the fact remains he did win it - much of the Australian press for instance are reporting that Robertson is the second Australian to win it. It is not our place to adopt a stance on this issue, but to clearly report the facts as they are: Lindrum won it, but due to a dispute between the players and the governing body an alternative tournament was established and Lindrum's win is often disregarded by other professionals. Betty Logan (talk) 16:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC) Whatever the Australian media may say, snooker players here in Australia are quite content with the "modern era" qualifier that excludes Horace Lindrum. Anyone who knows anything about the game here has a lot of respect for Lindrum as a player, but knows that his world title was almost embarrassingly trivial under the circumstances. 138.217.153.239 (talk) 11:36, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Nicknames

While Armbrust has provided a citation to the use of "Melbourne Machine" and "Aussie Ace" , these are not nickname but merely ephermeral titles invented either by a journalist or by an online website looking business. "The Thunder from Down Under" is Robertason's widely known nickname and the only one for this article. bigpad (talk) 09:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

The Melbourne Machine is certainly a nickname - one of the previous MCs used to introduce him using it. I have a World Snooker reference so I will add that in. Betty Logan (talk) 11:12, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Can I say the latest source for "Aussie Ace" doesn't cut it as well. It simply uses the phrase as a description not as a reference to their nickname. We might as well say Ronnie O'Sullivan's nickname is "Controversial Snooker Player". Not to mention the possible unreliable source as a bookmaker. Christopher Connor (talk) 11:45, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

There are many sources for this nickname: World Snooker, Daily Record, This Is Bristol, The Star, Highland News, Entrepreneur (magazine) and Daily Record (again). Armbrust _Contribs 12:06, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

"Aussie ace" is the same as saying "Southampton star" or "Belfast battler!" It is *not a nickname - the "a" in "ace" is lowercase, for a start, in all the articles you cited. "Melbourne Machine" is ok, as it's a genuine citation, if only one World Snooker. Armbrust - please don't be re-inserting Aussie Ace. Nicknames is a big weakness in Misplaced Pages, unfortunately. bigpad (talk) 19:53, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

• Biography articles of living people
• All unassessed articles
• Start-Class biography articles
• Start-Class biography (sports and games) articles
• Low-importance biography (sports and games) articles
• Sports and games work group articles
• Misplaced Pages requested photographs of sportspeople
• Misplaced Pages requested photographs of people
• WikiProject Biography articles
• Start-Class Snooker articles
• Mid-importance Snooker articles
• All cue sports pages including snooker
• All snooker pages
• Start-Class Australia articles
• Low-importance Australia articles
• Start-Class Australian sports articles
• Low-importance Australian sports articles
• WikiProject Australian sports articles
• WikiProject Australia articles