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Revision as of 17:32, 19 April 2011 editJaakobou (talk | contribs)15,880 edits Undid revision 424875016 by Tarc (talk) + fixup what I find relevant.← Previous edit Revision as of 17:36, 19 April 2011 edit undoJaakobou (talk | contribs)15,880 edits →Request concerning TiamutNext edit →
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Refuses to accept anyone else's opinion on Talk page. Is editing against consensus. Refuses to accept anyone else's opinion on Talk page. Is editing against consensus.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : (in a minute) ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> <!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->




<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning Tiamut=== ===Discussion concerning Tiamut===


Revision as of 17:36, 19 April 2011

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    Uruandimi

    No action taken at the moment. T. Canens (talk) 16:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Uruandimi

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Sean.hoyland - talk 21:48, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Uruandimi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    This report concerns the behavior of Uruandimi (who I think is also Special:Contributions/212.64.94.231 when logged out) at Palestinian refugee. In a nutshell, Uruandimi appears to be an inexperienced editor who does not understand what is required of him with respect to article content edits and talk page use.

    Things have gone downhill from there. There were a number of other problematic content edits (e.g. here and here) but the main problem seems to be the non-stop soapboxing and refusal to get the point on the talk page.

    See

    It's concerning that it's also at nl:Overleg:Palestijns vluchtelingenprobleem too. Both Carwil and I have tried to be patient, explain policy (repeatedly), ignore the occasional assumption of bad faith and soapboxing but we aren't really getting anywhere.

    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

    The user has not been officially informed about the sanctions by an admin. Carwil and I have informed the user about the sanctions amongst other requirements on the article talk page (here) and at User talk:Uruandimi. It didn't help.

    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

    Official notification of the sanctions, some kind of warning, whatever it takes.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Response to Sandstein. I appreciate that the problem may be too much information but all I can say is that that's one of the main issues that needs to be addressed, Uruandimi filling the talk page up with his own partisan opinions. There isn't a content dispute because there are no sources, nothing, just Uruandimi trying to impose his personal views on Misplaced Pages. The links to subsections in the article are diffs in the sense that they represent the difference between when a subsection wasn't there and it's current state. Each subsection could be presented as actual diffs with dates and well-explained descriptions but the diffs would contain exactly the same information as the subsections. Each subsection could be further broken down into individual diffs representing each sentence written by Uruandimi in principal and I could provide a date and well-explained description for each one spelling out how it fails to comply with the policies and guidelines of the project. Many of those descriptions would be identical and they would form sets of descriptions that demonstrate a pattern. But what would be the point ? The pattern is far more obvious by simply reading what he has written on the talk page. It can be summarized as an inexperienced editor who doesn't understand what is required of him with respect to article content edits and talk page use in an article covered by the sanctions. I think the problem is obvious if you read what he writes, even from one subsection picked at random. It's possible that he has walked away but at the very least I think he needs official notification of the sanctions and some kind of gentle reminder from someone he might listen to that there are rules and they apply to him. It doesn't seem much to ask. Sean.hoyland - talk 21:57, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

    Response to EdJohnston, yes, Uruandimi is certainly being highly tendentious and is clearly trying to push his personal POV. I could post diffs of some problematic statements he's made e.g. referring to the term "Palestinian" as "an odious national identity." which he had the good sense to reword here although he chose to retain his description of the identity as a "discriminatory, utterly fraudulent denomination" which apparently he would like to "cleanse" from Misplaced Pages. Then there is this edit where he argues that we are commiting "history fraud and a hideous act of discrimination" by using the term Palestinian refugee in the same way reliable sources use the term. However, I'm not trying to get the guy into trouble for the things he has said or the unsourced content edits he's made. He is welcome to his opinions, I just think it would be better for the project if he stopped putting them on the talk page and making content edits based on them rather than reliable sources, read the policies/guidelines/sanctions and started to comply with them. I'm prepared to start removing his comments from the talk page if he continues this way but I would rather not. It's looking more like he's walked away so perhaps the issue has gone away and no action is necessary anyway...hard to tell. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:01, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Uruandimi

    Statement by Uruandimi

    The issue is about including the PLO Covenant, which calls for Israel's destruction, in a new section called "attitudes and policies of the Palestinian Arabs" on this page. By including the text of this government document, I would like to show that (1) the Palestinian Arab community officially nurtures a negative and hostile attitude towards Israel and the Jews; (2) that this attitude has been a matter of Palestinian Arab policy for a long time (the page on Yasser Arafat's predecessor Amin al-Husseini shows that this policy actually dates back to the '20's of last century); and (3) that this attitude and policy possibly caused such large numbers of Palestinian Arabs to become refugees in the first place.

    However, including the PLO Covenant would 'ruin' the current narrative on the Palestinian refugee page, whose authors seem to assume that Israel and the Jews initiated the expulsion or caused the flight of the Palestinian Arabs from their homes. Among other demands, Sean.hoyland and Carwil told me that for the PLO Covenant to apply to the Palestinian refugees, I must provide a reliable source stating that the Palestinian refugees are actually Palestinian Arabs. The sanction was announced just as I was about to suggest that the burden of proof is on them since in my opinion, the Palestinian refugees and the Palestinian Arabs are one and the same.

    If people want to continue to prevent a paragraph on the PLO attitudes and policies from being included on this page, they must quote a reliable source which says (1) that there is a difference between the Palestinian refugees and the Palestinian Arabs; (2) that the PLO Covenant does not apply to all the Palestinian Arabs; and (3) that the PLO was not recognized by the Arab League (1964) and 100 nations, the United Nations General Assembly (1974), the EU, Israel and the USA (1993) to solely represent all the Palestinian Arabs.

    With kind regards, --Uruandimi (talk) 01:39, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning Uruandimi

    I may comment more later, but for now I want to clarify one thing. Uruandimi alleges on this page, "Sean.hoyland and Carwil told me that for the PLO Covenant to apply to the Palestinian refugees, I must provide a reliable source stating that the Palestinian refugees are actually Palestinian Arabs." Sean and my comments are on the record at Talk:Palestinian refugees, but this understanding of our request lacks any basis I can remember. I did say, "If you want to discuss the political views of Palestinian refugees, most of whom cannot take part in PA elections, look for research on the topic, and don't quote documents written decades ago." This was one of many requests for reliable sources relating Palestinian refugees to the material that Uruandimi has posted from the PLO Covenant and Hamas documents. Neither Sean nor I have objected to Palestinian refugees being Palestinians or Palestinian Arabs (the term Uruandimi prefers). Instead, we have insisted that a chain of connection—Palestinian refugees to Palestinians to PLO/Hamas to PLO Charter/Hamas Covenant—is not sufficient to place contentious discussion of the Charter/Covenant on the Palestinian refugees page. At least not without reliable sources connecting Palestinian refugees to the Charter/Covenant.--Carwil (talk) 08:04, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

    I apologize for engaging here in some of the content dispute; my intent was instead to clarify something which I allegedly said (according to Uruandimi), but did not.
    More importantly, I'm interested in being able to work with Uruandimi on the basis of shared adherence to Misplaced Pages policies, the avoidance of polemics and POV-pushing, the inclusion of material on each page that is strictly relevant to the topic at hand, and consistent reliance on reliable sources.
    Sean and I have both tried to indicate these needs to Uruandimi, and have at various times tried to provide examples of what such behavior looks like. While we can continue to try, there is a sense that WP policies and practices are being willfully ignored or that our advice doesn't carry weight. For that reason, I think both an arbitration-related notification (to emphasize the seriousness of avoiding tendentious and repetitions editing) and further involvement from other editors (to clarify the meaning of WP policies for the page under discussion in particular) would be useful.
    While I might have waited longer before bringing this material here to AE, I was strongly motivated to share the arbitration notice, and only did not because I learned it must be shared by an uninvolved administator.--Carwil (talk) 16:17, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

    Result concerning Uruandimi

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    There is only one actual diff in the evidence section, and I do not see how it reflects more than a content dispute, which AE does not decide. The links to whole discussions are not helpful; evidence should be submitted in the form of dated and well-explained diffs. Without objection, I intend to close this report as not warranting a warning.  Sandstein  19:45, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

    I find that Uruandimi's comment above seems to go against WP:BURDEN: "If people want to continue to prevent a paragraph on the PLO attitudes and policies from being included on this page, they must quote a reliable source which says (1) that there is a difference between the Palestinian refugees and the Palestinian Arabs;..." Should he modify his statements here in the AE to make clear that he understands our policy and will agree to follow it, I could imagine this report might be closed with no warning under ARBPIA. Sean.hoyland seems to be arguing that Uruandimi's argument at Talk:Palestinian refugee is ipso facto tendentious, and this is a plausible claim. It seems like Uruandimi wants to employ Palestinian refugee as a coatrack for things that could be treated in other articles. Uruandimi has attempted to insert his preferred material into the article seven times since April 5. Since there is no consensus yet to support these changes, this is starting to look like edit warring. EdJohnston (talk) 23:00, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

    Closing as no action taken at the moment, since the editor reported has not been editing since April 10. If the situation recurs, feel free to re-report. T. Canens (talk) 16:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

    Tiamut

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Tiamut

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    User:Jaakobou on behalf of good order, despite not being involved/aware of the situation.
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Tiamut (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    discretionary sanctions, more strictly, Further remedies
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Revert
    2. Revert
    3. Revert


    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

    All Israel-Arab related articles are under WP:1RR, as noted in the further remedies. Both Tiamut and RolandR are experienced editors with a knowledge of the arbitration and its remedies.

    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

    A) A slap on the wrist sanction against Tiamut, and b) A review of possible tag team mentality and consideration to impose a "tag-team" warning and/or ban on the people involved in the recent edit-warring.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Refuses to accept anyone else's opinion on Talk page. Is editing against consensus.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    Diff


    Discussion concerning Tiamut

    Statement by Tiamut

    Comments by others about the request concerning Tiamut

    Result concerning Tiamut

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.