Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 05:38, 23 February 2006

In order to remain listed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute with a single user, not different disputes or multiple users. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: {insert UTC timestamp with ~~~~~}), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 05:36, 28 December 2024 (UTC).

• (Happyjoe | talk | contributions)

Users should only edit one summary or view, other than to endorse.

Statement of the dispute

This is a summary written by users who dispute this user's conduct. Users signing other sections ("Response" or "Outside views") should not edit the "Statement of the dispute" section.

Description

This user has been waging a campaign to insert this unsourced POV edit into the Big Spring, Texas article since December of 2005 under various IPs, including User:65.122.236.133, User:65.122.232.3, User:209.181.19.117, User:212.142.140.149, user:129.72.69.170 and user names User:Ohnoitsjayme (banned) User:Ohnoitsjaime (banned), User:Ohnoitsjamee (banned), User:Happyjoe (Registered usernames were created after semi-protection and bans for improper usernames). Multiple users have made multiple good faith attempts to discuss the NPOV problems with the passage, but no good faith efforts have been made by the user to insert verifiable and neutral statements. Three 3RRs have been filed and the page has been semi-protected twice. Additionally, the user has placed an incorrect dispute tag on all versions where the POV material is not present. OhNoitsJamie 22:49, 22 February 2006 (UTC) Since the RfC has been filed, User:Happyjoe has also engaged in removal of information from the RfC page. pschemp | talk 03:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Evidence of disputed behavior

(Provide diffs. Links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)

1. Deceptive edit summaries
2. User impersonation/personal attacks
3. Sockpuppetry
4. Sockpuppetry
5. Sockpuppetry
6. Sockpuppetry
7. Sockpuppetry
8. Sockpuppetry
9. Sockpuppetry
10. Sockpuppetry
11. Addition of NPOV material/Deceptive edit summary
12. Inappropriate {dispute} tag placement
13. Removal of evidence from RfC

Applicable policies

{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}

1. Sockpuppetry
2. 3RR
3. NPOV
4. Civility
5. Personal attacks

Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute

(provide diffs and links)

1. Talk page
2. Example on article talk
3. Example on article talk
4. Example on article talk
5. Example on article talk
6. Request on user talk
7. Request on user talk
8. Request on user talk
9. Request on user talk
10. Request on user talk

Users certifying the basis for this dispute

{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}

1. OhNoitsJamie 22:49, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
2. pschemp | talk 23:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
3. Applejuicefool 04:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Other users who endorse this summary

(sign with ~~~~)

1. Joe I 01:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
2. ~ ApolloCreed 02:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
3. Kuru 03:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Response

I am disputing the following description for these reasons

• Use of the phrase "waging a campaign". The use of this particular phrase implies an ill will and is not a neutral statement.
• Use of the phrase "unsourced POV edit". This is a value laden statment that inherently disparages the edit in question.
• Multiple good faith efforts have in fact been made to resolve this issues... however the only resolution that seems to be acceptable to Ohnoitsjamie is to completely remove the edits in question. And he has demonstrated an unwillingness to reach a compromise.
• The dispute tag was correctly placed to dispute the absence of relevant and factual information
• Disputed information and irrelevant POV material was removed from the RFC page... much the same as others have removed information from my edits.

I am specifically disputing the following "Description"

This user has been waging a campaign to insert this unsourced POV edit into the Big Spring, Texas article since December of 2005 under various IPs, including User:65.122.236.133, User:65.122.232.3, User:209.181.19.117, User:212.142.140.149, user:129.72.69.170 and user names User:Ohnoitsjayme (banned) User:Ohnoitsjaime (banned), User:Ohnoitsjamee (banned), User:Happyjoe (Registered usernames were created after semi-protection and bans for improper usernames). Multiple users have made multiple good faith attempts to discuss the NPOV problems with the passage, but no good faith efforts have been made by the user to insert verifiable and neutral statements. Three 3RRs have been filed and the page has been semi-protected twice. Additionally, the user has placed an incorrect dispute tag on all versions where the POV material is not present. OhNoitsJamieTalk 22:49, 22 February 2006 (UTC) Since the RfC has been filed, User:Happyjoe has also engaged in removal of information from the RfC page. pschemp | talk 03:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Other users who endorse this summary

I wish to add my name to those who endorse the summary but have been prevented from doing so above.

(sign with ~~~~)

1. Happyjoe 05:03, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I am also disputing the following inapplicable policies "Applicable policies

{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}

1. Sockpuppetry
2. 3RR
3. NPOV
4. Civility
5. Personal attacks

I wish to add myself to the list of those who sincerely tried and failed to resolve the dispute.=== Users certifying the basis for this dispute

{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}

1. OhNoitsJamie 22:49, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
2. pschemp | talk 23:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

The statments above are obviously biased as a part of a personal vendetta launched by ohnoitsjamie and others against a balanced article on the

City of Big Spring Texas

It is a shame that it has come down to such extreme and unwarranted actions being taken on an issue that could have easily been resovled with some attempt at compromise. But rather than compromise, the only solution offered was the blanket removal of all information. In other words everything that Ohnoitsjamie and other post is (by defintion non-POV and acceptable) and everything that other users post that is true but perhaps distasteful is automatically labeled as POV and removed (and the mere act of labelling is considered sufficient evidence to remove).

Niños que trabajaron como criados y niños que se encuentran trabajando actualmente como criados domésticos describieron un frecuente abuso físico y verbal, negación de educación y de comida adecuada y de protección de la salud, y acoso sexual por parte de los empleadores o de sus parientes. Algunos de los criados manifestaron que los empleadores los forzaban a trabajar contra su voluntad golpeándolos, encerrándolos, o negándose a pagarle a aquellos que querían renunciar.

Again, this non-issue could have been resolved long ago is there had been a willingness to compromise, a willingness to build an article that presents Big Spring with all its wonders and warts rather than the whitewash hack job that has been perpetrated.

Joe, I have no desire to whitewash the Big Spring article. What I object to is 1) Use of personal opinion in the article and 2) the extremely vitriolic POV that you seem to have about Big Spring. Please understand, in this case it doesn't matter whether your comments are factual because their tone makes the content irrelevant! Additionally, I have offered time and again to compromise. I welcome a section of the article dealing with Big Spring's "warts," as you call them, but I want it to use neutral language and to be verifiable. Applejuicefool 05:11, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Applejuice thank you for your polite discussion of this issue. However, I don't see the compromise, since the only compromise was for me to remove all of my edits. Compromise involves meeting in the middle.Happyjoe 05:35, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The compromise I'm offering is this: For the most part, I don't mind keeping much of the CONTENT of what you say, as long as it is stated factually and not as opinion, as long as you change the tone of your comments to a more neutral tone, and as long as the content we're including can be verified in a secondary source. Applejuicefool 05:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

And further, it has even deteriorated to the point at which ohnoitsjamie is now making personal accusations against me within the community, accusations which are unfounded and unjustified.

So I certainly hope that this issue can be resolved, but from what I have seen so far, I have serious doubts over the willingness of certain individuals to entertain the idea of compromise, to work together to find mutually agreeable solutions, to meet in the middle.

Further I might add, that as a fairly new user of Wikipedi a and as someone who is a housebound retiree in Big Spring, and as someone who is not a "techie", I am not familiar with all the various detailed policies of Misplaced Pages (which appear to be numerous and complex). Therefore any "violation" of Misplaced Pages rules and/or etiquette is unintentional. I simply am trying to express information about my hometown that I believe is suppressed by those in positions of power and authority (news media, city government, chamber of commerce, school teachers, police, etc). I believe that the best way to fix the city of Big Spring, Texas is to first admit the problems.

I will point out one example...

the dental hygiene issue. Now I don't know where one would find a government report that details the lack of dental health in Big Spring... and knowing how Texas govt works, the report would be suppressed if there was one. But ask any dentist in Big Spring... and I mean ANY dentist, what the level of dental health is in Big Spring and they will tell you that it ranks at the bottom in the US, that a very large percentage of people in Big Spring have never seen a dentist and that the state of dental health is atrocious. This is true. Now this may not be obvious if you have never travelled anywhere else (it may seem normal for people to have brown teeth), but people who have been somewhere else are all too well aware of the poor situation of dental health in Big Spring.

But it seems that what I am being told is that if I look out the window and it is raining, I can't say that it is raining unless I find somewhere where someone has written down that it is raining. Well I say this, visit Big Spring... all you wealthy techie, scientist types who love Misplaced Pages so much and live in place like Boulder, CO or California... visit Big Spring just once and see if what I am saying isn't calling it exactly like it is. And I would even add that I have been quite restrained in my descriptions of Big Spring. I did not mention the drug problems, the gang problems, etc...

Nonetheless, the policy of Misplaced Pages is that information in the articles must be independently verifiable through a secondary source. You are a primary source, not a secondary source. This article is a perfect example of the reason for such a policy: You have one POV as a primary source, and I have another! You see a version of Big Spring that I, another resident of this wonderful town, do not see! I bet if we asked 100 Big Spring residents, we'd get 100 different opinions about the town. Since the purpose of Misplaced Pages is to be a neutral, unbiased encyclopedia, we must keep both our opinions out of the article and use information that we can point to in secondary sources - published research material. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I plan to visit the library and museum to find such secondary sources. If you want to include your own personal views here, I challenge you to write a book! Get it published by a reputable publishing organization, and then you can point to that book as a secondary source.Applejuicefool 05:21, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Applejuice, again I thank for your polite response, but I will have to respectfully disagree with you. If an encyclopedia only included information that is 100% agreed to... what a worthless information source that would be! Happyjoe 05:35, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

But, for whatever reason there are those who would prefer to whitewash the town, to write a description that is as dull as yesterday's dishwater.

So if I am guilt of attempting to tell the truth... then all I can say is GUILTY AS CHARGED. If I am guilty of caring about my town and wanting things to improve, then so be it. My grandfather always taught me to speak truth to power, regardless of the consequences. I learned to stand up for what I believe is right and in fact I have defended the freedom of this country. Yet here, I have suffered personal attacks, threats, and unwarranted accusations as a result of my truthtelling, but everytime I see the young people of Big Spring, I stop and remember what is at stake and why I must tell the truth regardless of the consequences. It is a sad day in America when telling the truth is no longer allowed. It is a sad day in American when a whitewash is considered "truth". I tell the truth for the children, for my country, for my God, for my family. I tell the truth to defend what is right. I tell the truth in order to make this world a better place for all.

In conclusion

I do not have any animosity towards those who have attempted to squelch the truth. I feel sorry for them, that they are so brainwashed.

I would like to see some sort of compromise to this issue.

But all I have seen is a desire to completely remove my comments. Everything I posted is automatically labeled and deleted. I feel like I am facing the judge, the jury and hangman all in one person. No matter how I try to rework things, they get deleted. Yet other people can post things from Hell to Breakfast and their stuff never gets removed. Why is that? Why are my posts removed over and over? Why are other able to post with impunity, with out regard for truth. And let us not forget that perhaps the worst lies are lies of omission. And that is what we have here, a case of lying by omission. I say put all the information in the article and let the reader come to their own conclusion. But there are those who don't want that, who instead want to sanitize the article, who want it to read like a Chamber of Commerce travel brochure. Well I tell you what, this town is a beautiful place and it deserves more than a sanitized travel brochure article. Big Spring should be represented in all its sublime beauty.... the wonderful and warts, the proud and the shameful. For that is what makes a town real, gives it living substance as opposed to some Disneyland take of plastic facades and fake smiles. For when you come to Big Spring you won't see fake smiles. People in Big Spring mean it when they smile, they mean when they shake your hand. And we need a Misplaced Pages article that represents the honesty, the integrity of Big Spring people, that represents in all their human beauty.

Imagine for a moment that I am saying that the information you have posted is false. Big Spring is the best place to live in Texas. Everyone is in perfect health. There is no crime, no teen pregnancy. The schools and drinking water are the best in the state. In short, Big Spring is a model rural town, the perfect place to live, and people would be crazy not to move here immediately. Now, my point is: Which version should we use? If I claim one version is correct, and you back another version, how can we objectively decide which of us is correct? Maybe, consult a book about the issues? You say you want to present "the wonderful and the warts, the proud and the shameful." It seems to me that your article is all about the shameful, Joe. Sure, you do mention that the people are friendly and there is good barbecue. There is FAR more good to Big Spring than friendly people and barbecue. To say that your article was balanced is laughable. Applejuicefool 05:38, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

For what is a town?

A town is so much more than bland demographic stats, it is more than geographical details. A town is a human work of art, a work of art that has been shaped by thousands of people over many generations. It is a work of art that is always in progress. Buildings come and go, fashions change, children are born grow old and die... but the town remains. The town is evidence of our longings, our values, our aspirations. The town is the home we create for our community. To represent it with banal language is a travesty. The town should be represented unapologetically, with bold language, language that honors the people who have made the town what it is. A town is always in a state of flux and has inherent points of conflict. It is where rich and poor struggle. It is where ideologies strive for supremacy. The town is America. It embodies all that we are. Big Spring I salute you!

Happyjoe 02:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I also dispute the following links:

This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please help to ensure that disputed statements are reliably sourced. (Learn how and when to remove this message)

(Provide diffs. Links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)

1. Deceptive edit summaries
2. User impersonation/personal attacks
3. Sockpuppetry
4. Sockpuppetry
5. Sockpuppetry
6. Sockpuppetry
7. Sockpuppetry
8. Sockpuppetry
9. Sockpuppetry
10. Sockpuppetry
11. Addition of NPOV material/Deceptive edit summary
12. Inappropriate {dispute} tag placement
13. Removal of evidence from RfC

Outside view

This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute. Users editing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Response") should not edit the "Outside Views" section, except to endorse an outside view.

{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

Discussion

All signed comments and talk not related to an endorsement should be directed to this page's discussion page. Discussion should not be added below. Discussion should be posted on the talk page. Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page.