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User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 1 (27 December 2005 - 29 July 2006) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 2 (29 August 2006 - 5 November 2006) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 3 (8 November 2006 - 18 March 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 4 (22 March 2007 - 9 June 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 5 (11 June 2007 - 4 December 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 6 (21 January 2008 - 29 July 2009) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 7 (29 July 2009 - 25 August 2010)

Deleting sourced information

Hello. Here you removed the sourced information. What's wrong? --Quantum666 (talk) 18:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

overwelmed

How do you do it? IPs and stuff, you are outnumbered like 10 to 1. BTW, can you request a check with kheo17 and Garapapag. Garapapag had only two or three edits made 3 years ago..., and come recently to make the same reverts as kheo17. This more that shows that it is an alternative account of someone. Magotteers (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I have been editing for almost five years now but patience comes in handy :) I would say that the edit wars are relatively useless as well, so try not to get entangled in them. But since you've already been reported for it, I would suggest you check out the helpful links that'll help you defend yourself. Also, thanks for pointing out the appearance of the new user; it does seem somewhat suspicious and I'll file a report soon.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

New section

Hello. Why did you remove Azeri name from Khanate of Erevan? --Quantum666 (talk) 13:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the khanate of Erevan page: you can read its talk page for the full debate but to put it briefly, it's an anachronism. There was no Azerbaijani state in that part of the region until 1918 and none of the Turkic groups living there at the time would have referred to themselves as "Azerbaijani".--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Whatever you call those people they lived there, there language was Azeri and their nationality was Azerbaijani (Another example of usage of such "anachronism" is "genocide" which is used to describe the events happened before the word was created. Shouldn't we use it then?) --Quantum666 (talk) 08:23, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

You're painting the Muslims who lived in that region with a thick brushstroke. Many of them would later go on to call themselves Azerbaijanis; but there were also other ethnic Turkic groups living in the Khanate, many of whom would probably would object to being called Azerbaijani if they were here today. As for the inappropriate analogy regarding the Armenian Genocide - please go read the article itself and that of Raphael Lemkin, who specifically invented that word after learning about the genocide. This is perhaps one of the weakest arguments used by Armenian Genocide denialists today and I'm quite saddened that you bothered to even bring it up. --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:08, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

But the fact is the fact: Erevan khanate was inhabited by Azeris that time (as well as by Kurds, Persians and other people). So all those people have right to mention their name for the khanate in the article. --Quantum666 (talk) 20:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

SPI

Hi. We need some more info on the SPI case you opened before we can continue the investigation. If you could go there and respond to the requests, that'd be great. Thanks. — HelloAnnyong 19:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

See my comment here. Magotteers (talk) 07:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

How do you find my evidence poiting that Kheo17 is Neftchi? Magotteers (talk) 18:59, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Quite convincing. I'm surprised I didn't see that earlier.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

New section

Hello. Here you reverted my edit. Could you please explain the reason? What is the relation between some "Muslim tradition" invented by you and the described events? Why do you present Walker's and Hovannisian's opinions as facts but not as their opinion? Why do you insert primary sources instead of using secondary ones? --Quantum666 (talk) 20:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Islamic tradition, if a city resisted a siege, it gave itself up to a full-scale (typically 3 day-long) sack. The fact that the residents of Baku resisted the siege thus made it fully liable for pillaging (which is why it is included; other examples include the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 and or the city of Ani in 1064). This fact is relevant since multiple authors make mention of its importance and that this was the reason the Ottoman army did not formally enter the city until several days later.

Walker and Hovannisian, based on my reading, both believe that about 10,000 Armenians died. They simply make mention of the fact that higher figures have also been brought up - rather than check the material out yourself, you've automatically misinterpreted the citations that have been used to back up assertions which are never made.

As for the primary source: there is no rule on Misplaced Pages barring the use of such sources. The context is fully provided, as the reader understands what he is reading is a contemporary eyewitness account, and a significant one at that.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 21:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

There is only one source (Walker) claiming relation between "the tradition" and the events. This is not enough to present his opinion as a fact. It must be rewritten. I requested quotation from Walker.

But you wrote "Estimates of the dead range from 10,000 to 30,000 Armenians." This is not equal to "They simply make mention of the fact that higher figures have also been brought up". Your wording misinterprets the source and merely violates WP:NPOV and WP:DUE as most of the sources say about 10 000 but not about "from 10000 to 30000".

Yes we can use primary sources but very carefully and you cannot write claims (especially such controversial) based only on primary sources. You must provide secondary neutral RS confirming what is written in primary source. --Quantum666 (talk) 09:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

It looks like major portions of the book have been copy-pasted from Walker's book (which can be read here), so I've adjusted it accordingly, But while his statements do not directly reflect it, it looks likes that line has to be attributed to Hovannisian, who writes "Halil, Nuri, and Mursel withheld the entry of regular Ottoman units into Baku so that the age-old Islamic custom of looting and pillaging defiant cities might be observed." (Armenia on the Road to Independence, p. 227.)

I'm not misinterpreting anything: the sources support what is written. Even Walker says that "Estimates for the number of Armenian dead are around 20,000; the figure may easily have been higher. In this way the government of Azerbaijan installed itself in Baku, backed by Ottoman Turkish forces."

And the quotation is also taken from Walker's book, who in turn cites "Jacques Kayaloff, The Fall of Baku (Bergenfield, N.J., 1976), p. 12". See page 261 for the full text from the previous link I posted above. There's your secondary source--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 02:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Then shouldn't we use phrases like "According to", "As stated by"? --Quantum666 (talk) 16:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Problems with an article

Sorry to post this here. You've recently done work on ], and mentioned a "discredited historian" & "denial" - no problem with your edit or anything like that. I've seen this problem elsewhere in the article. Do you feel some sections lack a neutral pov, and if so, how can this article be improved. Thanks.Ebanony (talk) 08:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Ghazanchetsots cupola.JPG

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Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ukrainian People's Militia (2nd nomination)

Out of your area, but would really appreciate your language skills and general regional nous. Please take a look. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		Thankyou for your varied assistance, troubleshooting and commitment to historical accuracy over the last few days. I am pleased to award you this barnstar.} Buckshot06 (talk) 09:11, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot buddy. Anytime :)--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 02:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Review of actions

Would you be able to please review my past few actions with regard to User:Turco85 and tell me what you think? I need some further views to help me decide how to proceed here. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Reply

Tuscumbia (talk) 20:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Opinion

Hi, Mareşal:) What do you think of Talk:Malibeyli and Gushchular Massacre, Talk:Garadaghly Massacre, Talk:Agdaban massacre ? Takabeg (talk) 03:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I suggest you gather other users' opinions who know the subject better than I. I'm always available to appeal to, but talk to users who you think have the interests of the encyclopedia at heart, but also know the subject. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 08:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Given that I actually made the deletions incorrectly out-of-process, and the community is still deciding What is to be done?, I don't feel I can take any more action in this area at the moment. I suggest you approach User:Nick-D, who is already somewhat aware of this issue, as he has alrady commented on the WP:AN thread. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 20:44, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Armeniapedia

Hi MarshallBaghramyan - there's a vote to delete the Armeniapedia.org article. Can you please add your thoughts? Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Armeniapedia.org Thanks! --RaffiKojian (talk) 21:45, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Marshall. No, I don't celebrate Novruz, although it has nothing to do with the New Year, at least in Azerbaijan. Happy New Year to you too! Tuscumbia (talk) 16:04, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

New section

Hello. Please do not remove quotation requests like you did in Armenian–Tatar massacres of 1905–1907. And why did you put npov tag in the article? --Quantum666 (talk) 09:35, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Drmbon

Hi

If you find time, please join Talk:Drmbon. I'd appreciate very much your opinion.

Best,-- Ashot  11:18, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Irreconcilables

Good idea-- see the new article Irreconcilables Rjensen (talk) 23:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Historical Armenian settlements

Hi Marshall

The issue you raised is very interesting to me (). Should you ever decide to pursue this, please let me know.

-- Ashot  08:55, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Areni-1 winery

Hey Marshall. Just read your new article Areni-1 winery. Pretty good and informative! Great job! Tuscumbia (talk) 21:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Much appreciated.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:23, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't you think it would be better to have all the various articles about the finds of the excavation in just the one article? Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 21:06, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

For the moment, I don't see that happening. The cave does really appear to be a treasure trove (for archaeologists at least :) ) but I think we'll just have to wait this one out and see what other goodies are excavated. Maybe then we can create an article called "Areni-1" and reserve sections for each unearthed artifact. But right now it looks like the world's oldest piece of leather footwear and the world's oldest surviving winery deserve their own separate articles.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:23, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

No problem!

No problem, the Anastas Mikoyan article you've written is very good. To be honest, I don't know, I haven't read Robert Service's book about Stalin yet. I've read History of Modern Russia: From Tsarism to the Twenty-first Century, another book written by Service if that helps. To be totally honest I don't know very much about the Stalin Era, I know much more about the history of the late Soviet Union, meaning the period from 1964 til it's demise. As seen by my work here on Misplaced Pages, I've worked extensively on such articles as Leonid Brezhnev, Alexei Kosygin and Andrei Gromyko. Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar is a great book, and yes, I think you should keep it. While you're right that it is a "mish-mash" of historical events, it covers most, if not all, of Stalin's Soviet Union history. You could in theory reference all major events in Stalin's USSR with this book, so yes, keep it. Bye --TIAYN (talk) 20:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Areni-1 winery

On 22 January 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Areni-1 winery, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Areni-1 winery is believed to be the world's oldest surviving wine production facility? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Twilight Chill

I too have observed and documented Twilight Chill's habit of subtly removing and suppressing information from articles, often without any discussion and most of the time through false and misleading edit summaries, mostly relating to Azerbaijan. Please monitor his activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjbronn (talk • contribs) 08:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

You are about to be topic-banned.

But you may make a statement in this AE thread first, if you wish.  Sandstein  22:18, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

report

Please see this report . Gorzaim (talk) 20:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement restriction: Armenia and Azerbaijan

In application and enforcement of WP:AA2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement, you are indefinitely restricted as follows: You may not make derogatory statements about sources or their authors on the sole basis of their nationality, place of birth or publication, ethnic group, religion or similar general characteristic that is unrelated to their reliability in terms of Misplaced Pages policy, in the context of the area of conflict of the arbitration case WP:AA2. This restriction is to be enforced by blocks or other discretionary sanctions. It is not to be construed so as to encourage any derogatory comments that it does not explicitly prohibit. The reason for this restriction is explained in this AE thread.  Sandstein  23:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I think all this is a given, but I will formulate my words in better fashion next time. Thanks.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)